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Clix

Banned
1) Needing money
- I took every job on offer no matter how shitty it was. Judging from recent threads everyone seems to think they deserve/are going to land their dream job immediately or that some stuff is beneath them (this recent prevailing idea that a job MUST be emotionally or spiritually satisfying to be acceptable), but that's just not realistic, especially when you're just starting out. I highly recommend taking 'undesirable' jobs because you'll learn a lot, they're always in demand, and if you work your way up even a little they seem to be really well paid (septic cleaning, garbage man, sewer inspector, etc.). But I don't recommend moving furniture. My back still aches. :(

2) Apply for everything
- Be bold! I just threw my hat in the ring for anything that sounded even remotely interesting, experience or no. Did I know how to ride a horse? Sort of. Was I remotely qualified to take groups of people up a mountain? Probably not. I had no problem mucking stalls or grooming, so all I had to do was the interview. The 'interview' was getting on the horse and them waving a plastic bag in its face. It bolted (of course), but I stayed on. HIRED.

3) Some networking
- Make friends with everyone, work hard, and some relationships will bear unexpected fruit.



I mean, it's already been explained ad nauseam on these last couple of pages...



Exactly. And yeah to the bolded. Perhaps things are changing, but a lack of (perceived) ambition, independence, and maturity is a huge turn off for many. There are always exceptions, I'm sure, but a guy living at home with his parents is not the most desirable of situations in the US (West?).

Well, considering this thread has 15 pages, I did not read every single page. Try not being snarky?

So I see your response and the response you quoted from another user. It still does not make sense. Has nothing too do with coddling, nor lack of ambition, maturity, independence unless the person is a mooch who does nothing at all.
 

Endaeias

Member
Jan 11, 2018
308
Whoa, I commend your work ethic, but 12-18 hours a day would have me looking for a position with a better work/life balance. I'm salaried as well but if my employer expected me to work that much, I'd look elsewhere. They clearly are understaffed.

I've been with the same company for almost 8 years (in three different positions). The weird hours are mostly due to the fact that our development team is in India and I'm a product manager (so there's a requirement of communicating with the engineering/development team frequently). Since it's not a large company; yet, we appeal to enterprise companies all around the world (as our customer base) - it's not uncommon that being on-call 365/24/7 is a thing.

But I am very, very strict about being contacted during my vacation/days off. I've lost my temper a few times with the CEO when I've been contacted on a holiday and expected to work. They even had a company laptop shipped to me, overseas, next day air - because I didn't bring a work device with me. I understood the urgency but the issue is that most of us in this company has 98% of knowledge specific to customers we've interacted with or projects we've taken lead. Knowledge transfers are becoming more frequent, at my own request (I started them), but there are always going to be blind spots that I'm going to be contacted about.
 

andrespi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
88
I'm in the United States. I work one job. I'm salaried. If you make over a certain amount (salaried), you are exempt from overtime laws (federally and in the state that I'm in). I believe if you bring home less than $900 a week (base salary, not net salary after taxes) you are required to be paid overtime. As my salary is higher than this, my company expects me to be willing to work as long as my body can sustain itself (often the case is that my day starts at 2AM and doesn't end until 6-8PM).



Well, there are benefits to this position. I may work like crazy but I get 8 weeks off a year (can take 4 weeks off at a time) and I get federal holidays off. I have unlimited sick leave (doesn't count towards vacation/holiday). I do not get paid overtime for days that I work on holidays (I've done this when I was in a different position in the same company). Salaried is salaried. I make the same if I work 2 hours a day or 18 hours a day. The only difference is that I'd be fired for working 2 hours a day. But when I take vacations, I take pretty decent vacations. Either up to the mountains where I am unreachable by technology (once a year) or down at the beach house where I can read on the beach for 4-5 hours a day. Work hard, play hard. :)

So I wasn't wrong, this is just one job. I mean this is crazy. i don't understand how a first-world state doesn't forbid a company from hiring someone for more than 8 hours per day.

I mean I wouldn't expect this from a third world country; for a first world country I would expect laws forbidding this to employer. I mean 8 weeks is ok, but are they paid holidays? Do you have sick pay? I mean here in italy you usually have 26-28 days of paid holidays, hourly paid permissions on top of that (when you want only 2 or 3 hours but not the full days), family leaves, but this is for working 40 hours per week, not 14 hours per day. Plus we have paid breaks (10-15 minutes) if you work on pc/monitors every X hours.
I understand you might be ok, but allowing this by the state is shocking to me.
 
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Quixzlizx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,591
Wow, some seriously harsh comments in this thread. Kind of surprised. Didn't expect people to be so freaking judgemental here.
I'm only feeling judgemental toward the "I refuse to participate in the capitalist system!" people who are leeching off people who are participating in it. What a pathetic rationalization to make yourself feel better about offshoring your suffering to others.
 

Endaeias

Member
Jan 11, 2018
308
So I wasn't wrong, this is just one job. I mean this is crazy. i don't understand how a first-world state doesn't forbid a company from hiring someone for more than 8 hours per day.

