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Almost universally, I tend to prefer Japanese game developers to Western ones. Why is that?
- Thread starter Exellus
- Start date
Yea this is basically what it is for me. The Japanese devs also don't really focus on MP much outside of Fighting games.
Lol never seen this. Reminds me of Lost Planet.
Or audible. I can't tell you what what Uncharted or Dishonored sound like except for their main themes maybe. While I will cry you rivers when listening to the Nier Automata Soundtrack.
However, this is not about quality. Western devs are just as talented and hard working. I think it is based on the economy in Japan. Selling soundtracks is a big thing there so a soundtrack must be prominent in the presentation, while western devs can enter the more ambient soundtrack world.
Same goes for movies as far as I have noticed.
More focus on gameplay
Even most big budget cinematic games like MGS has huge gameplay emphasis over everything else
Even most big budget cinematic games like MGS has huge gameplay emphasis over everything else
Yes, that's the feeling I got too, every time a new game is announced and the focus is on how many graphics it has and how technical advance it is I am like "OK I guess, will it play well though?"
It's okay to prefer one over the other overall but when someone acts like both Eastern and Western games aren't hugely varied for art and gameplay, then it's hard to take them seriously.
Only finished GoW but have tried 6 of them or previous iterations of them. Its hard to explain what im talking about so ill just give the example of the decision to get the camera way closer to Kratos and also remove the jump. Now its important to say that I love GoW and I think it has the best gameplay/mechanics of the franchise (never was a fan of the older ones) but this slight movement to a certain goal in these AAA games is something that I find off-putting in a specific part of the industry that I dont value as much as other game philosophies.
I don't choose one or the other. I love games from any part of the world.
Reading this thread it seems to me people aren't playing enough Japanese or Western games. Both of them focus on the gameplay and story. Of the games I am currently playing I have Japanese games with huge focus on the story and western games with focus on the gameplay. I also have games the opposite of what I just described.
As for the art style and presentation, I can see the difference between the two. Japanese games are usually less polished and detailed compared to western games. I can't describe it but I can know if a game is Japanese or not by looking at it
Same goes for Western games.
Reading this thread it seems to me people aren't playing enough Japanese or Western games. Both of them focus on the gameplay and story. Of the games I am currently playing I have Japanese games with huge focus on the story and western games with focus on the gameplay. I also have games the opposite of what I just described.
As for the art style and presentation, I can see the difference between the two. Japanese games are usually less polished and detailed compared to western games. I can't describe it but I can know if a game is Japanese or not by looking at it
Same goes for Western games.
Not only does GoW's cinematic focus make it an outlier amongst current trends, it also mixes the cinematic focus with other modern trends, for example, because of the pseudo open world, it's five times as long as the other GoW games. Not only that, but it absolutely does not have a focus on realism, the graphics are pretty yes, but they're also very heavily stylized like a film.
I feel like Japanese games have always been more about testing your skill in some way, shape, or form.
On the other hand, many Western games are more about immersion, storyline, environment, or progression.
I love skill-test games (and develop them) so naturally, I've always loved Japanese games and continue to generally prefer them.
On the other hand, many Western games are more about immersion, storyline, environment, or progression.
I love skill-test games (and develop them) so naturally, I've always loved Japanese games and continue to generally prefer them.
Indeed. Monster Hunter World gave me the game addictive rush I haven't felt for nearly a decade AND that's saying something.
And Western have Anthem and Warframe. There are more games in third person shooter genre than just Gears of War.
Some of the posts in this thread are really, really, really weird. I'm sitting here wondering if some Japanese games fans have literally never played any non-Japanese games that weren't made by Sony or Rockstar. Maybe it's a cycle. People don't like non-Japanese games, so they don't play them, and as a result they don't really know what they're talking about.
People say weird stuff like, "Japanese developers place a higher priority on gameplay." Compared to whom? How does MGS place higher focus on gameplay than Thief? Than Splinter Cell? To Far Cry? Japanese developers were the ones with long, long, long cutscenes while most of the rest of the industry was chopping game narrative down to its bones.
People talk as thought Metal Gear Solid V, for example, is some amazing brainstroke of Japanese game design that is unique to Japan. It's basically a Ubisoft game without the systemic living breathing world stuff because that stuff is really hard to do. Where do people think that minimalist approach to narrative came from? Did they not play Far Cry 2 or something? Also, notice how nobody credits Call of Duty games for their extremely responsive controls? For their approach to storytelling that typically leaves the player in control of their character as much as possible?
