If it isn't emblematic of the USA then I dont know what is. Unforgettable for sure.
Yup. I was waiting for more details and then completely forgot about it. I hope they survived.
Aaron Bushnell, US airman, sets himself on fire in protest of Palestinian genocide outside Israeli embassy.
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If it isn't emblematic of the USA then I dont know what is. Unforgettable for sure.
Yup. I was waiting for more details and then completely forgot about it. I hope they survived.
So a man gives his life in form of protest to genocide, and some people's first instincts are:
- Say they shouldn't have done it, lecturing in the usefulness of the protest, very comfy while on a gaming forum
- Question their mental health, armchair diagnosis (as if being aware that thousands are dying, while the country you serve plays quite the part, isn't depressing enough)
If these type of protests gets forgotten and "don't work", its because of people like you, that tries to tone policing while doing jack shit instead of making their voices louder.
RIP Aaron.
- Say they shouldn't have done it, lecturing in the usefulness of the protest, very comfy while on a gaming forum
- Question their mental health, armchair diagnosis (as if being aware that thousands are dying, while the country you serve plays quite the part, isn't depressing enough)
If these type of protests gets forgotten and "don't work", its because of people like you, that tries to tone policing while doing jack shit instead of making their voices louder.
RIP Aaron.
It is literal whitewashing happening in real time, and frankly I find it fucking intolerable.
Here are the man's words quoted verbatim from the video he took of himself, for people who are acting confused about why he did this:
I understand why generally you don't provide too many details about suicides but when it comes to something this extreme a form of public protest I think we might need to consider things differently. Is there any data showing that self-immolations lead to copycat deaths?
damn, uncensored version. Absolutely brutal and incredibly painful way to go, I'm surprised he was able to stand for so long.
RIP.
Respect, hard to think of stronger convictions for a cause than choosing fire.
Also not to language police, but as a gentle nudge, using the terms 'died by suicide' or something neutral can be more helpful than 'committed suicide' as the latter has pretty negative connotations like someone committed a crime/sin by their actions which can perpetuate the societal stigma and make it difficult for someone to come forward when they need help. (Though maybe not in this case obviously)
It's a small thing, but every bit helps.
(sorry for minor derail but it seemed topical for the thread)
Also not to language police, but as a gentle nudge, using the terms 'died by suicide' or something neutral can be more helpful than 'committed suicide' as the latter has pretty negative connotations like someone committed a crime/sin by their actions which can perpetuate the societal stigma and make it difficult for someone to come forward when they need help. (Though maybe not in this case obviously)
It's a small thing, but every bit helps.
(sorry for minor derail but it seemed topical for the thread)
User Banned (1 Week): Inflammatory Point of Comparison
Of all the kinds of available protests, I explicitly don't want suicide protests to work. I want them to never work whether they are for or against something I believe in. Suicide should never be encouraged, and it should not be given positive reinforcement as a valid protest tactic. I do not think it should be controversial to hold such an opinion. Imagine the feelings of people with suicidal ideations reading this. Simply horrifying.
This post is comparably horrifying. I see little difference between this and pro-terrorism propaganda. You should not encourage the creation of martyrs no matter what your cause is. Hopefully this thread is locked soon because I don't see a positive conversation being possible at all here.
I feel for the gentleman and his family. May he find the peace he was unable to find in this life.
It's possible to respect the protester's viewpoints and unfortunate sacrifice while fearing the promotion of harmful methods. Let's encourage a supportive dialogue that looks for constructive, life-affirming ways to address injustices.
In my opinion, suicide as a form of political protest, especially one where dependents are involved, is deeply tragic and fundamentally concerning. It not only leaves behind a legacy of pain for the loved ones and dependents but also risks setting a precedent that could influence others to follow a similar path, overlooking other forms of activism that do not involve self-harm. While the desperation and urgency to bring about change are understood, it's crucial to advocate for and pursue methods of protest that promote life, dialogue, and sustainable change. Our efforts should aim to create a world where voices are heard and changes are made without the loss of life being used as a catalyst.
In my opinion, suicide as a form of political protest, especially one where dependents are involved, is deeply tragic and fundamentally concerning. It not only leaves behind a legacy of pain for the loved ones and dependents but also risks setting a precedent that could influence others to follow a similar path, overlooking other forms of activism that do not involve self-harm. While the desperation and urgency to bring about change are understood, it's crucial to advocate for and pursue methods of protest that promote life, dialogue, and sustainable change. Our efforts should aim to create a world where voices are heard and changes are made without the loss of life being used as a catalyst.
Then you are politically illiterate.
Aaron Bushnell was not a terrorist. He did not want to be complicit in the genocide of Gaza.
News coverage of this is depressingly predictable. I found a one sentence mention of it near the bottom of CNN.com, can't seem to find it mentioned on MSNBC's front page or Foxnews'. CBS at least still has it near the top of their page.
We don't need more suicides. It remains concrete fact that Aaron Bushnell was a man of greater conviction, courage, and conscience than the empty, leering skulls aiding and abetting mass slaughter like his supposed commander in chief. I refuse to cast aspersions upon this man or stigmatize his sacrifice. I'm uncomfortable and roused, and that is the way it should be. Would that we still had him, with so many cowards left behind.
Are you kidding me. Lol
What's a copper going to do, shoot at a flame that leaps towards him? Jesus
I wouldn't call this terrorism as he only harmed himself, but it's definitely extreme. I hope he didn't die. There are other ways to get the point across and no one has to die.
