That wouldn't make Epic immune to paying up for prior use. You know that right?
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Rapper 2 Milly plans to sue Epic Games over use of his dance Milly Rock in Fortnite
- Thread starter vestan
- Start date
That wouldn't make Epic immune to paying up for prior use. You know that right?
Nothing personal on him. Its the selective attitude of which ethical issues this place likes to care about or take serious.
Everybody wanted to cry fowl about the "content creator award" and rightfully so but something like this is, "No big deal" "haha good luck"
Nah, I found the origin of the Warcraft female nightelf dance and now I know where it came from. You're inferring that anyone exposed to the dance via fortnite will only ever associate it with fortnite and will never learn of it's origin with 100% absolution across the board. Sorry, but it's not cultural erasure.
As for my opinion on the matter, if the move/dance is distinct enough to copy and sell as an emote, then it should be able to be copywritten. People should be credited/paid for their creations when utilized for profit by others.
When you use something that originates from someone else, and don't state where it originated from, it leads to cultural erasure.
It's baffling to me too why they don't. You don't name an "inspiration" of a product next to it, it would be legal suicide.
A Epic got an artists creation taken down because they had an old miner pick axe on their logo. They claimed it was copyright and got the shirt design taken off. The design was for a paleontology convention, and the person never even heard of Fortnite. Fuck Epic.
You trying to be funny but she banned for your incredulous attitude
Selling the moves is where I personally cross the line. If they were all free, then I still think credit should be given, but it's a much more amicable discussion. But when they start to sell the move, then they are directly profitting from 2 Milly's work.
And the whole "did he create the move himself" discussion isn't even relevant, because the reason why they're selling copies of this DLC is because he made it popular. They owe their sales to his creative work, and to everyone else involved with the original video. Without the song, the video and the dance, this would never take off and achieve meme status, and thus would not be added to Fortnite, or wouldn't sell nearly as much as it probably does.
They definitely owe their success with this DLC, however big it is, to him, his producers, label and whoever else has rights over the original video.
I don't think there's anything up to debate here, they are 100% making money off of his work. If it was free, you could argue they're just providing more funny references for their fans to enjoy, but they're actually selling it.
And the whole "did he create the move himself" discussion isn't even relevant, because the reason why they're selling copies of this DLC is because he made it popular. They owe their sales to his creative work, and to everyone else involved with the original video. Without the song, the video and the dance, this would never take off and achieve meme status, and thus would not be added to Fortnite, or wouldn't sell nearly as much as it probably does.
They definitely owe their success with this DLC, however big it is, to him, his producers, label and whoever else has rights over the original video.
I don't think there's anything up to debate here, they are 100% making money off of his work. If it was free, you could argue they're just providing more funny references for their fans to enjoy, but they're actually selling it.
This guy made a rap video called milly rock and named his dance after himself which Fornite copied and changed the name and profit off
Whether it holds up in court I don't know but he has a case
Separate from being something paid like in Fortnite's case, are parodies or references cultural erasure?
It does eventually lead to cultural erasure. It's great that you could find the original source, but unless Blizzard specifically stated where it came from, they were contributing to cultural erasure by not stating the inspiration. Someone else, by making a YouTube video or whatever showing the dances and their sources, was tying the two together. We are talking about what Epic is doing, not what people independent of Epic are doing to show the source.
Lol whatever my dude. The day when body poses are legal minefields will be a sad day for all creatives who deal with any factor of human body movement in their work. Developers like me, people who work in TV and film, never mind the poor bastards who work with actual dance choreography. Banned for not agreeing with you. Pretty sad, guy.
No, because parodies are usually pretty clear about what the original source is, as are references. They rely on people knowing the source to work.
Not super clear cut, definitely, but I personally don't believe that people should take that chance. One of the examples they gave of a dance move that can't be copyrighted is the grapevine:
(apologies for the crap GIF it's literally the one I could find)
It's clearly popular enough to be an example in copyright law but there are also some clearly unique steps to it. You take a step to the right/left, cross your feet over, and take another step to the right/left. What is objectively different with that compared to Milly's own dance move which can similarly be boiled down to "do a slap gesture to the left, spin your hands around each other, do a slap gesture to the right."? I can't rightly tell you the answer but I've got no doubt that any corporate lawyer worth their salt would be able to. Unlike a specific extract from a song or a book there is no objective limit on what exactly is a "unique" dance move or, as would likely be the case, a "unique" gesture." Considering the lengths media conglomerates go to now to protect their copyright whilst copyrighting anything and everything they can (often having not even made those things themselves) I really don't feel that such ambiguity would be helpful in the long run.
Yes, this would be Epic's argument.
And 2 Milly's lawyer would point out all the minutiae and stylistic choices of the dance move that make it unique and expressive (and a good lawyer would find a lot to point out).
And if they won, yes, a lot of new cases would rise up and a lot of ambiguity would need to be ironed out.
Could it lead to corporations suing the small guys and keeping them down? Yes, it definitely could.
