25 days? I get 3 weeks after working 11 years. Not even eligible for 1 week until you've put over a year in. Not only that but you are demonized if you try to use them or your sick days.
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Why is work so despised?
- Thread starter entremet
- Start date
25 days? I get 3 weeks after working 11 years. Not even eligible for 1 week until you've put over a year in. Not only that but you are demonized if you try to use them or your sick days.
OP
OP
Thanks for the reply. I'm definitely aware of my privilege, but I think there's a tendency to always bring up systemic inequalities in every major discussion. These are points of view I agree wholeheartedly with. This is a fundamental unfair world. But I'm not a fatalist. I think those in privilege should bear more of a burden to improve the current situation.
But when I frame these questions, I'm really framing them as a discussion starting point. That's what threads are. So yes, while we do have systemic issues with the world of work, I'm more interested in the thoughts and experiences people have shared.
But sure, I'm aware of the various and numerous critiques of work. Charles Bukowski has written some very visceral stuff on work. Yet work remains a huge part of the human experience. The whole concept of a dream job is still rather prevalent. And the new internet age has also spurned lifestyle careers. So I wanted to gauge people's thoughts here given how brutally encompassing work is.
Case in fact, I remember reading of young unemployed folks committing suicide in despair. They were not homeless or poor either. But work as identity is all too common. Incredibly tragic but also testament on the power of work in our lives. Work's dominance in our culture is massive.
I live in the UK so by law employers have to give their employees paid holiday leave.
It's about freedom. Money allows people to have freedom of choice many would not normally have. Work is not so bad when it's optional. Not having someone or some corporation having control over whether you can provide the essentials for you and your family removes a huge burden and relieves stress.
At the very least, I like to work because it's creates a standard routine for me.
If I won any amount from the lottery, I would definitely want to keep working though maybe retire early or to an easier job.
If I won any amount from the lottery, I would definitely want to keep working though maybe retire early or to an easier job.
you're most likely going to die a drone who scraped by in life. Of course I'm going to dream of winning a billion dollars and quitting work without a care in the world.
I read how half of Americans make less than $15/hr, so it kinda makes sense. We're overworked and underpaid. One step above cattle.
Agreed, it's completely illogical, I'll never understand it.
I'd be able to work on all kinds of personal projects. Finances are the reason I can't now even though I have the time. Once I have the finances; I won't have the time. While I would almost certainly regularly fill in for local independent pharmacists, I don't know that I would even work part time otherwise. I might would go back to college for shits and giggles.
Most people work because they can exchange said work for money, which allows them to keep a roof above their head and buy food.
So basically, survival. It is not something you do because you want to, but something you need to do in order not to perish and die.
I'll concede some jobs and fields are more rewarding to others, and if you find a workplace to which your values, goals and ambitions somewhat align, it can be, at the very least, tolerable.
But ultimately (and this might be influenced by that other thread about humans going extinct in the next hundred years), I think people despise work because the whole system is based on greed that rewards a very selected few.
About a 100 years ago, a very greedy person decided that it would be a good idea for people to work 8 hours per day, 5 days of the week, in a row, and for some reason, we're still doing that, a 100 years later.
Or, most of the world still is, at least.
On a similar note (greed), the ultimate goal of most (if not all) companies is to generate revenue. To sell. To make money.
People who place a lot of interest in money usually enjoy work. People with "greater" ambitions eventually burn out because they feel a disconnect between their individual goals and beliefs and those of their employer (to make money).
I think most jobs consist of creating solutions to man-made problems, so it is an infinite loop of meaninglessness that ultimately doesn't amount to nothing but numbers (virtual currency, man-made values at this point).
For example, even in the gaming industry, with all of its glory and motivated professionals, how would it be possible for someone whose job consists of creating mechanisms to get people to spend as much money as possible on a gacha game (which is basically gambling and can hardly be categorized as a work of art, as opposed to perhaps other games with higher ambitions) to not despise his job when said job turned the field that person cherished the most into a device made to pray on human weakness and generate numbers on a bank account somewhere?
