Are we the baddies? Assassin's Creed Valhalla.

jman1954goat · Jul 12, 2020

so I just caught up on the new trailer and it feels tonally weird .I'm not that familiar with viking lore but i always associated them with invaders but the Ubisoft guy was like real vikings where farmers so im like ok we are about to get a nuanced story about vikings that show they where not all that bad. Smash cut to attacking villages seemingly unprovoked and slaughtering everyone razing and burning the village to the ground (this is the starting arc to a billion rpg's but usually the protag is the villager whos home is destroyed not the other way around)

After this you create a new home in territory thats not yours and continue to invade a country. The trailer felt major Heel energy if you told me you where introducing a new games villain i would believe you.

Am i the crazy one what am i missing are these vikings really just misunderstood?

Edit: edited out a line about Vikings bieng "evil" super wrong to label an entire culture like that and I'm sorry to any viking descendent's.

CenturionNami · Jul 12, 2020

Watch/read Vinland Saga if you want to see the Danish Raiders (Vikings) being portrayed as the blood thirsty pirates they were, instead of the bullshit this and Vikings is peddling.

SheriffMcDuck · Jul 12, 2020

I don't think Vikings are that misunderstood. They left Norway due to over-crowding/lack of fertile lands to find England with trading and easy plunder. So plunder they did.

Siggy-P · Jul 12, 2020

They seem to have mistaken the recent revelations that they weren't as super rapey as previously thought as to mean they were actually super good guys.

Ofcourse given how they represented Spartans and Athenians, expect not a sliver of accuracy or nuance when it comes to the reality of how either Vikings or Saxons behaved.

ASilentProtagonist · Jul 12, 2020

They are literally pirates

Morrigan · Jul 12, 2020

I suspect they will be heavily sanitized, much like the Spartans (and Athenians too tbh) were in AC: Odyssey. Don't expect too much historical accuracy from power fantasy fluff games.

Fat4all · Jul 12, 2020

Siggy-P said:
They seem to have mistaken the discovery that they weren't as super rapey as previously thought as to mean they were good guys.

Diet Vikings, now with 67% less rape

est1992 · Jul 12, 2020

Yeah I always thought Vikings were supposed to be bad guys too, but you can't make a game based around them if they're pieces of shit though.

ThePrince · Jul 12, 2020

Assassin's Creed games are generally so historically inaccurate that you might as well consider them to be fantasy. But yes, the Vikings were not very nice. I'm assuming they'll either ignore this issue entirely or come up with a way to try and paint the main character as a 'good' Viking.

pjl93 · Jul 12, 2020

It's all a matter of perspective.... but yeah

Dennis8K · Jul 12, 2020

Hey those are my ancestors you are talking about.

Buckle · Jul 12, 2020

Morrigan said:
I suspect they will be heavily sanitized, much like the Spartans (and Athenians too tbh) were in AC: Odyssey. Don't expect too much historical accuracy from power fantasy fluff games.

Oh come on.

Spartans and Vikings weren't that bad. They were puckish rogues living a life of mirth and whimsy.

SinkFla · Jul 12, 2020

Fat4all said:
Diet Vikings, now with 67% less rape

Lmao. Hey it's like they say to struggling writers: "Write what you know".

And yeah that intro about Vikings had me eye rolling

Fat4all · Jul 12, 2020

in AC3 you could assassinate cats and dogs, so there's another game where you play as the villain

TheXbox · Jul 12, 2020

I don't know anything about the real vikings but I suspect that Scandinavian society of the middle ages was probably more complex than the once-popular image of horned-helmeted barbarians. If Ubi's intention is to rehabilitate them, however, I don't think their presentation is doing the vikings any favors.

Morrigan said:
I suspect they will be heavily sanitized, much like the Spartans (and Athenians too tbh) were in AC: Odyssey. Don't expect too much historical accuracy from power fantasy fluff games.

