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cwmartin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,766
When you watch a movie, you either watch the whole thing, or you misjudge it. Same goes for a song, or a comedy special, or anything.

So, if someone presents a clip of a movie, out of context, without additional commentary, what do you think is going to happen??

I think whats going to happen is exactly whats happening in this very thread. That does not mean the author or the work itself is transphobic because its presented out of context of his other works, and his personal beliefs. It's still NOT GOOD that something on its own appears the way that it does to cause this kind of reaction, but that doesn't mean it simply is transphobic because you don't like it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
10,780
Toronto, ON
well, that comic is pretty transphobic in itself (everyone must conform rather than have individuality) so i don't know how it's going to help. that interview seems to suggest he's not transphobic but having several examples of his "comics" that clearly show he is, i'm guessing he's lying.

It's not the author's personal opinion. It's an obvious commentary on others who feel that way and how the world tries to force you into those pre-made roles.
 

Alice

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
5,867
a group of obviously transgender characters are hiding in a cave from "the truth" and living a life of lies. pretty clear cut.

They're transgender because of their outfit? What about the journalism angle? What about the fact that this is a character this artist uses a lot in situations that have nothing to do with "being transgender"? This character isn't a mocking, it's his pet character for this series.

You also don't understand the quoted comic, if you believe that conformity is being sold as ANYTHING positive there... wtf.
 

Rouk'

Member
Jan 10, 2018
8,159
well, that comic is pretty transphobic in itself (everyone must conform rather than have individuality) so i don't know how it's going to help.
I honestly don't understand how you managed to read this comic that way ? He is clearly denouncing it, not the other way around. The first couple is clearly the victim here, they are the helpless ones (they are the ones with the happy faces, while the other couple is angry). It's not that good a comic but the intent is similar to the one you can find in this:
j7xiwjuu6bt21.jpg
Nothing deep, but it's denouncing society forcing people to act/think in a precise way
 

Einchy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
42,659
well, that comic is pretty transphobic in itself (everyone must conform rather than have individuality) so i don't know how it's going to help. that interview seems to suggest he's not transphobic but having several examples of his "comics" that clearly show he is, i'm guessing he's lying.
How do you see a comic where a straight couple is throwing an LGBT couple into a meat grinder to force them to conform as a pro-conformity message?

You even posted this comic:

Do you believe that's also a pro-conformity?
 

Surface of Me

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,207
Unironically lots of simplistic extremes in this thread.

I swear absurdism, and satire to a lesser extent, are like this forum's kryptonite.
 

Sexy Fish

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,396
well, that comic is pretty transphobic in itself (everyone must conform rather than have individuality) so i don't know how it's going to help. that interview seems to suggest he's not transphobic but having several examples of his "comics" that clearly show he is, i'm guessing he's lying.
....how do you read that comic like that when it obviously is criticizing the act of conforming.
 

thecouncil

Member
Oct 29, 2017
12,346
It's not the author's personal opinion. It's an obvious commentary on others who feel that way and how the world tries to force you into those pre-made roles.

I honestly don't understand how you managed to read this comic that way ? He is clearly denouncing it, not the other way around. The first couple is clearly the victim here, they are the helpless ones (they are the ones with the happy faces, while the other couple is angry). It's not that good a comic but the intent is similar to the one you can find in this:
Nothing deep, but it's denouncing society forcing people to act/think in a precise way

oh, i guess that's one way to look at it. i dont know. this guy is pretty shit at his job though if it can all be misinterpreted. i do know that.

How do you see a comic where a straight couple is throwing an LGBT couple into a meat grinder to force them to conform as a pro-conformity message?

You even posted this comic:

Do you believe that's also a pro-conformity?

well, they all end up the same in the end...

why is OP telling me this artist is transphobic if he isn't? clearly a LOT of people are seeing his work as transphobic.
 

Deleted member 12224

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,113
oh, i guess that's one way to look at it. i dont know. this guy is pretty shit at his job though if it can all be misinterpreted. i do know that.
"He's pretty shit at his job because I misinterpreted his work" is an unnecessary and weak attempt to deflect from your mistake.

It's okay to be wrong, even once. No one worth a damn will think negatively of you for it.
 

Einchy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
42,659
well, they all end up the same in the end...

why is OP telling me this artist is transphobic if he isn't?
But they're being forced to conform in the end, they don't want to. This is a bad thing. This is not a good thing. Those comic have sad endings.

