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Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
You didn't, but others did in this thread (called them sociopaths, people - including a student's mom in the article - said they should be arrested/charged, etc.). On the other hand, I saw no one that called this "normal".
There have been several attempts to normalize their actions. That doesn't mean people are saying it's OK or acceptable, but they're minimizing the severity and actual context of what transpired. You quoted someone, in agreement, essentially saying "yeah, they're just people who didn't know what they were doing dressing up as somebody they knew without the actual context". Arguing that they're "detached from that event". This is a dangerous narrative to push because it's simply not true. They emulated the event. They had prior knowledge and reenacted violence and suicide from the shooters (with actual photographs from the shooting).

Multiple people in this thread are blatantly ignoring or unaware of the disturbing context of what actually happened.

This is very serious and abnormal because of the knowledge they seemed to posses and what they decided to do with it. They weren't just dressing up as a famous person. There has even been the argument presented that "this is just the way high school students are, because of HS shootings; they treat it as a joke". Again, this is not true and a form of normalization. And from the context, it looks highly improbable that this was just done as a simple joke.

However I agree with you that we shouldn't jump to conclusions about their mental state or future actions.
 
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Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,472
I meant detached as in, emotionally detached, not in the sense that they didn't know much about the event. I only meant that since it happened before they were born, they likely didn't feel an emotional connection to it and that could be why they didn't take it seriously enough. Since no one got hurt, I'm perfectly fine with simply letting them get suspended and assume they were stupid edgy teens and not dangerous sociopaths.
 

Sowrong

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
1,442
Calling for an expulsion for this? I think expulsions should be reserved for students that do things that put others in danger. Not some edgelord teenage girls posing for the gram.
 

Cocaloch

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
4,562
Where the Fenians Sleep
I honestly don't really see the issue here other than that it's an indictment of American society that these figures even have such cultural meaning. They are just being edgy teenagers.

It's not surprising that the general response here seems to be the old "throw the book at them" though.

Also repeating the word normalization doesn't constitute an argument in itself.

There's a defense force here for dressing up as Columbine shooters at school. Let that sink in.

God knows any attempt to calm people down when we've got the scent of blood is a defense force. Personally I think these people suffering from "sociopathy" should be drawn and quartered.
 
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III-V

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,827
So school schooter has been normalized (at least in the minds of these young ladies) into a Halloween costume.

Absolutely disgusting
 

Dultimate

Member
Oct 27, 2017
652
Some of you guys keep saying these kids are trying to be edgy. When does it cross the line from edginess? When they actually do inact the events? This shit right here is one step removed from actually becoming school shooters imo.

I mean, what is their state of mind like to put thought and research into these particular individuals? Then dress like them and re-inact their actions.

A billion other people/things they could choose to be and this is what they chose. That shit is not trying to be edgy. That's a call for help.
 

Dultimate

Member
Oct 27, 2017
652
You're pretty casual in your distinction between murder and tasteless activities that don't really harm anyone.

When do people go from being edgy posters on a forum or whatever to being an actual active shooter? I would say that the signs are there along the way and a lot of people dismiss them as being "edgy".
 

Sowrong

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
1,442
When do people go from being edgy posters on a forum or whatever to being an actual active shooter? I would say that the signs are there along the way and a lot of people dismiss them as being "edgy".
I don't know, how often do people who dress as a horror movie murderer on Halloween, actually end up chopping people up? Is there a proven correlation between a Halloween costume and real life actions?
 

Cocaloch

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
4,562
Where the Fenians Sleep
When do people go from being edgy posters on a forum or whatever to being an actual active shooter? I would say that the signs are there along the way and a lot of people dismiss them as being "edgy".

Is this a real question? They do that when they start planning on shooting people.

Ok expell them. Show the others that may try to marginalize school shootings that Adair county school disctrict takes children's safety extremely seriously.

Fuck up some kids lives to send a pointless message on behalf of the Adair county school district.

Man I really hope most of the people in this thread have nothing to do with education.
 

Fiction

Fanthropologist
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,825
Elf Tower, New Mexico
Columbine was two decades ago. High schoolers wouldn't have even remotely been alive at that time. Why are they looking up pictures and shit from Columbine? Dressing like some modern shooter is scary and horrifying. Dressing like some from decades ago shows some real crazy intent and worship that's on another level.

Reignbot lays it out pretty well here.

 

Deleted member 2779

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,045
That's as crass as it gets but I don't see what the benefit of them being expelled and removed from their school community would be.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,540
Astonishingly tone deaf, deeply distasteful, brain off levels of idiocy, off the charts levels of attempted edge.....yep, that's teenagers. Suspension is fine, don't think expulsion is necessarily required. The actual damage to anyone is more or less limited to how offensive they find it.