I'm not sure if this is the most sanitized version of history in AC or just the one I'm most familiar with, but yeah, this stuff is completely glossed over in Odyssey. I'd expect the same treatment of the vikings and the Anglo-Saxons in Valhalla.

skeezx · Jul 12, 2020

touchy as it gets into some nasty historic parallels but everything was conquer/pillage/fuck/take away back then ... vikings just have their peculiar stamp on that

Fat4all · Jul 12, 2020

Buckle said:
They were puckish rogues living a life of mirth and whimsy.

and they all were voiced by John Cusack

-Tetsuo- · Jul 12, 2020

I mean we already had an AC about pirates

Kaah · Jul 12, 2020

Uh, Vikings aren't the "villains" you think they are.
They kicked a lot of ass in England and other countries, but they were not worse than any other civilization at that time, including people from England. Invasion, raiding, war and all that stuff was pretty much standard, it wasn't a "viking thing".

RestEerie · Jul 12, 2020

jman1954goat said:
evil invaders

some may disagree with me and taking aside the game's potrayal of vikings, i don't think it's good to see history, historical groups & actors and events in such binary terms like 'evil invaders', 'good guys', etc. Contextual perspective is needed when viewing history from a modern lens.

For example, you might think that the allies during WW2 are the 'good guys' but on further reading, they are not the 'defenders of freedom & justice against the evil Axis Powers'. real life historical events are not like The Battle at pelennor fields in LOTR with the 'baddest of the bads' on one side and the 'goodest of the good' on the other.

Artdayne · Jul 12, 2020

This is history in Europe. Romans conquered parts of Britain, then Anglo Saxons came and conquered Britain, then Danes conquered Britain. Danes were not especially cruel compared to other armies in Europe.

Vyse · Jul 12, 2020

Vikings were peaceful farmers who peacefully slaughtered everyone and took their lands.

Vic20 · Jul 12, 2020

"Vikings were peaceful settlers" cut to peaceful settlers burning down huts, yeah the tone was weird.

jman1954goat · Jul 12, 2020

est1992 said:
Yeah I always thought Vikings were supposed to be bad guys too, but you can't make a game based around them if they're pieces of shit though.

red dead 2 did a good job of letting you play as bad guys but still not feel terrible the whole time. the difference is red dead didn't tell me the Dutch gang was good people to me with a straight face

Fat4all · Jul 12, 2020

-Tetsuo- said:
I mean we already had an AC about pirates

those Spanish traders deserved it

they were maybe possibly Templar's

and they got 100 metal I need

SolidSnakeBoy · Jul 12, 2020

I wish Ubisoft would actually do something interesting with the settings of their games. Instead they all devolve into a tour of ancient wonders,locations, weapons. All sanitized to be "the bad guys, who usually slighted me personally". Their games are just not a place to find deep takes on historical nuance. It is a shame though.

JusDoIt · Jul 12, 2020

Northern Europeans were treated as uncivilized barbarians by the Roman Empire, and this continued into the Middle Ages when the Anglo-Saxons created monarchies in the power vacuum left behind by the Romans.

They were definitely raiders and bandits, but they kind of had to be to survive. Their home region was harsh and often barren and any attempt to migrate to places where they could prosper was met with aggression by more powerful forces.

Niosai · Jul 12, 2020

Once I saw an enemy wielding lightning in the trailer, I stopped being concerned with historical accuracy in this game. That being said, I do hope there's some kind of recognition of the Vikings' reputation.

Crossing Eden · Jul 12, 2020

-Tetsuo- said:
I mean we already had an AC about pirates

Yep.

jman1954goat said:
red dead 2 did a good job of letting you play as bad guys but still not feel terrible the whole time. the difference is red dead didn't tell me the Dutch gang was good people to me with a straight face

If there was a drinking game centered around the amount of time Arthur, aka the second in command, was told "You're a good man," what would be the final score? RDR2 is entirely about portraying at least some portion of the gang as "good people" instead of outright villains. With a character like Micah being so cartoonishly evil that he sticks out.

CrichtonKicks · Jul 12, 2020

Going off of the 30 minute gameplay segment it looks like your clan (or whatever it's called) is allied with "good" English leadership and is working with them to free England from oppressors (a rival Viking clan was shown as the enemy in that part of the segment).

