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Why does the PS5 not support 1440p?
- Thread starter Kotze282
- Start date
MS is a software company, they have way more resources to get these features implemented. Plus Xbox OS is built on top of Windows which already has these features. Sony just chooses to prioritize the futures that most people will use.
yeah, you're right. I recall the ps4 didn't have a copy and paste early on.
I bought this LG TV specifically because it supports VRR as well as GSync. If Sony is going back on the reported support, I might need to rethink this preorder. I already bought 3 years of Xbox Ultimate (for my PC) but the PC game selection isn't nearly as good as console. Maybe it's time to go back like 2 generations ago. Microsoft is knocking the BC and 2.1 support out of the park.
I am sure it will get released in an update... along with VRR, ALLM, and 8K output. I mean, 8K is on the box... and I guarantee you there are a fuck ton more people with 1440p displays than 8k displays. So that whole argument about it not being worth supporting due to a small percentage of users having it makes no sense to me. This is not an attack on Sony, it's a request from 1440p users. No need to be so defensive.
It's just specifying another output resolution which the GPU supports. And the EDID will tell the console if it's even an option, so if it's not then the user can't even select it.
It's just specifying another output resolution which the GPU supports. And the EDID will tell the console if it's even an option, so if it's not then the user can't even select it.
Most monitors have mediocre upscaling, so 1080p stretched to 1440p looks bad.
Agreed disappointing. I dont have a living room to play games so I primarily game on my 1440p monitor in my room.
Thank you. There is then a big negative impact in image quality. I can understand why we would all want this option now.
What is Sony not doing/configuring then? How hard would it be for the software/hardware to support this?
I'm still a bit confused. So for example, I have an LG OLED that apparently says it doesn't support 1440p. So when watching a test of TLOU2, it says it's running at 1440p. I know that there are almost no PS4 games that run in native 4k, so I assumed I was getting 1440p this whole time.
So what exactly is happening on my TV? If TLOU2 output is 1440p, and my TV doesn't support that (it doesn't, just googled), am I getting a checkerboard 4k resolution or is it actually all the way down to 1080p?
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There are no 1440p TVs. Sony don't care about people using their consoles with PC monitors.
You're getting a 4K output with it being a 1440p image upscaled to 4K by the console h/w. It could be a simple upscaling or some resolution reconstruction approach, it depends on a game what it is using to get to 4K output.
You're confusing rendering resolution with output resolution.
Yes, a lot of PS4 games render internally at 1440p. TLOU2 is a good example. Your PS4 upscales that image (really well) and outputs a full 4k signal to your TV so your TV is getting a nice native image in and doesn't have to do anything. Likewise, if you're on a 1080p TV your PS4 will output the image at 1080p. Basically the console is doing the work to make sure that the outputted image looks good on a 1080p or 4k TV.
Some people play on 1440p monitors. Unless they have a nice expensive one that can take a 4k signal, the PS5 won't see a 4K display on the end of the HDMI cord (because it's a 1440p monitor) so it will output at 1080p (lower than the resolution of the monitor). The monitor will then stretch that 1080p image to fill it's frame and monitors are usually terrible at upscaling so it'll likely look blurry, like you stretching a jpg to a larger size. What people want is for the PS5 to support 1440p as an output resolution so that the console can give the monitor a nice, native 1440p image. As per your example, TLOU2 played on (most) 1440p monitors would be outputted at 1080p despite the game itself rendering at 1440p simply because PlayStations don't support 1440p output.
Im hoping 1440p at 120fps will be fairly common next gen. It's dumb not to support 1440p if so.
I figure for now I can just plug a PS5 into my HDMI switch as another 1080p device to feed into my 1440p ultrawide g-sync monitor and go from there. 1440p support would be nice but for me it'd be a complicated mess at my desk where I'd have to get a bunch of extra electronics accessories to sort it out between my other devices, the monitor and my DAC/amp setup. I can at least hold off on all that until Sony adds support, if ever.