How does that person keep themselves motivated while knowing they won't make a positive difference in the world, that history won't remember them, and that, ultimately, all of their existence will remain meaningless? Especially when they'd rather use their limited time on this Earth to do something more fulfilling but are prohibited from doing so because of their need to work everyday?
It wouldn't be that bad if people were allowed to just exchange their time for money, using the money they earn to enjoy their life outside work.
But most companies will demand not only your time, but also, for some reason, your loyalty and emotional commitment as well. ("emotional labor")
You have to get to and from work everyday. You need to go to bed early so that you can perform adequately the next day, etc. Suddenly, your entire life revolves about that one aspect of your life.
Furthermore, your also have to worry about reaching long term goals arbitrarily set by your employer if you don't want a decrease in your livelihood, which becomes critical if you need to provide for people other than yourself.
Basically, the current system allows your employer to govern almost every aspect of your life, not just those 8 hours every day.
Suddenly, what started as "working to live" becomes "living to work".
So, it is hard to not despise work when you are forced to live within that very contradiction for your entire adult life, unless you win the lottery or something, for the sake of others.
TL;DR: Nihilism. Excessively long hours, unregulated greed and ultimate lack of meaning.
So basically, survival. It is not something you do because you want to, but something you need to do in order not to perish and die.
I'll concede some jobs and fields are more rewarding to others, and if you find a workplace to which your values, goals and ambitions somewhat align, it can be, at the very least, tolerable.
But ultimately (and this might be influenced by that other thread about humans going extinct in the next hundred years), I think people despise work because the whole system is based on greed that rewards a very selected few.
About a 100 years ago, a very greedy person decided that it would be a good idea for people to work 8 hours per day, 5 days of the week, in a row, and for some reason, we're still doing that, a 100 years later.
Or, most of the world still is, at least.
On a similar note (greed), the ultimate goal of most (if not all) companies is to generate revenue. To sell. To make money.
People who place a lot of interest in money usually enjoy work. People with "greater" ambitions eventually burn out because they feel a disconnect between their individual goals and beliefs and those of their employer (to make money).
I think most jobs consist of creating solutions to man-made problems, so it is an infinite loop of meaninglessness that ultimately doesn't amount to nothing but numbers (virtual currency, man-made values at this point).
For example, even in the gaming industry, with all of its glory and motivated professionals, how would it be possible for someone whose job consists of creating mechanisms to get people to spend as much money as possible on a gacha game (which is basically gambling and can hardly be categorized as a work of art, as opposed to perhaps other games with higher ambitions) to not despise his job when said job turned the field that person cherished the most into a device made to pray on human weakness and generate numbers on a bank account somewhere?
How does that person keep themselves motivated while knowing they won't make a positive difference in the world, that history won't remember them, and that, ultimately, all of their existence will remain meaningless? Especially when they'd rather use their limited time on this Earth to do something more fulfilling but are prohibited from doing so because of their need to work everyday?
It wouldn't be that bad if people were allowed to just exchange their time for money, using the money they earn to enjoy their life outside work.
But most companies will demand not only your time, but also, for some reason, your loyalty and emotional commitment as well. ("emotional labor")
You have to get to and from work everyday. You need to go to bed early so that you can perform adequately the next day, etc. Suddenly, your entire life revolves about that one aspect of your life.
Furthermore, your also have to worry about reaching long term goals arbitrarily set by your employer if you don't want a decrease in your livelihood, which becomes critical if you need to provide for people other than yourself.
Basically, the current system allows your employer to govern almost every aspect of your life, not just those 8 hours every day.
Suddenly, what started as "working to live" becomes "living to work".
So, it is hard to not despise work when you are forced to live within that very contradiction for your entire adult life, unless you win the lottery or something, for the sake of others.
TL;DR: Nihilism. Excessively long hours, unregulated greed and ultimate lack of meaning.
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I don't despair working, but I'm young. I'm only 35.
I love my job, and my industry, and wouldn't trade it for anything.
That said, my job is ALL I have. I don't have a family, or anyone to care for, so my measurement for my own progress in life is my job.
I love my job, and my industry, and wouldn't trade it for anything.
