You really think he's talking about Ben Carson in the context of a just conducted interview?
You really think he's talking about Ben Carson in the context of a just conducted interview?
I mean, this seems like a common sense understanding of what 'identity politics" is about. It's not about being excited that Ben Carson is leading HUD. It's about having diverse voices represented and having those voices speak on behalf of their communities rather than throwing them under the bus.I posted this in PoliERA, but I'm curious what people think about AOC's stance on identity politics. To me it's pretty similar to Bernie's but just more...well thought out since he has a huge blind spot that she doesn't by virtue of him being an old white guy. This was from. Na interview she did with The Intercept.
"Sometimes people throw this term around - 'identity politics' - and a lot of people, when they use that term, they'll all mean something different. And so in terms of using the term 'identity politics' as 'Vote for me, I'm XYZ', to use that as the sole basis for voting for someone, I think is incorrect and it's flawed, because there are a lot of, I think...I mean, there are a lot of Trojan horses (laughs). There are a lot of folks who say 'Vote for me, I am this intersection of different identities' but at the same time they still try to advance or are primarily financed by special interests, so it doesn't necessarily get us to where we need to be.
At the same time, I think that a lot of our problems that we have here, our current social problems, are due to the fact that we've ignored a lot of the history of the United States along race, religion, class, and creed. And because we don't want to discuss the fact, for example, that slavery eventually evolved into Jim Crow which eventually evolved into the mass incarceration system, to pretend that mass incarceration is not tied to race, to pretend that current immigration policy is not tied to racism or xenophobia is also a mistake.
I am running and my identity is important because the district is about 70% people of color, the district is about 40% primarily Spanish speaking, it's at least half Latino. And it's not the fact that I'm a Hispanic woman that allows me to better represent this district, it's about the fact that it's a lens that I have to better organize and communicate with the people who live here."
Working class is disproportionately comprised of PoC. Things like medicare for all and tuition free college would greatly benefit PoC and the LGBTQ+ community. More so than white people. So there are definitely ways to counteract the effects of racism through "economic" policy. Race and economics are intrinsically intertwined after all. But then of course you still need policies that address specific issues not necessarily tied to economics like police brutality rates against black people, discrimination against trans people, etc. In general though you can absolutely get closer to equal treatment for all people with "colorblind" policies, but obviously it won't get you all the way there.
and now you know why i sometimes just respond to bad arguments with meme imagesWrong again. I apologize. I was wrong, and you did support hillary over bernie. I'm sorry.
I was just giving example how parties use PoCs to imply that they have the groups interest at heart.1) A Republican
2) When did Ben Carson ever imply or give the impression that people should vote for him because he's black?
Maybe I'm off, but I think my post agrees with the point you're making (that PoC are more likely to be working class than white people) and yet your post has a tone like you're upset about what I said.In terms of demographics, white workers are underrepresented in this group compared to the nation as a whole; in 2015, they made up 59 percent of the working class versus 64 percent of the adult U.S. population. By 2032, people of color are set to become the majority in this section of the labor force.
Huh.....
Huh...
I guess 41% versus 36% is disproportionate? Huh. Okay.
https://www.citylab.com/equity/2017/12/who-is-working-class-in-3-infographics/547559/
1) A Republican
2) When did Ben Carson ever imply or give the impression that people should vote for him because he's black?
I was just giving example how parties use PoCs to imply that they have the groups interest at heart.
Ben Carson absolutely used his identity as a black man to advance the argument poverty was a mindset not a legacy of institutional racism, and that his life story proves that, and went so far as to quote MLK to justify bootstraps.
and now you know why i sometimes just respond to bad arguments with meme images
I just wasted 15 minutes that i should have been getting sleep on digging up old posts on neogaf to respond to bullshit. i should just stick to meme images next time
He moved out to Vermont after college, because it seems he simply liked rural areas better. (Something which is another overlap with the "old old old school socialist" mentality I attribute a number of his philisophical problems to.)
Maybe I'm off, but I think my post agrees with the point you're making (that PoC are more likely to be working class than white people) and yet your post has a tone like you're upset about what I said.