Could it also lead to small guys having legal leverage over corporations that are ripping off their hard work? Yes, it could also do that.
My gut instinct is that, as with music copyright, this would mostly help out popular artists.
Also on the note about people against this "defending big corporations" you do realize these same corporations would probably numb at the bits to take legal action over dances and body movements right?
You know all that copyright shit on YouTube?
Now imagine that but they can now take down videos of people doing a certain dance or meme?
I think that's the underline concern with a lot of people. It's not an attempt to discredit artist.
You know all that copyright shit on YouTube?
Now imagine that but they can now take down videos of people doing a certain dance or meme?
I think that's the underline concern with a lot of people. It's not an attempt to discredit artist.
I imagine the dance in Fortnite has given it more exposure than it could ever have hoped to achieve otherwise. Hell, it could have even sent people to seek out where the dance originated in the first place and given the guy revenue via YouTube. You just never know. Seems kind of weird to me that you could even copyright a dance move though.
I'm not happy with either, it seems ridiculous to do this, and it seems ridiculous to attack pirates, etc. Both sides are trash. Fuck the dick swinging contest, we all gon be dead in a 100 years. Put everything in the public domain.
For real. Court will decide and if you've got a bone to grind it's weird as shot to go after the dude that didn't steal a bunch of other people's work and charge the world $5 for it.
OP
OP
The dance was already extremely popular and viral though. If it wasn't it wouldn't even be in the game. Epic just rebranded it and most people know it as the 'Fortnite Dance'.
Absolutely incorrect, it was a pretty huge thing well before Fortnite took it, and I think the "exposure" from it being in the game was negligible. This is a very widely recognized dance move amongst teenagers and young adults.
They rely on people knowing it, but don't source them directly in most cases, which is what's happening here aside from the whole being sold matter, no? A lot of these are appealing on their referential value.
Jesus fuck, people. Slippery slope this and copyright gone mad that.
The problem is Epic is SELLING these dances as cosmetics. You guys really have no idea why artists are upset a huge company is taking things they thought of, erasing the actual names of it, and then selling it while giving no royalties to the creators? Blah summed it up best.
The problem is Epic is SELLING these dances as cosmetics. You guys really have no idea why artists are upset a huge company is taking things they thought of, erasing the actual names of it, and then selling it while giving no royalties to the creators? Blah summed it up best.
Well, if a big Corp is making money selling something he created, he should win.
People that profits on top of other people works without given credits should be held accountable.
And it doesn't mean nobody can dance anymore, stop with this bs. It's about making money with the dance, been paid with something they did not created.
I know for some (big corps, some white people), they are not used to be called out for profiting on something that is not theirs, it happened through out the history, but time is changing.
People that profits on top of other people works without given credits should be held accountable.
And it doesn't mean nobody can dance anymore, stop with this bs. It's about making money with the dance, been paid with something they did not created.
I know for some (big corps, some white people), they are not used to be called out for profiting on something that is not theirs, it happened through out the history, but time is changing.
Save this argument when a big publisher swings their dick. Both sides are not the same.
Sure, if you strip out who the money goes to, the historical context, where the dances originated from, the nationality of the company, and all the other racial aspects it isn't about race.
It's almost as though I'm arguing specifically about them stealing (borrowing would require permission) from one group because context can change things?
Dance choreography is already a copyrightable thing. You can't just use a dance routine whenever you want. That's copyright infringement.
I have no doubt. But I'd bet money on more people being exposed to it via Fortnite than any other means. Who's to say those people didn't search out the originator and in turn indirectly gave him revenue via YouTube monetisation. They're both likely helping each other out in regards to exposure to their own particualrly mediums. In the sense that people who are aware of the original dance would more likely buy the emote. And people who know the emote from fortnight might end up exposed to Millys dance/discography.
Every thread I read about this debate this scene definitely comes to mind.
What will be interesting is seeing Milly's lawyers convince the court that his dance is more like the routine from West Side Story and less like the Charleston.
Naw foh cause you trying to be funny about something thats serious. Any other thread, somebody would already done got warned and banned for continuous disingenuous posts if they made in your style.
So... if a Jlo dance crew wants to make this move on stage, she needs to pay to the "creator" of the move???
I do use this argument when they swing their dick, but I also feel that a smaller dick being swung is ridiculous, albeit less dangerous.
Works in development and is, for some reason, baffled that the business of dance / stage performance is copywritten but advocates for creative rights.
Could you IMAGINE being this fucking dumb
They were never part of it to be stripped. They've borrowed these uncopywritable moves from all sexes and races.
He has zero chance of winning. You can only copyright an entire choreographed routine meant to be performed by professional dancers, not a few seconds of a dance move. You can't copyright a social dance, which is a few dance moves or a simple routine expected to be repeated by the public for their enjoyment..
User Warned: Hostility Towards Another User
Developers like you? So thieves that profit on the backs of others?
Bet you wouldn't keep this same energy if someone was stealing your game, you dork.
I really don't think the way these dances are implemented could really be considered parody. Obviously I don't make those determinations though.