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Seductivpancakes

user requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,790
Brooklyn
I've been several times to watch Plinkett's review on the prequel so I can understand how much bad they were and how much people hate them

All that means to me is people can't form their own coherent opinions and looked to those videos for Plinkett's videos for confirmation bias, so I stayed away from them.

Glad I did when it turns out RLM giant shit heads.
 

Deleted member 4260

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,630
User Banned (1 week): antagonizing other posters
Yeah they're not a very good channel. Not to mention racist. They court some pretty stupid fans too, just look at the OT on this website, and how fervently they'll defend them if you say anything remotely bad.
 

lowmelody

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,101
IIRC, Jessie copped a bunch of harassment from weirdos and decided to stay off camera so, who knows where they're at with that.

RLM's shtick is more or less equal-opportunity mockery. They're cynics. They just as easily mock the crowd who ascribe meaning to the representation of women in big-budget blockbusters as they do to the people who complain about it.

"Equal opportunity mockery" is a flaccid white guy excuse for other white guys. Using 'equal opportunity' to excuse mockery of those literally less equal in society but using progressive language that would scare them if they didn't laugh at it.

this though

"They just as easily mock the crowd who ascribe meaning to the representation of women in big-budget blockbusters as they do to the people who complain about it."

Really does nail the crux of matter. It can be women, queer folk or poc and the result is the same; disaffected, willfully ignorant white boys that go out of their way to flaunt the concept of power structures so they blur it all together and shit on minorities with the limp below-it-all white guy license.

When you make no choice between oppressors and the oppressed and pretend the dichotomy doesn't exist, you are an oppressor. "Comedy" is not a magic concept that escapes that.
 

Khanimus

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
40,432
Greater Vancouver
It's been a while since I've seen Get Out, but isn't that sort of the central theme of the movie?

Instead of the villains abusing black people on racist ideological grounds, it is instead due to systemic racial economic equality. They are liberal elites who pat themselves on the back for rejecting racist ideology while still supporting an economic system of de facto racial oppression. I took it as Peele's takedown of the "post-race" attitude that enjoyed some popularity after Obama's election.
The family (and the community around them) still use black bodies as a resource. Sell them to one another, fetishize them for their own satisfaction, suppress their personhood, and if all that shit wasn't obvious enough, eat their cereal in a way that communicates "whites don't mix with colors". All because some fucking dude lost a race 70 years earlier to a black man. They are 100% racist as shit.

I don't know how someone watches that movie and thinks the antagonists aren't driven by racial malice.
 

svacina

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,439
Yeah they're not a very good channel. Not to mention racist. They court some pretty stupid fans too, just look at the OT on this website, and how fervently they'll defend them if you say anything remotely bad.
0ksWrOP.png
 

RedMercury

Blue Venus
Member
Dec 24, 2017
17,734
I'm not super familiar with them but if they have content like that that is still up, they haven't taken it down or edited it, tells you all you need to know
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,432
They seem to view it as the same as any other executive meddling into movie production. They think if these choices are being made for reasons outside the movie itself, then that is going to drag down the creative vision of the movie. I disagree with them here, but it is something they're frequently concerned about through different angles.

But look at the movies they are leveraging those critiques at. Am I really meant to take fears of executive meddling seriously in the latest MCU/star wars entry?



And that's a shitty critique in the first place, because they are never talking about creators being displeased that they had to be inclusive. They are always talking about VIEWERS being unhappy the universe is more inclusive. They see the creatives being taken 'hostage' by the public opinion of SJWs with no proof. They don't consider maybe this is the universe the creatives actually making the movie wanted, to sidestep having to address social concerns that otherwise would HAVE to be addressed if they were exclusive. There are functional positives in the movie universe itself, as well as the obvious external positives of inspiring and including viewers who are finally seeing themselves represented on screen.


EDIT: I've gotten my rant out. Sorry got rambling not really aimed at you lol.
 