Columbine isn't that recent but school shootings are continually an issue in America, so there is a vastly greater level of sensitivity around the entire act. Why anyone would choose to dress up and re-enact such an emotive and highly charged subject that is continually refreshed in the national conciousness is beyond me. Idiot teens, but not necessarily dangerous teens.
 

Commodore64

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,264
When I was in high school a kid dressed up like the Columbine shooters the year it happened. He got sent home to change and yelled at a lot.
 

Strike

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,458
badideagiphy-1460582750.gif
 

Heromanz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,202
THere being idiots teen then tere is being idiots teen^3 these teen are the later. The idea that these thought it was alright to dress as two mass shooters in a school is the dumbest fucking thing I have ever heard. They deserve anything that comes to them.
 

ShyMel

Moderator
Oct 31, 2017
3,483
I would be more shocked if the teens doing this were boys. From what I have seen on Tumblr, girls/women make up most of the serial killer/mass murder "fandom" and make shitty posts about how they love the killers, particularly the Columbine shooters, and do dress up stuff like these two girls. Boys/men tend to see the killers as role models and try to enact similar violent crimes.
 
Oct 31, 2017
6,749
Wait, isnt white priviledge when youre a teenager recieving death threats, called out in national media and suspended from education that is the way to a better life?

For something that would have other kids instantly shot by police? Yeah.

They give suspensions to black kids like candy for much less than this bullshit. It's totally white privilege that that's their only punishment so far.

The defense force here making every excuse for why this isn't that bad is distasteful. Dressing up and re-enacting school shooters is way beyond distasteful.

That's as crass as it gets but I don't see what the benefit of them being expelled and removed from their school community would be.

Think of the rest of the school community and not what you think is best for the two school shooter cosplayers who I think many in this thread needs to be reminded are not victims in anyway here

I like how so many posters are getting up in arms at "white privilege" being thrown at these girls while so many others are saying they only need to be suspended not expelled....
 
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Valkerion

Member
Oct 29, 2017
7,279
Should have gotten expelled imo. Need to stop pussy footing around kids being dumbasses with clearly bad ideas. Or at least some massive punishment to make it known how fucked up it is. A few days off school is nothing.
 

Kinggroin

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,392
Uranus, get it?!? YOUR. ANUS.
Fuck these two kids, and their parents. Marginalizing the deaths of Columbine like this. As far as I'm concerned, this is no less disgusting than the teachers who dressed like "the wall" and Mexicans.

Expell them.
 

NimbusCub

Member
Oct 28, 2017
464
Phoenix
It's one thing if they did it in protest of school shooting and to bring attention to it (still not a good idea), but the fact they did it for fun and to shoot "cool pictures" of reenacting the shooting is terrifying.

Expulsion, or mandatory transfer to a school meant to address students with behavior issues may be a good move here, in addition to maybe mandatory community service.
 
Jan 18, 2018
2,696
I meant detached as in, emotionally detached, not in the sense that they didn't know much about the event. I only meant that since it happened before they were born, they likely didn't feel an emotional connection to it and that could be why they didn't take it seriously enough. Since no one got hurt, I'm perfectly fine with simply letting them get suspended and assume they were stupid edgy teens and not dangerous sociopaths.

Eh, I wasn't there but I'm not gonna pretend like I'm the shooters and go to a school and pretend like I'm spraying.
Yall think someone is edgy until they shoot up a church.

I don't know, how often do people who dress as a horror movie murderer on Halloween, actually end up chopping people up? Is there a proven correlation between a Halloween costume and real life actions?

Uhh a movie and an actual real life school shooting where kids actually truly real life died in real life for real, are two different things, my guy.
 

Aomame

Member
Oct 27, 2017
475
I would be more shocked if the teens doing this were boys. From what I have seen on Tumblr, girls/women make up most of the serial killer/mass murder "fandom" and make shitty posts about how they love the killers, particularly the Columbine shooters, and do dress up stuff like these two girls. Boys/men tend to see the killers as role models and try to enact similar violent crimes.
The worship of school shooters is a sad epidemic that is, unfortunately, still happening. I remember seeing a news story reporting that the Parkland shooter has received a lot of fan mail from young women.

I understand how young girls get to this point, though. School shooters -- especially the Columbine shooters -- have been painted by the media and the internet (at times and in certain places) as tortured souls hurt by bullying and lack of sexual affection from women. The Columbine shooters' diaries are publicly available online and both of them are filled with laments about crushes not working out or women not being interested in them. It's not dissimilar to Elliot Rodgers to be honest. The Columbine shooters allowed that loneliness to turn into aggression and, ultimately, horrific violence. (This is not to say that the Columbine shooters were fueled only by incel rage, but it was significant.)

