Apple launches new MacBook Pros Touch Bar Only starting @$1799

So it's been a long time since I paid real close attention to processor tech, like 10-15 years. How improved are these 8th gen Intels over, say, their 4th gens?

I need to upgrade from my mid-2012 15" MBP (2.3GHz quad core i7). Kind of tempted to drop down to a more mobile 13", but I'm not knowledgeable and it feels odd to just move to another 2.xGHz quad core processor...

Vern said:

I'm basically never home. I fly at least once a week generally and do all my work on a laptop. 8gb is barely cutting it so I worry 16 will be not so great in a few years, but I don't really know. The way I look at it is If I'm gonna spend a couple grand on a laptop maxing our the specs for a few hundred dollars seems like the right move. I'd rather not buy another computer for 5-10 years if I can.

I don't game on computers, just edit videos and use Photoshop and Lightroom very heavily. My MacBook air freaks out when I edit photos these days, and videos give me a beach ball way too often.

I'll check your link. Thanks for the info and advice!

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Yeah, if you're investing that much anyway, it might be better to go for the exta mile and get a bit more reassurance out of it. I plan to use mine for a minimum of 7 years, which by then would already be worth the money. If you're editing videos and use photoshop/lightroom it probably is important that the screen is color accurate right?
If you're looking for an alternative, my bet would go on HP Zbook G5 series, which look pretty great too. (https://www.anandtech.com/show/12610/hp-spring-2018-range-zbook-zbook-zbook )
However, most people I know swear on the Apple workflow. Atleast I do :) .

Good luck in making a purchase decision.

badboy78660 said:

Fuckin' finally @ 32GB ram! Still nervous about their keyboards though.

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Theyre still using the same as a couple of years ago? That's the one I have and I can't stand the keyboard.

thebigcountry said:

Here's a detailed timeline with examples of the 2016+ MBP keyboard's problems. While Apple has instituted a repair program for these faulty keyboards, you'll still be without your laptop for a week.

The Verge:

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So it's just quieter? I didn't know it was that loud. Well now I notice how loud my older 15" model's keyboard is. I should play around with my dads machine a bit. I haven't tested the keyboard enough yet.

Replicant said:

He's wrong..Apple laptops don't hold the value they once did. Anyone who buys a 4 year old Apple laptop is an idiot. The battery would probably hold only 50% of its charge or less depending how it was maintained. That and a brand new windows machine could be had at $1000.

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I will mention that I'm glad my 5 year old 15" has a brand new battery in it with 94% capacity left. The repair I had done last year reinvigorated everything. New battery, topcase with keyboard and trackpad, bottom case with new feet. All for $200 total because the battery caused everything.

Replicant said:

He's wrong..Apple laptops don't hold the value they once did. Anyone who buys a 4 year old Apple laptop is an idiot. The battery would probably hold only 50% of its charge or less depending how it was maintained. That and a brand new windows machine could be had at $1000.

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Seriously? If you don't have any experience don't make assumptions. Apple laptops will have at least 80% capacity after 1000 cycles. That's 3 years of running your battery from 100-0% daily. I JUST sold my 2012 Macbook Air 6 months ago. It was 5 years old. It had 94% charge capacity and it sold for 50% of what I paid for it before tax. And before you make another assumption, yes I used it daily.

I will say this though: the cheaper the laptop, the better (and easier to sell) the resale value. People like the base models when they buy used because it's usually students who want to get an apple laptop for college but don't want to pay full price.

Fun fact: In Europe, a 13" Macbook Pro with a decent configuration (i7, 16 GB RAM, 512 GB SSD) costs the same as a Surface Book 2 with those specs. Except the latter actually has a dedicated GPU as well as a higher-res, detachable touchscreen.

And I thought the Surface Book was expensive.

Daitokuji said:

What else do people want in a laptop? The price is outrageous but it seems like this is the laptop's final form. It's thin and light, no optical drive, no hard drive, top of the line specs, only thunderbolt/usb C inputs. Maybe smaller bezels?

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Useful ports. A keyboard that can't be destroyed by a speck of dust. Those 2 would be a nice start.

Fancy Clown said:

I just got an XPS 15 with 32gb of RAM

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yeah, saw that. $1800 for 8gb is stupid to me.

honestly, now that I'm done with school I probably don't need a laptop. think I'm gonna get an ipad or something and then wait and see on the Mac mini or pro if that's enticing. If not I guess I'll get on building a pc.

