Six Months At Riot Games by Meagan Marie (Sexism, Racism, Homophobia, Transphobia, Rape Jokes)

ShiningBash · Aug 9, 2018

OrangeNova said:
I'm pretty sure that after that there was an internal memo that got leaked that essentially said "Wow you went to the press, if we find out anyone still here did that you lose your job."

I have not heard about this internal memo, but that would be pretty awful. You've gotta wonder if their fanbase will care about these reports. I don't care about LoL and so it's real easy for me to write them off forever, but that's not the case for everyone.

Khanimus · Aug 9, 2018

Evolution of Metal said:
What are they supposed to do? Isolate employees from the internet?

Apply some critical thinking.

Amazingly, companies like EA have resources that could be spent on ensuring employees' safety or even mental well-being when they are targets of harassment, are receiving death threats, or have their private information leaked to hate groups.

I suggest you take your own advice.

Evolution of Metal · Aug 9, 2018

aggrocrog said:
I have not heard about this internal memo, but that would be pretty awful. You've gotta wonder if their fanbase will care about these reports. I don't care about LoL and so it's real easy for me to write them off forever, but that's not the case for everyone.

Riot Games have by far the greatest position to manipulate the social media. They monitor social media channels like crazy, have a bunch of influencers, special connection to reddit mods, noise of memes/chatter and announcements in their sleeves.

LoL fanbase might care, but any negative PR is either dispelled or buried faster than most other gaming companies respond.

Curufinwe · Aug 9, 2018

ValKiryuSonicEX said:
You know, I've followed Meagan for a few years, ever since she posted about harassment from one of the gaming publications (think it was GameInformer).

Are you talking about this? Your post makes it sound like she was harassed by other employees of Game Informer when she worked there.

http://meagan-marie.tumblr.com/post/46396481491/what-would-you-do-if-you-werent-afrai

Evolution of Metal · Aug 9, 2018

Khanimus said:
Amazingly, companies like EA have resources that could be spent on ensuring employees' safety or even mental well-being when they are targets of harassment, are receiving death threats, or have their private information leaked to hate groups.

I suggest you take your own advice.

Describe me a resources which ensures the safety of employees in the case of twitter/reddit mobs, or morons writing death messages. And of course we are talking about the incident of a female animator being attacked for Andromeda's animations, so let me know what was EA/Bioware supposed to do when the internet mob attacks.

EA has no control over twitter or reddit. You cannot buy more moderation on those platforms, neither can you disable them. Once you have a full-blown reddit mob, you just hunker down and wait it out.

Htown · Aug 9, 2018

the_wart said:
I am shocked, shocked, that preferentially hiring hardcore online gamers has resulted in a toxic workplace culture. Who could ever have foreseen such a thing.

Right?

Harlequin · Aug 9, 2018

Robdraggoo said:
Is this the same Megan Marie who worked at Crystal dynamics around the time tomb raider 2013 was coming out? Wasn't she horrible harassed by men before, grabbing her butt.

Shits fucked up. Poor Megan

Yeah, Crystal is the previous employer she mentions in the article whom she really liked working for. After she left Riot, she went back to Crystal and got her old job back.

Don Fluffles · Aug 9, 2018

Looks like it's been a long lasting issue according to Glassdoor.

inpHilltr8r · Aug 9, 2018

Septimus Prime said:
EA is also a lot older than a lot of these companies and has a different culture.

EA also got sued.

Pancoar · Aug 9, 2018

Nirolak said:
From a Riot employee who worked there for several years:

Reading that whole thread hurt my soul. How horrific. And the guy who said he'd rape his room mate. Fucking hell, hope the poor guy who was subject to that left and found another place to live.

Seriously, fuck Riot. GLad I never spent a dime or more than an hour of my time in that game.

Khanimus · Aug 9, 2018

Evolution of Metal said:
Describe me a resources which ensures the safety of employees in the case of twitter/reddit mobs, or morons writing death messages. And of course we are talking about the incident of a female animator being attacked for Andromeda's animations, so let me know what was EA/Bioware supposed to do when the internet mob attacks.