[edit]

To your edit:

No, they're seeing THAT comic as transphobic. Without knowing this guy's art, and that particular comic's message not being clear, it's not odd to wonder what he tried to express. After seeing the rest of his comics, though, it's clear that transphobia wasn't the intent there. The two comics you posted are also clearly not transphobic or pro-conformity.

I can see why someone would question the comic in the OP, I cannot see how anyone could question those other two.
 
Oct 25, 2017
10,780
Toronto, ON
oh, i guess that's one way to look at it. i dont know. this guy is pretty shit at his job though if it can all be misinterpreted. i do know that.



well, they all end up the same in the end...

why is OP telling me this artist is transphobic if he isn't? clearly a LOT of people are seeing his work as transphobic.

I mean this in all sincerity, please think for yourself instead of just blindly listening to a thread on a forum.
 

Sexy Fish

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,396
why is OP telling me this artist is transphobic if he isn't? clearly a LOT of people are seeing his work as transphobic.
Gonna requote this for a new page.
I'd just like to chime in and say that his style is very Belgian, in that it both inherits absurdism of classic Margritte

300px-MagrittePipe.jpg


but is also influenced by the 80's - 90's weekly comics of Cowboy Henk which is often offensive and not always "haha" funny.

He's from the same "school" of artists like Jeroom, who publishes in the same magazine as Cowboy Henk (as does he) and who also does comics stuff for Adult Swim and sometimes uses similar absurd humor.

Here's some other stuff the artist did:

For brussels gay pride:

t4wvI5J.jpg


And for the Queer love festival
the%2Bcompromise.jpg


shady%2BB*tch%2BExpectations.jpg


shadyB*tch%2BGenderblenderbland.jpg



batlle%2Bof%2Bthe%2Bbodies.jpg
 

Robin

Restless Insomniac
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,503
The posted image can understandable be misinterpreted as transphobic. It isn't a very good comic either way. Context makes it plainly obvious the intent of the comic was not transphobic. You can make a "they should know better" argument but really it's just unfortunate more than anything. I can totally understand the reaction of seeing the first image and jumping to battlestations and the good intentions that comes from, but it just isn't necessary here.

Also, I don't understand the Sonic comic but I think it's my fucking shit?
 

Ponn

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
3,171
I mean this in all sincerity, please think for yourself instead of just blindly listening to a thread on a forum.

Here's the thing with this bullshit alt-right lite "you should think for yourself and not be sheeple, freethinkers!" bs.

1) it's extremely condescending because you're telling people they haven't thought about what they are interpreting.

2) it's most often used as a defense to something that is being viewed as problematic and most often attacking minorities and oppressed groups.

Maybe, jussssssst maybe if you truly wanted to be an ally to said oppressed minority group you might try being more empathetic and oh I don't know, listening to their concerns about stuff they experience every day. You know, instead of defending your position of privilege with a dissertation on why they shouldn't be offended by something clearly transphobic. Learning and thinking is a two way street.
 

KingM

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,484
oh, i guess that's one way to look at it. i dont know. this guy is pretty shit at his job though if it can all be misinterpreted. i do know that.



well, they all end up the same in the end...

why is OP telling me this artist is transphobic if he isn't? clearly a LOT of people are seeing his work as transphobic.
Art can be misinterpreted and that's fine. Not every work is meant to be as simple as a connect the dots puzzle. It doesn't mean that the artist is shit.
 

meowdi gras

Banned
Feb 24, 2018
12,679
If I'm having a hard time parsing whether or not the comic posted in the OP is transphobic without being forced to do a great deal of research, it's because its meaning is about as clear as Cow Tools.

Although congratulations to the artist, I suppose, for crafting that rare treat: a work of art which contrives to be both heavy-handed and obscure.
 
Oct 25, 2017
10,780
Toronto, ON
Here's the thing with this bullshit alt-right lite "you should think for yourself and not be sheeple, freethinkers!" bs.

1) it's extremely condescending because you're telling people they haven't thought about what they are interpreting.

2) it's most often used as a defense to something that is being viewed as problematic and most often attacking minorities and oppressed groups.

Maybe, jussssssst maybe if you truly wanted to be an ally to said oppressed minority group you might try being more empathetic and oh I don't know, listening to their concerns about stuff they experience every day. You know, instead of defending your position of privilege with a dissertation on why they shouldn't be offended by something clearly transphobic. Learning and thinking is a two way street.

I understand and appreciate the spirit of what you're saying, but look at the chain of posts that I'm responding to. The poster literally said "but the OP told me it was, so how is it not true?"
 

pants

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,215
Gonna requote this for a new page.

