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Deleted member 8593

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
27,176
Funny how I can relate to many sentiments expressed in the text but completely disagree with the arguments that are raised but never fully developed or dragged to their most unconvincing conclusions. This mostly highlights the importance of editors but maybe also that the author should probably stick to making games rather than writing about them. ;) Paratopic is infinitely more interesting and worthwhile than these unstructured treatises on... something.

However, it takes a special kind of skill to really get under people's skin like this and he likes STALKER so it's okay.
 

hanmik

Editor/Writer at Popaco.dk
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
1,436
It was also very long - So I skipped a lot near the end where I felt like I got the point.
I noticed now after searching that Gears 5 was mentioned near the end.

I don't feel I need to read it like an academic paper to agree with the general sentiment.

you wrote

This article took the words out of the mouth. I agree with it 100%.
This is the reason I'm mostly drawn to indie to mid-sized games.

I just think that if I agreed 100% with an article/blog I would have read all of it.. like 100% of it.
 

Flipmenex

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,132
Just want to say that "Prestige Games" is the dumbest thing i've heard in a long time.

Carry on.
 

dude

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,649
Tel Aviv
you wrote
I just think that if I agreed 100% with an article/blog I would have read all of it.. like 100% of it.
OK..? I'm not sure I get the value of this gotcha. I exaggerated because I wanted to enthusiastically agree with the overall point of the article, because this is something I've been thinking about for a while now. I'm guilty of not using "100%" in a literal sense, I'm fine with it.
 

Sense

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,551
Going through and really disagree.

Nearly every story at this point is derived or inspired by elsewhere by now. This isn't just strictly games but nearly every medium out there. There's complete over saturation that at some point, the plot will hit the same story beats found elsewhere but at a slight different concept. What makes the stories now is purely execution. Predicting the outcome does not make it a poor story, It's whether the game is able to sell the moments in which it was earned and it's a huge reason why I think spoiler culture is terrible in that people put way too much emphasis on not being spoiled on the large plot points rather than focus on the smaller moments in general and how well everything is put together.

So now the article goes on to this particular part with whether moments are earned or not with
But it doesn't even explain how it fails to do this in anyway just being a surface level comment which happens frequently throughout. What parts did the story copy from another medium and why did it work in the previously in which the developers failed this time around and how it could have been done instead. Article does none of this with just cheap shots at the particular games without explaining further.

The whole Jock/Nerd talk that follows straight after seriously reads like a persecution complex and hypocrisy. In making one huge assumption that people haven't explored every other game, film or TV show enough for that matter.


Playstation itself was a system that lent itself huge amount of audiences of both varieties that labeling a few stylized games does not mean it was centered around kids. It's one of the reasons why it was such a popular system at the time. The best selling games on PS1 included Gran Turismo, Tomb Raider, Tekken, MGS. PS1 also had other games like Syphon Filter, Twisted Metal, Silent Hill, Resident Evil etc. PS2 went even more heavy in this regard. It's the point that Playstation themselves didn't suddenly out of nowhere wanted to attract an audience that was interested in realistic games when they already had a system that already did that and was expanding in this part for a long while. I mean, really, Best PS2 selling games include GTA, MGS, Tekken God of War etc. That's what defined the system so PS3 was a natural progression of PS2 focusing on more realistic games when that is what was drawing people to their system.


I'm just quoting this particular segment but it's a discussion of Uncharted series in which UC2 is described as a mistake. Very telling that UC1 is clearly the weakest of the series as a whole in which that the encounter designs are generally way to repetitive, there's not enough good pacing and unique local and settings to keep player interest going. In that regard, UC2 wasn't a mistake when it heavily radically improved on the original in huge way. Encounters drastically improved, set pieces were much more interesting to react. Camera Control or even slight restriction does not mean total control is taken away from a game. It's a massive fallacy people have when it comes to video games. Plenty of games out there ranging from different genres have different fixed perspectives and fixed perspectives have their own uses whether it's for gameplay or story. UC get's criticized for this a lot but there are plenty of these moments which at least gives players control particular during setpieces which a lot of games do as a quick time event or cutscene. There's a noticeable progression with each game where Naughty Dog themselves have strive towards in giving players more control during any form of action sequences. I watched a GDC talk from ND about 1-2 months ago which was talking specifically about Lost Legacy in regards to the Elephant ride which happens. They go to great lengths to designing such a level and explore various different levels of controls to give to the player and it's a balancing act between believability, design and story. You may wish to the game to feel "gamey and retain control over everything at all time which is something developers clearly explore but not everyone feels the same way and appreciates carefully thought out moments and would take slight restriction over a particular moment if it meant overall better experience. Like, even if you weren't particularly restricted, how would those moments be enhanced with the control except take the players views away from the particular moment of what is happening? It just doesn't make sense in the same reason why even the best games described still have cut-scenes which take complete control away because it requires players to be fixated on a particular moment and point in time.