Planx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,749
But look at the movies they are leveraging those critiques at. Am I really meant to take fears of executive meddling seriously in the latest MCU/star wars entry?



And that's a shitty critique in the first place, because they are never talking about creators being displeased that they had to be inclusive. They are always talking about VIEWERS being unhappy the universe is more inclusive. They see the creatives being taken 'hostage' by the public opinion of SJWs with no proof. They don't consider maybe this is the universe the creatives actually making the movie wanted, to sidestep having to address social concerns that otherwise would HAVE to be addressed if they were exclusive. There are functional positives in the movie universe itself, as well as the obvious external positives of inspiring and including viewers who are finally seeing themselves represented on screen.

Feels like the same sort of "ownership by familiarity" entitlement that I hate with so many star wars fans (really any IP but this is one I felt it most with.)
Ehhh, I think they shift plenty of the blame to the creators and studios themselves. My recollection isn't them framing it as "The studios HAVE to do it this way because those idiot SJW fans won't watch otherwise!" They usually frame it as "The studio sees all this woke stuff going on that they don't understand or truly care about, but they think they can make a buck off it." And I'm sympathetic towards that view because these are executives at multi-billion dollar studios making decisions they would have spat on a decade ago.

They don't view the positives because they are totally sheltered white dudes from Wisconsin, but I don't think RLM is tainted to the point where it needs to be thrown out
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,432
Ehhh, I think they shift plenty of the blame to the creators and studios themselves. My recollection isn't them framing it as "The studios HAVE to do it this way because those idiot SJW fans won't watch otherwise!" They usually frame it as "The studio sees all this woke stuff going on that they don't understand or truly care about, but they think they can make a buck off it." And I'm sympathetic towards that view because these are executives at multi-billion dollar studios making decisions they would have spat on a decade ago.

They don't view the positives because they are totally sheltered white dudes from Wisconsin, but I don't think RLM is tainted to the point where it needs to be thrown out

Sounds almost like theyre expecting heartfelt from executives who have never been motivated by anything other than money. Seems reasonable. /s

I guess I don't see the critique with the bolded? Yes, executives will push for inclusivity if they think it will be more profitable. And yes things change and good executives will be sensitive to that. What's his point? What's the problem? Maybe I need some specific examples where this bothered them because I don't get it!

EDIT: to me that sounds like a disingenuous argument from 2 people who know enough about executives and production to understand why that's a dumb argument. When did executives ever truly understand the creative process? It's always been money, and they know that. Which makes me think the real reason might just be they are mad at what is FINALLY being seen as financially viable in this space.
 
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BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
43,183
Yeah you're right Red Letter Media always has been a side job for Jack and if you look at Jack's twitter feed he appears to be doing a ton of work for the Escapist since he started working for them, plus he talks about how they all had to self isolate to have Jack on the last episode of Best of the Worst he appeared on:

I imagine we'll see more of Jack when the pandemic is over, he seemed pretty excited to be on the show again.


Ah, guess he is just busy. Dude is like the only legitimate good person on the crew that isn't a "centrist."
 

lowmelody

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,101
Sounds almost like theyre expecting heartfelt from executives who have never been motivated by anything other than money. Seems reasonable. /s

I guess I don't see the critique with the bolded? Yes, executives will push for inclusivity if they think it will be more profitable. And yes things change and good executives will be sensitive to that. What's his point? What's the problem? Maybe I need some specific examples where this bothered them because I don't get it!

It's identical to every other white dude that rails against "affirmative action". The fear of losing dominance.
 

Khezu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,950
They still get shit, but your not going to see it because no RLM fan is going to post a thread in the general forums because it would just turn into a shit show before the end of page 1.

So all the fans that are willing to ignore their shitty behavior will just stick to the community thread.

They walk a very thin line in how shitty they are, enough to turn off a lot of people, but not enough to be completely ostracized.

Rich Evans is a legit bad person though, and they really should lock him in a basement somewhere and never let him out again.
 

