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Jonnax

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,952
www.latimes.com

How the 🤏symbol helped fan the rise of anti-feminism in South Korea

The pinching hand symbol has become a point of contention in a charged battle over gender and anti-feminist backlash by men's rights groups.





Just saw this trending on twitter.

The gist is that the 🤏 pinching hands emoji has upset the men's rights types who believe feminism has gone too far.

This is South Korea one of the most unequal countries in the world.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_inequality_in_South_Korea

Out of 144 countries they are:
127th for Economic Participation and Opportunity
101st for Educational Attainment


m.koreaherald.com

Most victims of dating violence in Korea are women: police

Women are far more likely to be victims of violence in a relationship than men, recent police statistics continue to confirm. Last year, police charged 9,858 people with crimes against their intimate partners, including murder, rape, battery and stalking. Women were victims in 9,682 of those...

Korea Women's Hot Line's analysis of crimes reported by the media shows at least one woman was killed or nearly killed by her male partner every 1.8 days in 2019. The figure excludes crimes that were not covered by the media.


So that sets the scene and here's some quotes from the article showing how pathetic the victimhood feeling these.men have are:

Men's rights groups have taken to searching for the image included in various posters and ad campaigns, in a McCarthyistic hunt for companies, organizations or their employees sympathetic to feminism, targeting them with boycotts or a barrage of complaints.


And they're having success

And their campaigns have proved effective: Major corporations have disciplined or demoted employees for advertisements that used the pinching hand, government ministries and municipalities have apologized and revamped promotional material, museums have dismantled displays and celebrities have seen their careers threatened.


More than 65% of South Korean men in their 20s said they equated feminism with hatred of men, according to a 2018 survey by the Korean Women's Development Institute, and 56.5% said they would break up with their girlfriend if she was a feminist.


"Feminism is a mental illness" has become a common refrain in some street protests by men's rights activists. One columnist wrote in 2015 that "mindless feminism" was "more dangerous than the Islamic State" militant group.


The origins of the 🤏 pinching hands meme is as follows:
The pinching hand entered the gender debate in South Korea in 2015, years before it became an emoji. That year, a group of South Korean women fed up with widespread misogyny on male-dominated online forums decided the best way to push back was to give as good as they got. They began referring to men by their genitals, as men had often done of women. They created male versions of online slang that was degrading to women, and reverted sexist idioms — "A woman's voice should never go beyond the fence," "Women and dried fish need a pounding once every three days" — against men. They ridiculed and belittled men based on their physical appearance, and often, the size of their appendage.


In 2016, a voice actor for a video game was fired after she posted a photo of herself online in a T-shirt that read "Girls do not need a prince,"

I remember also there was a music artist that had to apologise when she took a photo with her reading a feminist book.

In 2018, men and women came to blows at a pub in Seoul after an argument in which they yelled the insults popularized online at each other — the women shouting "6.9," the average penis size of Korean men in centimeters according to one 2003 study, and men retorting by calling them "Megal bitch."

In April, a branch of the convenience store chain GS25 faced criticism after a job posting specified that applicants should not be a feminist, leading to an apology from the corporate headquarters.



Ha Heon-gi, a former legislative aide and founder of the media consultancy New Communication Lab, said the men behind the effort were taking a page from the feminists' book and using methods they've seen employed by women to object to misogynistic statements or practices and extract apologies or topple powerful men.


"It's tit for tat. You've taken issue with ridiculous things so we do the same," he said. "It's a sense of political efficacy, that collective action works. Women got together in one voice and were listened to. Men didn't have that experience and now they're making their will known as consumers."

There's really no self awareness with these men.
South Korea is famous for sexism, this doesn't help that perception at all.

The country is at the level where a convenience store thought it alright to say they don't hire feminists.

The article also mentions that conservative mayors have been elected for both Seoul and Busan stemming from discontented men in their 20s and this movement.
 

nsilvias

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,982
there insulting our bodies says dudes living in a country where plastic surgery is so popular with women because dudes are shallow
 

Magneton

Banned
Jul 31, 2018
244
It's difficult for me to put my reaction into words. Achieving gender equality is obviously vitally important and completely worth upsetting a bunch of bad faith misogynists. I also hate body shaming in all of its forms.
 

darfox8

Member
Nov 5, 2017
984
USA
While I generally think that emoji is mean spirited and kinda toxic I also think these men are telling on themselves.
 

ibyea

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,164
Young Korean men in their 20s/early 30s vote like white grievance voters in the US, but towards feminism. There is a reckoning coming, and it threatens the viability of the progressive Korean politics in the future.
 

stersauce

Prophet of Truth
Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
3,816
san jose, ca
I'm still reading the LA Times article, but this is incredibly surprising to me:

While anti-feminism has been associated with alt-right movements elsewhere, in South Korea, suspicion of and antipathy toward feminism are gaining broad-based support. More than 65% of South Korean men in their 20s said they equated feminism with hatred of men, according to a 2018 survey by the Korean Women's Development Institute, and 56.5% said they would break up with their girlfriend if she was a feminist.
 