I'm not even going to discuss further about the story except it's clearly a pulpy action adventure type game that clearly doesn't take itself seriously in the same way that Indiana Jones has the most ridiculous premises which was clearly the inspiration and that's even more grounded and takes itself even more seriously in a lot of ways and that goes for a massive amounts of action films which have insane scenarios and people have to use the suspension of disbelief otherwise you would never get through any of them. Not sure that's a dock against it being a good action game.


Most of the developers who initially made these games likely never knew they would eventually went on to make critically acclaimed games because there's no set definition of what a prestige game is and the article itself can't even explain this either. Author forcing their own subjective views of the quality of the games and then trying to assume that that's the kind of view the company has at large is the worst kind of premise or take one can have.

And then there's this kind of garbage comment.

I mean really?



Studio accusations of sexual harassment and assault and crunch are terrible, but this has absolutely nothing to do with the premise of the article itself more than it is about making cheap negative points to add on to and it's disgusting the way actual working condition problems are framed in this particular way.

Just reading through the rest of the article itself is just so damn stupid. In fact, the praise in Gears 5 in the article is fucking weird in relation to the story given how predictable the plot beats are that it beats the players over the head for 8 hours that it criticizes other games for.

Just other quotes I'm picking out on


Gears has one of the most satisfying TPS mechanics but it's not the only game with subtle mechanics and details and neither is it perfect either (I'd say melee could use more work). There's a huge amount of details that goes into the the gameplay mechanics that players likely aren't even aware of until it's mentioned that makes up the experience people take for granted example, Particular games where you use melee hit after certain health fluidly transitions using animation if hitting the right button after which sets up execution head shot kills which makes for satisfying game-play which does two things, gives players close shot of the enemy face and the feedback while also knowing 100% kill happens. There's plenty of others which make up for the experience.

I'm not even sure how this could even be claimed.

However, this quote is probably my most despised word I've come across plenty of times.


About the most worthless kind of critique one can make of a game. I'm not even sure how anyone can even agree with much of the points of what was said in it.

Yeah. Goes to great lengths to accuse others of doing this and then goes around and doing the exact same thing spending so much time trying to convince why one set of games is awful while the other is great.
Great points. I am surprised you gave such detailed critique because it doesn't really deserve it imo. throwing in random unrelated shit like 360 being more powerful than PS3, emoji movie, naughty dog studio accusations etc... just makes it hard to take him or his point seriously.
 

CaviarMeths

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,655
Western Canada
But that does describe a lot of the games he talked about?
Your mileage may vary of course, but I think the kind of game that frequently takes control away from the player to show off a setpiece is that kind of game, yeah. But again, I don't think story, its originality, or even how seriously it takes itself is really all that important. What's more important is how the story is told. To use an example from the article, I agree that The Last of Us is a very derivative story, and I would say that its gameplay largely exists to get you from one part of the story to the next, but I actually liked the story in The Last of Us. Its narrative was effective and I cared about Joel and Ellie enough to follow them through it and emotionally respond to it. On the other hand, I disagree quite a lot on the Uncharted 2 section. I mean sure, the game is all about setpieces, but those setpieces are amazingly designed and the game itself is a tightly-paced adventure. It's masterful, and the story never tries to get in the way of your fun. I didn't get any vibes of "prestige" as the author describes it from that game. It get more of the vibe that the author got from Gears 5 - it's "lean" and everything that's in there should be there.

I do wish that more video game stories would take advantage of the medium. Games are unique in the way that they're highly interactive and allow for 'emergent storytelling' through its gameplay systems. Unfortunately, a lot of the most highly praised video game stories would work just as well as a film or TV series. That's doesn't necessarily mean the stories are bad, but it is a bit of a lost opportunity.
 

