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SecondNature

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,163
Much as I enjoy this game, I feel like it just cant compete with Fortnite's amazing content drip. Being an FPS really limits BR games, unless they work on adding multiple maps like PUBG. I also feel like their Legends system is too difficult to really balance when everyone needs like 2 abilities and an ult.
 

PlzUninstall

Member
Oct 30, 2017
563
Much as I enjoy this game, I feel like it just cant compete with Fortnite's amazing content drip. Being an FPS really limits BR games, unless they work on adding multiple maps like PUBG. I also feel like their Legends system is too difficult to really balance when everyone needs like 2 abilities and an ult.
My guy, Fortnite didn't have much going on at first. They didn't even introduce their battlepass until 4-6 months after release and I don't believe that was even the full battlepass as it is known now.

You're not nearly giving Apex enough time or credit.
 

Deleted member 15848

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,952

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
My guy, Fortnite didn't have much going on at first. They didn't even introduce their battlepass until 4-6 months after release and I don't believe that was even the full battlepass as it is known now.

You're not nearly giving Apex enough time or credit.
Fortnite also only had 1 competitor in a new genre and it went free to play to undermine it. Gaas style games coming out today are not being judged by what games were 2-3 years ago, they're coming out competing with games in their current state today. And as it stands it certainly doesnt feel like this game as going to be able to keep with its major competitors if they cant even tell us when a date is planned for a season 1 update that's supposed to launch somewhere in the next 13 days.
 

SecondNature

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,163
My guy, Fortnite didn't have much going on at first. They didn't even introduce their battlepass until 4-6 months after release and I don't believe that was even the full battlepass as it is known now.

You're not nearly giving Apex enough time or credit.


It's less a timing thing and more the way both games are built. Yeah, Fortnite had the privilege of no competition, but I think it also had more novelty in its mechanics that people were satisfied for those 4 months. The building mechanics and strategies evolved a lot in those 4 months.

The skill ceiling in Apex is far lower.

Fortnite's map is bigger and constantly evolves. It's their biggest way they hype the game ever season. Very unlikely we see this with Apex.

Then there's the TPP compared to FPP. Third person allows a lot more freedom in creating items. You arent limited to FPP in a TPP game and can add all kinds of more interesting things. Then there's the entire item system-- we wont ever see loot items as creative since most ideas are tied to abilities.

New characters are hard to create when you need 3 abilities for each one (which I think was a mistake that forces the design into a corner), especially when you need an ult that isn't too powerful, which people dont like in BR games.

I also feel as if 1 mode limits the game, whereas people enjoy the traditional variety of solos, doubles, and squads, as well as the numerous other modes Fortnite offers. Then there's Fortnite's building aspect which adds another dimension to its longevity

of course, the building also hurts fortnite's access, but I feel as if people are pushing for a ranked mode that is meant to tackle that issue. Then there's the cosmetics and in-game events. No game does this quite like Fortnite, and neither Apex or Blackout seem to be able to try. I havent once cared to look at cosmetic skins in Apex, but I love the emotes and skins in Fortnite.

Fortnite also reacts really quick to the competition. Already they have a ping system and respawn beacons coming soon. It's a testament to how easily they are able to evolve the game as a service.

Im not a game designer though, so that's not to say they wont give us a lot of cool stuff, but I think Fortnite's style is undeniably less restrictive in gameplay and cosmetics. I just feel like a class based FPP BR game is inherently harder to design and balance.
 

spootime

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
3,432
Much as I enjoy this game, I feel like it just cant compete with Fortnite's amazing content drip. Being an FPS really limits BR games, unless they work on adding multiple maps like PUBG. I also feel like their Legends system is too difficult to really balance when everyone needs like 2 abilities and an ult.

I mean the thing with these BR games is that all you really have is the content drip. There's no real depth to the game, you just run at people and try to shoot them. So if you don't have that constant artificial progression and content drip you're going to get bored pretty quick. Epic figured that out and is very very good at it.