I mean I wouldn't expect this from a third world country; for a first world country I would expect laws forbidding this to employer. I mean 8 weeks is in the norm considering the hours, but are they paid holidays? Do you have sick pay? I mean here in italyyou usually have 26-28 days of paid holidays, hourly paid permission on top of that (when you want only 2 or 3 hours but not the full days), family leaves, but this is for working 40 hours per week, not 14 hours per day.

These are all of my benefits:

  • Eight weeks of paid holiday (this is 40 days off a year, weekends are assumed "off" when putting in long requests like these but do not count towards your total days).
  • Unlimited sick leave (I can, technically, call out of work for any illness. But I reserve it for when I'm really feeling like death and need proper rest). They even support what are called "Sanity Days" - days where you've reached your maximum stress limit and just need a day to go to an arcade/barcade or sit in the middle of a park and chill.. whatever you want to do.
  • 401(k) contributions matched, up to $1000 per month (which means I have about $2500 going into my 401(k) per month).
  • 10% of salary contributed by the company to your retirement fund (as long as you contribute at least 3% of your salary to it, I contribute 5%).
  • "Shares options" - even though the company isn't publically traded, you can own some shares in the event that the company is sold. Due to how long I've been around, they gave me a fair amount of shares (as well as a 15% salary increase) when I mentioned I had interviews lined up for the following week (this isn't a threat you make every year - I was genuinely about to leave around this time).
  • Remote work - most of my working is done at home. I just have to make an appearance at the office for a week every 2-3 months. Which allows me to respond to ResetEra threads, browse Reddit, and all the other things (other than gaming as it's too much of a distraction) without worrying about someone eyeing over my shoulder. I still get more done than my counterparts that are in the office, doing the same things.
Again, a lot of it is cultural differences. I've been working since I was six years old (cutting tobacco, getting paid under the table). It used to fund my video games, computer parts, supplies for school, new clothes each school year, etc. My mother would contribute to necessities but also taught me the "value of a dollar" (to sound like a 95-year-old man) by forcing me to pay for my own hobbies; knowing that I wouldn't get paid again until the summer (I would get about $1,200-1,500 for two and a half months' of work back then). Working 12 hours is still about how much I worked when I was in the field, just that it's every day - all year - instead of just a few months in the field.

Which is why I say a lot of the complaints this 30 year old has about his parents asking him to leave sound absolutely foreign to me. I've been somewhat independent for as long as I can remember. I've been fully independent since I returned from my foreign exchange program - lived and paid for my own place to stay until I went to college. Then I worked multiple jobs to pay whatever tuition that my scholarships/loans didn't pay for and my monthly bills. I never had the luxury of my family taking care of me when I was in college - or giving me "food allowance" or other such things.
 

sleepInsom

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,569
Well, considering this thread has 15 pages, I did not read every single page. Try not being snarky?

So I see your response and the response you quoted from another user. It still does not make sense. Has nothing too do with coddling, nor lack of ambition, maturity, independence unless the person is a mooch who does nothing at all.

I mean, when you're depending on your parents to subsidize your living to a certain extent you can't really say none of those terms apply, especially in comparison to someone who lives independently.
 

sleepInsom

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,569
No, because every adult household contributes to the home. It's a family unit. Everyone contributes equally.

But you're still depending on others when others are capable of doing it without help from parents. That's not living independently. That's not ambitious. That's dependent living. In the United States, you'd normally be seen as incapable of living in your own two feet and people will judge you for it.
 

Clix

Banned
But you're still depending on others when others are capable of doing it without help from parents. That's not living independently. That's not ambitious. That's dependent living. In the United States, you'd normally be seen as incapable of living in your own two feet and people will judge you for it.

Sorry, I forgot you Americans are superior to the rest of us. I'll stay in my corner now then.
 

andrespi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
88
These are all of my benefits:

  • Eight weeks of paid holiday (this is 40 days off a year, weekends are assumed "off" when putting in long requests like these but do not count towards your total days).
  • Unlimited sick leave (I can, technically, call out of work for any illness. But I reserve it for when I'm really feeling like death and need proper rest). They even support what are called "Sanity Days" - days where you've reached your maximum stress limit and just need a day to go to an arcade/barcade or sit in the middle of a park and chill.. whatever you want to do.
  • 401(k) contributions matched, up to $1000 per month (which means I have about $2500 going into my 401(k) per month).
  • 10% of salary contributed by the company to your retirement fund (as long as you contribute at least 3% of your salary to it, I contribute 5%).
  • "Shares options" - even though the company isn't publically traded, you can own some shares in the event that the company is sold. Due to how long I've been around, they gave me a fair amount of shares (as well as a 15% salary increase) when I mentioned I had interviews lined up for the following week (this isn't a threat you make every year - I was genuinely about to leave around this time).
  • Remote work - most of my working is done at home. I just have to make an appearance at the office for a week every 2-3 months. Which allows me to respond to ResetEra threads, browse Reddit, and all the other things (other than gaming as it's too much of a distraction) without worrying about someone eyeing over my shoulder. I still get more done than my counterparts that are in the office, doing the same things.
Again, a lot of it is cultural differences. I've been working since I was six years old (cutting tobacco, getting paid under the table). It used to fund my video games, computer parts, supplies for school, new clothes each school year, etc. My mother would contribute to necessities but also taught me the "value of a dollar" (to sound like a 95-year-old man) by forcing me to pay for my own hobbies; knowing that I wouldn't get paid again until the summer (I would get about $1,200-1,500 for two and a half months' of work back then). Working 12 hours is still about how much I worked when I was in the field, just that it's every day - all year - instead of just a few months in the field.