EA has no control over twitter or reddit. You cannot buy more moderation on those platforms, neither can you disable them. Once you have a full-blown reddit mob, you just hunker down and wait it out.

How about offering paid leave? Maybe even offering to cover any therapy or counseling, or even just asking "hey what do you need?"

This shit ain't hard if a company actually values their employees.

Septimus Prime · Aug 9, 2018

Khanimus said:
Maybe even offering to cover therapy

Just jumping in real quick on this, we do have this. It's onsite and free for all employees and our families.

Not to argue with what you're saying, and granted I haven't been with EA for too long, but I've not once felt that they don't value us as employees. There are lots of nice perks, good pay, and good benefits, and there are tons of people here who've been here for 10+ years and/or left and came back.

Don Fluffles · Aug 9, 2018

Evolution of Metal said:
Describe me a resources which ensures the safety of employees in the case of twitter/reddit mobs, or morons writing death messages. And of course we are talking about the incident of a female animator being attacked for Andromeda's animations, so let me know what was EA/Bioware supposed to do when the internet mob attacks.

EA has no control over twitter or reddit. You cannot buy more moderation on those platforms, neither can you disable them. Once you have a full-blown reddit mob, you just hunker down and wait it out.

We can have business increase pressure on these social networks to crack down on harassment. Apple and Google eventually cracked from pressure to get rid of InfoWars. We just need to keep badgering them to get their act together.

Funny Valentine · Aug 9, 2018

Don Fluffles said:
We can have business increase pressure on these social networks to crack down on harassment. Apple and Google eventually cracked from pressure to get rid of InfoWars. We just need to keep badgering them to get their act together.

It's one thing to get rid of an easy visible target like InfoWars, it's another to figure out how to manage the behavior of total randoms that sometimes number in the thousands. I'm not saying don't do it but this isn't as easy as you think it is.

elenarie · Aug 9, 2018

The Last Wizard said:
I'm also not saying it's everyone but there's definitely people like that in the industry.

Oh yea, for sure. There are people like that in our industry as there are in pretty much every other aspect of life.
My point is that generalising a whole industry based on some people / companies diminishes the efforts that others put to make this a much better, warmer, more inclusive, diverse, and welcoming environment for everyone.

A bit of shameless promotion:

Linkura · Aug 9, 2018

Yeah, not gonna read this article for my mental health. I had to stop reading that article from a few days ago because it was too disgusting.

8byte · Aug 9, 2018

Morrigan said:
They've responded, FWIW http://ca.ign.com/articles/2018/08/...of-sexist-culture-at-league-of-legends-studio

But I'm not fully convinced. Lots of words, but the actions remain to be seen. Their insistence at "hiring gamers" appears myopic and misguided since a lot of that bro-culture comes from there and their childish notion of what a "real gamer" is like.

None of these are even remotely close to acknowledgement or apology though. It reads more like "this stuff isn't true! We're really great. We hire gamers. We love gamers. We love our game. Won't you love our game, too?"

Sadly, this doesn't mean shit because the majority of LoL players are the same breed of toxic assholes, so really it doesn't matter what they say, the money will continue to roll in for them.

dead souls · Aug 9, 2018

And this is why I don't identify as a gamer.

Trash as far as the eye can see.

SeanBoocock · Aug 9, 2018

elenarie said:
Oh yea, for sure. There are people like that in our industry as there are in pretty much every other aspect of life.
My point is that generalising a whole industry based on some people / companies diminishes the efforts that others put to make this a much better, warmer, more inclusive, diverse, and welcoming environment for everyone.

A bit of shameless promotion:

To echo this, EA takes these issues seriously and has for some time. While I'm sure there are pockets of toxicity on some teams, no studio I ever worked at or encountered had anything like the culture that Riot is notorious for. Both Bioware and DICE, which I have the most immediate experience with, were wonderful with Bioware Austin being the standout. To the best of my knowledge, Riot is an aberration among large studios and I hope they take this opportunity to seriously reflect on their shortcomings and take decisive action to address them.

devSin · Aug 9, 2018

elenarie said:
Oh yea, for sure. There are people like that in our industry as there are in pretty much every other aspect of life.
My point is that generalising a whole industry based on some people / companies diminishes the efforts that others put to make this a much better, warmer, more inclusive, diverse, and welcoming environment for everyone.

