Justice League’s Snyder Cut saga reminds us which fans’ voices get heard
The HBO Max release of the fabled "Snyder Cut" happened thanks to a mix of entitlement, harassment, and privilege.
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Vox: Justice League’s Snyder Cut saga reminds us which fans’ voices get heard
- Thread starter Schlorgan
- Start date
www.vox.com
If we drew up a Venn diagram of "fans that kicked up a load of fuss until the Snyder Cut got made" and "fans that kicked up a load of fuss until Rise of Skywalker got made", it'd probably be a perfect circle.
I had actually not considered this, but yeah. Shared disappointment with Lucasfilm for backtracking on The Last Jedi to capitulate to a bunch of shitlords who harassed KMT off the internet and are still calling on Kennedy to be fired.
I wasn't aware that there had been harassment shit going on. I thought the whole campaign for a snyder cut was more of a meme thing lol. the more you know i guess
That was an eye opener with how the article talked about the Snyder Cut in relation to other controversies regarding trying to voice complaints about Bury Your Gays and Hydra Cap.
At its most basic level #ReleaseTheSnyderCut was a bunch of nerds trying to prove there was worth in a commercial product they wanted, but we should think about why their voices were valued so highly, and I don't think it's just because there were really that many of them.
At its most basic level #ReleaseTheSnyderCut was a bunch of nerds trying to prove there was worth in a commercial product they wanted, but we should think about why their voices were valued so highly, and I don't think it's just because there were really that many of them.
There's definitely quite a few, #RestoreTheSnyderVerse had over a million tweets yesterday.
A lot of Snyder fans tend to dismiss the harrasment because in the end, both toxic and non toxic fans got what they wanted.
To be fair those nerds got ignored for a good while before they got they finally got listened to
There was a lot of harassment, actually. Even James Gunn got death threats over the Snyder Cut after he was hired to direct Suicide Squad. It all started back in 2015, I think, when some folks decided that the poor reviews Batman vs Superman got were due to critics who were either paid by Disney to give it low scores or were intentionally trying to sink Snyder's career.
This is the sort of people that got the Snyder Cut made:
"[In 2018] FilmGob [posted] a (now-deleted) anti semitic video content wherein he photoshopped his head onto the body of a Nazi soldier holding a gun to Marvel Studios head Kevin Feige, who is Jewish."
OP
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This isn't about Whedon and Fisher. It's about the segment of the fanbase that engaged in extremely toxic behavior to get this movie released.
Yeah, the entire saga of this cut is riddled with toxic and non-toxic advocates and results. I mean, despite the toxic harassment that occurred, at the end of the day the Snyder Cut has more representation and better development of its minority lead character (hell, an entire actual plotline to watch!), which is ironic given the toxic voices that were part of the push. It's not as if the original cut was some paragon of virtue in either its approach to minority characters or in the behavior of its director and the executives as well.
It was especially bad with women and critics of color.
It's been really frustrating to see people brush that shit off.
doesn't fit the narrative, only way this got made was because of the toxic portions of the fandom apparently (which lets be honest, geek properties in general have some absolute trash fandoms. every one of these enthusiast sites publishes some questionable stuff consistently)
I think Snyder did make a mistake engaging with some of these dickheads though like Grace Randolph. should not have given them the time of day.
yikes
I hear you. I haven't really been following super hero movie talk, but of course I should have realized the fan movement was toxic, because of course it was
There's definitely a lot of truth in this article.
What did the fans get for their toxicity?.
1. Far better and more respectful representation for minority and women characters.
2. Redemption for its creator
3. A far, far superior movie in almost every demonstrable way.
I do not necessarily believe the ends always justify the means, but it worked out extremely well in this case, so I am happy.Fandom almost always exhibits toxic behaviors, and even worse for comic book properties. I never posted any Snyder cut hash tags, pledged money, or anything else, but I was a huge fan of MoS and BvS:UE, so I am completely thrilled passionate people made their voices heard so that this could get made.
Now they can go back to their basements and knock that toxic shit off
What did the fans get for their toxicity?.
1. Far better and more respectful representation for minority and women characters.
2. Redemption for its creator
3. A far, far superior movie in almost every demonstrable way.
I do not necessarily believe the ends always justify the means, but it worked out extremely well in this case, so I am happy.Fandom almost always exhibits toxic behaviors, and even worse for comic book properties. I never posted any Snyder cut hash tags, pledged money, or anything else, but I was a huge fan of MoS and BvS:UE, so I am completely thrilled passionate people made their voices heard so that this could get made.