Which is why I say a lot of the complaints this 30 year old has about his parents asking him to leave sound absolutely foreign to me. I've been somewhat independent for as long as I can remember. I've been fully independent since I returned from my foreign exchange program - lived and paid for my own place to stay until I went to college. Then I worked multiple jobs to pay whatever tuition that my scholarships/loans didn't pay for and my monthly bills. I never had the luxury of my family taking care of me when I was in college - or giving me "food allowance" or other such things.

I see. I mean I can see that remote work is quite an advantage. I work from home because I'm a freelancer (so I have my own individual enterprise here in my country), but if you work for a company here in my country as an employee (and not external consultant) there is nearly no place that would allow remote work (or it's very rare). SO I guess that makes a difference. Also share options are somethings we don't ever see here. 8 weeks are good, but I don't know if anyone here would ever accept working so much unless you are in a very deep financial trouble that would mean risking your or your family life. I mean I wouldn't even have time to see my friends or parents or even just going shopping with hours like that.

I guess cultural differences... .

Everyone is free to work as much as they like, but I must say I'm a bit worried that a country allows this (and is not forbidden in some way by law) because there is a serious risk of abuses from employers, and some people might be forced to accept such work hours.
 
Well, considering this thread has 15 pages, I did not read every single page. Try not being snarky?

So I see your response and the response you quoted from another user. It still does not make sense. Has nothing too do with coddling, nor lack of ambition, maturity, independence unless the person is a mooch who does nothing at all.

It's been a pretty big part of the discussion for several of the pages just prior to your post, so I think I can express a little incredulity when you post something as general as that.

Here's what I posted a bit farther back outlining some of the 'rent' concept (not sure if you saw it):

I think people are taking the 'rent' thing to really extreme places, as if parents are demanding payment purely for greed or to spite the kids for existing. In my experience, and I feel like this is generally the norm, the concept of the rent is to 1) help teach the kid about real world responsibilities. Paying on time, budgeting, having a regular job to have enough money saved up for regular bills, etc. One thing I had noticed that was different in my 20s between myself and freshly out of the house peers when it came to renting in the real world was that they seemed to think rent was a suggestion or flexible somehow. The number of times I heard about them being late, or 'forgetting', or not having enough when they were roommating was really common. 2) Asking for rent is to encourage them to get out of the house and onto their own feet. It's a motivator and deterrent for lingering on past the point of needing to stay home. 3) Defraying costs. I think most kids just pitch in for bills, but sometimes it covers this as well. And in some cases also (I'll probably do this or some version), the 'rent' collected is (unbeknownst to them) put into an account and given back to the kid when they move out so that they have a nice bit of money saved up for emergencies. Basically, the leap to they must hate their children to 'treat them like strangers' seems really defensive and a bit silly.

And this post from sleepInsom covers it nicely as well:

For many Americans, adulthood is about gaining independence, standing on your own two feet, and becoming a more resourceful and capable person from those struggles. Living with your parents where they're still coddling when you have the means otherwise is usually looked down upon, especially when it comes to dating at a certain age. Nobody wants to plan their intimate time around their parents schedule.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
26,560
left at 17? What? Like you you literally left home before being 18?

I don't even understand how you can leave home at 17. Obviously the school system and society must be different. Here in Italy: until 19 years old for most people, including me, but then there are a few who might lose a year and finish at 20 years (and there were 1 or 2 people like this out of 20 people in my class so they finished at 20 even though it's rare) you are in high school; during this time have to be in school roughly 5 hours/day Mon-Sat, plus on afternoon you have roughly 2-3 hours per day of homework (and in the 6-8 weeks prior to the final high school exams in summer, when you are 19, you easily have to study and prepare for 30 hours per week making it nearly impossible to work in the mean time). Work might be possible on the last year of school (and before the preparation period for the final high school exam in summer) when you are 18-19, maybe 4-5 hours per week I guess, but what job would you do since you could devote 4-5 hours per week and stop in early summer-late spring for the final high school exam)? It would have to be something on the evenings or only weekends (and it would be hard because you have homeworks also on weekends).

When I was at school, for example the school wouldn't even let me leave school without a parent's permission even if I just was 18 years old (even 19 for what matters; but they asked the same to the 20 years old who missed a year). There were a lot of debate and most schools didn't allow for example children to sign themselves even if they had 18 years; they still neded parents' signature for everything (leaving early, skipping school day and so on) even if 18, because from their giuridical point of view the school's responsibility towards parents who entrust their children to a school, trumped the fact of being above age according to law. At least this was the case until 13 years ago (when I finished high school), don't know if things changed. I have sources, but they are in italian so it would be useless to post them here, and quite off topic (since they are specific to italy and it's clear 90% of users here are from usa or english-speaking countries).