Violence Jack

Drive-in Mutant
Member
Oct 25, 2017
42,123
I still watch their ReView and Best of the Worst. The only Plinkett review I liked was breaking down Ghostbusters 2016. Everything else is kinda meh from them.
 

Jac_Solar

Member
Oct 28, 2017
259
You know, all these comments about RLM, of all things, being "racist, alt-right, anti-feminist pieces of shits" makes me question so much about what I've read on this site.
 

Jac_Solar

Member
Oct 28, 2017
259
Can you give an example of what you're suddenly questioning and why?

Comments people make about politicians, people in general, that I don't know much about. I used to just make a note of it to maybe avoid those kinds of people since people on ResetEra seem to think they are bad. But if people consider RLM racist/anti-feminist, then I guess the "bar" is pretty low here to make a snap judgement.
 

Redmond Barry

Member
Nov 24, 2017
893
Didn't Rich mock/criticize the 2017 Women's March with his rationale being that it was an immature temper tantrum, unfair to Trump? What did he say, if anything, about the insurrection nearly four years later?
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,432
Comments people make about politicians, people in general, that I don't know much about. I used to just make a note of it to maybe avoid those kinds of people since people on ResetEra seem to think they are bad. But if people consider RLM racist/anti-feminist, then I guess the "bar" is pretty low here to make a snap judgement.

Whatd you think of their captain marvel review?
 

Jac_Solar

Member
Oct 28, 2017
259
Whatd you think of their captain marvel review?

I can't remember seeing it. I will watch it later. But like I said earlier, I do agree that some of their views are dated and maybe cynical, but they've never come across as "alt-right pieces of shits".

EDIT: I had apparently watched it but didn't like it or dislike it, and I always Like their videos.
 

lowmelody

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,101
Comments people make about politicians, people in general, that I don't know much about. I used to just make a note of it to maybe avoid those kinds of people since people on ResetEra seem to think they are bad. But if people consider RLM racist/anti-feminist, then I guess the bar is pretty low here.

The bar isn't low here. Just don't excuse white privilege and ignorance.
 

19thCenturyFox

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,313
Part of the reason why these guys piss me off so much is because I'm pissed at myself for ignoring the dog whistles and red flags for so long, for fast forwarding the sexist and racist parts with disgust on my face and continuing to watch the rest of the video or the next video. I kept thinking to myself, well that's in bad taste, how ignorant or that they should know better and I hate to say it, if they hadn't gotten even worse it would have taken me longer to push the eject button and I probably would still be watching their videos.

With Mike and Jay it was always pretty difficult to tell apart the human being from the caricature but their crusade against gender diversity and racial diversity is clearly something that is not based in edgy attempts at comedy. When they say that Star Wars didn't pander to anyone back in they day, without realizing that it pandered exclusively to them, they are not playing stupid hicks, they're being stupid hicks. They are entirely devoid of empathy, curiosity and understanding for viewpoints that are not theirs and feel personally attacked when someone points out how much the entirely industry panders to people like them.

That's not the part they criticize though, they criticize the commercialization of the fandoms they are part of and the phony talking heads on fansites that sell bottled up nostalgia that is not their own. Their fight for ethics in corporate Hollywood filmmaking only extends as far as that. Exposing phonies, exposing greed and corruption for exploiting nerdy fandoms. Lumping societal changes and their influence on filmmaking into that is easy for them, instead of having the hard conversation or having to face fears and insecurities you can just blame it all on perceived SJWs and feel prosecuted based on that.

In have no patience for that shit anymore and the fact that I had so much patience for it has led me to learn some valuable lessons in retrospect.
 

lowmelody

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,101
I don't want to do that, but I just can't find it in me to hate on RLM. Does that make me a hypocrite?

I didn't mean you, I mean regards what is need to 'clear the bar'. Nobody is prompting their fans to hate them but they don't have to come to their defense either. I mean they can, but then that's when they hit that bar.
 