Hero

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,834
While I think the tone can definitely be seen as off-putting and there's some questionable arguments, I can agree to a point. I've become increasingly bored with AAA video games that look like they'd be fun movies to watch but only okay to play. I could never get into the Uncharted series because it was just setpiece after setpiece. I liked Last of Us for its survival horror elements but the story was definitely predictable, especially when the game starts out with fridging Joel's daughter. I'm also really done with the male protagonist learning to be a father trope because it's not new, exciting, or interesting. Where are the games about being a mom? That's something I'm more interested in experiencing.

The other thing is skill trees and RPG mechanics in genres that probably don't need it. God of War was especially egregious in this regard. Having colored loot, a crafting mechanic, and stats/modifiers just detracted me from the game and story.
 

TyraZaurus

Member
Nov 6, 2017
4,457
Your mileage may vary of course, but I think the kind of game that frequently takes control away from the player to show off a setpiece is that kind of game, yeah. But again, I don't think story, its originality, or even how seriously it takes itself is really all that important. What's more important is how the story is told. To use an example from the article, I agree that The Last of Us is a very derivative story, and I would say that its gameplay largely exists to get you from one part of the story to the next, but I actually liked the story in The Last of Us. Its narrative was effective and I cared about Joel and Ellie enough to follow them through it and emotionally respond to it. On the other hand, I disagree quite a lot on the Uncharted 2 section. I mean sure, the game is all about setpieces, but those setpieces are amazingly designed and the game itself is a tightly-paced adventure. It's masterful, and the story never tries to get in the way of your fun. I didn't get any vibes of "prestige" as the author describes it from that game. It get more of the vibe that the author got from Gears 5 - it's "lean" and everything that's in there should be there.

I do wish that more video game stories would take advantage of the medium. Games are unique in the way that they're highly interactive and allow for 'emergent storytelling' through its gameplay systems. Unfortunately, a lot of the most highly praised video game stories would work just as well as a film or TV series. That's doesn't necessarily mean the stories are bad, but it is a bit of a lost opportunity.

That's where I'm at. The Last of Us is a perfectly good story, but as a game, I find it lacking.
 

Deleted member 18161

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,805
I have to admit I'm tired of linear, third person triple a games where control is often taken away from you in order to tell a story. I have Gears 5 essentially for free and I can't bring myself to start it. Someone could hand my TLOU II for free and I wouldn't play it and that's from the perspective of someone who loved the first four Gears games aswell as TLOU and the Uncharted Trilogy. I just find the formula tired and bland after all those sorts of games last gen and the beginning of this gen.

The whole triple a open World checkbox games are starting to feel the same for me too.

These days I'm much more likely to play Japanese and indie games where the main focus seems to be on gameplay mechanics and level design over pushing graphical fidelity and telling a story which more often than not is terrible.
 

Psychonaut

Member
Jan 11, 2018
3,207
So... besides the fact that the entire piece is written in an extremely off-putting "holier than thou" tone, it adopts this tone to discuss a topic that... no one gives a shit about anymore. Seriously, when was the last time you saw someone insist that games are art? That's what the entire article is predicated on-- the supposition that gamers desperately want their hobby to be considered art. But I haven't seen that type of rhetoric in a long time. The last time that conversation was had in earnest was (as the author notes) the release of Bioshock Infinite. My guy, we've come a long way since this 6 year old talking point.

As far as I can see, this article offers no constructive criticism either. It's literally just "games and players are dumber than they think they are, I'm smart and watch movies." Like... okay? What can they do differently? What's the alternative to prestige games, and how do they do things better? There's a lot of "this thing is good/bad and I'm not going to explain why" going on, which is just poor criticism. Bad take city out here.
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,712
I'm also really done with the male protagonist learning to be a father trope because it's not new, exciting, or interesting. Where are the games about being a mom? That's something I'm more interested in experiencing.
Well, look at the lead devs making the games.
 

Papacheeks

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,620
Watertown, NY
.I'm also really done with the male protagonist learning to be a father trope because it's not new, exciting, or interesting. Where are the games about being a mom? That's something I'm more interested in experiencing.
Well, look at the lead devs making the games.
[/QUOTE]

Though not the focus it was in god of war from two different perspectives. One from Faye, and one from Freya. One tried to shield her child by putting a enchantment on them so they could never be hurt. But all she did was make him go insane, because he couldn't feel anything.

The other knew her time would be short and wanted a better life for her son and to have a relationship with his father.
 