Here they won't let you rent a place until 18, and I can ensure that 90% of places will never let you rent a place on your own, if you are so young, without a written warranty from parents (which they must sign in person and means that they will pay for you in case you don't and is a legal document). At best you might find rooms in shared flats when you are 19-20, but I don't know of any homeowner that would rent you at a 19 years old without a warranty document (guaranteing they will pay for you in case you are late) from a parent with a permanent job.

Also in italy for example there have been a few judge sentences (i remember reading on the newspaper two different cases about this) over the last few years, where parents are responsible until the son has reached economical independence. So they literally can't forcefully kick their kid out until he has reached economical independence or prove that they willfully refuse jobs that would otherwise fit their attitudes/aspirations. Personally I agree with those judges because parenting and caring about children never stops and 18 is not a magical number, but I understand that we are in a different culture, so I wont' argue about this anymore. We have different opinions.

Anyway I don't even know of any 18-20 years old with a stable job (which would earn enough to pay rent). The only 20 year old that work full time I know earns 600-700 euro, which would barely be enough for renting a single room (not a flat) in city center and bills (but this does exclude all other expenses like food and so on). And I'm sorry I understand sharing bathrooms and kitchen when I'm a student, but not sharing when I work full time. If I have to work full time, I prefer staying 5-6 years more in my parent's home while working until I can afford a place on my own. The only time you should be sharing kitchen and bathrooms with 4-5 strangers is when you are away in another city for uni; no sense sharing a flat if I can stay with my parents (and don't plan to change city) for 5-6 years just until I can afford a whole house or flat on my own.

It's what everyone does here, and a good parent should want the best for their children even if above age, which means enjoying their sons for just 4-5 more years in their house (if they can afford obviously) so that the children can afford a house on their own in the future (unless he wants to move out of his own choice early) and maybe save something for retirement so they won't live in poverty.

P.S.: in italy just to give an exmaple of how you don't stop being dependent on your family at 18, sons/daughters (of any age) can be dependent for tax reasons to their parents at any age (as long as they earn under a treshold amount) and parents get a lot of discounts on their taxes (not sure how to translate the correct italian term in english sorry). I know a 35 year old person who lives with their mother and the mother enjoy a tax benefit (and it's not small) from it, because he earns under that threshold. I also don't know any person under 25 years old who isn't dependant on their parent on their tax declaration (and this also if they live outside their parent's home during uni). Most people start earn enough to not be dependent for the tax declaration in their late 20s.
My 18th birthday was a month into my first college semester, so technically I left the house at 17, but then my mom helped me pack, drove me bought me food at the dorms and gave me money. So ... it wasn't much of a cut off.
 

LogicAirForce

Member
Oct 25, 2017
937
No, because every adult household contributes to the home. It's a family unit. Everyone contributes equally.
People are saying that its selfish to live at home and and not contibute anything. Most of the people that I know who kicked out their kids did so because the kids refused to pay bills or do any kind of house work. Most parents in America aren't going to just give their kids the boot right after high school graduation. For example, my parents have allowed both me and my brother to live with them even though we are adults. I work over 40 hours a week and pay the majority of the bills, in fact if it wasn't for me they would have been homeless since they are so bad with money. My brother,however, dropped out of highschool, refused to get a GED and a job and would spend all day playing games or watching youtube. My parents have said I can stay as long as I want but they've told my brother he needs to leave if he won't contribute. He is finally working on getting the GED (he goes in for his last 2 tests today!) and has already started looking for work. My parents gave him this ultimatum because they know they aren't going to be around forever and he needs to be able to care for himself. Allowing your kid to mooch off you and not learn any life skills is just going to harm them in the end.

Edit:
Sorry, I forgot you Americans are superior to the rest of us. I'll stay in my corner now then.
lol if I had known you were gonna be so shitty I wouldn't have bothered typing up that reply.
 
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Endaeias

Member
Jan 11, 2018
308
Sorry, I forgot you Americans are superior to the rest of us. I'll stay in my corner now then.

By no means have I been trying to insinuate that Americans are "superior" to the rest of the world. I've been the first to admit that there are cultural differences between the work ethics/expectations of Americans versus many countries. Our CEO is French and started giving us more PTO (we all started out with 1 week of PTO per year, even those who have been at the same company for 10-12 years) because he felt it was very unfair to the work culture - to expect so much work with so little time off.

I see. I mean I can see that remote work is quite an advantage. I work from home because I'm a freelancer (so I have my own individual enterprise here in my country), but if you work for a company here in my country as an employee (and not external consultant) there is nearly no place that would allow remote work (or it's very rare). SO I guess that makes a difference. Also share options are somethings we don't ever see here. 8 weeks are good, but I don't know if anyone here would ever accept working so much unless you are in a very deep financial trouble that would mean risking your or your family life. I mean I wouldn't even have time to see my friends or parents or even just going shopping with hours like that.

I guess cultural differences... .

Everyone is free to work as much as they like, but I must say I'm a bit worried that a country allows this (and is not forbidden in some way by law) because there is a serious risk of abuses from employers, and some people might be forced to accept such work hours.

