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OP
OP
fleet

fleet

Member
Jan 2, 2019
644
Obviously counting calories is step 1, but how do you feel about lifting weights?

i would like to, i actually bought two baby 5 kilo weights the other day. i just have no idea how to start. i mean i know the gist of it is to lift weight up and put weight down. but for how long? every few days i've just been lifting them while watching netflix, not to lose weight or anything, but to strengthen my shoulder which is a bit screwed from a childhood injury.
 

Avitus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,946
really!?!?! this was the inhouse dietician at my gp's practice. growing up, being pretty thin, I never had to worry about things like macros and diets and calories so when this guy told me to eat THIS and not THAT I just blindly followed along. I don't know anything about keto except when I googled it when I got home from that visit, it was the latest best thing to lose weight. I was really disappointed when it just made me feel sick (I know about "keto flu" or whatever but mine lasted the whole month I was doing the diet and I felt hypo). I remember feeling really disappointed in myself that I couldn't do it.

DKA is different from normal ketosis, and rare in type 2 diabetes.

Given your trouble with logging food and counting calories, it's very probable you weren't getting enough fat and protein while on keto, leading you into feeling bad.

I would recommend watching and reading things posted by Dr. Fung. He uses keto and fasting in a clinical environment to treat type 2 diabetes, with great success. He has books out but you can find articles on websites and numerous lectures he has given on youtube. I promise you it's not a waste of time.
 

tadaima

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,843
Tokyo, Japan
Even though you are consuming low-carb meals it does seem like you still have a moderate carb intake. You need to reduce your carbs to as little as possible.

This includes being selective about fruit and vegetables, which is what can bite you in a low-carb diet. Opt for low-carb/high protein veggies such as broccoli and asparagus.

Importantly, you need to cut crackers and toast/bread as they are stuffed full of carbs. It sounds like you are eating a lot of these each day.

It is the carbs that your body will transform into fat, so try to replace them with proteins if possible.

I recommend starting with a large meal in the day and ending with a small one. And try to eat after your cardio workout.
 

Broken Hope

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,316
Next thing you should do is NEVER see that dietitian again. What he suggested is essentially malpractice, if that concept even applies to his profession in Australia. Granted, diabetic ketoacidosis (DKA), a serious complication for diabetics, is not as common in Type 2 DM, but DKA is life-threatening and one component of said danger is in causing your blood to become overly acidic secondary to ketones. For him to suggest that you should follow a diet that revolves solely around creating and mobilizing even more ketones in your body would be grounds for a lawsuit you would win any day of the week if anything serious had actually happened. You probably caught glimpses of this as your blood sugars were likely going every which way during this diet.

Funny cause official diabetes pages recommend the Ketogenic diet for diabetes control.

 
OP
OP
fleet

fleet

Member
Jan 2, 2019
644
Even though you are consuming low-carb meals it does seem like you still have a moderate carb intake. You need to reduce your carbs to as little as possible.

This includes being selective about fruit and vegetables, which is what can bite you in a low-carb diet. Opt for low-carb/high protein veggies such as broccoli and asparagus.

Importantly, you need to cut crackers and toast/bread as they are stuffed full of carbs. It sounds like you are eating a lot of these each day.

It is the carbs that your body will transform into fat, so try to replace them with proteins if possible.

I recommend starting with a large meal in the day and ending with a small one. And try to eat after your cardio workout.

i'd like to move away from really restrictive diets. i know you are *right* but not being able to eat most foods i'd eaten my whole life just wasn't working. i'm not talking about icecream and pasta, i mean like, eating an apple or nuts that weren't keto-friendly. for me, eating a whole plate of vegetables that aren't keto friendly (although obviously not like potato or whatever) and feeling happy about it is better than feeling miserable eating asparagus and beans which i can't stand. and i eat 3 crackers and cheese. not a whole plate of them. and my bread is this weird health food store stuff that's made out of soy and has 5g of carb per slice.
 
OP
OP
fleet

fleet

Member
Jan 2, 2019
644
DKA is different from normal ketosis, and rare in type 2 diabetes.