Skel1ingt0n said:

I don't disagree. I mean, really, the only (realistic) things I want from Apple's MBP at this point are:

1) Removal is TouchBar
2) Addition of FaceID
3) slightly thinner bezels
4) 120hz screen
5) I know we won't ever get Nvidia gaming gpus, but this should have at least gone Vega to trade punches with a downclocked 1060 (like the Intel NUC)

Otherwise... it's pretty much perfect. Battery life is exceptional. Performance is great. Thermals are solid. Fans rarely kick on in light and medium use. And while the screen is a BIT low res, it's still my favorite screen on a laptop (and I also own a Surface Book 2).

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I'm sorry, but you saying thermals are solid is plain lie.
Mac's have always been toasty.

So they just dumped these onto their website without much fanfare? I thought they would reveal them during a big event in fall?

How's their GPUs, any good?

Evan said:

Theyre still using the same as a couple of years ago? That's the one I have and I can't stand the keyboard.

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I believe so (based on some of the responses I read in this thread). I don't believe the keyboard being used on this newly announced model remedies the fuck-ups people have been experiencing with the current butterfly-keyboards either.

Klappdrachen said:

So they just dumped these onto their website without much fanfare? I thought they would reveal them during a big event in fall?

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there's a lot to reveal. not surprised that they announced some stuff earlier, since the event is rumored to be very packed (with iphone, watch, ipad, and mac mini announcements).

Replicant said:

Anyone who buys a 4 year old Apple laptop is an idiot.

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This will be especially true a few years from now since they'll only replace keyboards for 2016-2017 models for four years. Those machines now have a pretty well defined lifespan.

maxxpower said:

How's their GPUs, any good?

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Mid tier AMD gpu's. Not really made for gaming, sadly they couldn't have the AMD gpu which is available in the Intel NUC (which is close to a 1060, although the drivers aren't really optimised yet).
It gets the job done, and if you really want to you could opt to buy an eGPU.

lukeskymac said:

It's always amusing to see people outraged about prices suggest U notebooks as alternatives. At least post Hs, people.

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A lot of people just see it being i3/5/7 and CPU speed and that's it.

This better mean they'll be revealing the new Mac Pro at the conference!

I can dream...

Felt said:

Seriously? If you don't have any experience don't make assumptions. Apple laptops will have at least 80% capacity after 1000 cycles. That's 3 years of running your battery from 100-0% daily. I JUST sold my 2012 Macbook Air 6 months ago. It was 5 years old. It had 94% charge capacity and it sold for 50% of what I paid for it before tax. And before you make another assumption, yes I used it daily.

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My 13" MBP's battery is at 91% after 150 or so cycles. There is no way it's gonna be at 80% if it ever hits 1000 cycles. What am I doing wrong? I always charge it full and then use it to around 30-40% before plugging it back on charge.

I want to upgrade to 8th gen and bigger ssd but even with student prices it's almost 2000€ which feels steep. As an example, same cpu, ssd space and ram from Lenovo is on sale right now for 799€ and it's similar form factor I think. Apples pricing is making it hard to justify upgrading for me at least.

Gunslinger said:

Such a scam. My Asus laptop that has 8750H 8 core CPU, gtx 1060, 120hz panel, 16gb ram, 128 SSD and 1 TB HDD cost 1300 dollars. Apple prices are downright daylight robbery. Not to mention how anti consumer they are when it comes to repair.

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The 8750H has 6 cores, not 8.

Rushersauce said:

I'm sorry, but you saying thermals are solid is plain lie.
Mac's have always been toasty.

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The current gen is actually pretty good for a sub-2cm thin notebook. 3.3GHz in Prime95 is nothing to scoff at when the base clock is 2.9GHz and the 3.8GHz max boost isn't applicable to all cores (apparently 3.4GHz is the max boost for all 4 cores). Stressing both CPU and GPU at the same time would be the problem, but you really should be using an eGPU in that case anyway.

They didn't update the non-TB models? What the hell?

kiguel182 said:

These new ones being quad-core make me kinda regret buying the Touch Bar model last year... sucks.

EDIT: Man, quad core, True Tone and a new butterfly mechanism. Dammit. Almost tempted to sell mine and get a new one...

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Look at it this way: at least you get to sit back and see if they finally got the keyboard right.

Good to see 32GB RAM being an option now. I don't need an upgrade any time soon but when I do, I'll go with that.

Zeyphersan said:

They didn't update the non-TB models? What the hell?

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Why the surprise?

Perhaps I'm just thoroughly jaded about Apple's stubbornness, but I don't expect them to cave on touchbar for at least another year, if ever.

Mortemis said:

there's a lot to reveal. not surprised that they announced some stuff earlier, since the event is rumored to be very packed (with iphone, watch, ipad, and mac mini announcements).