It's also not really about giving anyone credit or giving Apex a chance. I like the game and I enjoy playing it but I'm getting bored because at the end of the day its just another BR. I'll take a break to play sekiro and maybe come back for the battlepass after.

I have no clue how im ever gonna get that 4000 dmg badge

I got 13 kills and 1933 damage and felt like i was pushing my limit. Idk how im supposed to do better than that

I've been trying to farm it for a bit now, its really hard. Are you on PC? Best way I've found is to fight really bad teams with scout or longbow. I just shoot them till they're out of consumables and then kill them. Honestly I think you just gotta get lucky because even getting 20 kills wont guarantee it at all
 

Deleted member 15848

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,952
Respawn is planning on adding a bunch of stuff according to leaks. They already have multiple legends and game modes in the pipeline.
 

Heel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,283
My guy, Fortnite didn't have much going on at first. They didn't even introduce their battlepass until 4-6 months after release and I don't believe that was even the full battlepass as it is known now.

You're not nearly giving Apex enough time or credit.

Not a valid comparison. The difference is Apex is entering a genre with established expectations for content that Fortnite didn't initially have. It's the reason Apex has a season roadmap for content in the first place.

I think EA and Respawn realize they have lightning in a bottle and have one shot to get the battle pass right. It dictates the next 3 months of the game, which is pretty much a sink or swim time frame. Better to wait an extra week or two than end up with a season pass that kills the momentum.
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
The kill leader as it currently stands, according to reddit at least, makes no fucking sense. Ive wondered why it seemed bugged for so long but apparently if the actual kill leader dies, it doesn't appoint the next highest kill leader with the title, it gives it to someone with over 3 kills who happens to kill someone the fastest after kill leader died. So you could have 9 kills but if the kill leader dies and someone gets a kill at 3 they then become kill leader at 4. In what fucking world does this make sense? Lol

At this point it would have been better to say nothing at all. The communication is really lacking and basically the opposite of transparent.
Seriously its become so obnoxious the way theyve handled communication on this pass. I can't believe anyone is defending them.
 

toku

沢山特別
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,121
Ne Monde
You guys are 100% spoiled. What do you want them to communicate that they're working on it which we already know? That they're already testing a variety of fixes for everything from hitboxes to further weapon balance? It's been a month and they've had to combat leaks, exploits and hackers but the game is still a lot of fun and playable.
 

HiLife

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
39,727
You guys are 100% spoiled. What do you want them to communicate that they're working on it which we already know? That they're already testing a variety of fixes for everything from hitboxes to further weapon balance? It's been a month and they've had to combat leaks, exploits and hackers but the game is still a lot of fun and playable.

People need them skinz and tings.
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
You guys are 100% spoiled. What do you want them to communicate that they're working on it which we already know? That they're already testing a variety of fixes for everything from hitboxes to further weapon balance? It's been a month and they've had to combat leaks, exploits and hackers but the game is still a lot of fun and playable.
Tweeting they have a date but not sharing that date is stupid. Just dont say anything if youre going to comment and say nothing, like I would seriously hope they have a date in mind for an update thats coming in less than 2 weeks lol. It also has nothing to do with being spoiled and wanting this game to remain at the top of the genre. Wanting it to be able to compete with the likes of fortnite isn't being spoiled, its wanting the game to maintain this level of success.

I can't believe people getting so salty about the battle pass. It will come when it comes. It's been 6 weeks only. Just breathe
No one is not breathing. Its almost like were allowed to talk about something without being upset or angry or have different opinions on something than others. The sentiment that no one can talk about this without being salty or upset is so silly, because thats literally what the majority of responses in here are when people bring up the season pass and thinking they should communicate better.
 

benj

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,833
there is no real point or benefit to them sharing a date, and there is always, always, always, the possibility that something can go wrong and force the date further back. if game audiences were whatsoever compassionate, reasonable people, game companies could put out a date and then, if something went wrong, explain what happened, adjust the date, and have that be reasonably well-received. unfortunately, because people who play games are spoiled infants, having to renege on a stated date means that developers get harassed, abused, accused of "lying", whatever.

