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Deleted member 47318

User requested account closure
Banned
Sep 1, 2018
994
This is the takeaway people should have. Where critical reception for the campaigns of Advanced Warfare, Infinite Warfare, and WWII was generally positive, Black Ops 3's campaign was almost universally negatively received. It's the very worst of Call of Duty level design paired with an extremely schlocky and needlessly overcomplicated plot that's purposefully written to make as little sense as possible.

I absolutely expect Infinity Ward and Sledgehammer's next CoD titles to have campaigns. I'll bet that we never get a Treyarch campaign again, and only see further iterations of Blackout.

WWII is a cromulent campaign, but is completely unambitious and unoriginal for the series (there are maybe two or three missions in the game that haven't already been featured in previous Call of Duty titles). Every time it treads close to political commentary, it basically taps it on the nose and says "there, we did it, praise us for being ambitious!"

For instance, one character expresses an anti-Semitic sentiment in the opening of the game, and makes a racist remark to the sole black guy in the story. He later apologizes to the black guy in the end, and the writers expect us to think this jackass (who's barely shown onscreen for anything besides these two events) is supposed to have "developed as a character", or something.

The rest of the cast isn't much better. The fact that they can only die in cutscenes is really damn stupid, and they're so poorly characterized that my only real reaction to the death of one squadmate was, "oh, the guy who gave me ammo is dead, dang. Now I'm going to need to change guns every so often."

As far as level design goes, it's perfectly fine, and the art direction is strong. The things you do in each level are varied enough, and the weapon variety is decent. What isn't great, however, is the fact that the bland central cast of characters (a transparent attempt to ape Saving Private Ryan and Band of Brothers) and rehashed levels (basically "The Greatest Hits of WWII's Western Front") make WWII feel like "WWII: The Movie: The Game".

It is cliche, uninterested in telling new stories, and winds up coming off as the most inoffensive Call of Duty game to date, even though it's the first one to depict things like sexual assault, racism and anti-Semitism, and GI labor camps. It's actually impressive how fucking bland it winds up being, in spite of all of that.

Zombies mode is pretty good, tho.
That's a damn shame to hear. Wish they'd have gone with Advanced Warfare 2 last year instead then.
 

Dr. Caroll

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,111
It is crazy how some posters don't seem to understand that the COD fanbase (same goes for Battlefield etc) generally just don't care about SP.

People quote the % of people getting the SP trophies/cheevos but how many of those play it cos it is there but mainly play MP?

Its just an MP focussed game. I strongly think these MP focussed games should forget their rubbish SP campaigns and focus on strong MP offerings. BFV would be far better off if it ditched the campaign and had more MP maps etc....
This kinda overlooks that multiplayer is simply more popular than singleplayer regardless of series or genre. Counter-Strike and Team Fortress are far, far, far more popular than Half-Life, for instance. A singleplayer game will never sell the kind of numbers that multiplayer games do, at least not consistently. The reason these fanbases don't care is a demographics problem. The Rainbow 6 fanbase doesn't care about singleplayer because Ubisoft cultivated an MP fanbase with Siege. Does this mean that Rainbow 6 shouldn't feature a campaign because this new audience doesn't care about it? Arguably no.

Taken to its logical premise, you've basically got: "Don't bother making singleplayer games because any singleplayer game that ends up with popular multiplayer will attract an audience that doesn't care about singleplayer and then it's all over." This is a trend that goes back to GoldenEye. GoldenEye was a singleplayer game. Its chief contributions to game design revolved around its campaign. It sold 8+ million copies in part because it had popular multiplayer. A lot of GoldenEye MP fans consider the game to be "MP oriented" because that was the part of the game they cared about.

MP fans can "claim" a series in basically one entry. Look at Call of Duty. CoD 4: Modern Warfare was the game that sold many times more copies than its predecessors, and in the process gained a new audience that didn't care about singleplayer. In the space of a year Call of Duty gained an audience with sentiments like, "Why would you buy this for the campaign?" Like I said, a huge bulk of Rainbow 6's audience thinks the series is "MP oriented". They've never played a Rainbow 6 game before Siege. They especially haven't played the original trilogy.

The same thing happend to Titanfall. The original game's campaign had to be scrapped due to money issues. This meant that Titanfall 1's audience was entirely MP folks. Then along comes Titanfall 2. Its campaign gets great raves, just like its sister game, Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare. But Titanfall 2 was perceived as "MP-oriented". Despite widespread acclaim there was a sentiment of "Why would you buy this for the campaign?" This happens to any series that gains a dominant multiplayer fanbase. And multiplayer fanbases typically dominate through demographics.