So I suspect it won't be "all Vikings" were good and instead be "this particular group happened to be good".

jman1954goat · Jul 12, 2020

RestEerie said:
some may disagree with me and taking aside the game's potrayal of vikings, i don't think it's good to see history, historical groups & actors and events in such binary terms like 'evil invaders', 'good guys', etc. Contextual perspective is needed when viewing history from a modern lens.

I am saying the classic depiction of vikings are as evil. i was hoping this game would have have nuance and balance to the story but Ubisoft seems to have swung hard into the other direction saying they were good? just peaceful farmers looking for new land!

Salty Rice · Jul 12, 2020

They saying they want to show the "real not so bad vikings" while ignoring the terrible things they did had me ooff during it with the sexual harrasment allegations in mind considering what Vikings did.

jman1954goat · Jul 12, 2020

Crossing Eden said:
Yep.

If there was a drinking game centered around the amount of time Arthur, aka the second in command, was told "You're a good man," what would be the final score? RDR2 is entirely about portraying at least some portion of the gang as "good people" instead of outright villains. With a character like Micah being so cartoonishly evil that he sticks out.

True but it becomes very clear in the later half that the Good man stuff was bullshit the gang told themselves.

Z-Beat · Jul 12, 2020

We were LITERAL pirates in Black Flag.

Cosmic Voyager · Jul 12, 2020

The thing that people often get tripped up about is that while Assassins are our protagonists in these games, the ideological differences between Assassins and Templars are supposed to be morally grey.

It's more about freedom vs. control than it is about good vs. evil.

In Black Flag we played as a pirate and in Syndicate we played as a gangster. There were plenty of people in those groups who were awful people IRL, but they align with more closely with ideals of personal liberty, and therefore they align with the Assassin faction of this universe.

So yeah from game to game we will play as people with more noble professions (e.g. Medjay), people with more neutral/morally gray professions (e.g. mercenaries) and people with more nefarious professions (e.g. pirates, gangsters, and vikings). It's all about looking at the given time period and society and trying to figure out which factions from that era would be aligned along the divide of freedom vs. control, regardless of whether they're "heroic" people or not

Crossing Eden · Jul 12, 2020

jman1954goat said:
I am saying the classic depiction of vikings are as evil. i was hoping this game would have have nuance and balance to the story but Ubisoft seems to have swung hard into the other direction saying they were good? just peaceful farmers looking for new land!

The boss in the demo was a viking from another group and the entire questline centered around you aiding an English king right down to attending his wedding with a viking. I don't think the game will be as black and white as you're assuming.

jman1954goat said:
True but it becomes very clear in the later half that the Good man stuff was bullshit the gamg told themselves.

It's 100% always directed at Arthur specifically and his entire redemption was around saving John and his family while making a conscious decision to abandon Dutch. This is after he insists on opposing Dutch's plan to use the Natives in the area as a distraction. Arthur in general is portrayed as way more progressive than he realistically would be on top of his opposition to needlessly brutal violence as the story continues. Point i'm making is that, when writers tackle cowboys, pirates, vikings, etc. we are always presented with a way more acceptable, sanitized, and mainstream friendly portrayal of them and their culture.

RestEerie · Jul 12, 2020

jman1954goat said:
I am saying the classic depiction of vikings are as evil. i was hoping this game would have have nuance and balance to the story but Ubisoft seems to have swung hard into the other direction saying they were good? just peaceful farmers looking for new land!

i mean, you are talking about a game when Odin might makes an appearance and the series with adam & eve as aliens or something. Not to give Ubisoft an excuse, i'm not a fan of their games at all, but expecting historical nuances in a series like Assassin's Creed is kinda futile.

ArkhamFantasy · Jul 12, 2020

Yeah, i also thought that was really weird. It's fine if you want to have a viking game, but why even bring that line up in the stream if you know you're about to cut to a village being raided?