Extra Sauce

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,946
I took a long break from them after the embarrassing Captain Marvel review. they always had an edgelord "we'll mock all sides" attitude that is reminiscent of Matt Stone and Trey Parker's (not to imply their body of work are on the same level), in the sense that their overall cynicism pushed me away over time.

anyway I would echo the person in this thread who said they seem to have "cleaned up their act" to a certain degree recently. it definitely feels like there are jokes they made ten years ago that they wouldn't today, for whatever the hell that's worth. so yeah, I did start watching their stuff again during the pandemic.

the thing for me is I've long had a like/love/hate relationship with that channel but I've sort of made peace with the fact I seemingly won't ever find a single other movie related channel I enjoy, and Jay and Mike seem to have met me halfway in the slight evolution of their political sensibilities? we'll see.

and I used to find Jay insufferable but ironically his film sensibilities line up with mine to a disturbing degree when it comes to intensely obsessing over, and being highly appreciative of, yet laidback in the attempt at understanding weird, arty, genre adjacent fare.
 
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Jac_Solar

Member
Oct 28, 2017
259
I didn't mean you, I mean regards what is need to 'clear the bar'. Nobody is prompting their fans to hate them but they don't have to come to their defense either. I mean they can, but then that's when they hit that bar.

I guess I'm mostly trying to explain and rationalize why I enjoy them. But I will try my best to watch their content with what has been said in this thread in mind and not make any further excuses for them.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,110
They're not the best, but for guys that are visibly drinking the entire time they're on camera they could be a lot worse. Largely they've fallen on both sides of a lot of issues and never pushed anything too hard beyond bits on their shows (at least, that I'm aware of). They're also largely irrelevant right now. I think post Rise of Skywalker and in a year without movie a lot of people's interest in them has deflated. They themselves have seemed lost, content wise, for years. I think recognizing that they played a fair role in the downfall of the star wars movies kinda leaves them at a loss for any kind of enthusiastic or reputable content.

Their detraction of The Last Jedi and then subsequent realization that they might have plausibly caused Rise of Skywalker to happen very clearly seemed like a reckoning for them.
 

Planx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,749
Sounds almost like theyre expecting heartfelt from executives who have never been motivated by anything other than money. Seems reasonable. /s

I guess I don't see the critique with the bolded? Yes, executives will push for inclusivity if they think it will be more profitable. And yes things change and good executives will be sensitive to that. What's his point? What's the problem? Maybe I need some specific examples where this bothered them because I don't get it!

EDIT: to me that sounds like a disingenuous argument from 2 people who know enough about executives and production to understand why that's a dumb argument. When did executives ever truly understand the creative process? It's always been money, and they know that. Which makes me think the real reason might just be they are mad at what is FINALLY being seen as financially viable in this space.
So the main example for them would be Sony Pictures, they hate Sony Pictures because they view the studio as putting out endless poorly made, highly marketed movies.
youtu.be

Half in the Bag Episode 21: Jack and Jill (2 of 2)

ORIGINAL UPLOAD DATE: November 21, 2011Mike and Jay continue their discussion of Adam Sandler's evil scheme.

In particular, what they don't like is a sense of "tricking" people into watching a movie for reasons other than the movie itself. They feel that some studios will have a veneer of inclusivity, and then market that aspect as a reason to watch on its own instead of focusing on the movie. They view themselves as true movie lovers who care about it as an artform. They're snobby gatekeepers, and their criticism seems fairly well-rooted in that rather than bigotry.

It does cause them to be dismissive of good representation in art, but I don't understand how one could paint them as alt-right voices like some in this thread are doing.
 

19thCenturyFox

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,313
You've got to be fucking joking

I'm not. Garbage is something that has been left alone so far beyond its expiry date that it has started to give off a rancid odor, that's the state the channel and crew working on it are in. They are garbage.