Looking back, imagine if Crysis 2 had managed to hit it big with its multiplayer, which was designed by Crytek UK, aka Free Radical. Crysis 2 sold okay. But its campaign got great reviews and it's a well liked game for good reason. Crysis is regarded as a singleplayer series. Its MP never really took off. Crysis 2 multiplayer is pretty damn good. It just failed to find an audience, particularly on consoles, kinda like Titanfall 2, a game it bears interestingly resemblance to.

But imagine an alternate scenario. Imagine Crysis 2 selling 5-10 million copies. It's still the exact same game. It just had better marketing and it went viral. Crysis 2 would have gained a huge multiplayer fanbase in the process. Then Crysis 3 would come along 2 years later. In the real world, Crysis 3 was a huge flop. But imagine an alternate scenario where Crysis 2 had a huge MP fanbase and they went out and bought Crysis 3. In the space of a single game, you've ended up with a game becoming "MP oriented" not because anything changed on the game's end but because its demographics changed. Nothing really changed with Call of Duty. But Call of Duty 4 gained a new demographic that was significantly bigger than the audience that plays singleplayer FPS games. Singleplayer FPS games don't sell 30 million copies.

What I'm trying to get at is that this attitude leaves developers between a rock and a hard place. If they try to keep their game "pure" by refusing to add multiplayer they risk low sales. (Just as Machinegames and Wolfenstein II. Future Wolfenstein games are gonna have MP in them. There's no alternative.) But if they add multiplayer there's a risk it'll backfire and they'll gain millions of fans who don't care about the part of the game they put so much heart and soul into. It's like running a fish and chip shop and your coffee becomes hugely popular. The new coffee audience doesn't give a shit about fish and chips. Your fish and chip audience still comes to your shop. But the coffee audience is huge and vocal and constantly complaints that you "waste your time" with the fish and chip audience that is smaller than them, and they resent that they have to wait in line for coffee because you're serving fish and chips, too. This is a fairly one sided thing. Singleplayer fans don't typically take over multiplayer series. It's just demographically improbable. MP is bigger. Always will be. Battlefield games can have the best campaigns in the world, but the audience that wants to play Battlefield MP will always be bigger.

Look at Battlefield: Hardline. They could have branded it differently. It's basically a police stealth game wearing the Battlefield brand. But the Battlefield MP audience is huge. It makes sense to try and sell copies to them. Trying to sell a game like Battlefield: Hardline as a singleplayer experience with no multiplayer would have been suicide. That's just the reality of it. It's why Dead Space 3 is a co-op game. EA call these games Battlefield because that's a brand with a huge inbuilt MP audience that will buy these games. It's the same reason Activision insist these games are called Call of Duty. Modern Warfare was supposed to be a different series. But Activision didn't want that. Something like Infinite Warfare, for instance, could have been sold as a completely separate IP. A singleplayer sci-fi shooter. But the Call of Duty brand means more sales. The problem is the Call of Duty audience is so heavy dominated by multiplayer fans. You gain more sales because there's so many of them. But you taint your game, basically. Infinite Warfare would have been a universally acclaimed singleplayer FPS if simply called Infinite Warfare. But because it was called Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare, it had all the baggage of the angry Call of Duty multiplayer fanbase that didn't care how good the campaign was. They need those sales.
That's a damn shame to hear. Wish they'd have gone with Advanced Warfare 2 last year instead then.
It wasn't palatable due to the immense backlash against Infinite Warfare that has since vanished into nothing because millions of people managed to become "sick" of WWII games in approximately 12-24 months.
 

BassForever

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
29,972
CT
This seems like a testament to how massive the fanbase is for cod multiplayer then any testament on sp campaigns not being a draw.
 

Deleted member 47318

User requested account closure
Banned
Sep 1, 2018
994
It wasn't palatable due to the immense backlash against Infinite Warfare that has since vanished into nothing because millions of people managed to become "sick" of WWII games in approximately 12-24 months.
I think the bigger issue here was that despite being on a three studio cycle, all three studios were on the sci-fi train for at least half a decade: Blops 2, Ghosts, Advanced Warfare, Blops 3 and then Infinite Warfare.

Probably doesn't help that Titanfall (2) and Destiny came into existence this gen, either. Not to mention Halo also still being around.

I'm assuming that the thing to tire people of the "world war" games is that we got several one after the other as well: BF1, CoD WWII and now BFV. It's not as novel a concept anymore as it was back in 2016.

