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Feb 24, 2018
5,251
Recently a few friends and I were discussing what we called the "Teen Phase" for fiction. The idea that over time, either a piece of fiction's creative teams, the companies who own them or its fandom will go through a phase were in an attempt to show how their work is "mature", relevant or/and serious, they will strip away any lighter or more sillier elements from the work in favour of more "mature" story-lines, much more darker tones, "edgier" character designs etc. Also often, the work or fans will actively mock the older stuff or said sillier elements in attempt to look more mature and to further distance themselves from it.

Often these phases are looked back with embarrassment or fitting into the "dork age" trope, often because these attempts at looking more mature ended up stripping away many of the elements that made the work likeable in the first place and come across as even more immature. The Dark Age of comic, especially the 90s EXTREME!!!!!!!! era is considered this for comics overall and things like The Ultimates books for the Avengers and the New52 Wonder Woman can be considered more specific examples (Don't read Ultimates 3 and Ultimatum, just don't). The Bayformers could be considered this for Transformers (along with the G2 comics), that terrible Thundercats comics for them etc.

However, while we heavily discussed comics, TV and films going through this, we didn't really discuss video games and I feel that many video games have gone through a "Teen Phase" as well. For the game creator's, Sonic I feel is a good example of this, with the mid-00s with games like Shadow the Hedgehog filling a lot of the above points. Same with Bomberman Act Zero or even with Mario with the movie (remember that Nintendo themselves approved a lot of those changes in attempt to look more mature and darker to compete with Sega's marketing at the time).

With fandoms, I personally saw this with the Tekken fandom around 2015-2016 went through this, the western fandom especially in a vein attempt to make the game series to be considered a more "serious" competitive game and/or Esport just as demanding the getting rid of all the joke characters like Kuma or the rather embarrassing backlash toward Lucky Chloe (something even Katsuhiro Harada had to mock and even incorporated into her official canon), forgetting that those silly elements is what made Tekken stand out over games like Virtua Fighter in the first place and are beloved parts of the series (plus the fact that man of those over Esports and competitive titles also have if not more silly and lighter elements).

As such, have you ever seen, heard or even experienced one of these "Teen phases" for your favourite game series? Either from the fandoms, creative teams or the companies who own them?
 

Robin

Restless Insomniac
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,503
The two obvious examples are Prince of Persia: Warrior Within and Jak II. Jak II was at least a fantastic game regardless but the first scene after the time skip having Jak straight up choke out Daxter was a bit over the top. Was glad they mellowed it out by 3 and found a balance. Bomberman: Act Zero. Never got around to playing it but from the trailers Dead Rising 3 looked a bit like this as well.
 

Deleted member 48434

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 8, 2018
5,230
Sydney
While the series itself didn't really do much other than pander to the fanbase, the Zelda fandom was awful about this after Wind Waker.
 

Kinsei

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
20,555
The Zelda fandom and Wind Waker. Probably the most infamous case of that when it comes to gaming fandoms.

DmC: Devil May Cry when it comes to games themselves.
 

retroman

Member
Oct 31, 2017
3,056
From this:
15850-jak-and-daxter-the-precursor-legacy-playstation-2-front-cover.jpg


To this:
39645-jak-ii-playstation-2-front-cover.jpg


41129-jak-3-playstation-2-front-cover.jpg
 

KushalaDaora

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,838
Doesn't exactly fit OP, but I feel like Monster Hunter World stripped a lot of goofy and weird stuff the series known for (there are still some goofy thing like the cats but its clearly less noticeable than previous entries).

Ex : Joke/weird weapons/armors gone, insane/eccentric NPC gone, humorous Quest description gone, flexing after drinking potion gone, etc.
 

Roytheone

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,159
The two obvious examples are Prince of Persia: Warrior Within and Jak II. Jak II was at least a fantastic game regardless but the first scene after the time skip having Jak straight up choke out Daxter was a bit over the top. Was glad they mellowed it out by 3 and found a balance. Bomberman: Act Zero. Never got around to playing it but from the trailers Dead Rising 3 looked a bit like this as well.

I would agree with jak 2. The new tone was Terrible. I would disagree that jak 2 was fantastic though, playing that game was one of the most miserable gaming experiences in my life. I hate it a lot. Doesn't help that I played the straight up garbage vita version that is legit nearly unplayable with how bad it is.

I would also say command and conquer 4. Gone are the fun campy selfawerness and in it's place is some piss poor attempt to be serious and dramatic. The gameplay was also boring shit. Insulting way to end the Tiberian saga.
 

.exe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,257
Twilight Princess's style was a real bummer. Worst looking game in the series and the whole wolf Link thing was also a disaster. Glad they got away from that.
 

Cenauru

Dragon Girl Supremacy
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,981
After discovering Kirby lore some people act like it's 100% pure grimdark for some reason.
 

Patitoloco

Member
Oct 27, 2017
23,714
The action Resident Evils (5 and 6 mainly). Even if I love 4, I'll never love the change in style.
 

mopinks

Member
Oct 27, 2017
30,578
I've never even played a Jak game but seeing what they did to him gives me some powerful secondhand embarrassment
 
Oct 29, 2017
4,721
Every modern AAA title is this right now.