I can understand that, but only because I lived and worked in London, England for a period of time. The work culture in America is a bit more aimed towards the corporations/companies and not so much on the individual or employee. Nowadays, we're seeing an "uptick" even from that due to conservatives being in power (the majority in Congress, the power of the Executive Branch). The remote work/telecommuting thing has been getting more popular in the United States because it shows that there are some who can maintain a stronger level of productivity despite "at-home distractions" (i.e., like this forum or Reddit, Discord/Slack, etc). I don't really see the amount I work as excessive (again, cultural differences) because I make enough that I feel warrants working that much. It would be a different story if I was making $30,000-60,000 a year. But since the company values my work enough to pay me much more than that, I believe that my work should reflect the amount they pay me.

And yes, there are some companies that abuse this logic tremendously. Even this company had a horrible "home/work balance" when I started. Things are getting better, but only marginally. :)
 

Clix

Banned
Grow up. I was responding to someone who asked for the perspective from an American, and I provided that perspective. I'm not judging anyone.

I am plenty grown up, and I am just telling you how you came off right there. Maybe you don't see it, but that is how it came off.

lol if I had known you were gonna be so shitty I wouldn't have bothered typing up that reply.[/QUOTE]

I am not being shitty. I am telling you how some of the responses seem to come off. Just how I cannot tell you how you should feel, don't tell me how I should feel.
 

Clix

Banned
By no means have I been trying to insinuate that Americans are "superior" to the rest of the world. I've been the first to admit that there are cultural differences between the work ethics/expectations of Americans versus many countries. Our CEO is French and started giving us more PTO (we all started out with 1 week of PTO per year, even those who have been at the same company for 10-12 years) because he felt it was very unfair to the work culture - to expect so much work with so little time off.



I can understand that, but only because I lived and worked in London, England for a period of time. The work culture in America is a bit more aimed towards the corporations/companies and not so much on the individual or employee. Nowadays, we're seeing an "uptick" even from that due to conservatives being in power (the majority in Congress, the power of the Executive Branch). The remote work/telecommuting thing has been getting more popular in the United States because it shows that there are some who can maintain a stronger level of productivity despite "at-home distractions" (i.e., like this forum or Reddit, Discord/Slack, etc). I don't really see the amount I work as excessive (again, cultural differences) because I make enough that I feel warrants working that much. It would be a different story if I was making $30,000-60,000 a year. But since the company values my work enough to pay me much more than that, I believe that my work should reflect the amount they pay me.

And yes, there are some companies that abuse this logic tremendously. Even this company had a horrible "home/work balance" when I started. Things are getting better, but only marginally. :)

Thank you for your reply. This puts it a bit more into context, especially when using the example of the French CEO. My PTO is an absolute joke. Not even sick days or personal days. Not even unpaid if its urgent. And then I looked into what kind of benefits are provided in this country to workers regarding PTO, sick days, etc... and I was shocked.
 

sleepInsom

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,569
I am plenty grown up, and I am just telling you how you came off right there. Maybe you don't see it, but that is how it came off.

I am not being shitty. I am telling you how some of the responses seem to come off. Just how I cannot tell you how you should feel, don't tell me how I should feel.

It honestly sounds like you're not mature to discuss these cultural differences. Do you prefer people to lie about the American perspective in order to not offend your sensibilities. Different parts of the world have different mindsets for different reasons. My family is European so I'm familiar with both sides of the coin. Europeans tend to favor the family while Americans tend to favor the individual. There are obviously going to be societal pressure driving these pespectives, but mentioning what these are apparently is offensive.
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,235
There is a broad spectrum between people that are physicall kicked out of the house at 16/18, through to people mooching off their parents living at home in the basement until their 40s. In between is the likely norm, and there will be variance between cultures and countries. Thats all fine.

I can appreciate the idea of moving out as soon as you think you can manage - both to build independence and to have a space to call your own. This doesn't need to be you pushed out, but can be a natural move on your part and done within a loving family environment.

Likewise I can understand the increasing practicality of staying at home to reduce living expenses in order to try and save up for a place of your own and branch out more gradually.

As a parent I'd tend towards preferring the second option for my kids, but would try to understand if they want to go for it on their own at 18 - they'll know they have a safety net if they need it. If they did choose to stay at home I would expect them to cover their share of the bills - food, heating, internet etc. I'd also look for a token rent (which I'd just put in a savings account in case they need it later on). I wouldn't want to be in a situation like the person in the OP though. That roof over your head is training wheels. Let you get used to independence but with security behind you. It isn't a blank cheque to do nothing at all.
 

Deleted member 3862

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
940
These are all of my benefits:

  • Eight weeks of paid holiday (this is 40 days off a year, weekends are assumed "off" when putting in long requests like these but do not count towards your total days).
  • Unlimited sick leave (I can, technically, call out of work for any illness. But I reserve it for when I'm really feeling like death and need proper rest). They even support what are called "Sanity Days" - days where you've reached your maximum stress limit and just need a day to go to an arcade/barcade or sit in the middle of a park and chill.. whatever you want to do.
  • 401(k) contributions matched, up to $1000 per month (which means I have about $2500 going into my 401(k) per month).
  • 10% of salary contributed by the company to your retirement fund (as long as you contribute at least 3% of your salary to it, I contribute 5%).
Where do you work and are they hiring? I'm polishing up my resume right now.
 

