30-year-old man is being sued by his parents because he refuses to leave home

I seriously thought this guy was some kind of performance art act. Unreal.

Let's not ignore that he's the one calling media for press briefings and going on an interview circuit. If you're going to play the attention-seeking game, prepare to be asked hard questions. Zero sympathy.

Lastly: If you're actually in this thread blaming parents/capitalism/your dog for not taking responsibility for your life, prepare to be miserable for a very long time.

You're welcome to do nothing in life, but no one owes you shit.

Endaeias said:

Yeah, American culture doesn't exactly suggest that companies supply their employees with an abundance of paid time off or sick days. Until I got finished my degrees and got into a "degree-utilized position" (which are kind of hard to get these days), I worked in fast food or grocery stores where your PTO means that there's a chance that a shift supervisor or manager will start cutting your hours because you're "not reliable". Then you're kind of in the balance of "should I keep pushing myself so that I can get 40+ hours and not have a day off? Or should I try to get another job and work 20-25 hours at each place so I can make ends meet but possibly get one day off?". It's definitely not a happy-go-lucky balance. When I moved to the current company and got a week off, I was impressed (seriously lol). Now, the minimum is 2 weeks for new hires and 3 weeks for seniors. I've negotiated my way up to 40 holiday/PTO days in lieu of salary increases.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

That's great and that's how it should be. Well, no. Let me backtrack.I think this country should follow suit with other countries regarding employee work/life balance and PTO. My wife works for the government, so it's a bit different than most, but it accrued, so in a year she can end up with 2-4 weeks total easily. Of course, she gets 10 sick days. But her previous job, you start with a week. At two years, it is raised to two weeks, and then three weeks, finally capping at 4 weeks.

My current job? 10 vacation days, which includes sick and personal. Unpaid time off is a no. There is no raising of the cap for PTO. Could be here 1 year or 20. Ten days all inclusive, which is absurd. Especially the unpaid part because emergencies happen, we have kids, families, etc. So if you take a vacation with the family, but two months later there is an emergency school meeting, a hospital trip, whatever... you are denied and it is cause for termination and 90 percent of the time when real life has happened, they are terminated without hesitation. Unpaid time is not provided no matter the circumstance.

Vibri said:

I seriously thought this guy was some kind of performance art act. Unreal.

Let's not ignore that he's the one calling media for press briefings and going on an interview circuit. If you're going to play the attention-seeking game, prepare to be asked hard questions. Zero sympathy.

Lastly: If you're actually in this thread blaming parents/capitalism/your dog for not taking responsibility for your life, prepare to be miserable for a very long time.

You're welcome to do nothing in life, but no one owes you shit.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Someone who has trouble adapting into society and finding job, should not be treated like this but rather have/receive support (both from family and professionally by specialists) so that they can slowly fit into society.

I mean I'm shocked by some responses like these, "if you can't fit into society you are on your own". If it's ok for you treating someone with personal issues like this, even if it might mean that if kicked out they might do something stupid/end up homeless/do unconsiderate or dangerous acts, I'm truly appalled. This is not what a good member of society should do, we aren't in a post apocalyptic world, where every person for himself.

andrespi said:

Damn, that's harsh. Being kicked out at 16 is really harsh, can't imagine something like this. Were there no social services or anything? I mean even when you went to live alone, how could you sign anything, like a lease or a bank account? Wasn't there the risk of someone calling social services to find an accomodation for young people abandoned? Didn't the landowner call cops or social services seeing someone so young alone? I don't know so they could find an adoptive family or more probably a communal structure/institute for abandoned teeneagers? I mean in my country police would have probably arrested someone kicking their children out at 16 if it became public knowledge.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

I had already been paying them rent from the time I was 13. They kicked me out because I didn't pay them rent for the time that I was in Japan. This didn't make sense from the perspective of my teenage-self; but, in the adult world, this is how it would have played out as well. I simply used what savings I had and was able to sign for a place (with their permission). They still expected backpay from when I wasn't in the country - and they did get that, eventually (when I moved back home to take care of them in 2008 - they expected me to pay them before moving in, even though I was moving in to take care of them - so I did pay them the $5,500 they expected).