CaviarMeths

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,655
Western Canada
While I think the tone can definitely be seen as off-putting and there's some questionable arguments, I can agree to a point. I've become increasingly bored with AAA video games that look like they'd be fun movies to watch but only okay to play. I could never get into the Uncharted series because it was just setpiece after setpiece. I liked Last of Us for its survival horror elements but the story was definitely predictable, especially when the game starts out with fridging Joel's daughter. I'm also really done with the male protagonist learning to be a father trope because it's not new, exciting, or interesting. Where are the games about being a mom? That's something I'm more interested in experiencing.

The other thing is skill trees and RPG mechanics in genres that probably don't need it. God of War was especially egregious in this regard. Having colored loot, a crafting mechanic, and stats/modifiers just detracted me from the game and story.
I think you're missing out a bit on Uncharted. I'm very bored of AAA games, generally speaking, but Uncharted games still do a good job of taking me on an adventure. I will freely admit to playing them on easy mode though!

I think I mentioned this on Discord a few times, but yeah, I'm also tired of the "sad dad" trope. I don't need dead wives and dead kids in every game with a 40-something protagonist. And I just want to play a game where your parents are supportive and happy for you, and don't die or get revealed as the big bad villain all along. Looking at you, every JRPG ever.
 

NecroTechno

Member
Oct 25, 2017
296
geohell
I agree with a lot of what is described in that article - it articulated some thoughts that I've had into a much more structured manner. That said, I'm surprised by some of the authors comments regarding cultural literacy. For someone who at least comes across as relatively thoughtful, they should have taken the time to try and describe why there is a trend of cultural illiteracy.

I certainly know I'm guilty of it. I don't watch a lot of movies, recent or otherwise, so my understanding of film history, for example, is stunted. But putting the phrase "cultural literacy" out in the open with no further explanation comes off as blaming the audience. I think it's really important to acknowledge that, at least in the English-speaking world (the only cultural sphere that I am engaged with), most media is produced with the goal of profit first and artistic expression second, so of course audiences are going to be less used to complex media analysis.
 

TyraZaurus

Member
Nov 6, 2017
4,457
Though not the focus it was in god of war from two different perspectives. One from Faye, and one from Freya. One tried to shield her child by putting a enchantment on them so they could never be hurt. But all she did was make him go insane, because he couldn't feel anything.

The other knew her time would be short and wanted a better life for her son and to have a relationship with his father.

And yet neither of them are playable and one is, to my knowledge, dead before the story starts
 

TyraZaurus

Member
Nov 6, 2017
4,457
I mean Cory didn't keep it a secret that the game was why it was because of his experiences of being a dad.

Maybe, but it doesn't really explore what it's like to be a mom, it just has decisions mothers make. Faye is a character who exists to influence Kratos and his son's journey, not a character in her own right.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,393
Read the article, and still not really sure what his point is. Yes, a lot of games borrow directly from movies, and so do a lot of the games he praises. These days, everything borrows from everything, and not every game needs to be ground breaking.

Also I don't like his point that people shouldn't judge games by their perception. Objectivity when critiquing something like video games (or any art) is not only impossible, but actually unconstructive. The context in which works of art are produced are just as important, and will always color how you experience it as a reviewer or as a consumer. And that's part of the beauty. Art is always able to be reanalyzed within a new context as time goes on, making it worth revisiting.
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,712
Maybe, but it doesn't really explore what it's like to be a mom, it just has decisions mothers make. Faye is a character who exists to influence Kratos and his son's journey, not a character in her own right.
Right...it's not a mom game. I would like to see more of those too, but that won't happen until we have some women lead devs that are moms.
 

IIFloodyII

Member
Oct 26, 2017
24,059
Well, look at the lead devs making the games.


Though not the focus it was in god of war from two different perspectives. One from Faye, and one from Freya. One tried to shield her child by putting a enchantment on them so they could never be hurt. But all she did was make him go insane, because he couldn't feel anything.

The other knew her time would be short and wanted a better life for her son and to have a relationship with his father.
I don't think Faye is so noble, she cares about Atrues and probably Kratos too, but I don't think her goal is to give Atrues a better life, but to get revenge on the Norse gods. Though way too spoilery to really go into here.
 

TyraZaurus

Member
Nov 6, 2017
4,457
Because they are doing stuff that is influential to them. Cory has the experience of being a dad and that influenced him.