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I was hoping for a good non-Touchbar MBP to replace my 2011 MBP with... This is very disappointing.

Fhtagn said:

Why the surprise?

Perhaps I'm just thoroughly jaded about Apple's stubbornness, but I don't expect them to cave on touchbar for at least another year, if ever.

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I didn't expect them to remove the touchbar, I guess I did expect the non-TB models to also get 8th gen chips

hi whats up guys said:

My 13" MBP's battery is at 91% after 150 or so cycles. There is no way it's gonna be at 80% if it ever hits 1000 cycles. What am I doing wrong? I always charge it full and then use it to around 30-40% before plugging it back on charge.

I want to upgrade to 8th gen and bigger ssd but even with student prices it's almost 2000€ which feels steep. As an example, same cpu, ssd space and ram from Lenovo is on sale right now for 799€ and it's similar form factor I think. Apples pricing is making it hard to justify upgrading for me at least.

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I can confirm that my battery is above 80% after 1000 cycles (it's at 1338 currently).
You might want to read the manual as to what a cycle is for a laptop (or any battery for that matter):

https://www.apple.com/batteries/why-lithium-ion/
https://www.apple.com/batteries/maximizing-performance/

Depending on how old your laptop is, you could go to an apple store and say that the battery isn't working with your line of expectations and that you worry that your battery may not reach the 80% 1000 cycles figure.
They may replace it for free depending on how generous the genius staff are.

Interesting about the new keyboard. I believe that Apple actually puts this new, more silent keyboard into 2016/2017 models that they are fixing. I've sent them my 2017 MBP which had one non-working key (due most likely to dust buildup under it) and they replaced whole top case (for one freaking key, lol), which gave me a brand new battery as well as a completely new keyboard. The new keyboard is noticeably less clicking, and has a bit softer bottom-out than the one I had previously.

Just chiming in to say that the touchbar is worthless. I don't know how much money they spent developing the hardware and software integration for it, but I'm sure it was waaaaay too much.

Hope it's gone for the 2019 models.

I ordered the eGPU they're selling. I know the price is a robbery, and the GPU inside may not even be changeable (I somehow doubt that though, it's probably just not easily changeable...) but it's finally a case that I can put on my desk without it looking weird on it. Also, very important to me is that buying from Apple I can easily return this thing if I realize I'm not happy with the whole eGPU concept in the first place.

lukeskymac said:

The 8750H has 6 cores, not 8.



The current gen is actually pretty good for a sub-2cm thin notebook. 3.3GHz in Prime95 is nothing to scoff at when the base clock is 2.9GHz and the 3.8GHz max boost isn't applicable to all cores (apparently 3.4GHz is the max boost for all 4 cores). Stressing both CPU and GPU at the same time would be the problem, but you really should be using an eGPU in that case anyway.

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Ufff 100°c such a good performer...

OMG this is Apple's state of the art laptop with those huuuuuuuge bezels?

the prices are ridiculous — i think i'm going to look at the Dell XPS 15 because you can get a lot more RAM and SSD for the price. just too bad about that awful webcam placement.

Rushersauce said:

Ufff 100°c such a good performer...

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It's what the chip is rated for, buddy. If you actually bothered to read any of the article you'd know that it doesn't get hotter than 42C on the outside. But with a response like that it's clear you're not interested in a real discussion.

Gotta be fucking kidding me with these GPUs. Oh but at least they upped the VRAM! Smh

slamhk said:

Damm, the gpu is dissapointing and 400 extra for the ram, oof. This is even tight with the budget I had for it.

For those seeking alternatives:

• HP Zbook G5
  
• HP Zbook X360
• Gigabyte Aero 15X
• Dell XPS 15

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Damn I'm thinking about getting this Gigabyte Aero with the 4K screen. I was waiting for the refresh to get a new MBP (mine's 2014) but it's just insanely expensive. With this I would have another good gaming PC. How are the trackpads on these?

My guess: the 13" non-TB model didn't get updated because there's literally no direct successor to their chips that Intel offers (15W with Iris graphics). They'd have to downgrade the GPU. Might be worth the tradeoff to some, but I'd bet the quad-core 15Ws without Iris are destined for that rumored MacBook Air redesign (at which point they may discontinue the 13" non-TB Pro).

I wonder what the performance is like on these "555X" and "560X" GPUs.

Rushersauce said:

Ufff 100°c such a good performer...

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Synthetic benchmark and it's the 2016 model.