I thought about social services and the likes, but it came down to me knowing that it would have just caused more of a pain in the ass for me than just moving on with my life. When my mother passed away, I spent almost 7 months in foster care and really didn't want to go back anyways (it's a nightmare to be in the "custody of the state"). It wasn't until my grandparents realized that they'd get $1,100 a month due to "survivor's allowance" (given to my guardians to take care of me) that they even thought about adopting me. That should explain a lot. lol.

Clix said:

That's great and that's how it should be. Well, no. Let me backtrack.I think this country should follow suit with other countries regarding employee work/life balance and PTO. My wife works for the government, so it's a bit different than most, but it accrued, so in a year she can end up with 2-4 weeks total easily. Of course, she gets 10 sick days. But her previous job, you start with a week. At two years, it is raised to two weeks, and then three weeks, finally capping at 4 weeks.

My current job? 10 vacation days, which includes sick and personal. Unpaid time off is a no. There is no raising of the cap for PTO. Could be here 1 year or 20. Ten days all inclusive, which is absurd. Especially the unpaid part because emergencies happen, we have kids, families, etc. So if you take a vacation with the family, but two months later there is an emergency school meeting, a hospital trip, whatever... you are denied and it is cause for termination and 90 percent of the time when real life has happened, they are terminated without hesitation. Unpaid time is not provided no matter the circumstance.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Edit: Didn't want to double-post, so adding my response for this one in this reply.

Yeah, it's just something to think about. Some jobs require you to work for a full year before getting a week off. I know the policy at my old job was that in order to get a week off, you'd have to have worked six months in that fiscal year (so you wouldn't be able to take any time off at all until June or later of each year and it cannot be accrued). I mean, compared to my current benefits - your PTO is a bit harsh and a pain in the ass to deal with when emergencies happen.

A proper work/life balance is important, I agree. But most people wouldn't look at my life and agree that I have a balance between the two. But, as long as my fiancee is okay with my weird work hours (they don't impact her sleep or our activities together) - I'm not too bothered. I have some time to play video games, time to post on forums/subs, and can listen to music while I work. There's a balance but I maintain it in my own way. Not everyone has that luxury and I know that. But keep in mind that there are plenty trying to survive in life and only get 5 days off a year - that includes sick days. I've been there, it's not fun having to dope yourself up on medicine to try to survive a 3-8 hour shift when you can barely pull yourself out of bed.

By no means am I saying that your situation cannot be improved, or otherwise. Just stating that one thing that keeps my own perspective "to the ground" is my past experiences working for companies with a significantly flawed "home/work balance" when you're barely surviving on your check (per month) as it is.

bane833 said:

ItsI always hilarious how people get worked up over some poor bastard who maybe leeches a few hundred bucks a month all the while the countries "elites" treat themselves with a 1.5 trillion tax cut on top of their already obscene wealth.

Divide and conquer at it's finest.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

It's very amusing. The responses to my posts are such proof of how the rich pit us against each other while they exploit the entirety of humanity for profit. I'm somehow a bad person but Jeff Bezos having so much money he could buy every person in the US a house while his employees work themselves to near-death with awful pay is totally fine, apparently.

Vadara said:

It's very amusing. The responses to my posts are such proof of how the rich pit us against each other while they exploit the entirety of humanity for profit. I'm somehow a bad person but Jeff Bezos having so much money he could buy every person in the US a house while his employees work themselves to near-death with awful pay is totally fine, apparently.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Billionaires are fucking over everyone for their self-interest, while you are fucking over your family for yours. That doesn't make you more moral than Jeff Bezos, just less ambitious.

andrespi said:

Someone who has trouble adapting into society and finding job, should not be treated like this but rather have/receive support (both from family and professionally by specialists) so that they can slowly fit into society.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

He got a job and lost it because he didn't want to work Saturdays. Then tried to sue his employer.

His family offered help repeatedly, including cash for a down payment. He "spent it on other things".

He's a 30 year old grown ass adult with a child. He represents himself in court. He organizes media briefings.

Why are you assuming he's "has trouble adapting into society and finding job"?

Every single shred of evidence suggests he's an entitled man-child who needs to grow up and take responsibility for his life.

Stop mollycoddlung and trying to paint him as a victim.

Vibri said:

He got a job and lost it because he didn't want to work Saturdays. Then tried to sue his employer.

His family offered help repeatedly, including cash for a down payment. He "spent it on other things".