What sucks is that in the FAQ Sony just released, they talk about enabling support for 8K in the future, but no such mention of 1440p. So niche resolutions like 8K and 1440p are both absent around launch, but 8K will at least eventually be supported. Which at least makes it sound like it takes some work to support other resolutions. I can understand prioritizing one resolution over another for on-going work, but they really don't want to even acknowledge the existence of 1440p.
Sorry for being insulting.
That was meant to be a jovial "weirdos", but it doesn't matter, as that's easily lost in translation, and I can see how my post was flippant and disrespectful.
When something that seems standard or expected to work, does not work, I do wonder why, but more than getting an answer, I just want it to work.
But I don't want to disrespect people who don't deserve it or contribute to some badness, there's enough of that going around already and it's not helpful.
So thanks for the callout. I'm gonna try to do better. Consider the people doing the work, and that I typically don't have a clue what their work actually entails.
They are not prioritizing it because they think they can get away without doing it. Most games out there right now regulate their internal render resolution on the fly. I refuse to believe that 1440p output would be an insurmountable obstacle.
It is not the first time they have done this: The PS3 did not support 1080i output resolution initially so owners of rear-projection TVs were screwed. And those were actual TVs - not monitors.
I do not believe that 1440p screen owners are a large portion of the market, but I belive we should expect featureset improvement generation over generation. The people who dismiss this would be satisfied with whatever Sony would see fit to give them.
It is not the first time they have done this: The PS3 did not support 1080i output resolution initially so owners of rear-projection TVs were screwed. And those were actual TVs - not monitors.
I do not believe that 1440p screen owners are a large portion of the market, but I belive we should expect featureset improvement generation over generation. The people who dismiss this would be satisfied with whatever Sony would see fit to give them.
The Xbox Series OS is the same one as the Xbox One OS, with some changes made to accommodate for newer hardware. As the OS isn't being rewritten from the ground up again, features like the ones you've mentioned pretty much carry over.
Sony will get around to implementing those features but a new OS means reinventing the wheel. It's why I was surprised to see so many clamour for it lol
I have a Sony X900F, which supports 1440p 120hz, and is one of their best TV'S of last year. If a game has the option of having 1440p 120fps, I can't use it unless I put the output at 1080p (where I would lose image quality), or 4k but since I got HDMI 2.0 I won't be able to get that 120fps. Just because it isn't a huge margin of the market doesn't mean they shouldn't think about doing it, especially if it's gonna be a common resolution this Gen and if the competition supports it. I can't think that it takes that much effort to do.
New OS is definitely overrated. Although it's hard to say without knowing what's going on behind the scenes. Maybe the OS is designed with future feature additions in mind that would have been clumsy to implement on the current OS. But yeah, it definitely means it will be barebones at launch
Oh yeah I don't claim to know what is behind the scenes of a new OS (especially these days, the source codes tend to be massive lol) but it sucks right now cuz we don't even have friggin' folders. If and when the PS6 hits, if the new OS doesn't carry over I will be baffled, but that's a concern for the future. I'm just glad one of my consoles won't be giving me 2013 levels of incomplete again lol
I suspect part of it is that Xboxes have traditionally just down/upscaled content that wasn't the native resolution, so it always running stuff at a certain resolution, while Sony makes that an option and it can just pipe out the set resolution too if the developer chooses to do so.
But, super sampling and the fact "secret 1080p performance modes" are a thing shows that they could implement it, even if it's just as a forced supersampling resolution and no developer can directly support it. And hopefully they give a shit with 120hz thrown into the mix rather than going "nah, too fringe" even as TVs rather than Monitors are falling into that 1440p/120hz niche.
But, super sampling and the fact "secret 1080p performance modes" are a thing shows that they could implement it, even if it's just as a forced supersampling resolution and no developer can directly support it. And hopefully they give a shit with 120hz thrown into the mix rather than going "nah, too fringe" even as TVs rather than Monitors are falling into that 1440p/120hz niche.
While 1440p is clearly very rare in the TV space, I have to imagine at this point it's rather common in the monitor space, as 1440p is a pretty perfect sweet spot between image quality and performance.