Now they can go back to their basements and knock that toxic shit off
Ray fisher's mistreatment at the hands of Whedon/WB is literally the only thing that stopped this from being an entirely reactionary 'movement' tbh.
Never liked that the toxic segment of Snyder fans would use minorities and charity as a cover for their actions.
I won't really defend the behavior of the fanbase, but I think saying the release was "for the fans" is an overstatement. That's part of the equation, but the rest of it (marketable characters + new service launch + global pandemic making new production difficult + reusable footage laying around + director willing to work for free on reshoots) is hard to ignore.
It was a monetary decision. The only people whose voices were listened to were the executives who saw potential profit.
It was a monetary decision. The only people whose voices were listened to were the executives who saw potential profit.
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Whedon is a piece of shit
and
Segments of the #ReleaseTheSnyderCut movement are very toxic
Both of these things can be true.
and
Segments of the #ReleaseTheSnyderCut movement are very toxic
Both of these things can be true.
Than that should be brought up in the article. I'll be the first to say that despite being a Snyder fan I find the fanbase insufferable.
but this article and a lot of thinkpieces your seeing about the cut this week mostly feels like sour grapes.
To be fair, the circumstances surrounding the Snyder cut are a little unique and I find it really hard to compare it to other fan movements. Snyder was willing to skip payment for finishing the cut, there was a multi year long (incredibly toxic) fan campaign, and HBO wanted something unique to push HBO Max. Without all three of these the Snyder Cut just never gets released.
I can't think of anything comparable to this situation
I can't think of anything comparable to this situation
Same
But of course all that shit gets completely ignored or downplayed when brought up
You think that's bad?
I don't even want to THINK about the discussion that's going to happen when Ghostbusters: Afterlife finally releases.
It's going to be a shitshow.
People are STILL arguing about AtC, and with that film underperforming, and Sony doing an actual Ghostbusters 3, you could only imagine what die-hard fans of 2016 are thinking.
I mean what will the discussion be if Ghostbusters: Afterlife makes MORE money than AtC? What will the discussion be if Afterlife makes less than AtC?
The discussion around Afterlife is going to be a total shit show.
I don't even want to THINK about the discussion that's going to happen when Ghostbusters: Afterlife finally releases.
It's going to be a shitshow.
People are STILL arguing about AtC, and with that film underperforming, and Sony doing an actual Ghostbusters 3, you could only imagine what die-hard fans of 2016 are thinking.
I mean what will the discussion be if Ghostbusters: Afterlife makes MORE money than AtC? What will the discussion be if Afterlife makes less than AtC?
The discussion around Afterlife is going to be a total shit show.
Every fanbase is toxic. Even marvel, Xbox PlayStation,star wars etc.
A minor vocal shitheds are not representative of entire fanbase.
Honestly never ever saw any of the toxicity(I guess because I never tweeted about it). Which I can say is why I appreciate the article that links to another article that shows some examples.
The Release the Snyder Cut crowd always seemed very stupid and weird. Not toxic or dangerous. I mean, during gamergate I saw all the vicious shit being posted. Same with some of the Comicsgate shit. But with the Snyder Cut I would far and away see way more people complain about the toxicity than any toxicity. It was this weird phenomenon. Don't get me wrong, the guy saying James Gunn should die along with his dog is fucking reprehensible shit. Scrolling through some of those examples is enlightening.
Never going to feel bad for WB and people like Joss and Golf Johns but that doesn't mean the fans can't be gross assholes.
The Release the Snyder Cut crowd always seemed very stupid and weird. Not toxic or dangerous. I mean, during gamergate I saw all the vicious shit being posted. Same with some of the Comicsgate shit. But with the Snyder Cut I would far and away see way more people complain about the toxicity than any toxicity. It was this weird phenomenon. Don't get me wrong, the guy saying James Gunn should die along with his dog is fucking reprehensible shit. Scrolling through some of those examples is enlightening.
Never going to feel bad for WB and people like Joss and Golf Johns but that doesn't mean the fans can't be gross assholes.
No
But pretending that this iteration of the movie doesn't exist solely because of the actions of those same vocal shitheads and trying to spin it as some kind of creative victory isn't a good look.
I think you might be hyping this up a bit too much.
AtC does not have some Snyder-esque large die hard fan base.
No I'm talking about the discussion around Ghostbusters 3 itself.
Love it or hate it, the female cast of AtC got a fucking lot of shit, and the movie ultimately underperformed.