He's a 30 year old grown ass adult with a child. He represents himself in court. He organizes media briefings.

Why are you assuming he's "has trouble adapting into society and finding job"?

Every single shred of evidence suggests he's an entitled man-child who needs to grow up and take responsibility for his life.

Stop mollycoddlung and trying to paint him as a victim.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

You don't understand my post. I wasn't talking about the person in the news. I'm talking about the people in this thread; this is what he wrote:

If you're actually in this thread blaming parents/capitalism/your dog for not taking responsibility for your life, prepare to be miserable for a very long time.

He is refering to people who posted (and specifically one or two users who posted in previous pages) in this very thread and have talked about their own problems adapting and finding jobs.. He clearly says "if you are in this thread blaming parents... "

Quixzlizx said:

Billionaires are fucking over everyone for their self-interest, while you are fucking over your family for yours. That doesn't make you more moral than Jeff Bezos, just less ambitious.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Truth.

Vadara said:

It's very amusing. The responses to my posts are such proof of how the rich pit us against each other while they exploit the entirety of humanity for profit. I'm somehow a bad person but Jeff Bezos having so much money he could buy every person in the US a house while his employees work themselves to near-death with awful pay is totally fine, apparently.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Jeff Bezos grew up in a broken home to a teenage single mother, before working as a short order cook and waiter at McDonalds. Even after he became a billionaire he drove a shitty 2nd hand Toyota.

What have you done to deserve the fruits of his hard work?

andrespi said:

You don't understand my post. I wasn't talking about the person in the news. I'm talking about the people in this thread; this is what he wrote:

If you're actually in this thread blaming parents/capitalism/your dog for not taking responsibility for your life, prepare to be miserable for a very long time.

He is refering to people who posted (and specifically one or two users who posted in previous pages) in this very thread and have talked about their own problems adapting and finding jobs.. He clearly says "if you are in this thread blaming parents... "

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

The topic of this discussion is the man-child going on a media circuit for being called out by his parents.

I'm not here to address the entire history and merits of socio-economic safety nets. I'm addressing the topic, and comments defending him in the vein of "I'm not going to even try, give me money to do nothing". See every post by Vadara in this thread.

Vibri said:

Jeff Bezos grow up in a broken home to a teenage single mother, before working as a short order cook and waiter at McDonalds. Even after he became a billionaire he drove a shitty 2nd hand Toyota.

What have you done to deserve the fruits of his hard work?

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Are we seriously gonna take him as a role model? I mean he gets rich through amazon, which is a shame all around if you look it closely at their business practices.

andrespi said:

Are we seriously gonna take him as a role model? I mean he gets rich through amazon, which is a shame all around if you look it closely at their business practices.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Who says he's a role model? Read my question.

Also: ever used an online shopping service, bought a pair of sneakers, or a smartphone? You're enabling those "business practices".

Vibri said:

The topic of this discussion is the man-child going on a media circuit for being called out by his parents.

I'm not here to address the entire history and merits of socio-economic safety nets. I'm addressing the topic, and comments defending him in the vein of "I'm not going to even try, give me money to do nothing". See every post by Vadara in this thread.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

I'm not sure if you can read what I wrote. The post I quoted was referring to you attacking people posting in this thread and you clearly accused people who shared their problems.

This is what you wrote:

Lastly: If you're actually in this thread blaming parents/capitalism/your dog for not taking responsibility for your life, prepare to be miserable for a very long time.

You're welcome to do nothing in life, but no one owes you shit.

YOu are talking about people writing their own experiences and perosnal issues in this thread; I mean you said if you are in this tread blaming parents. If you weren't referring to them, then sorry, then I misunderstood the post. I don't see posts saying give him money for doing nothing, but treating someone like this is crazy and lacks emphaty.

Vadara said:

It's very amusing. The responses to my posts are such proof of how the rich pit us against each other while they exploit the entirety of humanity for profit. I'm somehow a bad person but Jeff Bezos having so much money he could buy every person in the US a house while his employees work themselves to near-death with awful pay is totally fine, apparently.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Jeff Bezos actually worked for what he had instead of sitting on his ass watching anime and playing video games all day though.

You're basically the antithesis for UBI being a good thing. The type of person people bring up to argue against the concept.

Jesus. This is a waste of time.