Games have to be dark and gritty to be successful; and have to be a Gritty Hollywood Movie or a Gritty HBO Show. Mainstream titles aren't allowed to be anything else, and aren't allowed to be fun anymore.

Exceptions to this rule are extremely rare and are almost exclusively confined to the indie hemisphere of the industry.
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
As much as I love them, the Megaman games did this with X and then MM Zero. Going from 'crazed evil genius makes increasingly silly evil cartoony robots' to 'maverick hunters=blade runners', then 'multiple robot/reploid/human genocide' to 'extinction-level apocalyptic events/warfare, civilisations are holed up in their sole surviving cities'.

Much of that is the move towards the games having an overarching plot that justifies repeating the formula I suppose, rather than 'here's another 8 silly robots'.
 

Maledict

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,086
Every modern AAA title is this right now.

Games have to be dark and gritty to be successful; and have to be a Gritty Hollywood Movie or a Gritty HBO Show. Mainstream titles aren't allowed to be anything else, and aren't allowed to be fun anymore.

Exceptions to this rule are extremely rare and are almost exclusively confined to the indie hemisphere of the industry.

Literally the biggest game on the entire planet, by far, is a completely insane and zany light hearted lunatic romp.
 

Prof Bathtub

Member
Apr 26, 2018
2,677
It was kind of weird that Banjo started grunting when he jumped in Tooie, instead of his "woo"s from the first game. The destroyed spiral mountain and the often-overcast hub world with less jaunty music could also add to the perception that Banjo-Tooie was more "serious" than Banjo-Kazooie. I guess there are fewer objects with googly eyes around as well.

But there's no real change in the amount of humor, so of course I wouldn't call it an extreme "teen phase", let along one of the worst. I beat BT first, so I didn't really notice until I revisited BK.

I guess you could say Conker had this, but that's a whole other can of worms, and I'm pretty sure everybody prefers him that way.
 

Kinsei

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
20,555
It was kind of weird that Banjo started grunting when he jumped in Tooie, instead of his "woo"s from the first game. The destroyed spiral mountain and the often-overcast hub world with less jaunty music could also add to the perception that Banjo-Tooie was more "serious" than Banjo-Kazooie. I guess there are fewer objects with googly eyes around as well.

But there's no real change in the amount of humor, so of course I wouldn't call it an extreme "teen phase", let along one of the worst. I beat BT first, so I didn't really notice until I revisited BK.
That always just seemed like they were just raising the stakes to me. DKC2 did the same thing (albeit not to the same extent) with being slightly darker and more threatening than it's predecessor.
 
Oct 25, 2017
22,379
The two obvious examples are Prince of Persia: Warrior Within and Jak II. Jak II was at least a fantastic game regardless but the first scene after the time skip having Jak straight up choke out Daxter was a bit over the top. Was glad they mellowed it out by 3 and found a balance. Bomberman: Act Zero. Never got around to playing it but from the trailers Dead Rising 3 looked a bit like this as well.
Yep, those are the ones I wanted to mention as well.
 

Keldroc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,988
Every modern AAA title is this right now.

Games have to be dark and gritty to be successful; and have to be a Gritty Hollywood Movie or a Gritty HBO Show. Mainstream titles aren't allowed to be anything else, and aren't allowed to be fun anymore.

Exceptions to this rule are extremely rare and are almost exclusively confined to the indie hemisphere of the industry.

That's gonna be a no from me, dawg. I mean the biggest selling games of the last couple years include Spider-Man, Super Mario Odyssey, Super Smash Bros Ultimate, Monster Hunter World, Breath of the Wild, Cuphead, Forza Horizon 4, Mario Kart 8 Deluxe...certainly grim and gritty stuff also ranks in the charts, but "extremely rare"? Nah. I don't think your theory really holds up to scrutiny here.
 

Tokyo_Funk

Banned
Dec 10, 2018
10,053
Prince of Persia immediately comes to mind

images

Light hearted, fun romp that did not take itself seriously and a great reboot.

So what should we do about the sequel?

images


I know, let's make the Prince a complete edgelord/emo with a darker undertone, ramp up the violence and give the game a metal soundtrack.
 

stinkyguy666

Member
Nov 4, 2017
1,147
With Sonic it was so jarring because we went from corny kid-friendly stuff like this:
hqdefault.jpg

hqdefault.jpg

to this:
d2rbauqulnnz.jpg


...literally in the very next game
 

Prof Bathtub

Member
Apr 26, 2018
2,677
Another obligatory instance:

Goemon_Shin_Sedai_Sh%C5%ABmei%21.jpg


Though obviously did not see a western release, and a subsequent entry mocked it.
 
