Neil Gaiman just having some fun with the trolls who are angry about Sandman casting.
Seems to have started here...
Which led to this...
And then to this.
Seems to have started here...
Which led to this...
And then to this.
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What ever happened to the high testosterone Neil of old who wrote manly comics for manly men?
- Thread starter DrForester
- Start date
- Comics
Hahahaha. WTF.
They took the wrong IP to complain about "wokeness".
Oh, is this more of that "black women are actually men in drag" bullshit that Michelle Obama got?
You know, I haven't read Sandman in probably a decade. Maybe a little more. I'm probably totally oblivious because as a younger me, probably before I had heard the term, I never put Desire as non-binary. I mean, it makes total sense and I like it.
Honestly, I can't even put into words what I'm trying to convey but I think it just goes to show this is exactly who Neil Gaiman is and these people are insane for saying a younger him would have thought differently.
Honestly, I can't even put into words what I'm trying to convey but I think it just goes to show this is exactly who Neil Gaiman is and these people are insane for saying a younger him would have thought differently.
OP
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Took me about 10 seconds to notice that when I first saw the tweets. Had the same reaction.
So this is what the shit-trolls are pulling now? "Oh, the younger version of you that doesn't exist anymore would agree with me though!"
Way to prove that your argument only makes sense in your own heads...
Way to prove that your argument only makes sense in your own heads...
I actually reread Sandman recently. It is funny. From where I stand, young Neil was a 90s era "woke" writer whose output would be a bit "cringe" today, but which at the time must've been very progressive and subversive.
Seeing chuds lay claim to a culture that was never theirs in their crusade against cultural liberalism is amusing.
Seeing chuds lay claim to a culture that was never theirs in their crusade against cultural liberalism is amusing.
....the corporation is not clear why they can't cast 32 actors as the main character of a tv show?
Imagine being such a fuckstick that you'd use Sandman of all things as an example of testosterone fueled manly comics. Right up there with Morrison's Doom Patrol in traditional masculinity.
yeah these are just dipshits that see woman and yell
they have no clue what they're talking about
Hasn't Death always been (when not faceless/masked) presented as an (to an extent androgynous) female/feminine in Sandman?
I'm confused at what exactly people are mad about - Desire has also, as far back as I can recall, been non-binary in Sandman, because desire applies to (almost) everyone?
I'm confused at what exactly people are mad about - Desire has also, as far back as I can recall, been non-binary in Sandman, because desire applies to (almost) everyone?
Clearly everyone is forgetting how strong and manly Merv Pumpkinhead and Prez are.
As an aside, I think Gaiman implied they're adapting the shorts/interludes too. Does that mean we're actually going to get an adaptation of Prez!? Prez is the best.
As an aside, I think Gaiman implied they're adapting the shorts/interludes too. Does that mean we're actually going to get an adaptation of Prez!? Prez is the best.
LMAO. Imagine having a culture war over Sandman. Sandman. That comic was never yours, CGers. Never ever.
Neil Gaiman on Twitter is a treasure
(Actually I followed him there before ever reading any of his books, but I'm in the process of rectifying that)
(Actually I followed him there before ever reading any of his books, but I'm in the process of rectifying that)
The actress they cast for Death is black, so, uhh, yeah, you can probably imagine.
(But a ton of complaints are that Death's been genderswapped, or that they're casting Desire as nonbinary, which are clearly idiots hopping on an outrage bandwagon without even bothering to google what it is they're complaining about.)
Ah.
I can 'see' the Death casting call being an 'issue' the same way the Yennefer actress for Netflix Witcher was an 'issue', but the Desire thing seems utterly asinine as a 'also this' complaint, lol.
Fucking idiots.
As for progressive all I have to say is while I have nitpicks (rather masculine art that could play into "man in a dress" stereotypes, not being able to go to cuckoo land with the other women because the moon refuses to recognize her based on biology being my biggest gripes)Wanda was one of the few trans characters of the time that didn't make me want to kill myself or someone else, and even with those gripes (which I am sure Neil would probably do different today) still better than a lot of trans rep now especially in mainstream comics.