Good luck if you're still playing the victim. Hope y'all find some peace.

The people in this thread suggesting that parents have to let their child stay with them forever, or else they don't care and aren't good parents, are insane. Sometimes the most loving thing you can do for someone is to kick them out and make them grow up.

Vibri said:

Also: ever used an online shopping service, bought a pair of sneakers, or a smartphone? You're enabling those "business practices".

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

There are good online shopping alternatives, and if you think it's ok a multinational evading taxes for years with their volumes (it's not the only one obviously), keeping employee in slave conditions, well that tells me a lot.

andrespi said:

There are good online shopping alternatives, and if you think it's ok a multinational evading taxes for years with their volumes (it's not the only one obviously), keeping employee in slave conditions, well that tells me a lot.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Where did I say I was ok with that?

For the second (and last) time: read my question again.

andrespi said:

Are we seriously gonna take him as a role model? I mean he gets rich through amazon, which is a shame all around if you look it closely at their business practices.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Excuse me. I'm not trying to jump into another conversation - just that it appears that there's a bit of a miscommunication happening here.
From what I'm reading, it appears that Vibri is basically calling out those on this thread who have a firm ideology that working (ever, at all, in any way, shape or form) is a bad idea. There have been a few users in this thread that have implied that they believe that having a job (at all) is considered "wageslaving" because you live your life to make a wage/salary.
From there, it looks like you defended the other users who have actively been trying, to some degree or another to find a job or simply have issues adapting to society (in this thread).
I don't think Vibri is insulting those who are trying, just those who out-right claim that they refuse to try because it's "some kind of bullshit to have to work" (to paraphrase).

Either of you can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there's much point in having a discussion when the points are being missed.

Ok, I'm not gonna speak about that. It's only going to lead to more fight. We have different opinions, so no point in me arguing. I will respect that we have different points of view.

Endaeias said:

Excuse me. I'm not trying to jump into another conversation - just that it appears that there's a bit of a miscommunication happening here.
From what I'm reading, it appears that Vibri is basically calling out those on this thread who have a firm ideology that working (ever, at all, in any way, shape or form) is a bad idea. There have been a few users in this thread that have implied that they believe that having a job (at all) is considered "wageslaving" because you live your life to make a wage/salary.
From there, it looks like you defended the other users who have actively been trying, to some degree or another to find a job or simply have issues adapting to society (in this thread).
I don't think Vibri is insulting those who are trying, just those who out-right claim that they refuse to try because it's "some kind of bullshit to have to work" (to paraphrase).

Either of you can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there's much point in having a discussion when the points are being missed.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Yes, I thought he was talking/attacking about all those people in this thread saying they have trouble adapting. His original post was very generic, seemed referred to all people in this thread who mentioned any issues with modern society and how work is nowadays (which is perfectly understandable). So sorry, I thought he was talking about everybody in the thread, my mistake. THen I can understand a bit better the sentence.

But even those people mentioning wageslaving, they should be helped not certainly attacked or kicked out of home.

I mean if employers were all to treat like slaves we should certainly protest and fight peacefully. I mean employers even in my country are starting to treat us like slaves, and I don't see any reason why we shouldn't react asking for better conditions or dignity when working. My relatives fought (peacefully with strikes) for that and probably we should do it once again, with all these underpaid salaries or terrible work conditions. So someone disappointed with how the world is today, shouldn't be kicked out certainly or left on their own, even if he claims he doesn't want to work.

Endaeias said:

Excuse me. I'm not trying to jump into another conversation - just that it appears that there's a bit of a miscommunication happening here.
From what I'm reading, it appears that Vibri is basically calling out those on this thread who have a firm ideology that working (ever, at all, in any way, shape or form) is a bad idea. There have been a few users in this thread that have implied that they believe that having a job (at all) is considered "wageslaving" because you live your life to make a wage/salary.
From there, it looks like you defended the other users who have actively been trying, to some degree or another to find a job or simply have issues adapting to society (in this thread).
I don't think Vibri is insulting those who are trying, just those who out-right claim that they refuse to try because it's "some kind of bullshit to have to work" (to paraphrase).

Either of you can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there's much point in having a discussion when the points are being missed.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Oh, yeah Jesus if you're trying and/or have problems then all power to, and sympathy for you.