There is enough evidence for the alt right part and the Fox News esque pandering towards toxic fandoms in this thread and its 2019 counterpart that I don feel like elaborating on that part anymore.
 

lowmelody

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,101
I guess I'm mostly trying to explain and rationalize why I enjoy them. But I will try my best to watch their content with what has been said in this thread in mind and not make any further excuses for them.

Yeah that pretty much what all of us can do. We all consume problematic shit, no doubt. The crossed wires genrally come from using that consumption as the animus to defend it.
 

Adulfzen

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,619
they're a prime example of "white privilege" where they get to make a bunch of incendiary comments all the time and have people protect them saying it's just "comedy"
Rich Evans is a piece of shit
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,405
I'm not. Garbage is something that has been left alone so far beyond its expiry date that it has started to give off a rancid odor, that's the state the channel and crew working on it are in. They are garbage.

There is enough evidence for the alt right part and the Fox News esque pandering towards toxic fandoms in this thread and its 2019 counterpart that I don feel like elaborating on that part anymore.
Sad to see that the word "alt-right" has lost all meaning in 4 short years
 

Merv

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,472
I like the channel, but obviously can't defend everything they do.

They are very cynical, but Jay seems like a legit good dude. He, right or wrong, often tries to take the edge off of Rich and to a lesser extent Mike's problematic comments.

Mike might be the most cynical and has his fair share of hot takes that I can see people taking issue with.

Rich is just the worst. He has the worst takes and zero filter.

I like pretty much all the guests they have, I like the re:Views, Best of the Worst and to a lesser extent Half in the Bag. I'm glad they more or less stopped Plinkett. I would be lying if I said I haven't watched them all, but I don't enjoy them anymore and would only watch a new one to see if they manage to make it not unbearable to watch.

They're snobby gatekeepers, and their criticism seems fairly well-rooted in that rather than bigotry.

I think this is a pretty good analysis, but also see why some don't give them the benefit of the doubt.
 

Planx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,749
I think this is a pretty good analysis, but also see why some don't give them the benefit of the doubt.
Yeah I don't blame anyone for bouncing off them, they're abrasive assholes who don't think through their takes and jokes. But I do like watching them be tortured by unlabelled VHS tapes
 

KDC720

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,376
They get plenty of much deserved criticism on this site for sure. I don't really expect a group consisting of mostly middle aged white dudes to be the most woke or progressive bunch, but they have had some phenomenally problematic takes over the years. Rich Evans sucks too, there is no defending him at this point.

As others have mentioned, re:View is probably the best show they have going right now, it's about as unproblematic as it gets. Best of the Worse typically isn't too bad either. It's mostly Half in the Bag where a lot of the shitty takes come out.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
116,664
I viscerally dislike Rich Evans and I honestly think the shtick of "Rich sucks and we all know it, so it's okay he gets to say whatever he wants" wore off years ago. It was funny when I was like 25, but that was a long time ago. Jack and to a lesser extent Jay have grown up a fair bit since those days but it feels like Rich is exactly the same asshole he's always been.

I imagine it's just borne of the fact that at the end of the day, Rich is Mike's best friend and Mike has the final say.
 

ArjanN

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,145
They've definitely toned that stuff down compared to back in the day but it still pops up occasionally, and yeah, it sucks.
 
Oct 26, 2017
17,457
They're cynical and sometimes crass when it has come to stuff like that in the past, but I've watched a lot of their content and for every bad example people bring up there's a good example of their views on the same exact topic. They do deserve to be criticized though, but people making judgements on the entirety of their views based on minimal information has always rubbed me the wrong way.
 

19thCenturyFox

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,313
Sad to see that the word "alt-right" has lost all meaning in 4 short years

It's right wing people who don't see themselves as that and pretend to fight unseen malicious forces that are trying to mindwipe us all into being "sheeple" without free will. For me that has always been the number one alt right/gamer gate/we live in a society identifier.

It's not the widest net but it definitively catches Red Letter Media.
 
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