Fuck these clowns.
As for progressive all I have to say is while I have nitpicks (rather masculine art that could play into "man in a dress" stereotypes, not being able to go to cuckoo land with the other women because the moon refuses to recognize her based on biology being my biggest gripes)Wanda was one of the few trans characters of the time that didn't make me want to kill myself or someone else, and even with those gripes (which I am sure Neil would probably do different today) still better than a lot of trans rep now especially in mainstream comics.
Fuck these clowns.
If it makes you feel better, I am 99% certain these clowns have never even read a single page of The Sandman.
The racist complaints about Death's casting are predictable, if pathetic, but the Desire controversy is baffling. The androgyny is a vital aspect of Desire's existence.
Sandman is great. There's definitely some story points that haven't aged well but it was more because Gaiman was aiming to present progressive ideas and missed the mark (which I'm pretty sure he's been on record saying if he wrote those parts with the knowledge he has now they would've definitely been different). Honestly it's why it's funny that people would even suggest that Sandman was some unpolitical manly comic.
Should be noted that death appears as other ethnicities in the comics, including an African tribe and chinese
Gaiman said in a blog once that he regret some of the choices with wanda, and that was a reference to a particularly TERFy subset of wiccans which idolizes the e moon that he discovered through trans friends in the 80's
Death seeing Wanda as a woman is all you need to know that gaiman said fuck TERFs before it was cool
edit:
link to the blog post which is actually a tumblr post
neil-gaiman.tumblr.com
Gaiman said in a blog once that he regret some of the choices with wanda, and that was a reference to a particularly TERFy subset of wiccans which idolizes the e moon that he discovered through trans friends in the 80's
Death seeing Wanda as a woman is all you need to know that gaiman said fuck TERFs before it was cool
edit:
link to the blog post which is actually a tumblr post
Neil Gaiman
I suspect part of the problem is that people don't read Sandman in historic context. And mostly, they shouldn't need to. It would have seemed ridiculous when I started writing it to think that that...
neil-gaiman.tumblr.com
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OP
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Guy said we are better off without George Floyd. So he probably got suspended for being a super racist POS
The mere idea of someone considering Sandman some sort of hyper-masculine comic.. 😂 And I really don't get the complaints about Desire, as Desire was always androgynous. Death is somewhat different. The Endless can appear as whatever or whoever they want, but the character most people are familiar with is the pale-faced goth girl version of Death (which is also my fave character in the series). Will have to see the series to see how it works out though.
As an added bonus, here's Cinnamon Hadley (RIP), the girl who Death is based on.
As an added bonus, here's Cinnamon Hadley (RIP), the girl who Death is based on.
Neil Gaiman is a literature legend so if anybody can put people in their place with words then it is him.
Yeah, that's why I say I have mixed feelings. And that ultimately even with the problematic stuff it's still one of the better representations out there that made me feel good about myself (especially as at the time not only was most mainstream depictions of trans people horrible, but I was still in my late teens/early twenties and slumming on the street with ultimate toxic masculinity types, would have been a bad scene even if I had been a cis heteronormative type so as a deeply closeted trans person Wanda was still very important to me at the time) and I didn't even need Neil saying it to be super sure he would do things differently.Should be noted that death appears as other ethnicities in the comics, including an African tribe and chinese
Gaiman said in a blog once that he regret some of the choices with wanda, and that was a reference to a particularly TERFy subset of wiccans which idolizes the e moon that he discovered through trans friends in the 80's
Death seeing Wanda as a woman is all you need to know that gaiman said fuck TERFs before it was cool
edit:
link to the blog post which is actually a tumblr post
Neil Gaiman
I suspect part of the problem is that people don't read Sandman in historic context. And mostly, they shouldn't need to. It would have seemed ridiculous when I started writing it to think that that...