It thought it was pretty clear I was referencing the topic of this discussion, and those here defending his choice not to work - which from his own admission - we know is clearly his choice.

Vibri said:

Jeff Bezos grew up in a broken home to a teenage single mother, before working as a short order cook and waiter at McDonalds. Even after he became a billionaire he drove a shitty 2nd hand Toyota.

What have you done to deserve the fruits of his hard work?

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

This level of capitalism apologia is...astounding. Late-Stage Capitalism in action, folks.

Vadara said:

This level of capitalism apologia is...astounding. Late-Stage Capitalism in action, folks.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Answer the question.

Vadara said:

This level of capitalism apologia is...astounding. Late-Stage Capitalism in action, folks.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

It's interesting to see the posts you choose the respond to and the ones you actively ignore.

But carry on believing you have the moral/righteous high ground in this argument.

Vibri said:

Jeff Bezos grow up in a broken home to a teenage single mother, before working as a short order cook and waiter at McDonalds. Even after he became a billionaire he drove a shitty 2nd hand Toyota.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Jeff Bezos did not grow up in a broken home, he grew up in a nice suburban one and spent his childhood in gifted programs. His adoptive father was an engineer. Bezos had the loving support of his grandparents as well. His job at McDonalds was a normal summer job he had as a teenager, like many suburban teenagers have. Immediately after graduating from Princeton he went to work at an extremely well-regarded company that made financial software that only hired highly qualified candidates like him.

He drove a shitty second hand Toyata for so long because he's cheap as fuck and didn't want any money wasted for his startup, not because he's modest or anything. He has a documented history of being extremely awful and belittling to anyone he's ever worked with, and probably shares more in common with the subject of this thread than you might think, at least as far as upbringing goes.

Quixzlizx said:

Billionaires are fucking over everyone for their self-interest, while you are fucking over your family for yours. That doesn't make you more moral than Jeff Bezos, just less ambitious.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Yup, agreed.

PlayALLTheGames said:

They plan on paying him and giving him a "starting bonus" so I don't really know if that's free. Who even gives a starting bonus for waiters? I assume he'd be hired as a waiter because what the fuck else could he possibly do?

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Lol, I doubt this guy is gonna be a waiter.

Just the way he talks and presents himself would get him canned pretty fast.

Vadara said:

This level of capitalism apologia is...astounding. Late-Stage Capitalism in action, folks.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

As opposed to being an apologist for people who actively choose to mooch off their parents and are proud of not having a job lol.

What exactly do you plan on doing when your parents can no longer support you?

DeBurgo said:

He has a documented history of being extremely awful and belittling to anyone he's ever worked with, and probably shares more in common with the subject of this thread than you might think, at least as far as upbringing goes.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Mileage may vary depending which media you read, but when I worked with him he was rather generous and humble.

It's hard to compare upbringings directly, but If you're saying both were given ample opportunity: one guy did nothing, became a national laughing stock and other became the most successful man on earth.

Draw conclusions according to your preferred ideology, I'm not here to debate the validity of that or derail on Bezos.

Vibri said:

Oh, yeah Jesus if you're trying and/or have problems then all power to, and sympathy for you.

It thought it was pretty clear I was referencing the topic of this discussion, and those here defending his choice not to work - which from his own admission - we know is clearly his choice.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Sorry, then I thought you were talking about all people in this thread. I didn't really understand it was referred to a specific case.

Vadara said:

It's very amusing. The responses to my posts are such proof of how the rich pit us against each other while they exploit the entirety of humanity for profit. I'm somehow a bad person but Jeff Bezos having so much money he could buy every person in the US a house while his employees work themselves to near-death with awful pay is totally fine, apparently.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Maybe you shouldn't tell people your life style on a forum and attempt to deflect by name dropping someone else.

Vibri said:

The topic of this discussion is the man-child going on a media circuit for being called out by his parents.

I'm not here to address the entire history and merits of socio-economic safety nets. I'm addressing the topic, and comments defending him in the vein of "I'm not going to even try, give me money to do nothing". See every post by Vadara in this thread.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

People should stop responding to Vadara in this vein. He's just playing out a script where he is smart and rude and we're all dumb and self-righteous. It just feeds his self-positioning.

If he finds personal fulfillment sitting in his room and playing videogames while his parents feed him, good for him, I guess.