Okay? The thing I'm saying is nothing is forcing them to tell only one kind of story. Devs already shown willingness to step outside of their personal experience for perspective, this is just another way they could.

And if this dev wants to make a story about being a dad based on his own experience, that's fine. But I don't think it's unwarranted for us, as people reacting to the product, to think that God of War does anything particularly new. Hell, Devil May Cry 5 has similar themes of fatherhood and legacies and destiny, and it does that while being much better as an actual action game. God of War tells a very typical story at the cost of its gameplay, but for some reason it's held up as a great achievement.
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,712
Hell, Devil May Cry 5 has similar themes of fatherhood and legacies and destiny, and it does that while being much better as an actual action game. God of War tells a very typical story at the cost of its gameplay, but for some reason it's held up as a great achievement.
I mean that comes down to opinion. I'm not into dmc, so idk. I don't think GoW was the most amazing story ever, but it's easy to see the praise. I ultimately just want games that have a passion behind them since those are usually the best.
 

IIFloodyII

Member
Oct 26, 2017
24,059
Okay? The thing I'm saying is nothing is forcing them to tell only one kind of story. Devs already shown willingness to step outside of their personal experience for perspective, this is just another way they could.

And if this dev wants to make a story about being a dad based on his own experience, that's fine. But I don't think it's unwarranted for us, as people reacting to the product, to think that God of War does anything particularly new. Hell, Devil May Cry 5 has similar themes of fatherhood and legacies and destiny, and it does that while being much better as an actual action game. God of War tells a very typical story at the cost of its gameplay, but for some reason it's held up as a great achievement.
God of War has exceptional gameplay. Some of the best melee based combat of the gen. How does it suffer due to it's story, which is almost completely in the background?
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,712
I think prestige is a specific game format though. There are plenty of highly rated, even overrated games out there. Like I wrote an article about Breath of the Wild and some issues I had with its open world structure (I revisited those when telling everyone how much I loved Days Gone). I think Breath of the Wild is overrated. I wouldn't call it a prestige game.

Originally I was going to call them Sad Dad Games because of John Marsden, Max Payne, Kratos, Bioshock Guy, and so on, but I felt like the new Tomb Raider games were going that route too, especially Shadow of the Tomb Raider, and that's a game where the dad is dead and the daughter is sad, so I couldn't call them sad dad games.
Just saw this post...but bioshock guy....jack, isn't even a dad. Unless you mean andrew ryan.
 
Mar 8, 2018
1,161
Is Prestige Games an actual term? Or it was made up for this article?

It wasn't made up for this blog post. I've been describing a lot of Sony 1st party games as "Sony Prestige Games" or "Sony prestige style" for a few years now. I think it's an idea that's been floating out there ever since Sony started publishing a bunch of high budget games with similar hooks.
 

TyraZaurus

Member
Nov 6, 2017
4,457
God of War has exceptional gameplay. Some of the best melee based combat of the gen. How does it suffer due to it's story, which is almost completely in the background?

The story is more focused on being cinematic. The gameplay is shallow and doesn't have the depth and freedom that other action titles offer. You're more or less limited to the few options the game provides you, which is in sharp contrast to the weapon variety offered by even past titles in the series. There's also a lack of unique bosses, compared to other character action titles.
 

Hero

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,834
God of War has exceptional gameplay. Some of the best melee based combat of the gen. How does it suffer due to it's story, which is almost completely in the background?

Kratos to his son: We must be better.
Also Kratos: *murders everyone*

For me there was a strong dissonance from what the story was trying to tell and what the game was making us do. Especially the way the last boss fight ends. Yuck.
 

MarcelRguez

Member
Nov 7, 2018
2,418
In that case, it really isn't even much of a "sad dad" game, considering booker doesn't know until the end.
The entire game focuses on the Comstock-Elizabeth/Booker-Anna relationship, though. I don't think the player not being aware of Booker losing a child matters that much when it colors his entire character and reframes his relationship with Elizabeth after the reveals.
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,712
The gameplay is shallow and doesn't have the depth and freedom that other action titles offer.
giphy.gif
 

IIFloodyII

Member
Oct 26, 2017
24,059
The story is more focused on being cinematic. The gameplay is shallow and doesn't have the depth and freedom that other action titles offer. You're more or less limited to the few options the game provides you, which is in sharp contrast to the weapon variety offered by even past titles in the series. There's also a lack of unique bosses, compared to other character action titles.
God of War has always been cinematic, the story is almost nonexistent, it's almost entirely character driven. The gameplay is shallow how and freedom compared to what? Be specific, instead of saying nothing.
Limited options with more depth to them isn't a bad thing, the Leviathan Axe is as good as any weapon in other action titles and the other weapons are good too, with plenty of option, as is the Boy.