You have to look at the wealth gap to see the depth of the problem w/ the WWC vs the non-white WC.
Income alone shows you there's a problem but actually does obscure how bad it is.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/09/18/upshot/black-white-wealth-gap-perceptions.htmlCan you cite anything that shows the disparity in wealth between white and poc working class?
There was a small stink up when AOC endorsed a white male progressive over a lesbian Native American. Some wanted AOC to endorse the latter because of her identity, not her policies.I mean Herman Cain did absolutely the same thing "elect a real black man".
https://www.politico.com/story/2011/03/cain-im-the-real-black-man-052312
She's not a politician but this is also basically Candice Owens whole grift.
I feel a little like I'm picking on black figures here I'm sure there are some other examples in different backgrounds.
no, not at allWhat, are you telling me that my apology wasn't genuine? Who's telling who how they think, now?
I mean Herman Cain did absolutely the same thing "elect a real black man".
https://www.politico.com/story/2011/03/cain-im-the-real-black-man-052312
She's not a politician but this is also basically Candice Owens whole grift.
I feel a little like I'm picking on black figures here I'm sure there are some other examples in different backgrounds.
In absolute numbers, sure. White people are like 65% of the country. I don't see how what I am saying is untrue though. People of color are disproportionately more likely to benefit directly from policies like medicare for all than white people are and that is one way, of many that are needed, to get rid of the effects of racism.No, my point is that there are a lot more white working class then POC working class, so claiming that helping the working class helps POC more than white workers is disingenuous at best.
Absolutely.Kirblar said:You have to look at the wealth gap to see the depth of the problem w/ the WWC vs the non-white WC.
Income alone shows you there's a problem but actually does obscure how bad it is.
She just had a kid like 1 or 2 years ago. I don't think she's shown an interest in running right now, but I agree that she'd be a really strong candidate.I really want Tammy Duckworth to run, but can she? Was she born on a military base in Thailand?
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/09/18/upshot/black-white-wealth-gap-perceptions.html
https://www.forbes.com/sites/briant...americas-most-pressing-epidemic/#201483987a48
http://apps.urban.org/features/wealth-inequality-charts/
A good one here to showcase this is to look at chart 3 in the third link, and swap to the Median instead of the average.
You know considering Bernie's "Vote for me I'm a woman" jab was an obvious take that towards Hillary, I'm starting to think that we should probably be asking who on the Democrat's side pull this.
Without the surprise pregnancy I'm pretty sure she'd be in the race this year.She just had a kid like 1 or 2 years ago. I don't think she's shown an interest in running right now, but I agree that she'd be a really strong candidate.
Median will give you the "50% of people are under this bar" line, which will be including your working-class/lower class numbers. (economics/stats definition, not socialist.)None of these seem to compare working class demographics, just racial demographics as a whole, tho.
no, not at all
just tying back to my earlier discussion about whether or not this discussion was worthy of more effort than meme image response or not
your apology was fine. in this back and forth where you have
1. not been able to distinguish been editorial writing and quote from a person
2. selectively highlighted parts of a quote to wildly take it out of context and (intentionally?) misinterpret it
3. accused me of lying about my views
your apology was probably your only good post
at least my posts were of sufficient quality where i don't feel the need to apologize for any single one of themAnd you haven't had any good posts. So I guess that puts me ahead. Cool.
at least my posts were of sufficient quality where i don't feel the need to apologize for any single one of them
That Obama speech was designed to placate regressive whites who were scared by Wright. I doubt Obama himself believed the words coming out of his mouth, let alone most PoC.
You know considering Bernie's "Vote for me I'm a woman" jab was an obvious take that towards Hillary, I'm starting to think that we should probably be asking who on the Democrat's side pull this.
It may not be about identity in the sense of tokenism(unless it was clearly stated) but about having representation and a voice for a minority over leftist ideological purity.There was a small stink up when AOC endorsed a white male progressive over a lesbian Native American. Some wanted AOC to endorse the latter because of her identity, not her policies.
I think alot of people see this in Kamala. After her announcement there was a lot of black people coming out against her with the shes not the candidate for PoCs like she claims. I dont know if she implied that or even if the accusations were true but their was certainly that sentiment.