If he doesn't find personal fulfillment doing that, maybe one day he'll try looking for something that does give him personal fulfillment.

Vadara said:

This level of capitalism apologia is...astounding. Late-Stage Capitalism in action, folks.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

No, this is you deflecting because people aren't treating you like a victim while you're being lazy and exploiting your parents while you criticize them for participating in the very thing that keeps a roof over your head.

Vadara said:

It's very amusing. The responses to my posts are such proof of how the rich pit us against each other while they exploit the entirety of humanity for profit. I'm somehow a bad person but Jeff Bezos having so much money he could buy every person in the US a house while his employees work themselves to near-death with awful pay is totally fine, apparently.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Your warped entitled perspective will not work out for you in the long run.
You have one life, why are you willing to roll over so quickly and waste it?

Blaming successful people for your failure sounds pretty easy....but how does that help you at all?

You get one kick at this can and this is how you want to play it? Sounds horrible to me.

sleepInsom said:

No, this is you deflecting because people aren't treating you like a victim while you're being lazy and exploiting your parents while you criticize them for participating in the very thing that keeps a roof over your head.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Which is why I guess he said he supports UBI so no one has to work if they don't want. So he can continue his lifestyle without feeling guilty lol

H.Protagonist said:

1) Needing money
- I took every job on offer no matter how shitty it was. Judging from recent threads everyone seems to think they deserve/are going to land their dream job immediately or that some stuff is beneath them (this recent prevailing idea that a job MUST be emotionally or spiritually satisfying to be acceptable), but that's just not realistic, especially when you're just starting out. I highly recommend taking 'undesirable' jobs because you'll learn a lot, they're always in demand, and if you work your way up even a little they seem to be really well paid (septic cleaning, garbage man, sewer inspector, etc.). But I don't recommend moving furniture. My back still aches. :(

2) Apply for everything
- Be bold! I just threw my hat in the ring for anything that sounded even remotely interesting, experience or no. Did I know how to ride a horse? Sort of. Was I remotely qualified to take groups of people up a mountain? Probably not. I had no problem mucking stalls or grooming, so all I had to do was the interview. The 'interview' was getting on the horse and them waving a plastic bag in its face. It bolted (of course), but I stayed on. HIRED.

3) Some networking
- Make friends with everyone, work hard, and some relationships will bear unexpected fruit.



I mean, it's already been explained ad nauseam on these last couple of pages...



Exactly. And yeah to the bolded. Perhaps things are changing, but a lack of (perceived) ambition, independence, and maturity is a huge turn off for many. There are always exceptions, I'm sure, but a guy living at home with his parents is not the most desirable of situations in the US (West?).

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

I admire your ability to tackle hardship like that, but I also think it's important to note that not everyone is like that or capable of what you managed to accomplish. I'm comfortable saying if I was in that situation and didn't have the option to go home, I would not have survived.

It's not just life experience that determines how you tackle issues, it's also things more innate to yourself divorced from your upbringing. Some people just don't have the mental fortitude for it. This bootstraps mindset to "strike out on your own" is exactly why one of my old friends is in a psyche ward now after multiple suicide attempts. And even if things don't quite get to that point right away, a lot of us live in a country where we don't exactly have access to good mental healthcare.

You were fine, but what about extremely introverted or socially anxious people incapable of making connections? There's more out there than you think and it's not always a "fixable" issue (hell, I've been trying since I was 4 years old and probably spent nearly $100k with mental health professionals over the span of my life, to little success unfortunately). Work ethic isn't the end all be all determinator for why any given person is in the situation they're in, and that being the go-to for much of my parents' generation and the one after it has definitely been a big problem in how it mischaracterized the issue for so long.

That's why in the extremely unlikely scenario I have kids, I'm not going to force them out at any point and if they want to live with me until they die, I'd be fine with that.

Vadara said:

This level of capitalism apologia is...astounding. Late-Stage Capitalism in action, folks.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Ok, I've tried to show you some degree of respect, but you're literally just making excuses for being lazy and greedy. I feel like you are in a harsh wake up call when your parents eventually stop subsidizing your lifestyle.

RedMercury said:

I mean, what good does it do for society to have a completely unmotivated individual at a job they are bad at and don't care about at all? "Get off your ass and work" is a nice platitude but you wouldn't want to be served in a restaurant by this person, you wouldn't want them to work on your car, so what would you have them do? They would likely end up on welfare anyways, what's the difference?