Young women online see that and sympathize with the shooters. They feel that, if these boys only had their love and affection, they may not have killed all those people and themselves. They want to use their love and sexual affection to "heal" broken young men. It's sad but I understand how young women get there, growing up in a society that teaches them that they must expend great deals of emotional labor to appease men and help men temper their violence.

Of course, there's also some level of idolatry there too. Victims of bullying and other perceived social outcasts can grow to admire the Columbine shooters as it's a power fantasy for them of standing up to their aggressors and enacting revenge.

It's such a sad, sad trend on the internet. Without knowing much about the two girls in the story, I can't say what their motives were or where they got this inspiration, but suffice to say the way we handle shooters in the media has got to change.
 

GrimJawz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
612
Canada
Yeah sounds like something a 15 year old would think is funny. Anyway while suspensions are basically meaningless I think a full on expulsion seems like a bridge too far gone for a ultimately victimless infraction, they should have just made them wright a multi thousand word essay about why they we're wrong or something to that effect, while there on that little vacation of theres of course aka the suspension.
 

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,472
Some of you guys keep saying these kids are trying to be edgy. When does it cross the line from edginess?
When people get actually hurt.

Astonishingly tone deaf, deeply distasteful, brain off levels of idiocy, off the charts levels of attempted edge.....yep, that's teenagers. Suspension is fine, don't think expulsion is necessarily required. The actual damage to anyone is more or less limited to how offensive they find it.

Columbine isn't that recent but school shootings are continually an issue in America, so there is a vastly greater level of sensitivity around the entire act. Why anyone would choose to dress up and re-enact such an emotive and highly charged subject that is continually refreshed in the national conciousness is beyond me. Idiot teens, but not necessarily dangerous teens.
Pretty much.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,826
"This is a huge deal."
"This is a big deal, but not a huge deal."
"Stop trying to minimize the severity of the situation."

When someone disagrees with you, it isn't necessary to accuse them of doing harm.
 

Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
I meant detached as in, emotionally detached, not in the sense that they didn't know much about the event. I only meant that since it happened before they were born, they likely didn't feel an emotional connection to it and that could be why they didn't take it seriously enough. Since no one got hurt, I'm perfectly fine with simply letting them get suspended and assume they were stupid edgy teens and not dangerous sociopaths.
Can you quote me next time? This is not an appropriate prerequisite for expulsion. "people physically getting hurt" is not the only thing expulsion is used for, or should be used for.

The normalization of "they're just stupid teens" is really, really disturbing to me, as if this was a "we were young once" type situation.

This is not being edgy. Taking pictures of you and your friend dressed up like dead school shooters who just committed suicide is not edgy (next to literal pictures of the shooting). It's some sick, twisted shit and not treating it with severity only helps desensitize people from the actual events that occur and still occur.
Eh, I wasn't there but I'm not gonna pretend like I'm the shooters and go to a school and pretend like I'm spraying.
Yall think someone is edgy until they shoot up a church.



Uhh a movie and an actual real life school shooting where kids actually truly real life died in real life for real, are two different things, my guy.
Thank you
 

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,472
Can you quote me next time? This is not an appropriate prerequisite for expulsion. "people physically getting hurt" is not the only thing expulsion is used for, or should be used for.

The normalization of "they're just stupid teens" is really, really disturbing to me, as if this was a "we were young once" type situation.

This is not being edgy. Taking pictures of you and your friend dressed up like dead school shooters who just committed suicide is not edgy (next to literal pictures of the shooting). It's some sick, twisted shit and not treating it with severity only helps desensitize people from the actual events that occur and still occur.

Thank you
Please read BuddyDharma's post slightly above yours.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,826
Can you quote me next time? This is not an appropriate prerequisite for expulsion. "people physically getting hurt" is not the only thing expulsion is used for, or should be used for.

The normalization of "they're just stupid teens" is really, really disturbing to me, as if this was a "we were young once" type situation.

This is not being edgy. Taking pictures of you and your friend dressed up like dead school shooters who just committed suicide is not edgy (next to literal pictures of the shooting). It's some sick, twisted shit and not treating it with severity only helps desensitize people from the actual events that occur and still occur.

Thank you
You say you work with teens? I'm kinda surprised your reaction is so severe when you're exposed to them all the time. This kind dark, provocative, edgy humor coming from a couple of teenage girls in a small Kentucky town didn't come across as shocking to me. It's apparent they don't see a school shooting as a real and present threat.

What is this even. I mean. We can agree to disagree if you're done?

When you are this disturbed by this event, it seems like anyone who isn't reacting with the same magnitude is downplaying real issues and contribute to a culture of indifference that harms out society.
 

