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Sloane Ranger

Member
Oct 27, 2017
631
New Albany
Its one cab driver. How many cab drivers will we see - could be that all different types of people are represented.

If not - then yeah - that is stereotypical.

Maybe wait and see?
 

stupei

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,801
Post I replied to just left me with impression that you think that this taxi driver is only POC in the trailer, when in fact there is a lots of POC's in trailer overall. In different social castes and occupations. From normal-ish civies to punks to store keepers to (like this thread is about) taxi drivers to corporate, at least.

What has you concerned after seeing screenshots?

Also how people don't notice that corporate woman in meeting room scene or, what looks like to me, Asian woman working for Corporate and getting out of flying car in another scene? Then there is just a lots of backdrop POC's in basically every scene shown.

I definitely never meant to imply there were no other people of color in the trailer. I was responding to someone who suggested everyone was overreacting to one image by pointing out that obviously these concerns are based on a prior context, not only one image.

After rereading, I can see how by phrasing in my original post was confusing, that's my bad, but I think this misses the point. The concern isn't that no people of color exist, obviously, as the entire thread is about the prominent existence of one. The concern, as shown in this image and from the anecdote of someone who played it saying they felt there was also a rather stereotypical Mexican character, is that the game might rely heavily on racial stereotypes, particularly for ethnic groups the developers might have less direct experience with.

The black boxer, for instance, didn't make me roll my eyes nearly as much, even though that is also something of a stereotype, because I noticed other prominent black characters on a first viewing and I also trust them to know more about how to write black characters than even more underrepresented minority groups.

Being a dev must be extremely hard. In addition to all the animations, visuals, coding, gamedesign, storywriting etc. you also have to think carefully how to represent every group of people (not even in your final game, but even in the trailers) so noone gets upset.

If their past games demonstrated they were good at diverse representation, then people would use that to give them a benefit of the doubt instead of worrying about the worst possible outcome based on a trailer. If only there was some way they could have controlled how people think of their ability to represent diversity. If only they could have controlled the things that were in their past games.
 

Oynox

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
884
His turban is distinctly of Sikh religion. Plus his last name Narayanan is of (south) Indian origin. With respect, I am surprised that this is even a question.
I see. I did not even notice his name and thought that there are other people wearing turbans as well. But another user explained to me, why they most likely are Sikh.
 

Kumquat

Member
Jan 23, 2018
790
I really hate to say it but the stereotype exists for a reason. As someone who has taken many cabs in my life it really is crazy just how many of them have been Indian. Anectdotal I know but if you ever watch the Youtube channel Minority Mindset he explains about why Indians tend to gravitate to it.
 

FrequentFlyer

Banned
Dec 3, 2017
1,273
If their past games demonstrated they were good at diverse representation, then people would use that to give them a benefit of the doubt instead of worrying about the worst possible outcome based on a trailer. If only there was some way they could have controlled how people think of their ability to represent diversity. If only they could have controlled the things that were in their past games.[/B]

Please talk for yourself instead of wrongly implying your opinion somehow represents some commonly accepted facts.

*edit* my own post should be unbolded but cant change on phone right now
 

Deleted member 11002

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
381
User Banned (3 Days): Dismissive attitude towards concerns over representation and diversity. History of similar behaviour.
You don't need context to describe an Indian cab driver. He might just be a cab driver that happens to be Indian. That's the context and there's nothing wrong with it
 

stupei

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,801
Please talk for yourself instead of wrongly implying your opinion somehow represents some commonly accepted facts.

*edit* my own post should be unbolded but cant change on phone right now

I'm sorry, I didn't think I would need to explain that when referring to a specific opinion, I was only talking about the people who hold that opinion. I'm responding to someone who does not share that opinion. Was I somehow transferring this belief onto them, or is my meaning obviously clear enough that I didn't need to clarify I did not mean all people who have ever lived when I said "people" when directly referring to a behavior demonstrated in this thread?
 
Oct 27, 2017
12,329
There's a dichotomy of this project where Cyberpunk is meant to be a commentary on class systems, racial and economic divide, etc etc so when they put a Indian in a cab it isn't due to ignorance or malice - it's mean to show that with all the advancements in technology, shit is still ultimately the same or worse.
 