It just seems like you aren't happy and you want others to not be happy if you can't be happy, not out of any concern for them or what may be beneficial for society overall when considering establishing UBI. We have to start advocating moving away from the yoke of 40 hour soul-sucking workweeks being paid scraps, advocating for enjoying our work instead of working so much for so little and such basic things, it's not tenable. Solve that and many more people will likely work, and work better. We def aren't gonna get there by supporting the system that teaches us the other guy is a lazy bum or less of a human being for choosing an alternative lifestyle.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

The good it does is me not having to subsidize their laziness. It's not a platitude, it's a fundamental part of life since forever. The difference is being a whiny grown child is not something we should coddle or encourage as a society. I been there with shitty jobs. Keep grinding and find one you love. I love my job. I love my coworkers as they keep shit professional.

I'm not happy? How are you coming to that conclusion? Because I don't want to subsidize a lazy person? I'm happy as could be. Is my commute what I want? No. Do I let it affect my happiness? No! I chill out, read books, listen to music, browse the web. Notice how I'm doing my best to make an otherwise crappy situation better? That's what dude needs to do talking that "I didn't say I wasn't selfish so it's ok others pay for my shit"

He is lazy. Cut the bullshit. Stop coddling lazy people that want to play video games 24/7 and not work. I was in my early 20's too. Shit was rough. No excuses.

Thorn said:

I have seen people who reply to this with "Guess ill kill myself then. "

To some, the idea of being a "wage slave" is a fate worse than death.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Then develop a skill set so you make more than being a "wage slave". It takes time, effort, some luck, and most importantly the willingness to keep trying despite setbacks. Mofos acting like they helpless and a career would mean nothing in the long run.

Fuck going on tv is a great way to get a job.

lmcfigs said:

Fuck going on tv is a great way to get a job.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Surprised he doesn't just do a Patreon for his groundbreaking content.

Mammoth Jones said:

I been there with shitty jobs. Keep grinding and find one you love. I love my job. I love my coworkers as they keep shit professional.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

We "keep grinding" people into physical financial oblivion in this country, a meat grinder would be an apt comparison. Like I agree people should do their best but the system is rigged, there are people out there that have been working shit jobs for decades, working mad hard and it's never gonna get them anything more, there isn't always a light at the tunnel, that's a fairy tale.

Mammoth Jones said:

I'm not happy? How are you coming to that conclusion?

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

That's just the way your post came off, I'm glad you're happy. You can't deny there's a shitload of people with the mentality "I hate my job, I hate working, this person should have to work and hate their job just like I have to".

Mammoth Jones said:

He is lazy. Cut the bullshit. Stop coddling lazy people that want to play video games 24/7 and not work. I was in my early 20's too. Shit was rough. No excuses.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

I dunno dude, I get what you're saying, I used to think like that too. Shit doesn't have to be rough, we can change the system. We should change the system. People shouldn't have to struggle the way people do in this country just because other people struggled at some other point. We should want better than that and part of that is not clinging to implicit defenses of our capitalist system that chews people up.

And like I said, very few people are like this dude, what do we do about him? I don't want him serving me food, I don't want him changing my tires. This is an entirely unmotivated individual who will likely do poorly at any job he gets, he will likely never have stable employment. With that in mind what is the answer for him, because "just work like I do" isn't going to cut it. I'm sure there is a subsection of society that is just like him. He'll likely end up on welfare, so what's the difference? Do you believe it does our society more good than bad to have this individual jumping from job to job, maybe being homeless, likely having no health insurance and costing everyone money, having an utterly shit quality of life for the rest of his life *or* can we do better as a society with someone like this even if we personally think he's a lazy ass? Many will say a shit life is what he deserves, "that's what he gets", and that may be correct under our current system but I don't think he deserves what amounts to a life sentence of being miserable.

cosmicblizzard said:

I admire your ability to tackle hardship like that, but I also think it's important to note that not everyone is like that or capable of what you managed to accomplish. I'm comfortable saying if I was in that situation and didn't have the option to go home, I would not have survived.