Given your trouble with logging food and counting calories, it's very probable you weren't getting enough fat and protein while on keto, leading you into feeling bad.

I would recommend watching and reading things posted by Dr. Fung. He uses keto and fasting in a clinical environment to treat type 2 diabetes, with great success. He has books out but you can find articles on websites and numerous lectures he has given on youtube. I promise you it's not a waste of time.

that's probably it. if i wasn't getting enough protein and fat i would have felt like garbage right? either way, i don't think i am suited to that diet.
 

tadaima

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,843
Tokyo, Japan
i'd like to move away from really restrictive diets. i know you are *right* but not being able to eat most foods i'd eaten my whole life just wasn't working. i'm not talking about icecream and pasta, i mean like, eating an apple or nuts that weren't keto-friendly. for me, eating a whole plate of vegetables that aren't keto friendly (although obviously not like potato or whatever) and feeling happy about it is better than feeling miserable eating asparagus and beans which i can't stand. and i eat 3 crackers and cheese. not a whole plate of them. and my bread is this weird health food store stuff that's made out of soy and has 5g of carb per slice.
I understand. Last year I started the diet and tried to keep my carb intake close to zero for three months. It was hell. I hated every moment of it. But combined with the cardio, I lost a lot of weight. However, I have since switched to a more "balanced" diet which cares less about counting carbs and more about eating healthily (home cooking for example) which although has led to stabilisation in my weight, has resulted in more happiness.

You are exactly on the right track with 30 - 40 minutes of cardio (walking). My personal trainer recommended exactly the plan. I think you may be able to maintain your current diet but shifting the timing of your meals to see better effects.

Also, I read in the thread that you are interested in strength training. Personally the cardio was more effective than the strength training for me, but the strength training has helped me to become slightly more lean. I recommend starting simple. Pick one part of your body you want to improve and focus on it. For example, your abs. Ease into it with just a few reps of some simple exercises (such as sit-ups and planking) and work up to whatever you feel comfortable with.

Six months ago I had never done a bench press in my life. Now I am under 60kg and lifting 35kg. This may not sound like a lot to many people, but it is huge for me. Previously I basically had as close zero muscle as you can get for an able-bodied person. I passionately hated even the idea of doing a sit-up. I sort of enjoy it now.
 
OP
OP
fleet

fleet

Member
Jan 2, 2019
644
I understand. Last year I started the diet and tried to keep my carb intake close to zero for three months. It was hell. I hated every moment of it. But combined with the cardio, I lost a lot of weight. However, I have since switched to a more "balanced" diet which cares less about counting carbs and more about eating healthily (home cooking for example) which has led to stabilisation in my weight and, generally, more happiness.

You are exactly on the right track with 30 - 40 minutes of cardio (walking). My personal trainer recommended exactly the plan. I think you may be able to maintain your current diet by shifting the timing of your meals to see better effects.

Also, I read in the thread that you are interested in strength training. Personally the cardio was more effective than the strength training for me, but the strength training has helped me to become slightly more lean. I recommend starting simple. Pick one part of your body you want to improve and focus on it. For example, your abs. Ease into it with just a few reps of some simple exercises (such as sit-ups and planking) and work up to whatever you feel comfortable with.

Six months ago I had never done a bench press in my life. Now I am under 60kg and lifting 35kg. This may not sound like a lot to many people, but it is huge for me. Previously I basically had as close zero muscle as you can get for an able-bodied person. I passionately hated even the idea of doing a sit-up. I sort of enjoy it now.

that's fantastic, congratulations. you must be really happy with your progress. it's true that i do want to lose weight - duh - but i want to do it slowly and for my whole life, rather than very quickly, because i think that if i pushed myself that hard i would "relapse" and just want to eat pizza all day. but if i can slowly change my diet then i can slowly lose a few kilos. my issue is that i'm putting ON kilos, but thanks to everyone's responses i'm tweaking it a bit further to hopefully see some changes.
 