Now there's a new movie coming out that bring back the original cast in the film many people wanted AtC to be, and you couldn't see how some may think that Ghostbusters Afterlife is giving the toxic trolls what they want?
i had no idea there was harrassment involved, but im not surprised cause you throw in anonymity and people just think they can do whatever.
that said I do disagree with the articles notion that the synder cut is a success only because of the harrassment. I don't follow any trash people on twitter and from what i've seen people largely like the movie.
that said I do disagree with the articles notion that the synder cut is a success only because of the harrassment. I don't follow any trash people on twitter and from what i've seen people largely like the movie.
Aja Romano is totally missing the mark here. The answer to why the Snyder cut fandom was "heard" when other vocal fandoms haven't been isn't "Because they were so loud and toxic that Warner Brothers had to cave," it's "Because what they wanted lined up with HBO Max's money-making strategy."
Downplaying toxic behavior from another fandom brouhaha just because Aja Romano likes the other fandom more is also pretty gross:
Downplaying toxic behavior from another fandom brouhaha just because Aja Romano likes the other fandom more is also pretty gross:
Some, absolutely. But I just don't think people in general are that passionate about AtC where it will be some massive thing. Your post definitely implies that it will be a more toxic situation than what we saw with Snyder Cut.
That movie really came out in 2016! Also it had die hard fans? Like who are these 5 people.
I get ya. I probably wasn't communicating clearly.
I think what I'm trying to say is I would expect another article similar to this sometime when Ghostbusters Afterlife comes out that tries to paint Afterlife as some kind of "fanboy reward" after the 2016 AtC shitshow.
I find it complicated because you got this toxic harassment but you also have these positive efforts like charity donations. Not to mention all the stuff going on with Ray Fisher and the cast of the movie themselves being in favor of the Snyder cut. To say that only the toxic fans were "heard" feels wrong.
This article operates wholly off the narrative that WB marketing presents about the Snyder Cut being "for the fans" and only getting made because of their years of outcry/abuse. Instead of it being an opportunistic way to produce content for a fledgling streaming service in the middle of a global pandemic that shut down active Hollywood production. Hence, why all the other demands from this fanbase are being summarily ignored. All the Tweets in the world will not get Henry Cavill recast as Superman or the Ayer Cut released or whatever new bullshit they want. These people are not being listened to. There is irony in this piece talking about how only some voices are being heard and included, while it ignores the minority characters being restored to the film and Ray Fisher's extremely public career-ending sentiment against the theatrical version.
AtC has a small but vocal fanbase who are extremely disappointed that the franchise has moved onto Afterlife/3 instead of trying a GB 2016 sequel.
You honestly think this version would exist without a loud and toxic contingent of nerds directing their ire at a variety of individuals and companies?
User Banned (1 Week): Inflammatory comparison, dismissing harassment
Within any fan base you will find people that try to ruin it for everyone with toxic behavior. It's sad how those that chose these toxic methods can think they are helping anything.
That small vocal minority, of course, doesn't represent an entire fan base.
I see extremism against the release as well. In this thread, no less.
Neither should be tolerated.
That small vocal minority, of course, doesn't represent an entire fan base.
I see extremism against the release as well. In this thread, no less.
Neither should be tolerated.
This is largely where I'm at. Funnily enough, the only toxicity I saw was from ERA lol.
At the end of the day I'm just happy that Ray Fisher and the other actors cut by Whedon/WB got this win.
Trevorrow got taken off of Episode IX in September of 2017. The Last Jedi came out in December of that year. The change of direction happened before the backlash.
I think it did vindicate those assholes, but I think the actual greenlight for the Snyder Cut had little to do with them. Snyder was pushing for it and would forgo a paycheck, WB needed content for MAX, covid was wrecking production schedules, the theatrical cut was a disaster, etc etc
A couple of toxic shitbrains and their rented billboards and hashtags aren't going to jumpstart a likely 9-digit production and marketing budget
A couple of toxic shitbrains and their rented billboards and hashtags aren't going to jumpstart a likely 9-digit production and marketing budget
they may have got the ball rolling initially when the efforts were futile, but that eventually got coopted by a larger community of fans and also ultimately it became a business decision. its now one of the biggest successes of the HBO Max service and in other countries streaming platforms this year. there was an interest in it.
I think its pretty dumb to think that a project with millions of dollars behind it was greenlit by WB because they got harrassed by nerds online. theres more to it than that. I'm not denying that is a factor but the ONLY one, no. and not the biggest reason why this project happened either.