That said, my job is ALL I have. I don't have a family, or anyone to care for, so my measurement for my own progress in life is my job.
Nope. If I win I'm done. I had 10 months off on unemployment after a lay off. Best time of my life. I did what I wanted, when I wanted. It was fantastic.
Working towards a goal or something creative can be rewarding, and is probably something I'd try to do if I was wealthy enough to retire from a day-job. But for the majority of people, work is not fun or rewarding and only something they have to do to survive. I would kill to not have to go back into my office again.
How old is OP? How long has OP been working? Been in plenty of jobs where I enjoy my coworkers, but they always move on to other things. Management can change in an instant and with it the culture you once enjoyed. It's all about the people around and i'd rather not be at the mercy of some manager trying to make their mark on the department...
Routine is what keeps many people afloat and not work, work just often comes automatically with it while when you are free from work then you have to create your own routine in your day to day life. Which can be tough for some people as they are so used to do the daily grind. If you have to plan your own day and don't have the threat of getting trouble with your boss then all that is important is your own discipline and many people would have to put a lot of "work" into that before they can have their own daily routine.
Traveling the world and enjoying life would never get boring to me. There's so much to do and learn with work out of your way.
Actually, the work week was longer; more days, longer hours. It was the unions fighting tooth and nail to bring it down to the 40 hour, 5 day work week we still adhere to today mostly.
If money were literally never a factor I'd probably go back into the work force eventually, but right now there are other things I'd rather focus on in terms of self-development and hobbies. It's ridiculous how much time a job takes from your life too. Maybe I'd just work part-time but it's kinda rough to spend as much time as one spends on a full-time job if you don't really love it in any capacity.
Because, I work my ass off, hoping to become a systems admin, only to watch my company hire someone from outside. I hate life.
I don't think it's "work" or effort that people hate, it's jobs.
Having a job sucks ass. Why would anyone want to be required to do the same thing day in and day out until your body is no longer as much fun to use?
But working on things you have an interest in, not burning out because it's something you enjoy *and* you can do it at a pace that fits the rest of your life, that's the fucking dream. That, and doing it in a society where everyone else gets to do the same thing.
Having a job sucks ass. Why would anyone want to be required to do the same thing day in and day out until your body is no longer as much fun to use?
But working on things you have an interest in, not burning out because it's something you enjoy *and* you can do it at a pace that fits the rest of your life, that's the fucking dream. That, and doing it in a society where everyone else gets to do the same thing.
It's mostly the time you have to give up that I take issue with. I like my job but I've never been happy with the whole 5 days on - 2 days off nature of full-time work. It's just not a very good balance and leaves you feeling like your entire life is just work. It's a real shame we didn't adopt a 4 day working week given all the advances in technology and production.
The vast majority of people work entirely for money so they continue to exist in society. They do it every day just to maintain this cycle until they die, or if they're lucky retire so they can reflect on how they're past the best years of their life. What is there to like?
If you win a billion dollars and want to solve problems and overcome obstacles then buy a rubiks cube
If you win a billion dollars and want to solve problems and overcome obstacles then buy a rubiks cube
I think if I won the lottery, I definitely wouldn't stay in my current job, but I have always had dreams of offering a very centrally located "not-for-profit" recording space for new local musicians and giving them the option to create a demo of decent fidelity and, if they want, sell their music directly from the same location. I would be involved in that and it would, technically, be a job but it would be something I'd want to do.
No lol. That's probably why you have a disconnect. A lot of people are doing physical labor for an income. I'm sure most people would rather have enough money to do whatever they like for the rest of their lives.
There's a reason it's called work and not play. And that pretty much answers the question.
Living to work is what most people do, and it's a shitty waste of our lives.
Living to work is what most people do, and it's a shitty waste of our lives.
Depends. Some people have shit jobs and hate them for good reason. Other people are just lazy like one student I had who's in her mid 20s and said she doesn't want to work cause it's boring. Saying there's no reason to hate work is disingenuous but so is saying work is perfect.