Honestly, both of your posts have really bothered me here.

The games industry collectively turned away from a targeted campaign of harassment and hate toward some of its most vulnerable and marginalized members. You can't dispute that.

I don't see why you feel it's appropriate to come in and finger-wag to people who are rightly critical of the games industry rather than turning your attention toward your peers, who have cultivated and perpetuated a system of intolerance and exclusion. Yes, we know "not all developers", but enough that stories like the one this thread covers don't truly surprise many of us.

You shouldn't paper over systemic issues like this simply because your office over at DICE is really great. Way to cast everyone who isn't as lucky as you to the wind.

Liliana · Aug 9, 2018

Jesus Christ. Fuck these racist, sexist douchebags.

Deleted member 5129 · Aug 9, 2018

I met her in person once or twice at Tomb Raider related events, she's such a nice person. I did wonder why she only worked at Riot for such a short amount of time but now I get it. Damn.

gogosox82 · Aug 9, 2018

I felt out of place in my direct team as well. Our Jira sprints were named things like "thong." I was the only woman on that particular team, and so a senior staff member named us the "Bros and Ho". I immediately tried to shut that down, but it was used for weeks regardless.

This is just...like wtf? On what planet is this acceptable to say on any level let alone a professional work environment?

i like big butts · Aug 9, 2018

8byte said:
None of these are even remotely close to acknowledgement or apology though. It reads more like "this stuff isn't true! We're really great. We hire gamers. We love gamers. We love our game. Won't you love our game, too?"

Sadly, this doesn't mean shit because the majority of LoL players are the same breed of toxic assholes, so really it doesn't matter what they say, the money will continue to roll in for them.

Yeah, their statement is pretty funny to me. This statement:

We've found that the best way to hire Rioters is to hire gamers. While not every Rioter is a gamer, most are... a Rioter speaks the language of players and can relate to them in ways that could never be learned on the job. We pride ourselves on player empathy, whether that's relating to the fun players are having with a new game mode or understanding the pain they're feeling with a nerf gone too far.

Is pretty hilarious given how awful the majority of gaming related communities are. At this point, I'd rather companies be closer to Nintendo and just hire people who don't play video games because at least there's a better chance that they're normal functional people.

Super Corpse Soldier · Aug 9, 2018

The Last Wizard said:
The piece on the main BioWare studio that was working on Andromeda should've been a hint but it didn't register with me and many others I assume.

Can I get a link to this please? : )

Brawly Likes to Brawl · Aug 9, 2018

Rape became a punchline to jokes quite frequently, including one instance where an employee went on for several hours about how he was going to rape his male colleague, who was his hotel roommate. He was graphic in exactly how he was going to rape his roommate, who was a new hire, and it was obvious that the individual in question was extremely uncomfortable.

what the hell

Mathieran said:
I remember growing up as a nerd in my small rural high school (which didn't contain very many nerds) and thinking that all nerds were nice inclusive people. It's been really dismaying to see that is not true. Fuck these people.

Nerd culture looked back on all the bullying and exclusion it was on the receiving end of and came to the conclusion that what was good for the goose was good for the gander.

Deleted member 33887 · Aug 9, 2018

Nirolak said:
From a Riot employee who worked there for several years:

The thing that seems absolutely absurd to me in this Twitter thread is that apparently Riot was aware of its employees getting therapy and some management was actively discouraging it, apparently out of some misguided attempt to keep health insurance costs low? Yikes. None of the bro culture stuff surprises me that much. The early League of Legends community was absolute garbage at being respectful to anyone else, and it doesn't really surprise me that apparently has been coming from the top for a long time. Do any number of these abhorrent things at any other employer, and you would be fired really quickly.

Mathieran · Aug 9, 2018

Brawly Likes to Brawl said:
what the hell

Nerd culture looked back on all the bullying and exclusion it was on the receiving end of and came to the conclusion that what was good for the goose was good for the gander.

Yeah that's not the outcome I expected. I thought nerds being in charge would be a good thing. I couldn't have been more wrong.

