It's like the internet keeps giving people basic lessons to learn from yet they won't.
"Possibly Misinterpreted" is a good band name.
"Possibly Misinterpreted" is a good band name.
Because people love to be outraged today. You have a very reasonable stance; sadly, I don't see it too often with most people [online] these days.No one is blaming people for thinking it's transphobic at first glance. I even said this on the second page:
With even more understanding of his work, we now know that that's a character he uses a lot and in comics that cannot even be remotely seen as transphobic. He also seems to be very pro LGBT and the reason he dresses his characters like that is because his pro gender fluidity.
With everything that we now know of him, why even say "well, are they transphobic?". Like, this guy will forever be seen as a possible bigot just because people misinterpreted his work as face value? It's not wrong to be mistaken, and it's completely understandable in this case, but why not just say "oh, I guess that's not what I thought at first".
When in the end people think the characters are meant to represent trans people, then yeah, it doesn't matter. Trans people are still hurt by it. Transphobes are still making fun of trans people for being hurt by it. Hell, the latter actually feel more validated to make fun of trans people offended by this because of there being reason to believe the intent may not be transphobic.This is rubbish. Denying that intent matters means pretending it doesn't matter that these people aren't trans and that the "truth/lies has nothing to do with gender identity.
Ridiculous.
Basically what I was going to write earlier. I judge people based on intent and actions based on impact - this is imperfect as while you can judge an impact of an action you can never truly know someones intent, but if a person doesn't give me a reason to distrust what they say then I will almost always believe them. From everything I've seen I don't believe the artist is transphobic and I don't believe they meant harm (though we won't actually know unless the artist makes a statement) but I do think that due to the comic having no internal context and being pretty bad in general it's so very easy to read transphobia in it. Whether intentional or not the comic has hurt people and it's given bigots ammunition because of this which isn't something that can't just be waved away with "but the context!", the way the comic was presented out of context is harmful, just look at some of Twitter replies. Which is why I'm curious to hear the reasoning of the social media person for [AS] about what they intended by posting something that seems so blatantly inflammatory without any context.i was going to chime in when this thread was initially posted, but now that its taken this turn i'll just say this, its certainly possible for an artists work to have a message and represent something that they did not intend
intent is the be all end all when it comes to judging a person's character, but not when judging a person's art
Perfect summation.i was going to chime in when this thread was initially posted, but now that its taken this turn i'll just say this, its certainly possible for an artists work to have a message and represent something that they did not intend
intent is the be all end all when it comes to judging a person's character, but not when judging a person's art
You can't lament not seeing reasonable stances around and then move to reduce an entire section of the discussion as "people love to be outraged" before suggesting they need to learn something or have an introspective moment.Because people love to be outraged today. You have a very reasonable stance; sadly, I don't see it too often with most people [online] these days.
Eleven pages later, I guarantee you most of the people in this thread won't have learned a thing or have an introspective moment about this.
Go on..This place is embarrassing.
Need a pithy equivalent of milkshake duck - jumping the gun is too convoluted.
I mean for me at least I've been reading most of the criticism as believing this to be a case where the work being discussed was probably not intended to send a transphobic message, but it was poorly done or done thoughtlessly. I doubt this is far-reaching criticism that is going to ruin the artist's life. I do think it's a fundamentally bad comic though, and I'm mixed on the artist's work as a whole.
It's art, you are supposed to look for meaning and think about it. If the artist need to explain anything in detail, just that nobody misunderstands them, the magic of art gets lost.Well, that's the thing. Are they? I cannot know what motivates this artist in their heart of hearts but without that added context it is, as noted, steeped in transphobic stereotypes. If you wish to consider the question in that sense then we'll just talk in circles because the only person who could even have a chance to have the ability to answer with full knowledge of the circumstances and truthfully is the artist in question. We can still only guess from context and I do think most of us would prefer to be charitable.