given the context, there's no real impetus for them to be unnecessarily transparent with how far along they are on given content, and there's a whole lot of evidence indicating that it is extremely in game devs' best interests to keep information locked down for as long as they can
 

Salarians

Knights of Favonius World Tour '21
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,730
momwife.club
y'all do yourselves a favor and buy titanfall 2 for $6 or whatever and just play that until the BP releases
 

ara

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,026
y'all do yourselves a favor and buy titanfall 2 for $6 or whatever and just play that until the BP releases

That's what I've been doing tonight lol. It's a supremely satisfying game to play and the competition isn't actually as stiff as I expected, usually end with a kdr of way over 1.0.
 

Salarians

Knights of Favonius World Tour '21
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,730
momwife.club
That's what I've been doing tonight lol. It's a supremely satisfying game to play and the competition isn't actually as stiff as I expected, usually end with a kdr of way over 1.0.
yeah, I've been playing it here and there on PS4 and I've done surprisingly well for myself

it's also a wildly fun game lol

and a good change of pace from apex
 

Cth

The Fallen
Oct 29, 2017
1,809
apex_legends_road_map_battle_pass.jpg


The game launched with a specific window. They never gave a specific date, just the month. They've kept their word so far.

Once it hits April and no battle pass by all means go nuts.
 

Woolley

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,422
I hope the battle pass brings back the good players. Right now I'm winning most of my games and it's getting kind of boring.
 

Rental

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,659
Lol at people who think there is less possibilities than fortnight with cosmetics just cause it's a FPS. R6 uses outfits and weapon skins and it seems to do just fine in charging $ for them. The epics are expensive in that game and people would but them all the time upon release. I'd argue you get way less use for them in that game than Apex. You also don't know what paid animations and other items that will come out that will be incentives to make people getting towards them. I'd honestly like them to add something that gives a random possibility for a pack for each top 3 placement. I think as more items/legends come it it's viable for this to happen. People are short sighted I feel and just relate back to fortnight does.

Also this game has abilities. Nothing to say they won't offer some special cosmetics that can change animations of the abilities or the equipment displayed like in DotA. Also they could have announcer packs that I'm sure people would buy or grind towards as well. There is plenty of items that will add playability and variety to this game. This isn't even mentioning the release of legends that's only going to keep people coming back upon each release.

I think once the battle pass is out and they start really profiting we will see much more investment and idea of where they are taking it. I think we will see additional maps in this game and not map enhancements like blackout does. This would be huge if they could put a new map out every two seasons. I think it's doable if they keep the size of the maps the same.
 

antitrop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,631
The kill leader as it currently stands, according to reddit at least, makes no fucking sense. Ive wondered why it seemed bugged for so long but apparently if the actual kill leader dies, it doesn't appoint the next highest kill leader with the title, it gives it to someone with over 3 kills who happens to kill someone the fastest after kill leader died. So you could have 9 kills but if the kill leader dies and someone gets a kill at 3 they then become kill leader at 4. In what fucking world does this make sense? Lol
This explains a lot and I've always noticed something was funky with the Kill Leader appointments, but didn't know exactly what.
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
This explains a lot and I've always noticed something was funky with the Kill Leader appointments, but didn't know exactly what.
Yeah I also was so confused when almost every game I have double the kills the current "kill leader" has. What I dont understand is when I get kill leader and this happens anyway, not sure if youve experienced this but in addition to that scenario there are times I'll be the kill leader right out of a hot drop but someone else with less kills will get it 5 minutes later. I still think its a bug even if how it was previously described is still how it works.
 

Barneystuta

Member
Nov 4, 2017
1,637
It's less a timing thing and more the way both games are built. Yeah, Fortnite had the privilege of no competition, but I think it also had more novelty in its mechanics that people were satisfied for those 4 months. The building mechanics and strategies evolved a lot in those 4 months.

The skill ceiling in Apex is far lower.