However, it can maintain the high clocks because the challenging tool Prime95 is executed with ~3.3 GHz.GPU load by FurMark is no problem for the graphics card either, because the core can maintain 907 MHz at a temperature of 77 °C

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2017 model:

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple-MacBook-Pro-15-2017-2-8-GHz-555-Laptop-Review.230096.0.html

We stress the two components with the tools Prime95 and FurMark (Windows Bootcamp). The processor quickly reaches temperatures of above 90 °C (~194 °F) and reduces its clock. We can see fluctuations between 2.2 and 2.4 GHz over the course of the test. The graphics card also runs at a slightly lower clock (693 MHz), but the GPU is cooler at 78 °C (~172 °F). The very demanding 3DMark Time Spy stress test was passed, so there should not be any limitations in practice, even when you are running Windows.

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We did not notice any throttling in "The Witcher 3" (Bootcamp) or the Unigine Valley benchmark (macOS). The frame rates were steady, even after prolong periods.

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Review ends with:

Pros: + Quiet and good cooling
Cons: - fans are (slightly) audible while idling

Laptop CPU's are hotheads in general, but it's important that they'll still humm along for the long run. Mine has been for the past 7 years, but we'll have to see if that's the case for the new 8th gen processors as it can already be seen that it needs some good cooling. MSI GS65, which is also a slim laptop looks great and has pretty good specs, but it throttles under load.

https://www.notebookcheck.net/MSI-G...D-Laptop-Review.302998.0.html#toc-performance

Unfortunately, the GS65's heat management does not extend to the CPU and GPU. In our FurMark and Prime95 stress tests both the CPU and GPU thermal throttle below their base clock speed; this does not happen with the Aero 15X. We noticed that thermal throttling occurs at around 86 °C for the GPU and at 90 °C for the CPU. Fortunately, this degree of thermal throttling does not occur during everyday gaming.

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But it was also a synthetic benchmark and it seemed like MSI set a lower configurable TPD to prevent it from reaching such high temps.

Razer Blade 15 also runs into the same issue: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Razer...FHD-Laptop-Review.305426.0.html#toc-emissions

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99humanity said:

Damn I'm thinking about getting this Gigabyte Aero with the 4K screen. I was waiting for the refresh to get a new MBP (mine's 2014) but it's just insanely expensive. With this I would have another good gaming PC. How are the trackpads on these?

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I don't really have any experience with it, but the last time I encountered great trackpads were with the surface products. According to this review (https://www.pcworld.com/article/3238928/laptop-computers/gigabyte-aero-15x-review.html):

We still have some doubts about the Elan trackpad, which would occasionally become non-responsive for a millisecond. (We also noticed this on the original Aero 15, long after our review ran.) We don't think it's a deal-breaker, but it's something to be aware of.

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It doesn't look to small, but it's not large also. Also, installing windows precision drivers helps a lot too. Also not sure how the 4k panel is, if you're looking for color accuracy, great viewing angles, panel quality, you might need to dig further.

detuned radios said:

I wonder what the performance is like on these "555X" and "560X" GPUs.

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More of the same. It's a higher clocked GPU of the previous gen. AMD is keeping people waiting with their GPU's.
https://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Radeon-RX-560X-Laptop-GPU.301586.0.html

Compared to the slightly older Radeon RX 560 for laptops (see for benchmarks), the RX 560X features only slightly altered clock speeds but should perform quite similar.

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lukeskymac said:

It's what the chip is rated for, buddy. If you actually bothered to read any of the article you'd know that it doesn't get hotter than 42C on the outside. But with a response like that it's clear you're not interested in a real discussion.

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It should never ever hit those temps. And lol.

slamhk made a really good post with details and real use. Thanks, it's so not as bad as I thought.

Too little too late. I'll stick to windows

Rushersauce said:

slamhk made a really good post with details and real use. Thanks, it's so not as bad as I thought.

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Thanks, it remainst to be seen if Apple will not have the same issues. As mentioned by OP, it remains to be seen what the Thermals will be as these 6 core processor demand better cooling.

Skeleton said:

Don't buy a Razer laptop.

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Why not?

slamhk said:

Thanks, it remainst to be seen if Apple will not have the same issues. As mentioned by OP, it remains to be seen what the Thermals will be as these 6 core processor demand better cooling.

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Intel's new 6-cores have the same 45W TDP as the old quad-cores the previous models used.

detuned radios said:

Intel's new 6-cores have the same 45W TDP as the old quad-cores the previous models used.

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True, but manufacturers have the possibility for a configurable TPD of 35W

https://ark.intel.com/products/134906/Intel-Core-i7-8750H-Processor-9M-Cache-up-to-4_10-GHz

Configurable TDP-down is a processor operating mode where the processor behavior and performance is modified by lowering TDP and the processor frequency to fixed points. The use of Configurable TDP-down is typically executed by the system manufacturer to optimize power and performance.