Cocaloch

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
4,562
Where the Fenians Sleep
I missed a thread when I was banned about this place's approach to justice and plenty of people were insisting that the OP was just imagining the whole thing. This thread's useful for demonstrating that culture here around justice has some real deep seated issues. This thread is full of ideas about punishment and assertions of the severity of the issue without much in the way of actual thought on what this means or how the state can go about protecting the interests of society.

Hurting people to make you feel better because you feel that those that transgressed on what you think is acceptable behaviour need to be punished is not the right approach to anything.

You say you work with teens? I'm kinda surprised your reaction is so severe when you're exposed to them all the time. This kind dark, provocative, edgy humor coming from a couple of teenage girls in a small Kentucky town didn't come across as shocking to me. It's apparent they don't see a school shooting as a real and present threat.

I thought the same thing when I first read that. I work with people a bit older, 18-22 usually, and I've only become less severe with them over time. You'd hope people that deal with kids for a living would have a bit more empathy with them, and be a bit less prone to lashing out for punishment's sake.
 

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,472
What is this even. I mean. We can agree to disagree if you're done instead of dumping off to other posters?
I'm not "dumping off" anything, I just thought he summarized my thoughts pretty well. We obviously disagree on the severity, and that's OK, but accusing people of normalizing or even of creating danger is a bit much, there.
 

Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
You say you work with teens? I'm kinda surprised your reaction is so severe when you're exposed to them all the time. This kind dark, provocative, edgy humor coming from a couple of teenage girls in a small Kentucky town didn't come across as shocking to me. It's apparent they don't see a school shooting as a real and present threat.
That's because this isn't normal behavior. This isn't the typical work of some edgy teen. I know because I have first hand experience working with HS students and have for years. In what way was it shown that this was done as a joke? Or that it was meant to be funny? Schools need to send a message that reenacting school shootings while being dressed up as dead shooters is not acceptable behavior. Staying home for a couple days is nothing. Essentially accepting it as "they're being edgy" does do more harm than good, by helping to normalize this kind of behavior. So I'm not sure what point you were originally trying to make.
I'm not "dumping off" anything, I just thought he summarized my thoughts pretty well. We obviously disagree on the severity, and that's OK, but accusing people of normalizing or even of creating danger is a bit much, there.
..accusing? I'm voicing an opinion (that not treating it severely helps desensitize students and normalize disturbing behaviors). This is not an attack on your person.
 

Cocaloch

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
4,562
Where the Fenians Sleep
That's because this isn't normal behavior.

What is the point of this? Me sitting in the library reading David Hume when I was 14 wasn't normal behaviour. That doesn't matter though, because the actual issue is that you're claiming this is somehow hurtful, but then also not really doing a great job of arguing for why that is and concurrently insisting that everyone that doesn't agree exactly with you is somehow personally and morally wrong.

If you're frequently taking the position that any deviation from your own thought is somehow totally unreasonable then you're probably not thinking well.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,826
I missed a thread when I was banned about this place's approach to justice and plenty of people were insisting that the OP was just imagining the whole thing. This thread's useful for demonstrating that culture here around justice has some real deep seated issues. This thread is full of ideas about punishment and assertions of the severity of the issue without much in the way of actual thought on what this means or how the state can go about protecting the interests of society.

Hurting people to make you feel better because you feel that those that transgressed on what you think is acceptable behaviour need to be punished is not the right approach to anything.



I thought the same thing when I first read that. I work with kids a bit older, 18-22 usually, and I've only become less severe with them over time. You'd hope people that work with kids would have a bit more empathy with them, and be a bit less prone to lashing out for punishment's sake.
Quite. Plus, antisocial behavior in teenagers is not uncommon.

There also people bringing up racism in these topics, too. "Of course people will advocate empathy for these poor white girls." I'm not going to disagree, in principle. Had black boys demonstrated similar behavior, cops would have been called before they stepped foot on school grounds, but I think that is a far broader conversation than this particular topic. Just assume any compassion we argue for should be applied to all kids.
 

Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
What is the point of this? Me sitting in the library reading David Hume when I was 14 wasn't normal behaviour. That doesn't matter though, because the actual issue is that you're claiming this is somehow hurtful, but then also not really doing a great job of arguing for why and concurrently insisting that everyone that doesn't agree exactly with you is somehow personally and morally wrong.

If you're frequently taking the position that any deviation from your own thought is somehow totally unreasonable then you're probably not thinking well.
I have no problem with agreeing to disagree. I'm not saying everybody has to think the way I do. I'm saying that sending a message that simulating school shootings is never acceptable is, IMO, the right move. Because teens are already desensitized enough to this kind of shit.. we don't need normalizing simulating a school shooting thrown into that pile as well.