I know most gamers don't know anything about game development, but it's kinda odd how many seem completely unaware that gameplay prototyping is the first stage of AAA game development. Before a game gets greenlit, developers typically have to demonstrate how it will play. Why people will want to play it. It's absolutely critical. Nobody sells their game to a publisher or gets it greenlit on the basis of having a cool sounding story. AAA publishers don't care about the story, the characters, the visuals. They don't care so much about why you do the things you do, but rather what you do.
The gameplay loop of a game is typically nailed down when the level design consists of coloured blocks. It is iterated and polished all the way to the end of development, and even after development ends. Developers work closely with playtesters to figure out how to make the gameplay better.
Not to mention all the comments about game music that blithely omit all the games with bold, evocative music so people can trot out some kind of "Japanese developers care about melody while everyone else only cares about mood music".
Far Cry New Dawn was released a month ago. Has a narrative so minimal it attracted complaints. Has a bold and memorable soundtrack that is slightly less bold and memorable than Far Cry 5, which was released a year ago. It's exactly the sort of game that gets ignored in these sorts of threads because it doesn't fit the weird "non-Japanese games are playable movies with bland meandering soundtracks and very little focus on gameplay" schtick.
Watch_Dogs 2 was released three years ago. Was deeply gameplay focused. Mechanics. Systems. Etc. Watch_Dogs 3 will be the same. So will the next Splinter Cell. In fact, as others have probably mentioned, the arguments against "western" game design seem to completely ignore the existence of Ubisoft as a company for the most part. Instead we get this fixation on Sony "cinematic" titles and Rockstar "stray too far to the left and it's game over" games.
People say weird stuff like, "Japanese developers place a higher priority on gameplay." Compared to whom? How does MGS place higher focus on gameplay than Thief? Than Splinter Cell? To Far Cry? Japanese developers were the ones with long, long, long cutscenes while most of the rest of the industry was chopping game narrative down to its bones.
People talk as thought Metal Gear Solid V, for example, is some amazing brainstroke of Japanese game design that is unique to Japan. It's basically a Ubisoft game without the systemic living breathing world stuff because that stuff is really hard to do. Where do people think that minimalist approach to narrative came from? Did they not play Far Cry 2 or something? Also, notice how nobody credits Call of Duty games for their extremely responsive controls? For their approach to storytelling that typically leaves the player in control of their character as much as possible?
I know most gamers don't know anything about game development, but it's kinda odd how many seem completely unaware that gameplay prototyping is the first stage of AAA game development. Before a game gets greenlit, developers typically have to demonstrate how it will play. Why people will want to play it. It's absolutely critical. Nobody sells their game to a publisher or gets it greenlit on the basis of having a cool sounding story. AAA publishers don't care about the story, the characters, the visuals. They don't care so much about why you do the things you do, but rather what you do.
The gameplay loop of a game is typically nailed down when the level design consists of coloured blocks. It is iterated and polished all the way to the end of development, and even after development ends. Developers work closely with playtesters to figure out how to make the gameplay better.
Not to mention all the comments about game music that blithely omit all the games with bold, evocative music so people can trot out some kind of "Japanese developers care about melody while everyone else only cares about mood music".
Far Cry New Dawn was released a month ago. Has a narrative so minimal it attracted complaints. Has a bold and memorable soundtrack that is slightly less bold and memorable than Far Cry 5, which was released a year ago. It's exactly the sort of game that gets ignored in these sorts of threads because it doesn't fit the weird "non-Japanese games are playable movies with bland meandering soundtracks and very little focus on gameplay" schtick.
Watch_Dogs 2 was released three years ago. Was deeply gameplay focused. Mechanics. Systems. Etc. Watch_Dogs 3 will be the same. So will the next Splinter Cell. In fact, as others have probably mentioned, the arguments against "western" game design seem to completely ignore the existence of Ubisoft as a company for the most part. Instead we get this fixation on Sony "cinematic" titles and Rockstar "stray too far to the left and it's game over" games.
What does that even mean? I'm having flashbacks of an infamous thread where the OP claimed that PC graphics were "too angular."