FUME5

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,421
i would like to, i actually bought two baby 5 kilo weights the other day. i just have no idea how to start. i mean i know the gist of it is to lift weight up and put weight down. but for how long? every few days i've just been lifting them while watching netflix, not to lose weight or anything, but to strengthen my shoulder which is a bit screwed from a childhood injury.

Ok, first stop should be to read the fit era thread https://www.resetera.com/threads/fitness-ot-a-new-era-begins.727/

There's a wealth of information there to put you on the right track. I'd also suggest reading Mark Rippetoe's book Starting Strength to understand the biomechanics at play.

Good luck!
 

Avitus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,946
i'd like to move away from really restrictive diets. i know you are *right* but not being able to eat most foods i'd eaten my whole life just wasn't working.

You should view your Type 2 as a condition (or more bluntly, a type of sickness) that needs to be treated with a certain approach rather than something minor you try to work around. You do not need to eat low carb your entire life, just long enough to restore your insulin sensitivity. You largely got to this point by eating the foods you have your whole life in combination with your lifestyle. I don't see how you're going to gain meaningful traction with the diet outlined in the OP. Snacking all day, eating crackers and fruit. Depending on serving sizes you're also likely in a calorie deficit that's too large - your body will desperately cling to weight and ratchet down your metabolism to compensate.

Two things I'd recommend trying that are easy and should be quick wins: try to shrink the window in which you eat and only eat when necessary. By growing the total time you go without food gradually, you will lower your overall blood insulin level and begin to address the 'wall' your body is building internally. This can be as simple as pushing back breakfast an hour or two, or skipping your snacks, or eating dinner early.

I also wholeheartedly agree with everyone recommending you up your activity level and introduce resistance training to go alongside your walking. Keep a little snack handy in case you feel faint, but otherwise go for it. Resistance training is a good stressor for the body that will help you feel better while also attacking the physiological factors that come with type 2 that are causing weight gain and ultimately your depression.

Logging your food intake and counting the calories is something you've already committed to, which is great. It could provide some answers and some more big wins, depending on what it reveals.

You can do this.
 
OP
OP
fleet

fleet

Member
Jan 2, 2019
644
You should view your Type 2 as a condition (or more bluntly, a type of sickness) that needs to be treated with a certain approach rather than something minor you try to work around. You do not need to eat low carb your entire life, just long enough to restore your insulin sensitivity. You largely got to this point by eating the foods you have your whole life in combination with your lifestyle. I don't see how you're going to gain meaningful traction with the diet outlined in the OP. Snacking all day, eating crackers and fruit. Depending on serving sizes you're also likely in a calorie deficit that's too large - your body will desperately cling to weight and ratchet down your metabolism to compensate.

i appreciate your input but this is the advice of my doctor, which i'm not going to go against: don't do restrictive diets, eat small meals frequently, lower carbs. i "got to this point" by having something similar to an autoimmune disorder, of which we are currently testing for, which is not poor lifestyle choices. some of the lifestyle factors that have worsened my type 2 are things like anxiety and stress, which is why my cortisol levels are off the charts, which effects my hormones (but i'm not a doctor so i don't know the specifics, this is just what my gp has told me)

sorry for getting a little testy. i'm trying very very hard to be healthy at the moment while not comprising my mental health, which is something i struggle with. the implication that i've caused this by being lazy and incompetent with my food choices is a bit insulting. i'm eating fruits, salads, soups, nuts, lean meats and fish. it's not quite kale and tofu but i'm only just starting my journey.
 
Oct 3, 2019
837
Op, the only advice I'll give is not to seek dieting advice from forums, because most of it ends up being BS broscience and useless anecdotes.
 

Onix555

Member
Apr 23, 2019
3,381
UK
Im not a doctor in any form. However I found going down to 2 meals a day was quite helpful, theres so much nutritional value in todays foods that theres no real need for having 5 meals a day.

You do have to keep the T2D in account with regards to sugar intake, however if you're rapidly gaining weight then a lack of sugar probably isnt going to be an issue as long as you plan well.

I hope you can find a nice solution that fits you OP.
 
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