Clix

Banned
I am not being shitty. I am telling you how some of the responses seem to come off. Just how I cannot tell you how you should feel, don't tell me how I should feel.

It honestly sounds like your not mature to discuss these cultural differences. Do you prefer people to lie about the American perspective in order to not offend your sensibilities. Different parts of the world have different mindsets for different reasons. My family is European so I'm familiar with both sides of the coin. Europeans tend to favor the family while Americans tend to favor the individual. There are obviously going to be societal pressure driving these persorctives, but mentioning what these are apparently is offensive.[/QUOTE]

I am not mature enough to discuss this? Okay. Sounds a bit like deflecting when I said some of the wording used comes off the way I expressed it did. But sure. A few other posters manage to respond in a better way. It's not about lying, but it's about explaining the perspective instead of making it seem that said perspective is the absolute. Especially that more and more in this country we are seeing more immigrant families coming in with their own values as well, so the American as it used to be known, is going to have to have a shift in meaning.
 

Thorn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
24,446
Let's not forget that the "live on your own at 18" is a post WWII Boom Relic that refuses to go away.

The idea of owning a home after graduating high school is laughable today.
 

Forearms

Member
Oct 25, 2017
595
Let's not forget that the "live on your own at 18" is a post WWII Boom Relic that refuses to go away.

The idea of owning a home after graduating high school is laughable today.

Literally no one expects this. You move out with friends or find a room mate. It's not hard, and people do it all the time.
 

Necromanti

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,565
Basically, I scraped, saved, and finagled my way though the five years following my graduation from high school. I did have to take a year off in the middle of college because I was scared to take out any more loans, and boy was that ever rough, but I think I learned more in that hell-ish year off than at any other time--namely, what I actually needed vs. what I wanted. It's served me pretty well in life since.

Anyway, your situation (and your country's) is completely different. Staying at home makes sense because of the economic climate in addition to cultural reasons. Nothing wrong with that. For the US and other Western countries, though, I think the idea that leaving the nest is beneficial for maturity/what you do as an adult makes sense too (for some), or, as long as the kid is moving forward somehow (school, work, etc.), then staying at home is perfectly reasonable as well.
I don't know if I'm remembering correctly from the old place, but didn't you talk about some of the hardships you went through in a period of your life? I remember you talking about having to dig through the trash or something to find food and eating half-moldy bread. (Something along those lines.) Anyway, it sounded very desperate and trying. (Not to mention terrifying.) And while you might have seen it as a learning experience, I know that if and when I have children, I wouldn't want them to have to endure that if I had the means to alleviate that level of poverty or hardship. There's certainly a balance.
 

LogicAirForce

Member
Oct 25, 2017
937
I am plenty grown up, and I am just telling you how you came off right there. Maybe you don't see it, but that is how it came off.

lol if I had known you were gonna be so shitty I wouldn't have bothered typing up that reply.

I am not being shitty. I am telling you how some of the responses seem to come off. Just how I cannot tell you how you should feel, don't tell me how I should feel.[/QUOTE]
And your response came off as shitty. The poster you replied too wasn't being a jerk or trying to say you absolutely have to do things this way, they explained how things are in America. You got offended for some reason and replied with some snarky bs. You can feel however you want but it doesn't make you right.
whoops I seem to have somehow messed up the quotes?
 

Hassel

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,363
Let's not forget that the "live on your own at 18" is a post WWII Boom Relic that refuses to go away.

The idea of owning a home after graduating high school is laughable today.


What a warped perspective.

Get 3 friends from school and rent a place.
Grow as a person, learn who you really are.
 
I don't know if I'm remembering correctly from the old place, but didn't you talk about some of the hardships you went through in a period of your life? I remember you talking about having to dig through the trash or something to find food and eating half-moldy bread. (Something along those lines.) Anyway, it sounded very desperate and trying. (Not to mention terrifying.) And while you might have seen it as a learning experience, I know that if and when I have children, I wouldn't want them to have to endure that if I had the means to alleviate that level of poverty or hardship. There's certainly a balance.

Yeah, that's the "hellish-year off" I referred to in the post you quoted. The struggle was definitely real. A lot of it was pride, though. I could have gone home, but I was determined to make it on my 'own' (I made it thanks to friends' floors, a kindly aunt, sympathetic restaurant owners, the hardiness of my gutetc.). It probably wasn't the brightest thing to do, but I'm stubborn. It totally was a learning experience, though! That's when I was apprenticed to a baker, saw 9/11 firsthand, rolled around Italy for a while, went to Egypt, sold art, learned to budget like no one's business...

EDIT to add: I agree with you, though. I wouldn't want my kid to do that. That's why I plan on doing a softer approach with mine while still strongly encouraging self-sufficiency and independence.


They were bagels. Stale, moldy bagels. :D[/SPOILERS]
 
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Oct 30, 2017
3,005
What a warped perspective.