Extensive HUD elements aren't unique to Japanese games. Here's an actual gameplay screenshot of Witcher 3:
The real differences between Japanese and western games tend to be the following:
- Japanese games usually have better melee combat while western games usually have better ranged combat.
- Western games generally put more emphasis on player agency in both gameplay and narrative while Japanese games are generally more linear and predetermined.
- Japanese protagonists tend to be much younger than western protagonists. It's pretty rare for a western game to feature a teenage protagonist but all too common in Japanese games.
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i only noticed this about myself about a year ago. i think someone called me out on it and it had me reflect on the stuff i tend to play.
not sure what it is. i think japanese devs generally work better within limitations, while the remaining big-budget western studios are all fighting for the same audience and aren't exploring new territory. western indie developers have made some great shit though. undertale, oxenfree, and celeste are all wonderful games that i love a whole bunch, so maybe it's just the culture at super-rich companies and there are simply more of those in the west.
not sure what it is. i think japanese devs generally work better within limitations, while the remaining big-budget western studios are all fighting for the same audience and aren't exploring new territory. western indie developers have made some great shit though. undertale, oxenfree, and celeste are all wonderful games that i love a whole bunch, so maybe it's just the culture at super-rich companies and there are simply more of those in the west.
I do like japanese games more, but i would be lying if i said that what tips the scale is not a certain company from Kyoto.
But i feel like saying you prefer japaneses games 100% and dislike western games is lame, i guess maybe if you dislike fps (some people here have a weird grudge against the fps camera) and dislike rpg's with real choices and freedom.
But i feel like saying you prefer japaneses games 100% and dislike western games is lame, i guess maybe if you dislike fps (some people here have a weird grudge against the fps camera) and dislike rpg's with real choices and freedom.
Haha, yeah, dumb Westerners, making stuff like Dota, Counter-strike, Minecraft, and Rocket League, wtf are these interactive movies with no gameplay.
Capcom isn't the only Japanese developer. Naughty Dog isn't the only non-Japanese developer.
You need to look at a broader range of games. Persona 5 focuses more on compelling story. Doom 2016 focuses more on skill-based action. The stereotypes of Japanese and non-Japanese games don't really capture the variety that exists.
I don't really get holding up Ubisoft like some arbiter of gameplay mechanics because I find their games just as boring as EA or Activision's.
Apex Legends, Call of Duty, Starcraft, Destiny, and Overwatch are all examples of mechanics-first games. Just because you don't like the mechanics in those games doesn't mean they're not the focus.
I must say I prefer japanese games as well in general. However, I think a lot of western games have their own appeal and are pretty much awesome.
This made me lol.
Anyway this thread reads like a combination of the stupidest takes in all of gaming with weird Japanese worship. Including the OP. (NGL making me uncomfortable)
Like Titanfall 2 and Apex Legends have some of the most satisfying shooting ever, and that's a mechanic focused game that suddenly doesn't count for some reason.
Besides the best game of all time was made by a western developer. Deus Ex.
Indie games from the west or really anywhere outside have been the most creative they've ever been. Celeste is better than 99% of both Japanese and Western games that have been put out and its a 'mechanics focused' game.
I used to think that way, until I played a daunting visual novel with a weak story called persona5.
I tend to like Japanese games more too as their game design philosophy clicks with me more, but I'm still disappointed that there hasn't been a Japanese RPG that can rival the likes of Witcher 3 in terms of open world quests and story-telling. Also, where are all the japanese isometric action rpg looter Diablo-like games at? Falcom kinda tried it with Xanadu Next, but that's about it. Seems like only western and Korean developers truly care about this genre, one that I like a lot.
Ubisoft has been one of the most transparent about their changing intent with game design and industry trends in general. You can literally track the shift in focus from the beginning of this gen to what their games are like now.
Aside from what you listed in the OP, I feel that Japanese games have better gameplay and a better focus on good input response most of the times.
Nintendo games, Platinum games, Capcom games, From games (if we ignore how bad they perforn on consoles)... have a big focus in offering good gameplay/controls. Even most JRPGs have combat menus that are far easier to navigate than menus in CRPGs.
Western FPS (like COD or DOOM) are aimed at 60 fps/tight input response, but western games from other genres focus more the presentation/motion capture/graphics than the gameplay or good control response.
Take Tw3 or RDRII for example, two big ambitious games with good graphics and cinematic presentation that have both poor controls/gameplay/mission design.