Deleted member 7051

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,254
Hahaha their dicks are tiny. /s

It is legitimately hilarious how fragile men can be when they feel threatened by women who just want to be treated as equals. Maybe if you didn't treat women like shit they wouldn't grow to resent you.
 

ibyea

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,164
The article also mentions that conservative mayors have been elected for both Seoul and Busan stemming from discontented men in their 20s and this movement.
Eh, while it is a contributing factor, there were more reasons than that. Especially Busan, which is historically conservative.
 

mbpm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,806
Wasn't there just a hack of McDonald's in South Korea recently? Probably unrelated.

what's probably not unrelated was that huge child porn secret chat room that was exposed last year
 

Nepenthe

When the music hits, you feel no pain.
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
20,903
I'm perfectly okay with women making fun of men's perceived small dick sizes in a society where a woman is assaulted/murdered by a man every two days.
 
Oct 28, 2017
4,970
I'm still reading the LA Times article, but this is incredibly surprising to me:

The exit polls in the most recent election was just insane. Like a HUGE split in male/female voting preferences especially in the youth, bigger than US/UK gender voting preferences that are already bad. There's definitely going to be a reckoning that I don't think that is easy to deal with.
 

el jacko

Member
Dec 12, 2017
947
I'm still reading the LA Times article, but this is incredibly surprising to me:
I can't read the article, but this is definitely only half the story - literally, because the same men in their 20s who hate feminism (imagine a country full of MRAs) is being matched in almost equal numbers by women in their 20s going in the exact opposite direction.

The best example has been President Moon's poll numbers split by age and gender, which generally track with the liberalism of whatever generation - until you hit people in their 20s (and 30s) where men overwhelmingly disapprove, and women overwhelmingly approve. It seems fascinating, but also terrifying!
 

hanshen

Member
Jun 24, 2018
3,880
Chicago, IL
It's also worth noting that South Korea has the lowest birth rate among all East Asian countries. Many have contributed the plumbing birth rate to the huge gender and economic inequality among other reasons. In a sense, sexism is literally killing the country.

lymanupdatefig-3-copy-w640.png
 

GamerJM

Member
Nov 8, 2017
15,698
As someone with a borderline micropenis, there probably would have ideally been a better way to get the message across, but anyone who becomes antifeminist because of this is a jackass acting in bad faith. And I'm in favor of any movement that aims for gender equality in Korea.
 

SolidSnakex

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,498
If you follow Kpop at all then you know how wild this shit can get. A few years ago Irene from Red Velvet simply mentioned that she was reading a book called Kim Ji Young, Born 1982, which is perceived as being a feminist novel. Some male fans lost their shit and started attacking her online and posting images of them burning and cutting up merchandise they had of her. Around the same time a member of Apink was photographed with a phone case that said "Girls can do anything", and she was attacked for "promoting feminism". That's how sensitive those who're anti-feminist are in Korea.
 

atomsk eater

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,831
Everything I've heard about feminism in South Korea makes me believe even if women weren't body shaming men with emoji men's rights dudes would find some other way to excuse their misogyny with a quickness. Like not different from how men's rights people elsewhere would respond but that movement is particularly virulent/powerful in SK. The lady who was fired for wearing that "girls don't need a prince" shirt, such an innocuous and true statement that wouldn't raise an eyebrow in other places yet enough dudes lost their minds over it that the company cut ties, which makes no sense to me.
 

Stencil

Member
Oct 30, 2017
10,424
USA
I mean. I get that the emoji is being used for body-shaming purposes, and that's hurtful. But considering what those women are up against, is it really all that uncalled for? I can't believe that they're so anti-feminist.

It's sad.
 

RPGam3r

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,616
If you follow Kpop at all then you know how wild this shit can get. A few years ago Irene from Red Velvet simply mentioned that she was reading a book called Kim Ji Young, Born 1982, which is perceived as being a feminist novel. Some male fans lost their shit and started attacking her online and posting images of them burning and cutting up merchandise they had of her. Around the same time a member of Apink was photographed with a phone case that said "Girls can do anything", and she was attacked for "promoting feminism". That's how sensitive those who're anti-feminist are in Korea.

Yeah this shit is disgusting and fuck the pretend-to-be-offended misogynist. Cant take what they dish out.
 

atomsk eater

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,831
And while I don't agree with body shaming it's real telling that the emoji is a reversal of how men would talk about women's genitals but men think they need some kind of "tit for tat" response. Instead of thinking "wow we've been treating women like this, it doesn't feel good" they just throw away self reflection and dig their heels in.
 

Einbroch

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,068
A Korean gacha game had a character call another character a "slut". This was changed from "slut" to "clown" in a patch. A huge section of the KR community boycotted the game, did mass refunds, and stormed the boards claiming changing the insult was too far.

Embarrassing.
 

Tsuyu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,669
I been seeing " I just know it's small " on tiktok a lot recently, so I guess it's a universal way of getting back at Men's Right Activists.
 