Hell, even some of the GOOD places I've worked have had major problems, even zig zagging between good and bad over the years. One month it's fantastic, the next what amounts to a secret society within the workplace had seized control and every day is miserable. Then a few key members get shifted around within the company and its back to good.
Hell, even some of the GOOD places I've worked have had major problems, even zig zagging between good and bad over the years. One month it's fantastic, the next what amounts to a secret society within the workplace had seized control and every day is miserable. Then a few key members get shifted around within the company and its back to good.
i'm sure most of us would end up doing something productive with our time in the long run even if we were to win the lottery
but 1: it probably wouldn't be whatever it is we are doing for a living now and 2: we wouldn't "need" to do it(which 1: opens up possibilities like opening some sort of passion business that operates at a loss and 2: means having the ability to easily stop and switch over to something else if it gets boring)
is that really so hard to understand?
but 1: it probably wouldn't be whatever it is we are doing for a living now and 2: we wouldn't "need" to do it(which 1: opens up possibilities like opening some sort of passion business that operates at a loss and 2: means having the ability to easily stop and switch over to something else if it gets boring)
is that really so hard to understand?
You can be sure as hell I wouldn't work a single day of my life if I had the kind of money that allows it.
40K/50K a year would do it, really. Not planning on children or buying a house.
I think I could do 20k a year... it's more than what I make right now. I'd live very comfortably.
Hell, give me 10k a year. I'd live same as now, but without having to work.
40K/50K a year would do it, really. Not planning on children or buying a house.
I think I could do 20k a year... it's more than what I make right now. I'd live very comfortably.
Hell, give me 10k a year. I'd live same as now, but without having to work.
Exactly. I'd have the time to spend mastering things closer to my heart. I'd spend more time learning to play guitar better, maybe I'd take lessons for another instrument. I could take time to learn a language. I'd have more time to enjoy books, films, games. I'd travel more, I'd do volunteer work, gardening, maybe I'd learn photography or brick laying or whatever.
I do some of those things now, but they're by necessity slotted in around work. Time is limited and whatever I'm doing there is always the sense that I'm missing out on something else.
That's what a lottery win, or not having to work would give me: Time.
I love my job. I would go crazy if i wouldn't spend at least 30 hours here every week. I'm a biostatistician.
I had this discussion last night and thought about it just now to myself. How would I keep myself busy despite not needing to work due to immense wealth? Two ways.
First:
I'd start a foundation that would seek out creative individuals, with incredible talent. I'd essentially support them, be a patron, allowing them to master their craft and produce without having to worry about the mundanity of paying bills. I'd get them exposure and help kickstart careers in the fields of their choosing. In time, I'd like to see my foundation become a standard in of itself. Businesses from video game developers, record labels and film studios would come to me, seeking talented individuals to help in their creative endeavors and to improve their reputation.
Second:
I'd also help those who are injured or seriously ill. For instance, those being treated for cancer or those who require multiple, lengthy surgeries, just to name a couple. I'd focus on those with reasonable and high survivability. Not to be callous, but those who are very old or highly unlikely to survive would ultimately inspire false hope and be a waste of resources. Ideally, I want to give a second chance to those who would benefit most, primarily, children or those who simply cannot afford medical expenses.
First:
I'd start a foundation that would seek out creative individuals, with incredible talent. I'd essentially support them, be a patron, allowing them to master their craft and produce without having to worry about the mundanity of paying bills. I'd get them exposure and help kickstart careers in the fields of their choosing. In time, I'd like to see my foundation become a standard in of itself. Businesses from video game developers, record labels and film studios would come to me, seeking talented individuals to help in their creative endeavors and to improve their reputation.
Second:
I'd also help those who are injured or seriously ill. For instance, those being treated for cancer or those who require multiple, lengthy surgeries, just to name a couple. I'd focus on those with reasonable and high survivability. Not to be callous, but those who are very old or highly unlikely to survive would ultimately inspire false hope and be a waste of resources. Ideally, I want to give a second chance to those who would benefit most, primarily, children or those who simply cannot afford medical expenses.