Anyhow, what I hope for is for the non-Treyarch studios to get on a proper cycle between old and new settings, as Blops is sadly too strong a brand to just go away. The rumor was that Infinity Ward got put on a Modern Warfare sequel, right?
 

Trisc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,491
That's a damn shame to hear. Wish they'd have gone with Advanced Warfare 2 last year instead then.
According to some leaks and rumors, that was the plan until Activision forced them to ditch all their pre-production plans for AW2 and put WWII out.
Those steps don't even make sense.

Only Black Ops 3 had a legit bad campaign. Ghosts was mediocre, but WWII was pretty good, and AW and IW were both excellent with the latter being one of the best in the series.
I'd definitely put AW before IW, but only because IW fails where AW succeeds: character development. The only castmembers who get any real growth in the story are Reyes and Ethan, while the rest of the cast makes do with breadcrumbs of character growth here and there (or none at all, so their emotional stake in the story is entirely moot).

AW kept the cast small, and its story was able to really work as a result. It also helps that the game's level design and gameplay variety is phenomenal, so while IW's ship raids and strike missions were really fun, I didn't find them nearly as engaging as the long stretch of varied levels and locales that AW had to offer. Doesn't make IW bad, it just means I hold it in slightly lower regard than AW.
 

TheRulingRing

Banned
Apr 6, 2018
5,713
This kinda overlooks that multiplayer is simply more popular than singleplayer regardless of series or genre. Counter-Strike and Team Fortress are far, far, far more popular than Half-Life, for instance. A singleplayer game will never sell the kind of numbers that multiplayer games do, at least not consistently. The reason these fanbases don't care is a demographics problem. The Rainbow 6 fanbase doesn't care about singleplayer because Ubisoft cultivated an MP fanbase with Siege. Does this mean that Rainbow 6 shouldn't feature a campaign because this new audience doesn't care about it? Arguably no.

Taken to its logical premise, you've basically got: "Don't bother making singleplayer games because any singleplayer game that ends up with popular multiplayer will attract an audience that doesn't care about singleplayer and then it's all over." This is a trend that goes back to GoldenEye. GoldenEye was a singleplayer game. Its chief contributions to game design revolved around its campaign. It sold 8+ million copies in part because it had popular multiplayer. A lot of GoldenEye MP fans consider the game to be "MP oriented" because that was the part of the game they cared about.

MP fans can "claim" a series in basically one entry. Look at Call of Duty. CoD 4: Modern Warfare was the game that sold many times more copies than its predecessors, and in the process gained a new audience that didn't care about singleplayer. In the space of a year Call of Duty gained an audience with sentiments like, "Why would you buy this for the campaign?" Like I said, a huge bulk of Rainbow 6's audience thinks the series is "MP oriented". They've never played a Rainbow 6 game before Siege. They especially haven't played the original trilogy.

The same thing happend to Titanfall. The original game's campaign had to be scrapped due to money issues. This meant that Titanfall 1's audience was entirely MP folks. Then along comes Titanfall 2. Its campaign gets great raves, just like its sister game, Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare. But Titanfall 2 was perceived as "MP-oriented". Despite widespread acclaim there was a sentiment of "Why would you buy this for the campaign?" This happens to any series that gains a dominant multiplayer fanbase. And multiplayer fanbases typically dominate through demographics.

Looking back, imagine if Crysis 2 had managed to hit it big with its multiplayer, which was designed by Crytek UK, aka Free Radical. Crysis 2 sold okay. But its campaign got great reviews and it's a well liked game for good reason. Crysis is regarded as a singleplayer series. Its MP never really took off. Crysis 2 multiplayer is pretty damn good. It just failed to find an audience, particularly on consoles, kinda like Titanfall 2, a game it bears interestingly resemblance to.

But imagine an alternate scenario. Imagine Crysis 2 selling 5-10 million copies. It's still the exact same game. It just had better marketing and it went viral. Crysis 2 would have gained a huge multiplayer fanbase in the process. Then Crysis 3 would come along 2 years later. In the real world, Crysis 3 was a huge flop. But imagine an alternate scenario where Crysis 2 had a huge MP fanbase and they went out and bought Crysis 3. In the space of a single game, you've ended up with a game becoming "MP oriented" not because anything changed on the game's end but because its demographics changed. Nothing really changed with Call of Duty. But Call of Duty 4 gained a new demographic that was significantly bigger than the audience that plays singleplayer FPS games. Singleplayer FPS games don't sell 30 million copies.