Cels

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,803
it is crazy to get this bent out of shape about an emoji, to claim that feminism is more dangerous than ISIS, or to fire someone for wearing a shirt that says "girls do not need a prince" -- since the typical korean male discourse online is to refer to women by their genitalia i don't see why korean men get bent out of shape about women turning it around on them.

however, i also see what kim is saying where he feels the sins of past generations who were undeniably more patriarchal than the latest generation of young people are being used to scapegoat the young generation, since he's only 28 and personally had the experience of female peers acting as student leaders or group leaders. and, he had the experience of electing the only female president in korea. obviously just because a woman became president doesn't mean that sexism was solved, but it certainly is evidence that things have progressed over the years
 

daschysta

Member
Mar 24, 2019
899
Obviously it doesn't compare in seriousness to gender based inequalities in South Korea, we shouldn't be cheering body shaming of any type. It can indeed happen to men or women, and can be psychologically damaging to either.
 

SRG01

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,027
I'm still reading the LA Times article, but this is incredibly surprising to me:

It's not surprising as modern attitudes develop in SK, resulting in the loss of privilege in what used to be an extremely patriarchal society.

This isn't restricted to SK either -- it's endemic to nearly all (East) Asian countries.
 

Cuburger

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,975
There is a lot to unpack here. My first thought it that just from Gamergate and the anti-SJW/feminist movement a few years ago, I don't think you are winning broader support doing the "eye for an eye" sort of retaliation since this reinforces the idea that there is some sort of hidden misandry in feminism that not only gives the anti-feminist movement ammo, but pushes people that might otherwise be on the fence, ignorant, or that could support feminism if it didn't appear "men-hating" on it's face.

I certainly don't have a problem with the similar sort of jabs that women get thrown at them for their bodies, especially when pushing back against broader and systemic gender inequity, but I think making it the rallying cry of your movement, not a response in-kind to a similar retort or just about men's insecurities, starts getting into gross territory that just makes the whole entrenched gender warfare a scenario that only polarizes things. I assume it's a sign of how polarized and bad things are already, but the more it can appear to be framed as "men vs. women", I can't think that is a good strategy.

Also this is yikes, not gonna lie.
In 2018, men and women came to blows at a pub in Seoul after an argument in which they yelled the insults popularized online at each other — the women shouting "6.9," the average penis size of Korean men in centimeters according to one 2003 study, and men retorting by calling them "Megal bitch."
As if it isn't already a global stereotype that Asian men have small dicks (like someone unironically said in this thread about South Park jokes and their multiple "Asian guy has a small dick" jokes), a bunch of Korean woman trying to use science to shame and humiliate Korean men? Big oof.
 

Atlas_XIX

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,065
It's the got to joke women use when they don't like or respect a dude these people should do some introspection on why that is and get out of these women way instead of fighting them and giving them a hard time.
 
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entrydenied

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
7,615
As someone with a borderline micropenis, there probably would have ideally been a better way to get the message across, but anyone who becomes antifeminist because of this is a jackass acting in bad faith. And I'm in favor of any movement that aims for gender equality in Korea.

Might be TMI but mine's below average too and I have no problems with women using that emoji to mock men in this situation. When women have been pushed to the extreme they need to find ways to retaliate.
 

entrydenied

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
7,615
I wonder if this make those men even more insecure if the asians have small dick stereotype is in there too

It's not like Asian men aren't already stereotyping themselves to make themselves feel better.

Here in Singapore there's this colloquial term often aimed at white folks, about how they have bigger penises. In situations when used by men on women who chose to be with non Asian partners, it is a derogatory term about how these women only chose white men because of their larger penises. So these men think they're better in many aspects except in the one thing they cannot beat white men in, which are larger penises, and "women like big dicks" so it's not their fault that women didn't choose them for the one thing they cannot control. It's pretty messed up.
 

Xterrian

Member
Apr 20, 2018
2,819
Out if curiosity's sake I decided to Google what "megal" meant. Turned out to be quite a rabbit hole

Starting point: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megalia

It's a tough situation over there it looks like. You add all the unequal gender practices on top of immense social pressure, a rather conservative culture, and easy access to radical groups online.

I hope they can figure out something soon.
 

jonjonaug

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,688
Out if curiosity's sake I decided to Google what "megal" meant. Turned out to be quite a rabbit hole

Starting point: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megalia

It's a tough situation over there it looks like. You add all the unequal gender practices on top of immense social pressure, a rather conservative culture, and easy access to radical groups online.

I hope they can figure out something soon.
This website sounds like radfem 00s 4chan lol
 

DemyxC

Member
Dec 3, 2020
701
The situation is SK is completely FUBAR and while I don't like making fun of people for shit like that. I guess it does highlight the BS . I'm hoping for the best for the women over there.
 
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Landy828

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,453
Clemson, SC
User banned (2 Weeks): Racist stereotyping
everyone hurt by that emoji is outing themselves lmao

I mean, if everyone averages 2.7", technically the ones that don't understand the anger of the women are just outing themselves as horrible people. They're not likely to be much "smaller/bigger" than the next guy they're standing next to.
 
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