Poj

Banned
Nov 4, 2017
427
How do Indians feel about Dhalsim? (honest question)
Street Fighter 2 came out when I was just a kid. At the time, I was awed that a video game had an Indian person in it. And on top of that, you could play a stage in India! The elephants, the architecture, etc. It was pretty cool. Now, I still feel fine with Dhalsim. I've heard some people say the whole "yoga" thing is offensive. It's not. Yoga is a part of Indian history and culture. The same way karate and sumo is a part of Japan.
 

NoKisum

Member
Nov 11, 2017
4,913
DMV Area, USA
I watched that trailer like five times, and I'm just now noticing the cab scene.

The way the trailer was cut, it was definitely one of those "blink and you miss it" moments.
 

airjoca

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
805
Portugal
Wait and see I guess.

It's 2077, should've been self-driving cabs by then?

Maybe it's one of these:

JohnnyCab.jpg
 

Deleted member 17210

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,569
How do Indians feel about Dhalsim? (honest question)
I remember back in high school when SF2 came out, a couple brown girls were talking about how cool it was that you could play as an Indian person. At the time, I was more surprised at teenage girls wanting to play a fighting video game as that wasn't common.

I think you will find a variety of answers. I'm not Indian but my wife is and she doesn't care that much about Indian people being represented in Western media. For some people it's really important, for others it isn't.
 

Budi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,889
Finland
Now finally a "controversy" surrounding the game that's worthy of a discussion. Those "too bright and colorfoul" and "it's a first person shooter, I'm out!" topics were quite tiresome and silly.

I saw someone else mention this earlier too, in Twitter I think. I personally couldn't have linked this stereotype specifically to Indians. As it's not one here and in the US media I've thought it's just pretty much anyone with a foreign background and not any specific ethnicity. Which could come from my own ignorance from not recognizing different ethnicities that well, or the media doesn't really clue people in.

The game does seem to have wide variety of different people with different ethnic backgrounds (makes sense), I would assume they also fill many different roles. I don't know how common is it to see a similar taxi in the game and if you get to interact with the drivers. But I must say this scene/scenario in the trailer was something that really stood out to me and was quite memorable. It's one of those clips where I really wanted to know more, about the dudes in the back but specifically about the driver. More so after learning that it's a battle cab, which sounds quite rad. Hopefully they flesh out the character in the game and he isn't just a stereotype as a window dressing as I'd want to know more of him.
I have never seen Finnish characters in these video games and we make lots of games
Kati Outinen (recurring actor in Kaurismäki films) plays the character of Ritva Tuomivaara in Wolfenstein 2, not a big part though. Haven't played the game myself, only watched the clip. But it was cool to have her there.
lmao, has anyone in CDPR interacted with anyone non-white? Stereotyping multiple ethnic groups in the same game is either intentional, or incredibly tone deaf.
They have POC in their dev team, more than just Pondsmith. So I'm pretty sure they have.
 
Last edited:

Deleted member 37739

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 8, 2018
908
Honestly, the art direction of the game didn't set me on fire, at all, though I'm not terribly familiar with the source material and appreciate this is maybe an accurate interpretation of the original tabletop. That said, Iit seemed to me like a world where none of the current social turmoil over representation (especially gender) seemed to have happened. The male characters especially had the kind of overt masculinity I expect to find in a last-gen title, not a future release (maybe it's just me). Anyone else get that feeling?
 

Budi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,889
Finland
Honestly, the art direction of the game didn't set me on fire, at all, though I'm not terribly familiar with the source material and appreciate this is maybe an accurate interpretation of the original tabletop. That said, Iit seemed to me like a world where none of the current social turmoil over representation (especially gender) seemed to have happened. The male characters especially had the kind of overt masculinity I expect to find in a last-gen title, not a future release (maybe it's just me). Anyone else get that feeling?
Could you specify this, with concrete examples so I'll get it. I'm not sure I understand what you mean. But as of now, I would say no I guess. Though I'm not ready to judge based on the trailer, the Witcher games had so much packed in them that couldn't be shown in a minute and half trailer. I assume no less from Cyberpunk.
 