Nintendo games, Platinum games, Capcom games, From games (if we ignore how bad they perforn on consoles)... have a big focus in offering good gameplay/controls. Even most JRPGs have combat menus that are far easier to navigate than menus in CRPGs.
Western FPS (like COD or DOOM) are aimed at 60 fps/tight input response, but western games from other genres focus more the presentation/motion capture/graphics than the gameplay or good control response.
Take Tw3 or RDRII for example, two big ambitious games with good graphics and cinematic presentation that have both poor controls/gameplay/mission design.
I feel like you have to ignore like every popular JRPG series for this to true and focus on a subset of Western games.
As a punishment for the posts in this thread I shall stop playing japanese games for the rest of 2019.
If I was as reductive as you guys are for western games I'm sure I could make the argument that they're all the fucking same too in some way
If I was as reductive as you guys are for western games I'm sure I could make the argument that they're all the fucking same too in some way
Cause they are more creative and they respect player agency and level design more than western devs.
Gameplay and ''game feel'' are also much superior.
Exactly, not to mention the gameplay is way better.
lol
Gameplay and ''game feel'' are also much superior.
Exactly, not to mention the gameplay is way better.
lol
Skyrim technically, if you count bows as shooting.
Yeah because Skyrim is known for its amazing combat 😀😀😀
I was asked for a non-Japanese game that had shooting and suplexes, I named one.
Japanese games often have better controls, but they suck at immersion. Everything is abstracted. The games often feature tons of menus and weird post-mission screens. Objects you can pick up are almost always represented by an icon or floating text, instead of a model of the actual object.
The worlds feel more like hollow backdrops, you're never really «there». FromSoft games are a bit better in this regard, though.
The worlds feel more like hollow backdrops, you're never really «there». FromSoft games are a bit better in this regard, though.
Also...
During the development of the early Splinter Cell games, there was a lot of infighting. One side wanted to make cinematic Metal Gear Solid-style games. A linear series of set pieces, essentially. The other side wanted to make systems-driven Thief-inspired sandbox games. Give the player a location, tools, and then let them solve the problem. The Thief fanboys, including Clint Hocking, largely won out. (Although not completely as evidenced by SC1/Pandora Tomorrow's conflicted styles.) He went on to direct Far Cry 2, and push that series away in a direction in line with what he did to Splinter Cell.
Chaos Theory's iconic bank mission is very clearly based on the template of Thief. It's all about the gameplay meshing with the level design. The central mechanics and how they interact is everything. Yes, there are narrative elements. But these do not intrude upon the central, highly polished stealth mechanics. Most of the Metal Gear Solid games had game mechanics that played second fiddle to the attempt to tell a story. It was always the starkest difference between the two series, until MGS V adopted Splinter Cell/Far Cry's design ideas.
Japanese developers seem to take risks and do more interesting and creative things in their games as of the last few years. While many western developers, especially within the AAA scape, have games that are all kind of samey.
Please name a few to beat these, western fans:
Open world gameplay: Dragon's Dogma, Metal Gear Solid V
Third person shooter gameplay: Vanquish, Resident Evil 4, Resident Evil 6, Metal Gear Solid V
Third person action RPG gameplay: Dragon's Dogma, Bloodborne, Nioh, Dark Souls 3, Sekiro
Third person character action gameplay: Bayonetta 2, Devil May Cry 5, Metal Gear Rising
Storytelling and characterization: Silent Hill 2, Nier Automata
Singleplayer level design (aka map design or world design): Castlevania:SOTN, Dark Souls, Bloodborne, REmake, REmake 2, RE4.
Yeah I know, forgive my shitty snark it was kinda mean.
Open world gameplay: Dragon's Dogma, Metal Gear Solid V
Third person shooter gameplay: Vanquish, Resident Evil 4, Resident Evil 6, Metal Gear Solid V
Third person action RPG gameplay: Dragon's Dogma, Bloodborne, Nioh, Dark Souls 3, Sekiro
Third person character action gameplay: Bayonetta 2, Devil May Cry 5, Metal Gear Rising
Storytelling and characterization: Silent Hill 2, Nier Automata
Singleplayer level design (aka map design or world design): Castlevania:SOTN, Dark Souls, Bloodborne, REmake, REmake 2, RE4.
Yeah I know, forgive my shitty snark it was kinda mean.
They are the kings and queens and princes and princesses of gameplay.