Get 3 friends from school and rent a place.
Grow as a person, learn who you really are.

Why would you live with people you do t know. What's wrong with living with people to do know like family and saving a ton of money on rent. And me living with parents has not enabled me to grow as a person. This is coming from a person who owns a house, looking to buy a 2nd house, with a 50k salary. I have friends who moved out and rented with friends, still doesn't own a home downstairs have a career. Would you say because that friend of mine is living with friends instead of with parents has grown more than me?
 
Oct 27, 2017
12,238
Also, lmao at the 'fuck the system/capitalism/being a wageslave' comments.

Don't want to be in an office? Be a rockstar, do youtube videos, walk dogs. Whatever. Do something, contribute and make the world a little better.

Otherwise, don't be surprised when the worlds turns its back on you.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,466
On the topic of cultural differences, I did always envy my friends in university whose parents paid half/all of their rent while they got to enjoy the benefits of living on their own. My mom always said it was a "stupid American thing" whenever I said I wanted to move out for school and my dad said Syrians love their kids more than Americans and don't kick them out. So I wasn't actually able to move out until I could 100% afford it myself and thank fuck for that I think I'd honestly rather be dead than living under my parents roof/rules at 25+ and married.

Like yeah it's culture and you save money but I wouldn't be able to live like that and that's coming from someone who didn't get the average American cultural experience growing up
 

Hassel

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,363
Why would you live with people you do t know. What's wrong with living with people to do know like family and saving a ton of money on rent. And me living with parents has not enabled me to grow as a person. This is coming from a person who owns a house, looking to buy a 2nd house, with a 50k salary. I have friends who moved out and rented with friends, still doesn't own a home downstairs have a career. Would you say because that friend of mine is living with friends instead of with parents has grown more than me?


You don't know your friends?
 

andrespi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
88
You don't know your friends?
High school friends with whom you barely have shared classroom. You can't possibly know how they live on their own, how they are going to behave, if they will pay rent regularly, if they are clean, if they get drunk (a huge problem), if they are are heavy on alchool while alone for first time, how long they are really gonna stay there and so on. One thing is meeting them in class (I suppose we are talking abut 18-19 years old), or maybe at a bar or so on, another is how they will behave in a flat on their own.

Good luck also if you signed with a single lease for the whole flat instead of each person renting their own room with 3 different leases, and they don't pay. One would be responsible to pay for them too, which happened to one of my friend and has no way of getting that money back since he had to pay his friends' share (asking his own parents because he couldn't possible afford to pay also the rent of the other person) while he found new tenants and has no real way to get that money from friends. This is also without considering that here in many european countries with a lease contract you are stuck for at least 8 years (for leaving with no notice) or 6 months notice during the lease (but you can forget they will give you good references so good luck finding a good flat without some crazy deposit later own when they will ask for references) so if anything bad happens and you have to leave in two months, you will still be liable for the whole 6 month notice.

Personally I shared a few flats while at uni (3 years), and it was the most awful experience. After that I promised myself, I would save as much as I could (which here in southern europe is realistically only possible while staying at my parents) until I could afford a house on my own (at 31 finally reached a stable situaiton that I can move out), which is what most people should aspire if they work full time, otherwise no sense wasting money living with strangers if they can't live on their own.

And I think I have grown just fine and can take care of my own, even if I spent my late 20s at my parents. Saying that if you don't live on your own after 18, you don't grow up/find yourself is very arrogant (like the other poster above did).
 
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Kevers

The Fallen
Oct 29, 2017
14,637
Syracuse, NY
I have seen people who reply to this with "Guess ill kill myself then. "

To some, the idea of being a "wage slave" is a fate worse than death.

This is honestly how I feel and no matter how much I try to work on it or discuss the issue with my counselor the thought of having another 40 some years of being completely miserable every day just makes me want to end it all. I don't get anything out of life that makes me want to live that life, as much as I enjoy having money to spend on things being unhappy every waking moment just isn't worth it for me. I've been dealing with a lot of depression issues the last few years and I know being pressured to find a full time job or get kicked out of my house just doesn't help. I'm supposed to start a job today and I've been up all night with insane anxiety because my friend recommended me for the job so I can't fuck up because of him, and the threat of being kicked out of the house if I lose this job is always on the table. I'm in a no-win situation atm. Also I do help around the house and have regular chores I have to do but that just isn't enough for my step-dad he wants $400 out of my paycheck as soon as I get paid.
 

Endaeias

Member
Jan 11, 2018
308
Thank you for your reply. This puts it a bit more into context, especially when using the example of the French CEO. My PTO is an absolute joke. Not even sick days or personal days. Not even unpaid if its urgent. And then I looked into what kind of benefits are provided in this country to workers regarding PTO, sick days, etc... and I was shocked.

Yeah, American culture doesn't exactly suggest that companies supply their employees with an abundance of paid time off or sick days. Until I got finished my degrees and got into a "degree-utilized position" (which are kind of hard to get these days), I worked in fast food or grocery stores where your PTO means that there's a chance that a shift supervisor or manager will start cutting your hours because you're "not reliable". Then you're kind of in the balance of "should I keep pushing myself so that I can get 40+ hours and not have a day off? Or should I try to get another job and work 20-25 hours at each place so I can make ends meet but possibly get one day off?". It's definitely not a happy-go-lucky balance. When I moved to the current company and got a week off, I was impressed (seriously lol). Now, the minimum is 2 weeks for new hires and 3 weeks for seniors. I've negotiated my way up to 40 holiday/PTO days in lieu of salary increases.