Last edited:

Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,809
With fandoms, I personally saw this with the Tekken fandom around 2015-2016 went through this, the western fandom especially in a vein attempt to make the game series to be considered a more "serious" competitive game and/or Esport just as demanding the getting rid of all the joke characters like Kuma or the rather embarrassing backlash toward Lucky Chloe (something even Katsuhiro Harada had to mock and even incorporated into her official canon), forgetting that those silly elements is what made Tekken stand out over games like Virtua Fighter in the first place and are beloved parts of the series (plus the fact that man of those over Esports and competitive titles also have if not more silly and lighter elements).
I'm gonna need an explainer on why folks hating on a bad character was embarassing. I also I don't remember the fanbase suggesting anything like getting rid of kuma and I don't think a single kotaku article suggests that.
 
Dec 2, 2017
20,656
Oh shadow the hedgehog for sure. There's a lot of bad sonic games, but shadow the hedgehog is the only one that tries so hard to be edgy teen cool and is genuinely unpleasant to play.
 

Aldo

Member
Mar 19, 2019
1,724
Not a fan, but Assassin's Creed and God of War were basically born as teenagers. I don't know about AC, but the last GoW had the balls to "mature" a bit at least.
 

SPRidley

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,238
Overstrike to Fuse, not even from a 1st game to a second, but testing the fantastic the incredibles type artstyle that the internet loved with a group of 13 year old edge lords that told them they wouldnt buy it because it looked for kids, changed drastically the artstyle to boring grim dark military shit (same with the story), then nobody bought it.
Good job!
 

MarcelRguez

Member
Nov 7, 2018
2,418
Advance Wars: Days of Ruin kinda fits, although retrospectively it might have been a desperate move made to find a bigger audience, not just to prove the series itself is 'mature'.
 

Mazinger

Banned
Nov 15, 2017
86
Ninja Gaiden 3

It already was gory and blazingly violent, but nobody asked for the whole "dark Japanese hero" shtick and all the forced QTEs of finishing off weakened humans that entailed it
 

NekoNeko

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
18,447
Final Fantasy 7 - 15

i hope we can go back to greatness again when they reach adulthood around 18-19.
 

Roytheone

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,159
A bit unfair if...


Jak 2 is a good game, even with its weird change in style.
Not on the vita it ain't. Imagine the very bad checkpoints in the game. Now imagine you dying a bunch because of glitches like the physics bugging out causing you being unable to jump from moving platforms half the time. And then thus getting put back all the way not by your fault but the crappy port job. Add the shitty framerate and important controls like going up and down on the scooter things being mapped to the back touch pad and you have something that imo is barely playable and one of my worst gaming experiences ever.
 

pbayne

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,391
DmC and Sonic is hard to top.

Dosen't really fit but i always laugh at the pokemon games when people bring up these really dark pokedex entries as if to show the pokemon games secretly have a dark backstory. I swear one of the games mentioned like a pokemon world war or something and that is the dumbest thing ever.
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
That's gonna be a no from me, dawg. I mean the biggest selling games of the last couple years include Spider-Man, Super Mario Odyssey, Super Smash Bros Ultimate, Monster Hunter World, Breath of the Wild, Cuphead, Forza Horizon 4, Mario Kart 8 Deluxe...certainly grim and gritty stuff also ranks in the charts, but "extremely rare"? Nah. I don't think your theory really holds up to scrutiny here.

Yeah, that post seems like it comes from the late 00s, which was gaming in general's own teen phase. Things have gotten much better now, which I'm endlessly grateful for. With Overwatch and Fortnite raking in the cash compared to more realistic games in their respective genres, I at least expect companies to wise up enough not to go down the grimdark rabbit hole in the near future.
 

KillstealWolf

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
16,099
DmC and Sonic is hard to top.

Dosen't really fit but i always laugh at the pokemon games when people bring up these really dark pokedex entries as if to show the pokemon games secretly have a dark backstory. I swear one of the games mentioned like a pokemon world war or something and that is the dumbest thing ever.

Yup, that was Pokemon X and Y relating to the Backstory of AZ.

sm4032J.jpg


maxresdefault.jpg


maxresdefault.jpg


Considering that X and Y has the worst plotline in the series, and we then went to the much more fluffier and bouncier Alola. I am probably prepared to say X/Y for the Pokemon series.

In fact, let's extend it to Gen 6 in general, that's the generation that also introduced Mega Evolutions and made Alternate Dimensions Canon.

uHEi68i.jpg


(It's also the generation that started pushing really hard into the Kanto Pandering, but that reached Critical Overload in Gen 7, not Gen 6.)
 

McNum

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,195
Denmark
So, why haven't anyone said Kingdom Hearts yet?

The original Kingdom Hearts was a fun light-hearted too crazy to be true crossover between Disney and Final Fantasy in which you beat up dark creatures with a giant key and the Power of Friendship. All in all, fun was had, and everything was fine.

Then some people in black leather trenchcoats showed up and the series hasn't really recovered from its teen phase since then. And then the story just took a nosedive from simple to weird to "I'm following it to see how far it'll plummet".

Now if this turn towards black leather is a good thing or not for the series is still up in the air, some of the better characters have worn that coat, even Mickey Mouse, which is hilarious. And at this point, Kingdom Hearts being a game of what a 12 year-old would think is totally cool is kind of part of the charm.

But still, look at the original game. Clearly its obvious future was full of people in black leather discussing basic philosophy and existentialism, right?