Fortnite's map is bigger and constantly evolves. It's their biggest way they hype the game ever season. Very unlikely we see this with Apex.

Then there's the TPP compared to FPP. Third person allows a lot more freedom in creating items. You arent limited to FPP in a TPP game and can add all kinds of more interesting things. Then there's the entire item system-- we wont ever see loot items as creative since most ideas are tied to abilities.

New characters are hard to create when you need 3 abilities for each one (which I think was a mistake that forces the design into a corner), especially when you need an ult that isn't too powerful, which people dont like in BR games.

I also feel as if 1 mode limits the game, whereas people enjoy the traditional variety of solos, doubles, and squads, as well as the numerous other modes Fortnite offers. Then there's Fortnite's building aspect which adds another dimension to its longevity

of course, the building also hurts fortnite's access, but I feel as if people are pushing for a ranked mode that is meant to tackle that issue. Then there's the cosmetics and in-game events. No game does this quite like Fortnite, and neither Apex or Blackout seem to be able to try. I havent once cared to look at cosmetic skins in Apex, but I love the emotes and skins in Fortnite.

Fortnite also reacts really quick to the competition. Already they have a ping system and respawn beacons coming soon. It's a testament to how easily they are able to evolve the game as a service.

Im not a game designer though, so that's not to say they wont give us a lot of cool stuff, but I think Fortnite's style is undeniably less restrictive in gameplay and cosmetics. I just feel like a class based FPP BR game is inherently harder to design and balance.

These are all fair and understandable points, but you are comparing the biggest game on the planet, one of the biggest of all time, to something that came out about 7 weeks ago.

The fact that Apex Legends is even competing with Fortnite is testament to what a superb base game they've built.

In my opinion, there is a lot they could do and re-work some Titanfall ideas into the game.

A lot of the current abilities are based on that game already, as are the weapons, so here are a few things we could see:

- NPC's - Titanfall was full of them. Grunts, Spectres, and even Titans in some modes. Could they introduce these into the game somehow? Or a special event?

- Map changes - It doesn't need to be a new map. But they could refresh the existing one in meaningful ways. E.g Drop Ship crashed in the ground somewhere or a Titan graveyard

- Weapons and Abilities - there are still a few from Titanfall 2 we've not seen. Perhaps they've been dismissed already, but there are some things that could work. And I bet Respawn have a whole host of rejected Titanfall ideas that could work in Apex.

- New modes - Solo, Duos, Quads. They could introduce these things. But what about a Bounty Hunt style mode with NPCs and a Bounty on the 'kill leader' ?

I have complete faith in Respawn. I loved Titanfall, I loved Titanfall 2, and I feel many of their ideas and modes went under appreciated or underfulfilled.

With Apex, they have the audience to really push the boundaries.

Some things will land, some will completely miss, and some may be came changers.

But can they push Fortnite and PUBG in the medium/long term? I think they really can and I look forward to seeing what comes down the pipeline over the coming months (or even years).
 

btkadams

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,321
Apex isn't competing with 2017 Fortnite; it's competing with 2019 Fortnite.

I don't think it's fair to dismiss Respawn before they've had a few months with the game and have ramped up their pipeline, but it's hard not to compare it with its competition.

I expect Season 1 to be fairly safe but I hope the success they've had so far has spurred EA to invest heavily and quickly. I hope we start seeing map changes and other modes in Season 2.
 

Blah

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,602
Solo mode mitigates more issues of playing with randoms than ranked matchmaking would.

If MMR was introduced then suddenly it moves to blaming smurfs and being indignant that you're *somehow* the same skill rank as your "lousy" teammate so it's the system that must be broken.

That's exactly how Rocket League is. Everybody thinks they should be a higher rank and blame their teammates for holding them down in this endless treadmill of dissatisfaction.