It's not just life experience that determines how you tackle issues, it's also things more innate to yourself divorced from your upbringing. Some people just don't have the mental fortitude for it. This bootstraps mindset to "strike out on your own" is exactly why one of my old friends is in a psyche ward now after multiple suicide attempts. And even if things don't quite get to that point right away, a lot of us live in a country where we don't exactly have access to good mental healthcare.

You were fine, but what about extremely introverted or socially anxious people incapable of making connections? There's more out there than you think and it's not always a "fixable" issue (hell, I've been trying since I was 4 years old and probably spent nearly $100k with mental health professionals over the span of my life, to little success unfortunately). Work ethic isn't the end all be all determinator for why any given person is in the situation they're in, and that being the go-to for much of my parents' generation and the one after it has definitely been a big problem in how it mischaracterized the issue for so long.

That's why in the extremely unlikely scenario I have kids, I'm not going to force them out at any point and if they want to live with me until they die, I'd be fine with that.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

I don't disagree with you that it would (naturally) vary from person to person, but I'm a bit tired of hearing this "boot straps" go-to whenever anyone suggests that making an effort or putting themselves out there resulted in some kind of success and might work for others. It's just not. It's life. If you try, sometimes things happen. If you don't try, nothing happens. No one expects success all of the time. I wouldn't call that year off of mine any kind of 'success' at all. It was the constant failure that benefited me in the end. I wasn't social to start. I didn't have some great work ethic right off the bat, and I took that year off not just because of money fears but because I'd stopped going to class. I barely cleared that last semester before I left because all I did was sleep. I wasn't 'fine'. But don't get me wrong. I'm not advocating for anything other than trying. I understand that there are degrees of things and life doesn't just unlock proportionate to the effort you put in. I just think the failures are as valuable as the successes, and boy do you get a lot of fail if you strike out on your own early. :P

Anyway, I don't think you're giving yourself enough credit. You put yourself out there all the time with your work, and you sound like you'd make a fine father because you care. That's the important part, really.

Vadara said:

It's very amusing. The responses to my posts are such proof of how the rich pit us against each other while they exploit the entirety of humanity for profit. I'm somehow a bad person but Jeff Bezos having so much money he could buy every person in the US a house while his employees work themselves to near-death with awful pay is totally fine, apparently.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

No, more like people trying to make you think about whats going to happen to you in the future. Like what are you going to do when the money dries up? What are you going to do when you are old without a pension?

To be honest this thread has been a difficult read for me.

I'm 25, live at home, and have flunked the last two jobs I've had due to anxiety problems. My family is trying to convince me to go on ODSP and I feel like such a failure for even considering it. It's a guaranteed income that lets me have the time to work on myself, get counseling and lose weight before I go back to college, but even thinking about it makes my brain scream about how I'm cheating the system.

Rygar 8Bit said:

No, more like people trying to make you think about whats going to happen to you in the future. Like what are you going to do when the money dries up? What are you going to do when you are old without a pension?

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Please, as if pensions will still exist by the time I'm 65 even if I did work my ass off.

At this rate America will be a war-torn hellhole worse than most 3rd-world countries by the time I'm retirement age anyway.

Vadara said:

Please, as if pensions will still exist by the time I'm 65 even if I did work my ass off.

At this rate America will be a war-torn hellhole worse than most 3rd-world countries by the time I'm retirement age anyway.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

That kind of thinking is going to leave you fucked in the future. Assuming everything is going to be a hellscape will turn bad for you when it doesn't go that way. Don't set yourself up for homelessness in the future. It's a bad scene.

He should have started up a GoFundMe before his story went Vitale

Weiss said:

To be honest this thread has been a difficult read for me.

I'm 25, live at home, and have flunked the last two jobs I've had due to anxiety problems. My family is trying to convince me to go on ODSP and I feel like such a failure for even considering it. It's a guaranteed income that lets me have the time to work on myself, get counseling and lose weight before I go back to college, but even thinking about it makes my brain scream about how I'm cheating the system.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

That's nothing you should feel guilty about, especially since going for it will help you move forward.

Vadara said:

Please, as if pensions will still exist by the time I'm 65 even if I did work my ass off.

At this rate America will be a war-torn hellhole worse than most 3rd-world countries by the time I'm retirement age anyway.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Do you honestly think you can stay as is for 30 years?

For the sake of having something of your own in your pocket, try getting something part-time. If you don't like it, go back to what you were doing.