ThePrince · Jul 12, 2020

Kaah said:
Uh, Vikings aren't the "villains" you think they are.
They kicked a lot of ass in England and other countries, but they were not worse than any other civilization at that time, including people from England. Invasion, raiding, war and all that stuff was pretty much standard, it wasn't a "viking thing".

That's not really the point being made here though. Generally the Assassin's Creed series has put you in the shoes of some kind of rebel or anti establishment figure either fighting corruption in their own country (AC2/Unity/Syndicate for example) or in conflict with an occupying force (AC1/Origins for example) whereas this game is making you the invader.

I mean they literally showed footage of the main character setting people's houses alight during a raid, most AC games would have you protecting those people rather than being the aggressor.

jman1954goat · Jul 12, 2020

Crossing Eden said:
The boss in the demo was a viking from another group and the entire questline centered around you aiding an English king right down to attending his wedding with a viking. I don't think the game will be as black and white as you're assuming.

Well thats good. im not passing final judgment on the game or saying the story will be trash we know very little of whats sure to be a very long game. the trailer gave me weird vibes though.

Z-Beat · Jul 12, 2020

Fat4all said:
Diet Vikings, now with 67% less rape

I mean they removed the pedophilia from Odyssey, or at least from most of the story that I got through

Siggy-P · Jul 12, 2020

Z-Beat said:
I mean they removed the pedophilia from Odyssey, or at least from most of the story that I got through

And the raping, murdering and etc from half the cast of Black Flag.

Sande · Jul 12, 2020

Kinda like Odyssey where you're destabilizing regions and playing both sides of a war. You pretty much have to skip half the game if you want to play anything approaching a good person.

And yeah yeah, "you're an assassin, what'd you expect". But these games are trying to pretend to be RPGs now so little things like being able to not be morally reprehensible is kind of expected.

JusDoIt · Jul 12, 2020

Cosmic Voyager said:
It's more about freedom vs. control than it is about good vs. evil.

This. The assassins we play are almost always one of the underdogs in any given conflict too, because they're usually opposing some form of domination.

Buckle · Jul 12, 2020

-Tetsuo- said:
I mean we already had an AC about pirates

That shit with sad music playing as Blackbeard died was hilarious.

Fuck that guy.

Crossing Eden · Jul 12, 2020

jman1954goat said:
Well thats good. im not passing final judgment on the game or saying the story will be trash we know very little of whats sure to be a very long game. the trailer gave me weird vibes though.

That line in the trailer was a relatively extreme version of saying that they did a lot of extensive research about vikings and seperate groups within Vikings and that they're going to steer away from portraying them in a black and white situation. I would be incredibly shocked if the entire game was "All Vikings were actually good" given how the story of AC4 portrayed pirates and how, in the end, it was quite critical of pirates, specifically Edward's obsession with finding treasure and riches at the expense of the people closest to him.

Kinthey · Jul 12, 2020

It will probably more sanitized than something like the Vikings series. I bet Eivor's clan will be against any slavery

ScatheZombie · Jul 12, 2020

Why aren't these mass-market entertainment products including things that would make them unsalable!?!?

Where's the historical accuracy in a game series that has never had historical accuracy?!?!

Slackbladder · Jul 12, 2020

As far as I saw you fought a nasty Viking who was threatening a Saxon ally, so they do exist in the game. Now i'm sure there are inaccuracies in the game but do some research and you'll find it's no so simple as good vs evil (which was certainly the opinion of the Saxons of the Great Heathen Army as the Danes were called).
Interestingly you play as a Norwegian Viking. They were not as numerous as the Danes and often worked as Mercernaries. Also interestingly Eivor settles in East Anglia which was the home of the Viking Chief Guthrum who plays an important part in history.
I've never found AC games too lacking in historical accuracy. It's just people think what little they know is enough when there is a shit ton of knowledge to be mined. That said it's best to look for it in books not video games.

catvonpee · Jul 12, 2020

Fat4all said:
Diet Vikings, now with 67% less rape

I probably shouldn't have laughed at this as much as I did.

Are we the baddies? Assassin's Creed Valhalla.

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