I personally have a 1440p monitor that I would very much like to be able to use with the PS5.
I personally have a 1440p monitor that I would very much like to be able to use with the PS5.
Sad thing to see a few console exclusive players taking the 'consoles are for TV's, suck it neeerds' stance, not so cleverly wrapped in terms like 'niche' and 'edge case'.
It's not just support for the existing base of 1440p monitors they are neglecting, they're killing off a very interesting upgrade path for current 1080p users that want a 24'-30' screen and (rightly) feel at that size 4k is not really practical and much more expensive. Microsoft supports 1440p, and even 120hz and Freesync through HDMI 2.0 on day one, it's perfectly fair to ask why Sony can't.
Also Steam has 90 million active accounts. 7% of that still seems like quite a lot to me. If that's all you're basing your claim it's just 'a few hundred people' on, well.. and I don't think you or anyone here really knows how many 'orders of magnitude' lower would be the percentage of existing 1440p owners that are also interested in becoming a PS5 early adopter.
Which explains why there's support for 720p and 1080i but not 1440p. Actually, no, it doesn't, it's a completely stupid argument.
If Sony's goal is to please the 'majority' of users at this time they could just support 1080p60 tvs, perhaps 4k60 if they're feeling generous and call it a day, why bother with the HDMI 2.1 feature set at all, which is likely far less extended than 1440p monitors are in the here and now.
It's not just support for the existing base of 1440p monitors they are neglecting, they're killing off a very interesting upgrade path for current 1080p users that want a 24'-30' screen and (rightly) feel at that size 4k is not really practical and much more expensive. Microsoft supports 1440p, and even 120hz and Freesync through HDMI 2.0 on day one, it's perfectly fair to ask why Sony can't.
Also Steam has 90 million active accounts. 7% of that still seems like quite a lot to me. If that's all you're basing your claim it's just 'a few hundred people' on, well.. and I don't think you or anyone here really knows how many 'orders of magnitude' lower would be the percentage of existing 1440p owners that are also interested in becoming a PS5 early adopter.
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For those thinking there are basically no 1440p screen users: 1440p is currently the absolute sweet spot for gaming monitors at the moment. You can get exceptional image quality + 144hz for under $500 from countless brands, with any panel type (except OLED :( ), and with HDR if you wanna spend a bit more. For driving a high refresh rate, it's the resolution of choice over on PC for users that also care at least a little about image quality. The market of consumers with 1440p screens is only going to increase for the next few years as budget cards are capable of easily driving those displays (which are arguably already budget class). High refresh 4k is still really expensive and difficult to drive, and upscale blur is way more noticeable when you're a foot or 2 from the screen.
So yes, Sony absolutely should support 1440p output, because college students and high schoolers that game in their bedroom aren't putting up 55" TVs most of the time, and supporting it also sells to another important market for them: PC gamers that want their exclusives. And you know what's a really bad look? Resolutions between 1440p and 4k, upscaled to 4k with whatever scaling shenanigans a game is going to do, downscaled to 1080p by the console, upscaled to 1440p. Seriously, it looks awful scaling that much.
So yes, Sony absolutely should support 1440p output, because college students and high schoolers that game in their bedroom aren't putting up 55" TVs most of the time, and supporting it also sells to another important market for them: PC gamers that want their exclusives. And you know what's a really bad look? Resolutions between 1440p and 4k, upscaled to 4k with whatever scaling shenanigans a game is going to do, downscaled to 1080p by the console, upscaled to 1440p. Seriously, it looks awful scaling that much.
it wouldn't even be 0.5-2% b/c in the launch window it'd be probably statistically 0%
Sure, and that's a good anecdote/user story.
I'm not saying it won't ever get built at all -- in fact, I get a good feeling it will. But Sony likely has the EDID of every display device ever hooked up to over 100 million PS4s. And I'm willing to bet the number of devices supporting 1440p is a small blip, enough so that it simply does not matter for launch, neither in a tactical nor strategic sense.