Hey thanks!

I actually saw this on Instagram the other day and didnt really "get" whatever it was going for, but also didnt see it as malicious. Seeing his other work reassures me this is a stylistic thing, and not intentionally malicious.

I think its really important to be an ally, even when I sometimes don't see what everyone else has identified as problematic. In this case I'm glad we're at least talking about it.
 

Nappuccino

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
13,028
Art can be misinterpreted and that's fine. Not every work is meant to be as simple as a connect the dots puzzle. It doesn't mean that the artist is shit.
This clearly had a message and that message is lost, so yeah. The comic that kicked off this discussion is shit either way.
 

Robin

Restless Insomniac
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,503
'I want the thing to be bigoted so that I can rally against it' should be Era's new slogan.

Honestly in the wake of a lot of legit transphobic bullshit, that's a really shitty thing to say. I agree that this ain't it but people are quick to jump in because we have sincerely transphobic shit flung at us every day of our lives.
 

Draper

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
4,285
Harrisburg, PA
Honestly in the wake of a lot of sincerely transphobic bullshit, that's a really shitty thing to say. I agree that this ain't it but people are quick to jump in because we have sincerely transphobic shit flung at us every day of our lives.

I understand, but this forum designs machinations of hate with everything in our culture. There's too much cry-wolf and it honestly makes the world seem worse than it truly is. I understand there's a lot of bad shit out there, but the cultural tone around here is so damn cynical and finger-pointing. It's just damn tiring.
 

Ephonk

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,951
Belgium
I understand, but this forum designs machinations of hate with everything in our culture. There's too much cry-wolf and it honestly makes the world seem worse than it truly is. I understand there's a lot of bad shit out there, but the cultural tone around here is so damn cynical and finger-pointing. It's just damn tiring.

A bit like this

36Xt48M.jpg
 

Dreamwriter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,461
I didn't necessarily see the comic being transphobic (however, it is portraying those characters in a negative light, so maybe), but it *is* spreading the President's point of view that the media is all about telling lies and must now hide from the truth. Which is something I didn't expect to come from Adult Swim.
 

Radeo

Banned
Apr 26, 2019
1,305
I understand, but this forum designs machinations of hate with everything in our culture. There's too much cry-wolf and it honestly makes the world seem worse than it truly is. I understand there's a lot of bad shit out there, but the cultural tone around here is so damn cynical and finger-pointing. It's just damn tiring.
Eh, I get what you mean if you're just looking at OPs and thread titles, but I find there's still a decent range of replies in nearly every thread.

People just need to make less leading titles
 

kami_sama

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,017
Ok, after seeing all the comics, I still think that the OP one is pretty bad, and I cannot think what the author wanted to convey apart from a transphobe idea.
But the other comics are mostly ok, some are even great, so why?
 

The Boat

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,881
Given the context of the artist's work and words, he doesn't seem transphobic, so I'm trying to understand the meaning behind this comic. Maybe that the truth is that the world is dangerous for the trans community, so they can be safe inside the cave? Or maybe it's trying to portray the way alt righters view the world?
 

KujoJosuke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,819
I think the meaning behind the OP comic is a bit lost, but it's clear the artist is pro individual gender expression and anti conformity based on other comics they've done.
 

Ralemont

Member
Jan 3, 2018
4,508
Given the context of the artist's work and words, he doesn't seem transphobic, so I'm trying to understand the meaning behind this comic. Maybe that the truth is that the world is dangerous for the trans community, so they can be safe inside the cave? Or maybe it's trying to portray the way alt righters view the world?

I think the first confusion is that this comic may not actually be about anything trans at all. Given a prior interview posted earlier in the thread, the artist likes experimenting with putting typically male and female traits together to make interesting looking characters. Moreover, the guy drawing a rainbows and unicorns is alluding to lying about everything being ok and happy (Link to an article about the phrase unicorns and rainbows) and not the LGBT connotations.

So basically if we go with that, the comic seems to be about journalists running from the truth and splattering their cave with lies about everything being ok. I still don't really get it since that seems like the opposite of what journalists do, unless this is about a specific subset of (pro-Trump?) journalists and I'm missing the context that provoked it.
 

Dreamwriter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,461
Given the context of the artist's work and words, he doesn't seem transphobic, so I'm trying to understand the meaning behind this comic. Maybe that the truth is that the world is dangerous for the trans community, so they can be safe inside the cave? Or maybe it's trying to portray the way alt righters view the world?
Seems pretty clear to me, trans has little/nothing to do with it (aside from maybe using them as something "goofy" to represent something the comic sees as negative, in this case journalists). The comic is spreading Trump's propaganda that journalists lie ("fake news!") - these ones see the truth coming so must hide from it to tell their lies.