What I'm trying to get at is that this attitude leaves developers between a rock and a hard place. If they try to keep their game "pure" by refusing to add multiplayer they risk low sales. (Just as Machinegames and Wolfenstein II. Future Wolfenstein games are gonna have MP in them. There's no alternative.) But if they add multiplayer there's a risk it'll backfire and they'll gain millions of fans who don't care about the part of the game they put so much heart and soul into. It's like running a fish and chip shop and your coffee becomes hugely popular. The new coffee audience doesn't give a shit about fish and chips. Your fish and chip audience still comes to your shop. But the coffee audience is huge and vocal and constantly complaints that you "waste your time" with the fish and chip audience that is smaller than them, and they resent that they have to wait in line for coffee because you're serving fish and chips, too. This is a fairly one sided thing. Singleplayer fans don't typically take over multiplayer series. It's just demographically improbable. MP is bigger. Always will be. Battlefield games can have the best campaigns in the world, but the audience that wants to play Battlefield MP will always be bigger.

Look at Battlefield: Hardline. They could have branded it differently. It's basically a police stealth game wearing the Battlefield brand. But the Battlefield MP audience is huge. It makes sense to try and sell copies to them. Trying to sell a game like Battlefield: Hardline as a singleplayer experience with no multiplayer would have been suicide. That's just the reality of it. It's why Dead Space 3 is a co-op game. EA call these games Battlefield because that's a brand with a huge inbuilt MP audience that will buy these games. It's the same reason Activision insist these games are called Call of Duty. Modern Warfare was supposed to be a different series. But Activision didn't want that. Something like Infinite Warfare, for instance, could have been sold as a completely separate IP. A singleplayer sci-fi shooter. But the Call of Duty brand means more sales. The problem is the Call of Duty audience is so heavy dominated by multiplayer fans. You gain more sales because there's so many of them. But you taint your game, basically. Infinite Warfare would have been a universally acclaimed singleplayer FPS if simply called Infinite Warfare. But because it was called Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare, it had all the baggage of the angry Call of Duty multiplayer fanbase that didn't care how good the campaign was. They need those sales.

It wasn't palatable due to the immense backlash against Infinite Warfare that has since vanished into nothing because millions of people managed to become "sick" of WWII games in approximately 12-24 months.

That's a lot of words and I'm still not sure I understand the point you're trying to prove..

I don't think the publisher really cares about keeping a game "pure" if sacrificing that purity means more sales. If they find the MP audience to be more lucrative then they'd switch to it happily.

Infinite Warfare sold well with a mediocre multiplayer. Even if it had been known as a universally acclaimed SP game that appealed to SP gamers it still wouldn't have come close to matching its current sales.

And your point about MP gamers taking over SP games while the reverse never happens - well, survival of the fittest and all that...
 

Dr. Caroll

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,111
I don't think the publisher really cares about keeping a game "pure" if sacrificing that purity means more sales. If they find the MP audience to be more lucrative then they'd switch to it happily.
Bethesda tried holding out for a few years. They were quite outspoken about their dedication to singleplayer. They released games like Dishonored, Wolfenstein: TNO/TOB/TNC, Prey, The Evil Within, and a few others as singularly singleplayer experiences. Omitting multiplayer was a conscious decision. The presence of multiplayer has a tendency to dilute the narrative prestige of games if the multiplayer becomes too popular. But they gotta swallow that bitter pill.

Multiplayer and multiplayer-oriented monetization schemes are propping up the crumbling games industry as development costs increase year on year and audiences expect more and more from their games. Singleplayer-only experiences do exist, but by and large the huge budget singleplayer-only experiences are open world games stuffed to the gills with content in an attempt to seem like value for money when compared to multiplayer titles that offer thousands of hours of fun. Call of Duty is an example of this issue. Each year or so, a Call of Duty studio produces one of the best singleplayer FPS games ever made. Making the best singleplayer FPS games on the market is not a financially viable business model. You need to attach multiplayer. (Bethesda discovered this the hard way.) There is no alternate. The cost of this is that if your game relies on the multiplayer audience to be successful, it will be labeled a "multiplayer focused" game. And this is a problem because being successful without the multiplayer audience is basically impossible for a huge budget game unless it's open world or subsidized by a hardware manufacturer.
 