Where do you work and are they hiring? I'm polishing up my resume right now.

I think we're going through a freeze period until this fall. Keep in mind that most of these benefits come after being at the company for 3 or 5 years. They don't start out that lucrative.
Also, I forgot that healthcare is in there as well - mandatory but it's only about $90 out of pocket (per month). I'll DM you whenever I see an opening. Could you at least tell me the roundabout positions you'd be looking for (if you're still interested after this fact).

On the topic of cultural differences, I did always envy my friends in university whose parents paid half/all of their rent while they got to enjoy the benefits of living on their own. My mom always said it was a "stupid American thing" whenever I said I wanted to move out for school and my dad said Syrians love their kids more than Americans and don't kick them out. So I wasn't actually able to move out until I could 100% afford it myself and thank fuck for that I think I'd honestly rather be dead than living under my parents roof/rules at 25+ and married.

Like yeah it's culture and you save money but I wouldn't be able to live like that and that's coming from someone who didn't get the average American cultural experience growing up

Yeah, I kinda get it. My family wasn't too fixated on making sure that I felt loved. I was kicked out at age 16 but hadn't lived at home for a year by then (was in Japan for 11 months beforehand). You kind of get used to being alone, which is why I said a lot of these comments confuse me due to how alien it feels to me. If I had a supportive family, I think I would have preferred to have been able to save my money after college and then move out. At the end of the day: "to each their own". But I do think if you're living at home when you already have children is a bit ... excessive? Not trying to be judgmental as there are multiple factors playing into that equation. But ... at the end of the day, when you're an adult, your parents aren't going to do everything for you. Sometimes, eventually, one has to take personal responsibility for how their life is going.
 

andrespi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
88
Yeah, I kinda get it. My family wasn't too fixated on making sure that I felt loved. I was kicked out at age 16 but hadn't lived at home for a year by then (was in Japan for 11 months beforehand). You kind of get used to being alone, which is why I said a lot of these comments confuse me due to how alien it feels to me. If I had a supportive family, I think I would have preferred to have been able to save my money after college and then move out. At the end of the day: "to each their own". But I do think if you're living at home when you already have children is a bit ... excessive? Not trying to be judgmental as there are multiple factors playing into that equation. But ... at the end of the day, when you're an adult, your parents aren't going to do everything for you. Sometimes, eventually, one has to take personal responsibility for how their life is going.

Damn, that's harsh. Being kicked out at 16 is really harsh, can't imagine something like this. Were there no social services or anything? I mean even when you went to live alone, how could you sign anything, like a lease or a bank account? Wasn't there the risk of someone calling social services to find an accomodation for young people abandoned? Didn't the landowner call cops or social services seeing someone so young alone? I don't know so they could find an adoptive family or more probably a communal structure/institute for abandoned teeneagers? I mean in my country police would have probably arrested someone kicking their children out at 16 if it became public knowledge.
 
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LunaSerena

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,525
I don't understand this American concept of having to leave home at 18 or 22 (post college) and be on your own. It's so weird to me. As I mentioned before, in my culture the only reasons for leaving home post 18 are: You are getting married, you are shacking up with your significant other, you are moving away either for job, school, whatever. It's not uncommon for unmarried children to still live at home in their 30's if they are not married or living with their other.

Put it this way, my brother is a VP at a media company and he makes bank. He lived at home until he was around 32 years old when he went to live with his girlfriend whom he planned to marry (and he did).

That being said, everyone in the household is expected to help out if they remain in the household post college once they enter the workforce. House expenses are treated as a pool everyone that is an adult puts into. But even those that move for whatever reason, it circles back. That is why it is very rare to see someone at a group home for the elderly in Spanish culture. Maybe it is a Mediterranean thing, because my wife who is Italian lived at home until we moved in together and I know none of the elderly in her family are in a home and she flat out told me that her mother will live with us if she ever gets to old to take care of herself one day and her husband passes.

I know I lived on and off at my parent's home until I moved in with my girlfriend (now wife). She lived with her mom until we moved in together too.

I am sure other countries are similar in values to America but I am only pinpointing America because it's the one I am familiar with since this is where I moved to when I was a kid. So yeah, while I agree that the 30 year old should be working and helping out around the house - I am not debating that - serious question: What is it with American's and giving children the boot at 18/22 from the house?

This. My culture descents from the spanish (I´m chilean) and I we don't really see the issue with moving away from home so quickly. We are expected to help with houselhod expenses and chores - if not they are damn leeches. The cost of life is too high to move out when you are in college, only rich kids can afford that, and afterwards, people move out usually if their commute to work is stupidly long or if they want to live with their girlfriends/boyfriends.

A group home for the elderly is considered a last choice for a parent. I infinitely prefer to live with Mom and look after her myself.