Nobody is going to not buy a PS5 at launch over 1440p support (except for maybe that one dude). These are the kinds of things you think about when deciding "do I add an untested additional resolution option before launch, or have teams work on refining X or Y that will be touched by virtually every user of the console?". The choice is clear.
No offense taken, really. I just wish enthusiasts who want to engage with "the industry" were more receptive to actually listening to how things get done in "the industry".
Nobody here knows, you're right, but you can bet Sony's product team making these decisions has access to the aggregate EDIDs for every single PS4 ever plugged into a display device.
Not to say they are infallible, companies mess up all the time, this just probably isn't the big deal you'd think it is from reading this thread, and companies look at a lot of data before making these types of decisions which most people here probably don't realize.
Is this true? I was under the impression that that's one of the more popular resolutions for PC monitor use (personal bias: I'm on a 27" 1440p144 monitor right now).
Most people on Steam still play at 1080p (65% to be more precise) https://lordsofgaming.net/2020/09/o...l-playing-in-1080p-according-to-steam-survey/
Could their approach to checkerboarding factor into this at all? In that it's just quadrupling the 1080p res to 4K and that doesn't square with 1440p?
I'm not implying the PS5 or PS4 Pro aren't *powerful enough* to get a 1080p image to 1440p or squash a 2160p to 1440p, but rather their technical approach to it at a hardware level *WITHIN THE PS4 Pro* was to support either 1080p or 2160p, period. And that due to this there would need to be extra steps in the chain to get legacy software (if we're going to assume 1440p is going to be a PS5 only thing) to scale *well* to a 1440p screen from whatever internal resolutions games are running at. (this is me asking, I genuinely don't know, but it would be great if DF could investigate further)
Hopefully it's already on the list of things Sony is working on for PS5 updates. Not that I would use it but at least to give those desk + PC monitor console players out there some flexibility in their setups.
EDIT: By the way, going off a thread someone referenced yesterday in one of the PS5 BC mode test threads, it seems that the majority of PS4/Pro games that supported higher than 1080p and "targeted" 4K were running at 1800p. So just an FYI if it matters.
I'm not implying the PS5 or PS4 Pro aren't *powerful enough* to get a 1080p image to 1440p or squash a 2160p to 1440p, but rather their technical approach to it at a hardware level *WITHIN THE PS4 Pro* was to support either 1080p or 2160p, period. And that due to this there would need to be extra steps in the chain to get legacy software (if we're going to assume 1440p is going to be a PS5 only thing) to scale *well* to a 1440p screen from whatever internal resolutions games are running at. (this is me asking, I genuinely don't know, but it would be great if DF could investigate further)
Hopefully it's already on the list of things Sony is working on for PS5 updates. Not that I would use it but at least to give those desk + PC monitor console players out there some flexibility in their setups.
EDIT: By the way, going off a thread someone referenced yesterday in one of the PS5 BC mode test threads, it seems that the majority of PS4/Pro games that supported higher than 1080p and "targeted" 4K were running at 1800p. So just an FYI if it matters.
Excuses for the multi-billion dollar corporation the thread. I'm buying both and planned on playing both on my 1440p monitor. MS has offered that output for years and Sony still can't be bothered. It's bullshit.
Well it can be another profile if it was something like a pixel art game, where the assets have to be manually scaled to other resolutions. I don't know if anyone is making a snes-like sprite based game anytime soon but that would be the case where it isn't as simple as using the hardware scaler
This is wrong. Outputting 1440p specifically when a game is designed to run at 1080p or 4K means it will affect the UI, PP, etc. has to be tested as a mode.
I'm not saying it isn't doable, but it isn't just some random switch they hit. The approach for supporting 1440p across all new games as well as all 4000 PS4 titles that work with BC has to be determined and then tested for irregularities.
They could adopt a downsample method of taking the 4K output and scaling for 1440p for the least amount of issues, but it STILL has to be coded, tested, etc.