Terra Firma

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,235
Yep, that struck out to me. Only obviously Indian character... And he's a cab driver. South Asians are very poorly represented in the video game industry, despite 1 in 6 people on this planet being South Asian (Indian, Pakistani, Sri Lankan, Bengali).
 

Ryoku

Member
Oct 28, 2017
460
Lol the ignorance and dismissive attitude here is sad.

"It's only one character."
Do you not understand stereotypes? Do you not understand that the one Indian character they showed in the trailer represents Indian people in the game so far?
In other words, they gave themselves one chance to represent Indians in the trailer, and they used that opportunity to showcase a stereotype.

"It could be a coincidence. It's just a taxi driver that happens to be Indian."
Give me a break.
 

Alo0oy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,091
Bahrain
How does one tell he is an Indian? To me he looks more like generally Arabic if I had to sort him somewhere. Interestingly enough, I did not know that Indians are often put into the roll of taxi drivers. If I had to associate a stereotypical job to them, it would be either a call center agent or a proficient scientist/doctor. Or IT.

And aren't stereotypes part of every dystopian world to show those issues?

This post is the result of the media stereotyping "other" ethnic groups. The only way anybody can say he looks Arab is if the only Arabs you met were on Hollywood.
 

Vela

Alt Account
Banned
Apr 16, 2018
1,818
How do Indians feel about Dhalsim? (honest question)

I'm not Indian, but Dhalsim is literally named after Indian foods and his wife is named Sari, literally named after the garment that Indian women wear. My Indian colleague went on a tirade against his character.

Imagine if a rarely seen American character was in a game and his name was BurgerFries and his wife was called GAP.
 

Yabab

Banned
Nov 24, 2017
97
São Paulo, Brazil
Cyberpunk 2020 was conceived in 198X. Back then their projections of the future reeked of the current status quo. 2077 is based on 2020, they're just putting the material on screen, don't take it personally.
 
Oct 26, 2017
394
User warned: Disingenuous posting, ignoring the context of the thread.
again people are just to fucking sensitive. a man making a living like any other normal human being. whats wrong with being a cab driver? are all cabdrivers losers in your eyes?

people need to chill out, everything is such a big deal today. nothing wrong with working an honest job.
 

Pickle

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
772
If the setting is trying to imitate a city like New York in the future, and cab drivers are by majority of that ethnicity right now, I find it hard to relate to the OP's complaint not to mention its a single character. The game is just trying to make it easy on people to find the relation between now and the future.
 

Ra

Rap Genius
Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
12,270
Dark Space
If the setting is trying to imitate a city like New York in the future, and cab drivers are by majority of that ethnicity right now, I find it hard to relate to the OP's complaint not to mention its a single character. The game is just trying to make it easy on people to find the relation between now and the future.
Are you of Indian descent and disappointed with your race's representation in video games? No? Well no shit you can't relate to the OP.
 

Shadoken

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,209
again people are just to fucking sensitive. a man making a living like any other normal human being. whats wrong with being a cab driver? are all cabdrivers losers in your eyes?

people need to chill out, everything is such a big deal today. nothing wrong with working an honest job.

Do you simply not understand what stereotypes are ?

Asians being good at math is a stereotype but obviously the "Being good at Math" part isn't bad/wrong or what bothers people. Its not like people even take offense to it , but stereotyping people is generally a bad idea. And it would be pretty lame if the only Indian character was based on a Stereotype.
 
OP
OP
Toriko

Toriko

Banned
Dec 29, 2017
7,711
again people are just to fucking sensitive. a man making a living like any other normal human being. whats wrong with being a cab driver? are all cabdrivers losers in your eyes?

people need to chill out, everything is such a big deal today. nothing wrong with working an honest job.

This post is wrong on so many levels I don't even know what to say. Like who here said being a taxi driver is bad?
 

Nooblet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,664
Isn't Chloe from Uncharted Australian?
She has an Indian father and presumably white mother (isn't said if she's Australian or not). But she was born in India and lived there for a while and then moved away with her mother to Australia.

