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‘Destiny 2’ And The Ethics Of Deleting Two Years Of Paid Content

Deleted member 1003

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Oct 25, 2017
10,638
Loud Wrong said:
And raids, and the menagerie, and weapon catalysts quests, and strikes, and crucible maps, and gambit maps, and dungeons.

The hilarious part is Bungie will bring content back later and it will be considered "new" content to justify the price of seasonal content.
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Losing some raids is a bummer but only saw an uptick in usage because of uncapped rewards.

Catalysts being removed is dumb and should be reintroduced as quickly as possible.

Strikes are kind of a meh, nothing to really grind for in strikes except XP.

The Menagerie is cool.

The gambits maps for the associated destinations are actually staying. Ironically we are losing maps for Dreaming City and Tangled Shore.

Crucible maps are also being removed from other destinations and good thing too because most have severe balance issues that date back to the game being 4v4 at one point. Most OG maps were never balanced for four additional players.

The Dungeons are staying, Prophecy being removed temporarily for some technical reason.

But I understand the concern.
 
Kyuuji

Kyuuji

The Favonius Fox
Member
Nov 8, 2017
32,925
Uh, sooo instead of removing content we paid for can I instead pay them to just remove Gambit completely?

..then move to block the account of everyone who's equipped Dredgen in D2..

..then delete Warlocks ... 👀 ...and Titans..

..then finally focus the new resources into the best class, and good cloaks.

Oh and bring back No Land Beyond.. you cowards.
 
Aurc

Aurc

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,894
mentha said:
lol guess you've not been around the D2 thread since you hopped off the wagon? There are plenty of us in there who are hyper critical of the game.
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The loudest and most prominent Destiny community posters (I'm not going to name names) are very adamant about shouting down critique, even when it's coming from their fellow players.
TheGhost said:
There is a difference between people in the community having gripes and say that one dude who had the Kermit the frog avatar that would come into every d1 thread and detail it. I defend the shit out of this game here.
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I at least stay out of threads that are meant for fans and active players (the OTs), and only make critical posts in the general threads that are meant for the forum as a whole to respond to. There is always news being posted about the IP, so I simply respond to that stuff.
 
piratethingy

piratethingy

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Oct 28, 2017
1,428
I'm not mad, they can do whatever they want with their game.

It does absolutely assure that I'll never return and will likely skip whatever form D3 eventually takes. I'm a lapsed player that's bought all available D2 content.
 
astro

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
57,569
I'm perfectly okay with their approach.

They simply cannot just build upon the game's install size, over and over, with the kind of AAA assets they use. It's not feasible. And as they want a unified player experience that they can cultivate and maintain, allowing piecemeal downloads wouldn't be possible.

This way, content rotates. Most people don't even play the stuff getting vaulted right now. For those who do, we will get more content and the old stuff will comeback around.

Seems fair to me.

For reference: I have paid for every single piece of Destiny content since D1 released, and spent money on MTs.
 
disco_potato

disco_potato

Member
Nov 16, 2017
3,145
svacina said:
And they couldn't keep up with the previous style seasonal updates without support from Acti, so I dunno what to tell you. D3 is not in the cards without putting D2 on life support for three years.
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They were sub 600 internal when they had outside help. You don't have to say anything, I'm just saying they have a huge studio that doesn't seem to be putting out huge studio content. As I stated before, it's probably STILL the engine/tools.
 
GattsuSama

GattsuSama

Member
Mar 12, 2020
1,761
If they take content away to rework and bring it back even with next gen graphics a few years from now, instead of a Destiny 3, then it is ok. But the content needs to come back, Bungie needs to communicate, and we need more than it just coming back. Like I said next gen upgrades for the content.
 
Basileus777

Basileus777

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,250
New Jersey
They've been handling all of the old content and onboarding of new players since New Light in such a terrible way, but I doubt this will be a good solution.
 
SuiQuan

SuiQuan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
885
Kazakhstan - soon
Started to play D2 recently again and was baffled by seemingly missing parts of the main campaign that I remember having played before. To me personally this is not what GAAS is. I like when games get bigger and bigger, their stories longer, their worlds and mission more extensive. This goes against it and thus kills all my desire to play D2 every again. For someone who plays and has been playing end-game content only this is a non-issue I presume, but personally it's a bummer.
 