If anything, a training grounds style matchmaking (first 10 levels or something) if you're playing solo would go a long way for newbies and veterans alike. Since beginning players literally have no idea what they're doing, as opposed to just not being good, so they can pick up on the fundamentals together.
 

toku

沢山特別
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,121
Ne Monde
Idk how they're gonna do it with abilities/characters but even if it was like, some non descript titanfall pilot/grunt with no abilities I'd still be happy. I like abilities and hero aspect just fine but I also really like the pure movement and gunplay enough to be fine without them. Let me drop as one of those bot characters from Titanfall 2 I'm gucci.


Everyone go buy and rebuy Titanfall 2. Bless up.
 

Barneystuta

Member
Nov 4, 2017
1,637
Just had another sweet game.

We landed in the hot zone, but it was miles across the map so it wasnt overly popular. At least we thought.

We took out a few squad members, but there was another squad closing in on us. They got my two team mates and I had about 3 bullets, no shields and a 1/3rd health.

We were near Thunderdome and my two team mates banners were wide in the open. They were being looted and I had no way of stopping them. I waited patiently, hoping they wouldn't spot or hear me. I sat in silence.

As soon as they finished looting, i rushed in, picked up the banners, and got of there!

With 2 banners, 3 bullets, and a long way to run to get to the ring (near bunker) I put my weapon away and sprinted for my life. I didnt even stop to grab any loot!

I got to the Respawn beacon between between Airbase and Bunker and saved the day.

We regrouped and I dropped a Portal to the pit hoping it hadn't been looted... it hadn't been touched!

Purple armour, lots of energy ammo (I had a devotion) and a Purple Shotgun bolt. And lots of other weapons and items for the rest of the squad.

We had a few other encounters and then the final few rings hit. It was going to be in the North West of Artillery.

As soon as we entered, we saw a squad camped on the building where the final ring was likely to be.

My squad engaged at distance while I pushed in hoping to pick one off. Some back and too, shields recharged on both sides, and I got one but they got me.

I was down and out.

The ring kept closing and the final ring position wasnt on top of the building! So the enemy squad had to come down and take on my 2 squad mates.

They absolutely delivered and played an excellent game. Closing doors to recharge and reload, they went on and secured the win.

TLDR:

- Don't leave when downed. You may just win.
 

PlzUninstall

Member
Oct 30, 2017
563
Not a valid comparison. The difference is Apex is entering a genre with established expectations for content that Fortnite didn't initially have. It's the reason Apex has a season roadmap for content in the first place.

I think EA and Respawn realize they have lightning in a bottle and have one shot to get the battle pass right. It dictates the next 3 months of the game, which is pretty much a sink or swim time frame. Better to wait an extra week or two than end up with a season pass that kills the momentum.
How is it not a fair comparison? I'm stating that we need to give Respawn more time because they haven't even had 2 months yet. Even if they were on the same starting point it's been 5 weeks since launch?
 

Salarians

Knights of Favonius World Tour '21
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,730
momwife.club
What is it with you people? You dont want to play solo? Dont.

Why should the option not be there for those who want it?
I thought the hashtag would've made it clear I was being cheeky lol

I'm not that interested in solo apex but I am curious to see how they will (or won't) adjust the characters for it
as they are I feel like it may as well be a Lifelines only mode
 

f0rk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,697
What is it with you people? You dont want to play solo? Dont.

Why should the option not be there for those who want it?
I don't really care, but I'd rather they didn't. Those who want it will start moaning about how the game is not designed or balanced for 1v1 fights and the play patterns it will promote. Then I think any changes to help it would be to a detriment of the original mode
 

HotHamWater

Member
Oct 25, 2017
683
Dorset, UK
Man, if you actually spectate people after you die (on PC), you realise how many people are cheating. It's kinda ridiculous. Played 6 games today, 2 of the games we've died to people clearly using aimbots and no recoil, and another where we killed a squad of Chinese folk using speed hacks but incapable of aiming. 50% of games.
 

Heel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,283
How is it not a fair comparison? I'm stating that we need to give Respawn more time because they haven't even had 2 months yet. Even if they were on the same starting point it's been 5 weeks since launch?