How would he be complicit in the genocide if the US hadn't been involved in the bombings or the war?!?
The US is willfully enabling the genocide. We are complicit.
User Banned (1 Week): Dismissive commentary over suicide
I mean, what more is there to say? Man killed himself, left a suicide note saying why he did it. It sucks.
132 people kill themselves every day.
take a second and think about what you're saying here. You're lamenting the fact that people think suicide as a protest doesn't work and that he shouldn't have done it. Would it be a good thing if suicide as protest did work? Would you be in favor of more people killing themselves in dramatic public ways as long as they say it's for "a good cause"? the idea that it's wrong to criticize or look down upon any form of protest is absurd and it should not be controversial to say that we should not encourage people to kill themselves.
…..what. I swear to god. Sometimes I don't know if I'm on era or Facebook with some of these dumbass comments
But they have worked in human history. A lot of times they are the last desperate attempt at being heard while not harming others.
I also wish they never happen. I wish other means of protests are heard and it never comes to this again.
But going from there and lecturing on why it was foolish to do it, or putting it down so I don't feel uncomfortable at the thought of it happening again? Nope, that is something I can't do.
The US is providing weapons and political cover for Israels genocide against the Palestinians, and have used their veto in the UNSC to repeatedly block any attempts to stop it.
The US has also went along with Israeli lies despite dubious / nonexistent evidence which led to sieges on hospitals and the cutting off of vital humanitarian aid.
This is a US backed massacre and famine.
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So is every article about a suicide. We only care about this one because it referenced a cause close to many's hearts. It sucks, but suicide is an escape from a world you don't want to be a part of, with a hope that your last message changes it.
I support the freeing of Palestine from Israel's apartheid, but what is happening here is just a sick glorification of suicide. As if this site doesn't have enough suicide threads. I implore you guys to go out and touch some grass because legit this thread is sickening, and the mods/admins who support this are incredibly irresponsible.
RIP Aaron Bushnell
it's a shame how people are trying to twist your message.
it's a shame how people are trying to twist your message.
Nah you a nasty ass individual for this post.
All forms of protest should be open to criticism. But it is also fair dues to say that there is more concern for Aaron's suicide within the context of mental health than there is for the Palestinian lives lost that he openly said he sacrificed himself for, and to question why that is the major concern.
Purely looking at timelines and motives, it seems like you can often see one person doing it first and then people following, though I guess that's simply the kind of thing that happens with protests.
List of political self-immolations - Wikipedia
btw. I had no idea so many different people have chosen to do this.
This went well beyond a suicide. I know American media and the public well enough to know it wouldn't get the coverage or interest it should, but it's no less depressing to see it played out. It's also depressing as a family member of a vet or who committed suicide to know the hell his wife and child are going to go through now just to get benefits. Probably made worse by the fact that his final act was a repudiation of his own government. I know many here frown on those who say Fuck Biden, but fuck Biden. He was right. We are complicit.
If you frame it that way sure. You could also say that the US government and its administration ordering support for a genocide drove a man to set himself ablaze as a last ditch effort to make his voice heard. One is neutered in a self serving way. Your own perspective on this removes the chance for introspection offered.
there's more concern where, in this thread that's explicitly about him?
we better keep up the genocide then huh. never mind the way it should be discouraged should be to stop the genocide
i'm one of those people. don't you dare use me as a shield to defend your worldview
The other forms of protest people mention haven't done anything. It's why, rightly or wrongly, people take it to this extreme. It's a final attempt to be heard, to effect change. Immediately discounting it as mental illness is to invalidate their desperation at having no other means to do so in a system actively complicit in genocide.
We pay taxes my guy. Our taxes are paying for over 3 billion USD in annual aid + the munitions/bombs being given to Israel.
Yes, in a thread that is specifically titled to let you know that Aaron Bushnell sacrificed himself to protest the ongoing Palestinian genocide, people are willingly choosing to ignore all of that context.
Why?
RIP Aaron.
When activists make people's commute 15 minutes longer they're just as mad.
A lot of Etcetera is, unfortunately, actively anti-protest. Not just critical, straight up "have you considered how doing nothing and being quiet will actually be better??"
When activists make people's commute 15 minutes longer they're just as mad.
Aaron Bushnell is not the US. Bushnell as a DevOps Engineer as far as we know did not provide operational support for any of those actions. We don't even know who he voted for or if he even voted. Unless your position is that everyone living in the US is complicit, then it's valid to ask how Bushnell was complicit in response to post saying he did not want to be complicit.
I think a key takeaway I've learned from this thread is to not get into a whitewashing competition with a liberal—you'll always lose!
It's too early to say the primary vote protest in Michigan wont have an affect. At the very least its putting the genocide front and center on the news on all the major news outlets. Top democrats today are being forced to respond to those protests. Whether or not that has an affect on Biden's choices, I have no idea. I hope the protest sends a strong enough message to do so.
You have to understand how this is different than just "another statistic" or whatever you're trying to claim. You get that right? Self-immolation has a lot of historical context and weight behind it, and isn't done just because someone wants to commit suicide.
It's horrifying and terrible, and there is a reason this specific act gets people's attention. We still talk about the immolation of buddist monks from back in Vietnam. It's a horrific statement.
I'm not saying anyone should say this is what he should have done or this is how he should protest, but this was an explicit act of protest against a genocide being enabled by the government he was an active part in and resented. And to dismiss that diminishes him and any agency he had in making this decision.
If I voted for the guy directly enabling the genocide, in my mind I'm complicit. It's not hard to see how this young man felt the same way.
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