Strings · Aug 9, 2018

Pau said:
There's a lot to unpack there but I have to laugh at how they create these highly sexualized designs and then demean the women who dare to wear them in real life.

Couldn't have put it better. Lots of bad stuff in there, but insulting sincere fans like that is extra low :(

III-V · Aug 9, 2018

So much sickness

Deleted member 27469 · Aug 9, 2018

Servbot24 said:
Jesus Christ. Their HR department needs an extreme overhaul.

Ralemont said:
"Bros and ho." Jesus Christ, that's what passes for humor there.

Pau said:
...apparently they're just w****s doing it for attention. Jesus Christ.

Phantom Thief said:
Jesus f***ing Christ. This is actually even worse than that Kotaku article.

XandBosch said:
Jesus. I guess I take for granted how "professional" my workplace is...

Regret said:
Jesus

Redcrayon said:
... his (clearly uncomfortable) colleague and hotel roommate. Jesus wept.

I KILL PXLS said:
Jesus. Glad she's speaking out about it.

Joeyro said:
Jesus christ, based on what do the employees get hired there?

Gbraga said:
Jesus Christ.

Kafkaa said:
... letter that Riot apparently does? Jesus. Riot is such a trash company...

Nome said:
... But I gotta say: Jesus Christ my dudes, it's not like this stuff wasn't expressed to you before.

Nemesis162 said:
Jesus Christ, that's actually worst than what was described on Kotaku.

Regret said:
Jesus Christ. F*** these racist, sexist d*****bags.

It's arguably hypocritical to condemn one person's insulting language choices while using language that is insulting to others. Just saying.

Servbot24 · Aug 9, 2018

mariosbrother said:
It's arguably hypocritical to condemn one person's insulting language choices while using language that is insulting to others. Just saying.

It's not hypocritical because liberal usage of religious terms is not equal to discrimination against women.

impact · Aug 9, 2018

mariosbrother said:
It's arguably hypocritical to condemn one person's insulting language choices while using language that is insulting to others. Just saying.

The words "Jesus Christ" insult you?

Deleted member 249 · Aug 9, 2018

mariosbrother said:
It's arguably hypocritical to condemn one person's insulting language choices while using language that is insulting to others. Just saying.

Sorry, are you conflating "Jesus Christ" with transphobia and rape jokes?

Deleted member 27469 · Aug 9, 2018

Servbot24 said:
It's not hypocritical because liberal usage of religious terms is not equal to discrimination against women.

Apples, meet oranges.

Deleted member 249 · Aug 9, 2018

mariosbrother said:
Apples, meet oranges.

So you admit they are nothing alike then? What was the point of your post?

OrdinaryPrime · Aug 9, 2018

mariosbrother said:
It's arguably hypocritical to condemn one person's insulting language choices while using language that is insulting to others. Just saying.

Listen Luigi, this is your first post in this thread. Nice attempt at a derail, but frankly your lack of condemnation and attempt at a thread derail is fucking absurd.

mariosbrother said:
Apples, meet oranges.

Keep arguing about hypocrisy until you're blue in the face, it is absolutely fucking irrelevant.

Young Liar · Aug 9, 2018

my immediate reaction is "burn it all to the fucking ground"

but yeah also i'm sure there's a significant number of good people who are fighting to make a change and whose livelihoods and loved ones depend on them to stay there, heartbreaking it might be

this is why we need more women, more lgbtq+, more poc hired in these companies. this is why we need to push back on even the slightest whiff of misogyny and bigotry and the misguided if not outright malicious push for the idea that meritocracy is the foundation of gaming companies (and tech in general).

i don't fucking want to ever see era posters turn their noses up on "forced" diversity or complain about having their "sexualized designs" taken away from them or gatekeep people out of some fragile sense of ownership of a fucking corporate ip and self-identification over a culture that has proven time and again that it destroys lives, especially that of women, queer folk, and poc.

fuckin miss me with your notallgamers notallwhites notallmen bullshit

mariosbrother said:
It's arguably hypocritical to condemn one person's insulting language choices while using language that is insulting to others. Just saying.

sit your ass down and dont make the LITERAL DISCRIMINATION, HARASSMENT, AND ABUSE of current and former riot employees about your indignant ass

chrisypoo · Aug 9, 2018

mariosbrother said:
Apples, meet oranges.