Deleted member 11976

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Oct 27, 2017
7,585
Aurc said:
The loudest and most prominent Destiny community posters (I'm not going to name names) are very adamant about shouting down critique, even when it's coming from their fellow players.
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Eh, Sunsetting (for weapons and then armour) and the DCV topics have resulted in lots of heated discussions in the OT as well.
 
astro

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
57,569
SuiQuan said:
Started to play D2 recently again and was baffled by seemingly missing parts of the main campaign that I remember having played before. To me personally this is not what GAAS is. I like when games get bigger and bigger, their stories longer, their worlds and mission more extensive. This goes against it and thus kills all my desire to play D2 every again. For someone who plays and has been playing end-game content only this is a non-issue I presume, but personally it's a bummer.
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The issue is that every GaaS game that uses AAA assets like this will reset at a certain point with a sequel because it would be literally impossible to keep building upon it. The install size would balloon to hundreds of GBs...

It would also mean too much work, as they have said, to maintain and balance etc...

It was either a sequel or this. I would have preferred a sequel,, but this is also fine imo.

How else could they have done it?
 
svacina

svacina

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,458
SuiQuan said:
Started to play D2 recently again and was baffled by seemingly missing parts of the main campaign that I remember having played before. To me personally this is not what GAAS is. I like when games get bigger and bigger, their stories longer, their worlds and mission more extensive. This goes against it and thus kills all my desire to play D2 every again. For someone who plays and has been playing end-game content only this is a non-issue I presume, but personally it's a bummer.
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Nothing has been removed so far, you can access the legacy campaigns somewhere - I think from Amanda in the Hangar? TBF the game communicates this all very badly.
 
Loud Wrong

Loud Wrong

Member
Feb 24, 2020
15,239
2San said:
So the main campaign is not completely playable? Like the only improvement vanilla D2 made over D1. Yeah, I'm out of Destiny for good.
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The original campaign is definitely gone. I think there will be a new shorter one added, otherwise the game basically starts with the Cayde's death storyline.
 
JigglesBunny

JigglesBunny

Prophet of Truth
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
31,643
Chicago
The fact that so many members of the community keep trying to spin this as a universally good thing is wild to me. They're taking away content from you, they're not helping you or adding value.
 
Bold One

Bold One

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
18,911
disco_potato said:
900+ employees.
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Cleve

Cleve

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,022
I'm just at a loss as to how the old content is so hard to maintain? Why remove crucible maps? Why remove the old content? My only experience with long running games as a service is WoW, and it seemed to just keep moving forward gracefully until they rebuild the old world in cata, and other than that they just kept creating new content and left the old stuff there for the people that wanted to go back. Even FF14 has been out longer and did their D1 to D2 style reset with ARR, but since then has had no problem continuing to provide old and new content.

The way destiny presents old content is absolutely garbage, but that's a different issue.

Is the file size really a concern? Look at the size of every recent cod game, and half the other aaa games out there.
 
spam musubi

spam musubi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,413
svacina said:
Bro, I D1P'd the original D2 and then preordered every expansion along with a season pass.

I don't give a flying fuck.
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Same here. Most of that content no one actually plays. Public events on all those planets except for Mars are just dead. People always play the most relevant content that gives the best rewards. We've had that old content around for 2 years and we got our fill of it. This is a non issue.
 
AegonSnake

AegonSnake

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,566
Lol I just realized something. My $60 base game. $40 each for two expansions and another $40 for the annual pass are all gone. That's $180 before taxes that I dont have access to.

Did they at least make the rest of the paid content free?
 
astro

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
57,569
JigglesBunny said:
The fact that so many members of the community keep trying to spin this as a universally good thing is wild to me. They're taking away content from you, they're not helping you or adding value.
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How else could they do it without going for a sequel?

And if they made a sequel, they would be taking the while game away effectively.

Yeh you could go backline you can with D1, but it wouldn't mean anything fo the new game so would effectively be removed from the new game.
Pancracio17 said:
I wonder what makes it necessary for Destiny but not for other games like MMOs.
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Slayven said:
I mean Everquest just released their 23rd expansion and haven't Disney vaulted anything I know of
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They don't use AAA assets....
 