It may not be about identity in the sense of tokenism(unless it was clearly stated) but about having representation and a voice for a minority over leftist ideological purity.
So essentially, it's just projecting their dislike of a politician by claiming he/she is not "real" "true" or some other nonsense.
Joy. :|
it was about having representation, but that's not all what AOC and Bernie were for. Representation matters to them, but also policies that support the working class such as Medicare for all. Dvaids' primary opponent supported more progressive policies, so Bernie and AOC endorsed and campaigned for him.It may not be about identity in the sense of tokenism(unless it was clearly stated) but about having representation and a voice for a minority over leftist ideological purity.
In context of Bernie's quote:Tokenism is exactly the form of identity politics Bernie and AOC criticize, with AOC being better at expressing it.
It doesn't appear he wants diversity of thought or approach it's got to be progressive to his particular agenda(or it's not a progressive agenda according to the Bernie purity) and it seems AOC feels the same way. That diversity has to serve their ideological ends. That's how it seems to appear racist. More so than the strawman he tries to put it on with the unnamed "opponents".
Yes, a standard needs to be in place to differentiate parties and such. And I don't believe Bernie or AOC are racist. Indigenous people are a very small minority in the USA and it's probably difficult enough to get to a position to be an elected representative without having to overcome even more hurdles within a party. That's more what I'm getting at. It can't always be about achieving a specific ideological standard if it means suppressing an underrepresented minority. They shouldn't go unchallenged either. It's a fine balance that needs to be found and maintained between allowing them the opportunity, allowing them to be challenged and not unnecessarily hindering. And hindering by the more popular and well known and connected members of a party to interfere in a race outside their district seems an unfair challenge to place on on them.All political parties or movements are in pursuit of some sort of end, whether ideological, financial, power for power's sake, etc. If their primary interest was ideological diversity, rather than ideological diversity being something they have to put up with to win in different regions, then they wouldn't be parties or movements in the first place.
There was a small stink up when AOC endorsed a white male progressive over a lesbian Native American. Some wanted AOC to endorse the latter because of her identity, not her policies.
And yet she chose to endorse and campaign for the other guySharice appears to be everything AOC would want in a candidate so why put yourself in a spot to choose between two progressives in the first place? Doing this could make an enemy in congress from another progressive and for what?
Exactly. If it's not race that was the motivator in this case then it appears that it's some small ideological purity at the expense of indigenous representation.Sharice appears to be everything AOC would want in a candidate so why put yourself in a spot to choose between two progressives in the first place? Doing this could make an enemy in congress from another progressive and for what?
If sharice won't cooperate for that reason, isn't that on her, not AOC?Who was the other guy? What made him better than her? Nor does this address the fact she's going to have a tougher time getting Sharice on board for bills or leadership votes from a fellow progressive considering Sharice won the general.
Exactly. If it's not race that was the motivator in this case then it appears that it's some small ideological purity at the expense of minority representation.
If sharice won't cooperate for that reason, isn't that on her, not AOC?
And that leads back to to Bernie's statement and the appearance that he is really the one that wants token followers and not his "opponents".I think the dude was on Team Bernie, which would explain things. I don't know for sure because I don't remember his name.
I think the dude was on Team Bernie, which would explain things. I don't know for sure because I don't remember his name.
Who was the other guy? What made him better than her? Nor does this address the fact she's going to have a tougher time getting Sharice on board for bills or leadership votes from a fellow progressive considering Sharice won the general.
The Democratic race in KS-03 featured a debate over what exactly the Democratic Party should look like. Welder ran to the left of Davids, touting an unabashedly progressive platform that included Medicare-for-all, debt-free college, and a $15 minimum wage. Sanders and rising progressive star Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez campaigned for Welder in the runup to Tuesday's primary.
The ghosts of the 2016 presidential election are impossible to ignore. In Tuesday's primary, we'll see a left-leaning male candidate preaching a "radical" message versus a highly qualified woman running on a more moderate platform, both with the chance to defeat a cartoon villain everyone seems to hate.