What are you doing? What in the hell is the point of your statement here, other than to say that you feel people shouldn't be able to say Jesus Christ in a thread in which we're discussing a company with a blatantly sexist and racist work culture?

Deleted member 249 · Aug 9, 2018

The best part is "apples and oranges" is used to demonstrate two things that are completely different.

He didn't even get the idiom right (I assume he meant "Pot, meet kettle").

Akumatica · Aug 9, 2018

mariosbrother said:
It's arguably hypocritical to condemn one person's insulting language choices while using language that is insulting to others. Just saying.

Goddammit, comparing "taking the Lord's name in vain" to what these people went through is idiotic.

Overflow · Aug 9, 2018

Yep. When you want your company run by the same scum that play the game, this is the result.

Can't we just send these people to a different planet?

chrisypoo · Aug 9, 2018

Young Liar said:
this is why we need more women, more lgbtq+, more poc hired in these companies. this is why we need to push back on even the slightest whiff of misogyny and bigotry and the misguided if not outright malicious push for the idea that meritocracy is the foundation of gaming companies (and tech in general).

i don't fucking want to ever see era posters turn their noses up on "forced" diversity or complain about having their "sexualized designs" taken away from them or gatekeep people out of some fragile sense of ownership of a fucking corporate ip and self-identification over a culture that has proven time and again that it destroys lives, especially that of women, queer folk, and poc.

fuckin miss me with your notallgamers notallwhites notallmen bullshit

This is a good post right here, particularly the bolded.

AfropunkNyc · Aug 9, 2018

"I was unnerved, but it was my first week and I didn't know if this was a common occurrence. I didn't say anything at that time. Eventually, the language would escalate to "n*gger" Is she sure it was the "er" and not the "ga". I've witness a ton of people of every race throwing that around casually to one another. It was never used as a racial thing towards one another, but a term of endearment between two friends or people who know one another. What do i know anyway.

Deleted member 249 · Aug 9, 2018

AfropunkNyc said:
"I was unnerved, but it was my first week and I didn't know if this was a common occurrence. I didn't say anything at that time. Eventually, the language would escalate to "n*gger" Is she sure it was the "er" and not the "ga". I've witness a ton of people of every race throwing that around casually to one another. It was never used as a racial thing towards one another, but a term of endearment between two friends or people who know one another. What do i know anyway.

Yo, come the hell on

KillLaCam · Aug 9, 2018

That rape thing is pretty crazy even for angry gamer behavior. Like the most I ever hear is people saying "rape" as a synonym for destroyed or something like that. But you have to be a crazy person to go into detail about hypothetically raping people like that.

Khanimus · Aug 9, 2018

AfropunkNyc said:
"I was unnerved, but it was my first week and I didn't know if this was a common occurrence. I didn't say anything at that time. Eventually, the language would escalate to "n*gger" Is she sure it was the "er" and not the "ga". I've witness a ton of people of every race throwing that around casually to one another. It was never used as a racial thing towards one another, but a term of endearment between two friends or people who know one another. What do i know anyway.

What an appropriate question for you to end on.

Cow Mengde · Aug 9, 2018

dead souls said:
And this is why I don't identify as a gamer.

Trash as far as the eye can see.

Likewise. The industry is rotten from top to bottom.

matimeo · Aug 9, 2018

Evolution of Metal said:
Describe me a resources which ensures the safety of employees in the case of twitter/reddit mobs, or morons writing death messages. And of course we are talking about the incident of a female animator being attacked for Andromeda's animations, so let me know what was EA/Bioware supposed to do when the internet mob attacks.

EA has no control over twitter or reddit. You cannot buy more moderation on those platforms, neither can you disable them. Once you have a full-blown reddit mob, you just hunker down and wait it out.

Just FYI some companies do in fact have protocols in place to help ensure their employees are safe. Including extra security and monitoring.

kittens · Aug 9, 2018

ugh all of that is really disgusting :(

Six Months At Riot Games by Meagan Marie (Sexism, Racism, Homophobia, Transphobia, Rape Jokes)

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