I've been doing all my gaming on a 1440p monitor for years now. I dealt through it on the PS4 Pro but this is getting ridiculous. A large amount of PC gamers choosing to upgrade monitors are going to go for 1440p, especially since they are in the crowd that prioritizes framerates above 60fps.
This entire section of PC power users is going to be alienated because not everyone wants to purchase an overpriced 4k monitor that has subpar HDR and 60hz, especially when compared to the value you get with a 4k TV.
It may seem trivial to some but I'm certain that this resolution is only going to grow in popularity with that crowd. Especially since 4k gaming is still very taxing even on newer GPU's even with current gen games.
I play on a desk, my living room tv is for the family, there's no reason Microsoft can offer it and Sony cannot, especially since people have been asking for it for years, and I've been following those topics, this time people are being much, much more vocal compared to the PS4 Pro.
You have to understand what this is asking for isn't difficult or complicated, the games can still render however Sony wants them too, we're literally just asking for the PS5 to accept a signal for that resolution and rescale the UI.
This entire section of PC power users is going to be alienated because not everyone wants to purchase an overpriced 4k monitor that has subpar HDR and 60hz, especially when compared to the value you get with a 4k TV.
It may seem trivial to some but I'm certain that this resolution is only going to grow in popularity with that crowd. Especially since 4k gaming is still very taxing even on newer GPU's even with current gen games.
I play on a desk, my living room tv is for the family, there's no reason Microsoft can offer it and Sony cannot, especially since people have been asking for it for years, and I've been following those topics, this time people are being much, much more vocal compared to the PS4 Pro.
You have to understand what this is asking for isn't difficult or complicated, the games can still render however Sony wants them too, we're literally just asking for the PS5 to accept a signal for that resolution and rescale the UI.
Even if you had a 1440p monitor in the PS4 days you'd have probably preferred to hook it to any other 1080p display you had lying around, as 1080p scaled to 1440p looks rather bad.
Using those aggregate EDIDs collected from PS4 consoles would be something of a self fulfilling prophecy.. let's gauge demand for PS5 1440p support by counting the number of 1440p displays used with our previous console that didn't support 1440p :P
You're probably right in that Sony doesn't feel at this point this is a very pressing matter for them, not saying they're right or wrong, but I hope enough noise is made about it, and good review sites like Digital Foundry pointing all this out and contrasting with the much better support in Series X might help, that Sony is forced to at least acknowledge it's an arbitrary omission that's affecting a number of their clients and prospective clients.
I thought the Series X UI renders at 1080p? Or does it now also do 1440/1800p?
I wouldn't except 1440p 120 fps being common if i were you, 1080p 120fps is where i except most game that support high refresh rate will stand.
Guys, I'm not saying sony doesn't need to give us the option. I just think it is a very small thing. I would be really upset if we don't have any real next-gen game to play. And we'll have spider-man Miles Morales and Demon's Souls Remake on the first day! And a bunch of other triple AAA exclusive games in the first year.
Just because the voices are loud in a niche community doesn't mean its loud for Sony.
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Don't assume its next to no effort to implement when it seems easy to your ears. Plenty of easy sounding things in hardware and software development are much harder to do than you think.
Xbox has had it since they switched over to a branch of windows for their OS, with windows having that support for ages being a PC OS which has new resolutions coming out of the ears every day. If it would not be for windows OS to be used on the Xbox consoles, I doubt xbox would have supported 1440p since it is not a TV standard resolution.
I would say 1440p isn't niche. Remember that 70% of the PC market is made up of laptops. So steam hardware surveys are really skewed towards popular laptop configurations ie. 1080p laptops with a GTX 1050/1060.
Buying a monitor today its pretty freaking hard to not get a QHD monitor because Lenovo, HP etc. all sell QHD monitors at super entry level prices. This isnt 5-10 years ago where youre on ebay looking for korean brand sets cause 1440p was a premium feature.
Buying a monitor today its pretty freaking hard to not get a QHD monitor because Lenovo, HP etc. all sell QHD monitors at super entry level prices. This isnt 5-10 years ago where youre on ebay looking for korean brand sets cause 1440p was a premium feature.
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