There are a number of reasons people rush to judgments in cases like this, but I'd like to remind you that PTSD-induced hypervigilance is a hell of a drug, and unsurprisingly it is more common in vulnerable communities. A lot of people targeted by the sort of imagery these comics traffic in do not have the luxury of second-guessing their safety, and I do not blame them rushing to judgment.
PUT THIS IN EVERY THREADNo, but it has everything to do with legions of privileged people being too dense to fathom that interpreting something that looks transphobic as transphobic isn't the primary issue here.
This entire thread is basically comprised of cishet white men gaslighting people who have to deal with this kind of shit on a regular basis.
"Possibly misinterpreted" should be the default end on any topic-title these days.
Everyone wants everything to neatly fit their preconceived narrative to such a extent that nuance cant exist. You're correct that most wont learn a damn thing from any of thisBecause people love to be outraged today. You have a very reasonable stance; sadly, I don't see it too often with most people [online] these days.
Eleven pages later, I guarantee you most of the people in this thread won't have learned a thing or have an introspective moment about this.
I concur, I can see why the face impact of the OP could raise eyebrows but context matters, especially with some forms of art (see also Charlie Hebdo). I can also see that sometimes people are too impulsive (not sensitive like a previous poster suggests) and post an outraged reaction right away, but there should be an intermediate step of thought process in-between that seems lost on most users. Which is fine if you're 14, but I don't think that's the average user's age in here.Everyone wants everything to neatly fit their preconceived narrative to such a extent that nuance cant exist. You're correct that most wont learn a damn thing from any of this
well, the post right before the person above you isn't helping the tone of this thread at all. At some point threads like these give off a weird vibe to make hot takes on the state of progressive discussion. And they're usually done in bad faith.Telling people they're gaslighting others over a difference in perspective and art interpretation, hoo, what a fucking ride...
I raised more than eyebrow at the comic in the beginning, too, and was ready to just label it as transphobic and be done with it. That changes though, when one considers the context, and looks at the guy's other works, especially the one featuring that character. The real fuck up here was Adult Swim not delivering any sort of context, but this thread had devolded into dogpiling on the artist very, very quickly.
I understand how the isolated comic can be hurtful, I understand how one sees issues with the stereotypes, but rather than sticking to that very first hunch, I allowed context to change my evaluation of the content to something that isn't hurtful, or at least shouldn't be seen as such, I think that's okay, and just as valid a viewpoint as saying that it's harmful presented in such a way as Adult Swim did.
I wish this thead could have worked without people literally being at eachother's throats, I guess.
well, the post right after the person above you isn't helping the tone of this thread at all.
I concur, I can see why the face impact of the OP could raise eyebrows but context matters, especially with some forms of art (see also Charlie Hebdo). I can also see that sometimes people are too impulsive (not sensitive like a previous poster suggests) and post an outraged reaction right away, but there should be an intermediate step of thought process in-between that seems lost on most users. Which is fine if you're 14, but I don't think that's the average user's age in here.
And that's not just for this thread. Off-topic has threads with this same impulsive reactions every single day.
I understand this sounds patronizing, but if you act like 14yo, expect to be treated that way. Being a safe place for minorities and progressive thought does not justify these hateful reactions imo.
Edit: the quoted post is just for the "I concur" part. Obviously
The post right after the person above you? Isn't that the poster himself? Or was that the point, haha?well, the post right after the person above you isn't helping the tone of this thread at all.
Sorry, I worded it wrong. It's the post before the post above you.
Sorry, I worded it wrong. It's the post before the post above you.
Also all of this.When in the end people think the characters are meant to represent trans people, then yeah, it doesn't matter. Trans people are still hurt by it. Transphobes are still making fun of trans people for being hurt by it. Hell, the latter actually feel more validated to make fun of trans people offended by this because of there being reason to believe the intent may not be transphobic.
Meanwhile people who don't care give them even more validation as they join in on saying people are just outraged. (For example: literally the post above this one) As if the only ones who get mad are other cis people who aren't actually affected. Shit like this does actually affect transgender people, we constantly see jokes like the original comic except intentionally aimed at us. And seeing that so often feels pretty terrible.
An accidental wound is still a wound.