AztecComplex

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,371
as has been said for years and years, nobody plays CoD for campaign. this is not surprising
That wasn't always true. During the Modern Warfare days many were invested in the story. I know this because I was one of them. The sniping mission and bomb explosion in MW1, the death of
Ghost
in MW2 were some of the highlights that were often talked about.
 

amnesties

Member
Nov 17, 2017
835
That wasn't always true. During the Modern Warfare days many were invested in the story. I know this because I was one of them. The sniping mission and bomb explosion in MW1, the death of
Ghost
in MW2 were some of the highlights that were often talked about.

people may have played the campaign, however the main attraction was always multiplayer. CoD is the huge franchise it is today mainly because of multiplayer

they could have taken out the campaign from the game years ago and nothing would've changed
 

Dr. Caroll

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,111
people may have played the campaign, however the main attraction was always multiplayer. CoD is the huge franchise it is today mainly because of multiplayer
The irony is that Modern Warfare, the game that shifted CoD's demographics through its extremely popular multiplayer, was supposed to be a different game series, much Titanfall ended up being. But everything gets sucked into the Call of Duty brand vortex.

It goes without saying a vast majority of Call of Duty's current fanbase are not PC gamers and haven't played the original Call of Duty, which was a PC exclusive Medal of Honor spiritual successor whose primary selling point was its extremely cinematic 7 hour long campaign.
 

TheRulingRing

Banned
Apr 6, 2018
5,713
Bethesda tried holding out for a few years. They were quite outspoken about their dedication to singleplayer. They released games like Dishonored, Wolfenstein: TNO/TOB/TNC, Prey, The Evil Within, and a few others as singularly singleplayer experiences. Omitting multiplayer was a conscious decision. The presence of multiplayer has a tendency to dilute the narrative prestige of games if the multiplayer becomes too popular. But they gotta swallow that bitter pill.

Multiplayer and multiplayer-oriented monetization schemes are propping up the crumbling games industry as development costs increase year on year and audiences expect more and more from their games. Singleplayer-only experiences do exist, but by and large the huge budget singleplayer-only experiences are open world games stuffed to the gills with content in an attempt to seem like value for money when compared to multiplayer titles that offer thousands of hours of fun. Call of Duty is an example of this issue. Each year or so, a Call of Duty studio produces one of the best singleplayer FPS games ever made. Making the best singleplayer FPS games on the market is not a financially viable business model. You need to attach multiplayer. (Bethesda discovered this the hard way.) There is no alternate. The cost of this is that if your game relies on the multiplayer audience to be successful, it will be labeled a "multiplayer focused" game. And this is a problem because being successful without the multiplayer audience is basically impossible for a huge budget game unless it's open world or subsidized by a hardware manufacturer.

I don't see the problem with that tbh. Like every industry, the games industry has to constantly adapt to its shifting audience. Sure it sucks a bit for those who enjoy SP to have less variety, but it's better for the majority who prefer MP.

I also disagree that being successful is impossible without multiplayer. It's possible to be profitable, but companies of course want to always be more profitable, which is why they switch to multiplayer.
 

Deleted member 2785

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,119
This seems like a testament to how massive the fanbase is for cod multiplayer then any testament on sp campaigns not being a draw.

It may have sold even more with a campaign. Impossible to say for certain.

And maybe not having a campaign did put some people off (personally, I haven't bought the game for the first time ever) and perhaps this was offset by more people hopping on because of Blackout. ATVI probably knows, I don't have access to player info.

I'm just saying that, looking at month 1 I don't see the lack of SP hurting the game. I thought it may.

I'm certainly NOT saying that "sp is dead" or anything silly like that. Open world SP is doing great. And again, a campaign may have helped the game sell even more. I just don't think not having it hurt it significantly.
 

Dark Ninja

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,073
Well that's what happens when you havent had a good campaign since MW2 anyways
The one with the good campaign didn't sell because the multiplayer was subpar. Infinite Warfare

Either way this shows how much work is put into these games. They have a ton of content and making a battle royale mode is not like flipping a switch im sure they would have liked to put in a campaign too but there just isn't enough time to do everything especially if its the first time doing something. Yet "fans" get in an uproar if a box isn't checked. Will the next game be considered "complete" if it doesn't have a battle royale mode in it?
 
Apr 9, 2018
368
Surely sales could be more front-loaded on this game than previous entries. I know first month sales are important in terms of revenue but it isn't the whole picture.

But yeah, that doesn't disprove the OP claim that lack of SP didn't hurt launch sales figures.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,655
EA says "single player games are no longer popular"

The internet: Fuck you EA.

God of War sells gangbusters and so does Spiderman

The internet: Ha! Fuck you EA

Call of Duty Sales unaffected by lack of single players

The internet: God damnit

Like, I don't understand where this fear that "SP games are going to die" keeps coming from. They obviously aren't.

FFS, Activision is publishing Sekiro. People need to chill
 

Musubi

Unshakable Resolve - Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,687
Call of Duty should just be a service. Build everything around what Black Ops4 has built.