While she was sort of ambigious looking in previous games (I just thought she had some Maori in her) it was never hinted that she has any sort of Indian background and they might as well have just pulled it out of nowhere for that game. They also made her look less ambiguous and more mixed by giving her Indian features in Lost Legacy but then that could probably just be due to the advancement in graphics (Drake looks pretty different despite noticeably being the same person in the PS3 game and UC4).

Yes it's true that she's voiced by a white actress, and that she has a non Indian surname, but despite all of this she is honestly one of the best representation someone with an Indian background in video games. In many ways she is more "Indian" than anyone else in the video game media. It's because she seems fully culturally aware and knowledgeable about Indian history and myths, she even pronounces the words/names properly and even corrects Nadine at her pronunciation at times. She also talks a lot about India, her relationship with her father and her years spent in the country. It's very well done.
 

Shadoken

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,209
I'm not Indian, but Dhalsim is literally named after Indian foods and his wife is named Sari, literally named after the garment that Indian women wear. My Indian colleague went on a tirade against his character.

Imagine if a rarely seen American character was in a game and his name was BurgerFries and his wife was called GAP.

Isn't his wife name Sally ? Though i could see how in earlier games they might have changed it to Sari because "Engrish".
 

Hey Please

Avenger
Oct 31, 2017
22,824
Not America
SMH. SMH. SMH. SMH.

It's disheartening to see people come into a thread to drop their hot takes. Toriko - Perhaps it would be best if you updated your OP by quoting some of the posts in thread that point out how and why this is an issue as far as the trailer is concerned. At the least that way people won't use the excuse of not trudging through 13 pages of discussion to get the context.
 

pargonta

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,884
North Carolina
i hope there is more varied indian representation in games/fiction in the future as well. personally not gonna hold developers to a social agenda, but i do hope the game isn't a shallow genre piece but instead has good writing, i approve of the cause!
 

Igniz12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,484
I think one of the reasons the cab driver sticks out so much is because of the juxtaposition of a future cyber world and a person wearing a religious piece of garment. From the press preview, I gather that there are some people in this world that have decided not to get implants of any kind; The doctor that gives you the eye implant in the closed door preview had no modifications done on himself. It would be cool if we had character in the game that have conflicts with living in a world like this and their desire to be faithful to their religion and we see how maybe because of this they are relegated to doing lowly jobs just to survive and not be able to get better jobs because that would require getting implant modifications. Idk enough about the IP to say that something like that would happen or even have the possibility of happening in the narrative of CyberPunk.

Really its the framing of the scene that sticks out so much. Here you have a insanely absurd scene with robot like humans with massive amount of guns looking to do some bad things presumably and then you have them riding a taxi with a very distinctly minority person. It's wanting to make a real life cab ride allegory so as to give a sense as to how wild this future world is but then you use a stereotype to seal the deal. "Haha, just like your daily taxi ride with Kumar but more crazy man" It is really hard to see how this was not intentional but I want to give CDPR the benefit of the doubt. As I said, they can still turn this into a positive thing and using a minority to tell a story that actually lands and not just use them as a punchline but the fact that there were no other people in the trailer that showed a similar attire really makes this sketch for me.

I think there is a difference between including someone and being inclusive. Including people means you put people in just to make them into stereotype or punchlines aka the "Magical Negro" effect and you have no use for them otherwise. But being inclusive means you actually can use a less represented person to tell a story with a different perspective but also not play into stereotypes if you can. Or just add them in and fuck trying to find the need to tell emotional stories all the time to justify their existence, it would be great if we could get to a point where both of those things happened regularly.
 
OP
OP
Toriko

Toriko

Banned
Dec 29, 2017
7,711
After the latest series of tweets I just wanted to bump this and say I am feeling less confident then before in CDPR doing justice to Indians in this game. I will be happy to be proven wrong but not feeling too confident.
 

newgamewhodis

Member
Oct 28, 2017
820
Brooklyn
*plays Pakistani card*

I was just pleasantly pleased it wasn't all white people, coming off of The Witcher 3. But I certainly hope we see more Indian representation in other contexts in the game going forward.