Working a regular job after winning a huge jackpot is sheer fantasy, you're not going to do it no matter how many lottery winners claim they're going to, they don't. If you come into a huge sum of money you have the freedom to do whatever you want, if you want to work you can be your own boss, start a business and do it on your terms.
The keyword is... FREEDOM.
The keyword is... FREEDOM.
Most people aren't working their dream job and so it feels like a job. Not something most people want to do.
If you were to win millions and still want to put up with the grind, I'd think there's something wrong with you.
If you do have your dream job and so want to keep doing it, good for you.
If you were to win millions and still want to put up with the grind, I'd think there's something wrong with you.
If you do have your dream job and so want to keep doing it, good for you.
I saw a documentary about lotto winners in germany. One guy blew it all within a year by buying a big house, a boat and going on vacation all the time. Another just paid off all debts put the rest into a savings account for his children and went back to work. And thay guy was a bureaucrat at a government office. So there are certainly such people who just will keep working and live a modest live, knowing that they will not have to worry about money in face of unexpected hardship.
I hate work. I take close to zero enjoyment out of it. I'd much rather focus on my hobbies and creative venues.
It takes such a huge chunk of my life. I actually really enjoy doing what I do for the most part (software dev here, lots of boring boilerplate projects though) so it's not like I dread waking up to work every single morning or anything like that, but it's still 8 hours every single day I'd much rather spend playing or watching shows or reading or hanging out with the GF or drinking or eating out or just.. Lying in bed and doing nothing. Or programming anything I want at home, I guess.
If I won a huge amount of money I'd absolutely just laze around for the rest of my life.
If I won a huge amount of money I'd absolutely just laze around for the rest of my life.
I mean, I have no particular skills or talents. Anywhere I could potentially get a job, I'd just be an easily disposable cog at best, doing something I don't particularly enjoy all the while fretting if today will be the day I'll be replaced by someone better suited for said job, made redundant by new technologies, or just my place of work being closed down for other reasons beyond my control.
That and the few forms of work I might potentially enjoy are things I can't do for one reason or another. Like, the medical field. The idea if becoming something like a GP or a pediatrician would be something that interests me... We're it not for my vasovagal response, which starts making me light-heades and nauseous and stuff as soon as I start cracking open a medical textbook or watching a similar video.
Same with political stuff. Not much use for so much as a volunteer to a political campaign who despises talking on phones and stuff due to social anxiety, never mind knocking on doors.
As far as work goes, the things I'm interested in I can't do for one reason or another. And the things I can do bring me no happiness but rather only an enduring feeling of dread.
-Wake up, eat, etc.
-Check ResetERA for news and what I missed during the night, staying up to date on politics, etc.
-Then on my other monitor load up Twitch and see what I missed during the night there, loading up VODs that catch my interest and even better if I happen to actually catch one of my favorite streamers like Keizaron or FlareRDB live.
-Then pretty much just alternate between then for the day, rinse and repeat.
Of course, I realize to most people that probably sounds terribly boring and how can you possibly keep doing that in perpetuity, etc. But for next, those are just the things I'm most passionate about and that's what makes it work and why I'd love nothing more than to have the option to keep doing that.
My interests are stuff like politics and video games. That kinda lifestyle satisfies both of those and keeps my mind constantly engaged by staying up to date on political discussions and reading stuff that actually interests me and not stuff that doesn't.
And as for social interaction, as an extreme introvert, the interaction I get from this site and Twitch is usually more than enough for me.
As for change in routines and breaking up the monotony, such as it is (though I don't really think that way, nonetheless), just having yo do normal stuff like going out shopping for groceries, doing regular cleaning and all that is more than enough to take care of that for me.
And on top of that, in the situations where I do nonetheless get bored and need a change of pace, there ate always plenty if books to read, movies to watch, etc. There's always something to do.
Of course, nonetheless I realize that that wouldn't work for most people and modt probably would get bored out of their minds living in such a way. And that's fine, there's nothing wrong with that. In the end, the only one it needs to work for is me, that's all that matters.