May not be transphobic, but it's definitely not a message I'm happy Adult Swim is trying to spread.
 

GYODX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,249
Seems pretty clear to me, trans has little/nothing to do with it. The comic is spreading Trump's propaganda that journalists lie ("fake news!") - these ones see the truth coming so must hide from it to tell their lies.
What if the truth is something that's plainly obvious and staring right at our faces, like anthropomorphic climate change, and the journalists are people who work for Rupert Murdoch-owned rags like The Sun, News Corp, and Fox News?
 

GYODX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,249
Also, I don't see how anyone can argue that context isn't important. That's the same argument used to defend things and places that look innocent on the face of it, like /r/frenworld, Pepe, etc. Context is how you can pick up on the dog whistles and call them out as bigoted trash.
 

Lundren

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,745
What if the truth is something that's plainly obvious and staring right at our faces, like anthropomorphic climate change, and the journalists are people who work for Rupert Murdoch-owned rags like The Sun, News Corp, and Fox News?

In that case I think the caricatures should be different to make sure that idea comes across. Those people aren't the type to be gender fluid with their clothes or hairstyles. Characterization is important with comics and satire in general.

I can buy that the comic wasn't intended to be transphobic. The problem is that through sheer thoughtlessness it led to a lot of coincidences that make it look that way. As a stand alone comic, that isn't a good thing.
 

Dreamwriter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,461
What if the truth is something that's plainly obvious and staring right at our faces, like anthropomorphic climate change, and the journalists are people who work for Rupert Murdoch-owned rags like The Sun, News Corp, and Fox News?
The comic doesn't target specific journalists, it doesn't show any anthropomorphic climate change. it's just spreading the propaganda about journalists lieing.
 

Ephonk

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,951
Belgium
Very strange that people link this to trump. He has a whole series of comics about "truth" going back years, before trump and fake news, sometimes with a conflicting message, but that's absurism for ya.


12244531_10153673007714831_423637037897074476_o.jpg


31924659_10156239277259831_4621094045505028096_n.jpg


38831528_10156477708579831_7671873250736996352_n.jpg


45668747_10156696556544831_8959266998810836992_n.jpg


46468490_10156717372699831_8145062042689077248_n.jpg


55535178_10157028106199831_7007146045712891904_n.jpg
 

GYODX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,249
In that case I think the caricatures should be different to make sure that idea comes across. Those people aren't the type to be gender fluid with their clothes or hairstyles. Characterization is important with comics and satire in general.

I can buy that the comic wasn't intended to be transphobic. The problem is that through sheer thoughtlessness it led to a lot of coincidences that make it look that way. As a stand alone comic, that isn't a good thing.
I don't disagree, but you should also consider the power of suggestion: the thread title primed you to expect something transphobic. Would you have perceived it as transphobic or potentially transphobic had you seen it stand-alone? Maybe.
 

Dreamwriter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,461
Very strange that people link this to trump. He has a whole series of comics about "truth" going back years, before trump and fake news, sometimes with a conflicting message, but that's absurism for ya.
Because it's Trump's propaganda that journalists lie, which is what the comic is showing us. I don't see how Adult Swim posting a single comic showing this, in these days, could *not* be trying to promote Trump's propaganda.
 

Alice

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
5,867
In that case I think the caricatures should be different to make sure that idea comes across. Those people aren't the type to be gender fluid with their clothes or hairstyles. Characterization is important with comics and satire in general.

I can buy that the comic wasn't intended to be transphobic. The problem is that through sheer thoughtlessness it led to a lot of coincidences that make it look that way. As a stand alone comic, that isn't a good thing.

These "carricatures" are the character this strip is about for christ's sake. The context was already posted several pages ago.


Because it's Trump's propaganda that journalists lie, which is what the comic is showing us. I don't see how Adult Swim posting a single comic showing this, in these days, could *not* be trying to promote Trump's propaganda.

Journalists, especially the yellow press peddling lies and trying to sell feelgood bullshit over the real news is something that far, far, far predates Trump, predates Trump's birth even. Look at China, the argument absolutely and irrefutably applies to that context. The comic leaves this open on purpose.

The only reason you're linking this to Trump is because of what the characters are dressed at. And I'd say that's on you.
 
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