I don't mind waiting personally, but I don't think the masses are as patient and expectations have changed. btkadams said it better than I can:

Apex isn't competing with 2017 Fortnite; it's competing with 2019 Fortnite.

I don't think it's fair to dismiss Respawn before they've had a few months with the game and have ramped up their pipeline, but it's hard not to compare it with its competition.

I expect Season 1 to be fairly safe but I hope the success they've had so far has spurred EA to invest heavily and quickly. I hope we start seeing map changes and other modes in Season 2.

Agreed on your points. I really doubt they released the game into the marketplace out of the blue without a set gameplan and post-launch content ready to go given the competition and expectations of regular content from players.

With that said, I wouldn't doubt that their gameplan changed and EA went "all hands on deck" when they reached such a scale of players. Whether that be more content for the season pass, tweaking how the pass will work for player retention (acquired currency, time spent to progress, etc.), that kind of thing.

Releasing something that sets the tone for 3 months isn't something you want to bumble, and any perceived delay and lack of communication is more than likely a product of things becoming fluid and "ramping up their pipeline" as you said, with the need to nail the season pass on a game that suddenly became very important on the business side of things for EA.
 
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Deleted member 11069

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,001
I think lots of devs have learned the hard way how tough the "games as a service" model can be on their production.
I've followed another game (also free to play) closely that kept running into delays and bled all their players over the following months. Their roadmap was super ambitious and they over sold how meaningful their updates would be.

It does not help that a lot of this is led by streamers who by design always have to chase the next thing. They get bored quick and it creates this perception of something stale.
 

Dodgerfan74

Member
Dec 27, 2017
2,696
Apex isn't competing with 2017 Fortnite; it's competing with 2019 Fortnite.

I don't think it's fair to dismiss Respawn before they've had a few months with the game and have ramped up their pipeline, but it's hard not to compare it with its competition.

I expect Season 1 to be fairly safe but I hope the success they've had so far has spurred EA to invest heavily and quickly. I hope we start seeing map changes and other modes in Season 2.

Yup, Fortnite changed the game and people expect better from these GaaS now. If Respawn can't keep up, then maybe they deserve to bleed players and attention. I hope they get new stuff out soon along with continued fast turnaround balance work.

I don't really care, but I'd rather they didn't. Those who want it will start moaning about how the game is not designed or balanced for 1v1 fights and the play patterns it will promote. Then I think any changes to help it would be to a detriment of the original mode

Agreed. Add solos, but don't balance around it. I don't want to see any tweaks aimed at making the game better for the 60 person Octane/Wraith death matches. Fuck that.

We need solos though. Played like 5 hours of duos with a friend today and our randoms had like 3 kills, cumulatively. Just completely fucking helpless people. Let them go die and relaunch over and over in solos and stop dragging down teams trying to actually play the game. It's really not a hard game at all. Ping stuff, stick close. That's all it takes to be a useful teammate and people can't even fucking handle that.
 

Barneystuta

Member
Nov 4, 2017
1,637
Some interesting and fair points here - for Apex to keep its audience, they are going to have to keep it fresh. People are thirsty for more content, I get that, and I am sure it will come.

I still can not believe Respawn knew what they had though. I mean, they are a very talented studio backed by EAs cash. It is a recipe for potential success... but not guaranteed. See Titanfall.

They knew they had a solid game. But could they even dream of a launch this big?

They had 50m players on the 4th of March. In 4 weeks. That is unbelievable. For a game shadow dropped with no preview or partial launch and no open/public beta.

The curve has likely slowed down now and a fair few of those players may not return. But still.

If I was to Hazard a guess, Respawn saw this as a 'beta' type launch but didnt call it that. It is a fully functioning polished game that has its core mechanics nailed. And Season 1 was to be the 'true' launch.

But the success has took it to another level now and expectations are sky high.

I want content, you want content, we all want more content. I really believe that if they are sitting on stuff for an extra week or so, it is because they want to nail it, just like the launch.
 
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