Deleted member 2172

Account closed at user request
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Oct 25, 2017
4,577
Another thread where all the people who don't play the game will point at this and be like ''yup see Destiny is a disaster''

Meanwhile the majority of folks playing Destiny 2 regularly nowadays understand why Bungie is doing this and is mostly alright with it.
 
astro

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
57,569
AegonSnake said:
Lol I just realized something. My $60 base game. $40 each for two expansions and another $40 for the annual pass are all gone. That's $180 before taxes that I dont have access to.

Did they at least make the rest of the paid content free?
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If they made a sequel instead and left ALL of that behind, including your character and gear etc... and moved onto D3 instead...

Honestly, how often would you log in to D2 to play all the content you paid for?
 

Jest

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,565
Komo said:
It clearly hasn't been a priority, and yes the limit was that they still needed to compile the entire game and all of its assets each time they wanted to test something, which was an issue with Destiny 1, and they said they had remedied these things with Destiny 2 but it seems that they actually didn't.

I'd assume this is a core engine issue and something that would require a rewrite to fix, which is something they could have done. Under activision, before destiny 2 launched, after they left activision? When they got 100m from NetEase.

The question is why didn't they actually fix the problem when they said they did.
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The problem that they said they fixed was the compiling which made it harder to release new content at a relatively quick pace. That's not the problem that they're saying they're addressing now as they've said it's the extensive size and complexity that's causing problems now.

Under Activision, the development direction was one where the current problems are negligible because they were contractually obligated to release new games. I can't imagine Activision would have been receptive to time and money spent on a problem that never actually develops. I.e. The steering wheel of a car shaking hard at 120mph isn't a problem *worth* fixing if you never drive over 65mph. The NetEase investment is speculated to be how Bungie was able to buy out of their Activision contract so depending on how true that is, that would change how viable it would be to spend that money towards fixing this particular issue.

There's reasons why most developers don't create and use their own proprietary engines and when companies *do* choose to do so, they run those engines until the wheels fall off. It's reportedly very complex, time consuming, and expensive to do. Mainline Elder Scrolls and non-isometric Fallout have used the same engine for years presumably for this reason. Bungie reportedly also used one engine for the entirety of their time on Halo (roughly 10 years) and at least planned to use Destiny's engine for the same amount of time.

So from everything that I've read over the years about Engine development (which is probably very very little in the grand scheme of things), it would seem like it's not that easy to just "fix" an Engine or build a new one.
 
Senator Toadstool

Senator Toadstool

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Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,651
potentially legal implications of deleting previously paid-for content from a video game?
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In the US have EULA ever been held unconscionable? because if not, you have no rights, you signed a contract.

I wonder if this would be a Klocek v. Gateway, Inc (good for consumers) or ProCD, Inc. v. Zeidenberg (not good for consumers) kind of case.
 
TheGhost

TheGhost

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,137
Long Island
JigglesBunny said:
The fact that so many members of the community keep trying to spin this as a universally good thing is wild to me. They're taking away content from you, they're not helping you or adding value.
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They are taking away shit I could care less about.

Titan?
Mercury?
Tako-3? Good riddance i say.

Giving me back Cosmodrome and Europa will make up for taking away shit I only play if they force me to do a mission there.
 

Deleted member 23158

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,091
FlikBlueLightning said:
Yes, the spectacular Red War campaign is leaving. Forsaken and Shadowkeep are staying.
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Loud Wrong said:
The original campaign is definitely gone. I think there will be a new shorter one added, otherwise the game basically starts with the Cayde's death storyline.
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Yeah, that's terrible. The Red War campaign has it's worth as a story campaign you may want to revisit at a later date (like the Halo campaigns). The same way you'd replay a Halo campaign.
 
Billfisto

Billfisto

Member
Oct 30, 2017
15,455
Canada
I don't understand how the game's file size has ballooned up so much. It's basically just the exact same assets arranged in a hundred slightly different ways.
 
AegonSnake

AegonSnake

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,566
astro said:
If they made a sequel instead and left ALL of that behind, including your character and gear etc... and moved onto D3 instead...

Honestly, how often would you log in to D2 to play all the content you paid for?
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i would still be able to play it whenever i wanted. now i cant play even if i wanted to.
 
Wein Cruz

Wein Cruz

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Oct 27, 2017
5,772
The craziest part about this is there are people that drink so deeply of the koolaid that they defend bungie here.

Considering all the money they made off this game the fact that they are making this the consumer's problem is nuts.
 
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