The bosses are lacking though.
 

electricblue

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,991
Is Prestige Games an actual term? Or it was made up for this article?

No it's not a thing. Nobody is making games to lose money, it would be suicide to do so. Even in movies its less of a thing to see a true 'prestige picture'
You could make an argument for Death Stranding as Sony does not seem to give a single fuck what Kojima does, but even here it doesn't quite fit as the game is sure to be a commercial success no matter what it is. Games awards are just not a thing anybody cares about in such a way that they are willing to lose money to win them.
 

TheModestGun

Banned
Dec 5, 2017
3,781
The writer has a long history of console warring. I knew he'd take shots at Sony before reading that article.

And boy, I was right. People rarely change their habits.

The whole article:

The Last of Us - bad
Uncharted 2 - bad
Halo - great
Gears of War - really great
PS3 - bad
God of War - bad
Crackdown 3 - fucking amazing
L.O.L.

Why does this not surprise me.

Gears and Halo are great games, but to me it sounds like the authors actual axe to grind isn't The Last of Us or Sony games, but some weird sense of jealousy because Gears and Halo don't get the same kind of "recognition".

Oh well, his loss.

I'll enjoy great games regardless of where they come from.

Been loving Gears 5.

Crackdown 3 though... thats a bridge too far.
 

IIFloodyII

Member
Oct 26, 2017
24,059
Kratos to his son: We must be better.
Also Kratos: *murders everyone*

For me there was a strong dissonance from what the story was trying to tell and what the game was making us do. Especially the way the last boss fight ends. Yuck.
Almost everything you kill is long dead. Also Kratos never once said be better as in be a good person and don't kill, he straight says be merciless. Just be better to where we don't kill each other and his and his father and Zeus and his father.
 

TheModestGun

Banned
Dec 5, 2017
3,781
The story is more focused on being cinematic. The gameplay is shallow and doesn't have the depth and freedom that other action titles offer. You're more or less limited to the few options the game provides you, which is in sharp contrast to the weapon variety offered by even past titles in the series. There's also a lack of unique bosses, compared to other character action titles.
This is a horrible take. Anyone who has played more than an hour or two of the latest game will know that it ABSOLUTELY has depth and multiple ways to approach battles, and certainly more depth than the original trilogy.
 

Fancy Clown

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,409
The story is more focused on being cinematic. The gameplay is shallow and doesn't have the depth and freedom that other action titles offer. You're more or less limited to the few options the game provides you, which is in sharp contrast to the weapon variety offered by even past titles in the series. There's also a lack of unique bosses, compared to other character action titles.

I see a lot of people criticize lack of depth, or what can be more accurately called simplicity (or, even more generously, concision), but I don't want something like DMC in God of War. I like that the amount and complexity of combos is incredibly manageable, because to me the fun of action games comes more from positioning, reading enemy types, and deciding which strategy to go with, rather than from attempting to beat the systems of the game. So that of course is it's own form of depth, and can be seen in the many ways encounters can be played out, especially on higher difficulties.

It's the same thing with games like The Last of Us or Uncharted, I know they're not as "deep" as games like Splinter Cell or perhaps Gears of War, but I value the fluidity in which all its systems cohere (stealth/traversal/shooting/melee) and that they are refined to their simplest elements. It's also why I think RE4 is unmatched as an action game—it's mechanics are incredibly simple, but that's to its benefit as an action game. So when you throw the immediately pleasing tactility of the combat systems with an easily digestible narrative experience (thank god I don't have to scroll through menus full of long paragraphs of tiny text to get narrative, or listen to dozens of audio logs), and thrown in a fleshed out setting, you get a type of experience that I often find preferable to games that are—to my personal tastes—too needlessly, even arbitrarily, obtuse, complex, or (at worst) clunky. Gameplay and game system economy is just as valuable as narrative economy in my opinion. I think there are plenty of specific critiques that can be lobbed at God of War, TLOU, and Uncharted, but I will go to the mat any day to defend their basic principles and gameplay systems.
 
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