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I assume (I don't know for certain) that this is available due to the fact that the 2 cores extra (more transistors) would result that the processors will reach their TPD or thermal threshold quicker. Which is only mitigated with better cooling

Correct me if I'm wrong, this is just pure speculation from my part :p.

Edit: I think I'm mistaken as to what configurable TPD means. Probably wrong.

slamhk said:

True, but manufacturers have the possibility for a configurable TPD of 35W

https://ark.intel.com/products/134906/Intel-Core-i7-8750H-Processor-9M-Cache-up-to-4_10-GHz

I assume (I don't know for certain) that this is available due to the fact that the 2 cores extra (more transistors) would result that the processors will reach their TPD or thermal threshold quicker. Which is only mitigated with better cooling

Correct me if I'm wrong, this is just pure speculation from my part :p.

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That's unchanged from the previous generation, too - the 35W TDP-down has been an option for a while. Overall these new chips shouldn't require more cooling capacity than the Skylake and Kaby Lake models did.

detuned radios said:

That's unchanged from the previous generation, too - the 35W TDP-down has been an option for a while. Overall these new chips shouldn't require more cooling capacity than the Skylake and Kaby Lake models did.

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Yeah you're right, I had to look further instead of saying such a thing. Thx for the correction.
But why are MSI and razer still not able to tame the i7 8750H? Probably because Slim laptops in general are just harder to cool due to the limited amount of airflow?
Maybe that's why MSI and Razer were not able to cool sufficiently.

Rushersauce said:

I'm sorry, but you saying thermals are solid is plain lie.
Mac's have always been toasty.

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I own a 14" Razer Blade, a 15" Surface Book 2, and a 2017 15" MBP.

In regular, non-gaming, non-rendering tasks (Web browsing, FB, Excel with some macros, Skype video chat, Spotify, etc all at once) all of them get warm. None of them are uncomfortably hot. BUT(!) the fans on the MBP stay damn near silent, versus the clearly audible noise caused by the other two. Most the time I'm not even certain the fans in the MBP are on. This is even more prevelant when you use additional external monitors that start stressing the GPU.

I hook my SB2 up to two 1080p displays via the dock, and the fans are on 99% of the time. I hook my MBP up to a 5K LG monitor and the fans still only kick on if I'm doing something intensive.

Vern said:

I'm basically never home. I fly at least once a week generally and do all my work on a laptop. 8gb is barely cutting it so I worry 16 will be not so great in a few years, but I don't really know. The way I look at it is If I'm gonna spend a couple grand on a laptop maxing our the specs for a few hundred dollars seems like the right move. I'd rather not buy another computer for 5-10 years if I can.

I don't game on computers, just edit videos and use Photoshop and Lightroom very heavily. My MacBook air freaks out when I edit photos these days, and videos give me a beach ball way too often.

I'll check your link. Thanks for the info and advice!

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You are in a tough spot, you have the need for a "beefier" machine due to your use case, but also travel, so weight is important. The good news is, if you do opt for the new 13in MPB, its just over three pounds, but the old MacBook Air was less then an ounce lighter.

You can go lighter than 3lbs with a 12in MacBook or similar machine from another company, but the chips those use will of course be a bit slower.

My suggestion, check out one of the Touchbar MBPs and confirm the negligible weight difference and then its just deciding if you want to spend ~$1800 on a new machine. By then maybe some reviews will confirm the chip benchmarks and if there are any keyboard issues with the 3rd gen butterfly switches.

Skel1ingt0n said:

I own a 14" Razer Blade, a 15" Surface Book 2, and a 2017 15" MBP.

In regular, non-gaming, non-rendering tasks (Web browsing, FB, Excel with some macros, Skype video chat, Spotify, etc all at once) all of them get warm. None of them are uncomfortably hot. BUT(!) the fans on the MBP stay damn near silent, versus the clearly audible noise caused by the other two. Most the time I'm not even certain the fans in the MBP are on. This is even more prevelant when you use additional external monitors that start stressing the GPU.

I hook my SB2 up to two 1080p displays via the dock, and the fans are on 99% of the time. I hook my MBP up to a 5K LG monitor and the fans still only kick on if I'm doing something intensive.

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Dude, slamhk already answered me. It's cool, they improved a lot with the 2017 model.

Apple is way ahead of the curve with the ports. USB-C is the one port to rule them all dream that people have had for decades. It's just a shame that other PC makers and accessory makers aren't committing to it yet. Yes the transition will be annoying but the quicker they do it, the quicker it's over with.

Upgrade the non-touchbar 15" and I'll buy