Now, I only wish I could just be left alone and live my life the way I want in perpetuity, not bothering anyone or anything and just doing my own thing. If only, if only~
That and the few forms of work I might potentially enjoy are things I can't do for one reason or another. Like, the medical field. The idea if becoming something like a GP or a pediatrician would be something that interests me... We're it not for my vasovagal response, which starts making me light-heades and nauseous and stuff as soon as I start cracking open a medical textbook or watching a similar video.
Same with political stuff. Not much use for so much as a volunteer to a political campaign who despises talking on phones and stuff due to social anxiety, never mind knocking on doors.
As far as work goes, the things I'm interested in I can't do for one reason or another. And the things I can do bring me no happiness but rather only an enduring feeling of dread.
Probably similar to what is since I dropped out of grad school last year:
-Wake up, eat, etc.
-Check ResetERA for news and what I missed during the night, staying up to date on politics, etc.
-Then on my other monitor load up Twitch and see what I missed during the night there, loading up VODs that catch my interest and even better if I happen to actually catch one of my favorite streamers like Keizaron or FlareRDB live.
-Then pretty much just alternate between then for the day, rinse and repeat.
Of course, I realize to most people that probably sounds terribly boring and how can you possibly keep doing that in perpetuity, etc. But for next, those are just the things I'm most passionate about and that's what makes it work and why I'd love nothing more than to have the option to keep doing that.
My interests are stuff like politics and video games. That kinda lifestyle satisfies both of those and keeps my mind constantly engaged by staying up to date on political discussions and reading stuff that actually interests me and not stuff that doesn't.
And as for social interaction, as an extreme introvert, the interaction I get from this site and Twitch is usually more than enough for me.
As for change in routines and breaking up the monotony, such as it is (though I don't really think that way, nonetheless), just having yo do normal stuff like going out shopping for groceries, doing regular cleaning and all that is more than enough to take care of that for me.
And on top of that, in the situations where I do nonetheless get bored and need a change of pace, there ate always plenty if books to read, movies to watch, etc. There's always something to do.
Of course, nonetheless I realize that that wouldn't work for most people and modt probably would get bored out of their minds living in such a way. And that's fine, there's nothing wrong with that. In the end, the only one it needs to work for is me, that's all that matters.
Now, I only wish I could just be left alone and live my life the way I want in perpetuity, not bothering anyone or anything and just doing my own thing. If only, if only~
Yeah but what size was the jackpot? It's why I mentioned huge jackpots, it's different if the winner won a few million as opposed to someone who won a hundred million.
I only work for the money, so with that out of the equation, there's no point for working when I could do stuff that I enjoy. Life is too short to be spend in something you don't want to do.
Of course that doesn't mean I'll stay in my couch 24/7. For example, I would like to learn music producing, so without working and with money I could buy all the shit and dedicate the time I wanted to it, if it works good it could be a work (but a work under my own terms and hours), if not then fine because I could still life and not starve myself or be a cog for a shitty lazy boss.
Of course that doesn't mean I'll stay in my couch 24/7. For example, I would like to learn music producing, so without working and with money I could buy all the shit and dedicate the time I wanted to it, if it works good it could be a work (but a work under my own terms and hours), if not then fine because I could still life and not starve myself or be a cog for a shitty lazy boss.
There's too much of it. We work to live, but if you work most of your daytime hours, what's the purpose? And it's a bit of an artificial construction, too. It's not rational to work 8 hour days, or more, you're not working in the most effective ways, and the money men decide it should be as it is just because it fits them.
Work is despised because for most people, it takes too much of your life, and it goes toward making some rich person richer, while you're just scrapping by.
I tend to agree with this but I see what the OP is saying
But in the end our work culture is toxic, if we ever began to fix that maybe we wouldn't have so many people eager about quitting their jobs.
If I won the lottery I would have the time to learn new skills and find something I'd love to do should that money run out.
As is I go to work at 3:00pm until 12:00am and get to sleep by 2:00am to wake up at 12:00pm and get a wopping 2 hours to wallow in dysphoria before I start the process again.
As is I go to work at 3:00pm until 12:00am and get to sleep by 2:00am to wake up at 12:00pm and get a wopping 2 hours to wallow in dysphoria before I start the process again.
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