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III-V

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,827

giphy.gif
 

fragamemnon

Member
Nov 30, 2017
6,924
Slamming the CTC as "welfare without work" is a great way to throw stay at home parents under the bus. Of course, that's not the point, the point is dragging up the horrible Reagan era spectres once again.
 

Aaron

I’m seeing double here!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,077
Minneapolis
This is a fair point.

Isn't this just the normal credit they would get at tax time, spread out across the year? So it's not really welfare so much as just providing a useful payment to people they are already going to get, just sooner rather than later? GTFO
Partly - the amount of the tax credit was increased as well, so it is more money than parents could previously claim (I believe 2000 versus 3600 now for dual-parent households?). But you're right in the sense that this is just that same credit being doled out monthly rather than at tax time.

Slamming the CTC as "welfare without work" is a great way to throw stay at home parents under the bus. Of course, that's not the point, the point is dragging up the horrible Reagan era spectres once again.
Isn't it cool how American society is supposed to encourage the good ol' days of "man goes to work while wife stays at home and takes care of the kids" but we also shame stay-at-home mothers (and fathers!) who get assistance from the government to help ease the burden of relying on a single source of income?

I fucking hate American conservatism.
 

Sho_Nuff82

Member
Nov 14, 2017
18,515
Is this code? Would I understand this if I followed Q?

Just Trump talking out of both sides of his mouth. Everyone he invites to the WH is only famous and liked because of him, he only hires the best people and media are haters for second guessing his choices, but also he only hires people out of spite and actually they're all morons who would be on the street without him, like a dog.

He's got the wit of Superboy "Stupidest Boy Dead" Prime.
 

SSF1991

Member
Jun 19, 2018
3,263
I wouldnt lump the entire GOP into that comment. Some definitely, but there are multiple GOP politicians that have pushed vaccines etc, including McConnell.

It just doesn't matter when the base of the GOP really only cares what the crazies say and those ones are not pushing it.

I suppose.

But when I see 95% of the party pushing against it and the remaining 5% not really fighting back much, it's really hard to not feel like it's a party-wide problem.
 

SSF1991

Member
Jun 19, 2018
3,263
That didn't take long. *eye roll*



Manchin swatted away questions about the filibuster after the hour-long meeting, arguing it "doesn't need" an exception to Senate rules that require 60 votes to close debate, and telling reporters to "forget the filibuster."

No one's going to forget about the filibuster as long as you continue to openly worship it and piss off Dem voters, asshole.
 

Casa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,671
Tens of millions of Fox News watching rednecks are going to be bitching about the "welfare" child tax credits while they themselves are gladly accepting them.
 

Darkstar0155

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,171
I suppose.

But when I see 95% of the party pushing against it and the remaining 5% not really fighting back much, it's really hard to not feel like it's a party-wide problem.
Ide say it's more like 80% of republicans have pushed vaccines.

It's just you remember the 20% because that's what causes an emotional reaction and humans remember things better when there is an emotional reaction attached.

The vast majority of republican governors have pushed people to get vaccinated, mcconnell has, former Republican presidents, etc etc. But then you have your crazies and they are what get the attention (and are boosted by the idiots like tucker/fox AND more centrist media outlets for calling them crazy).
 

Deleted member 17092

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
20,360
Tens of millions of Fox News watching rednecks are going to be bitching about the "welfare" child tax credits while they themselves are gladly accepting them.

Yep, they were already saying it for the $1400 stimulus.

"I don't need these government handouts blah blah blah"

Maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to add some kind of opt out option for people if they really don't want to accept them.
 

GoldenFlex

Alt Account
Banned
May 7, 2021
2,900

That's awesome, it's buried in the story but:

While Sanders said that the PRO Act would be included in the reconciliation package, the process requires the Senate parliamentarian to approve which budget-related aspects can be included in the final legislation, which could mean that the final package would be pared down compared to the original version.

still hope it passes
 

wesker83

Member
Dec 3, 2018
1,181
Lindsay Graham's kink has to be humiliation.


Weren't these same people bitching to high heaven that Coke and MLB are ruining this country because they took a stance against the ridiculous LBGTQ discrimination and voting restriction laws states like Georgia were trying to pass like a few weeks ago?
 

CrabDust

Member
Nov 16, 2017
1,257
That didn't take long. *eye roll*





No one's going to forget about the filibuster as long as you continue to openly worship it and piss off Dem voters, asshole.

Makes my head spin:
Other moderates have echoed Manchin's misgivings about filibuster reform. Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) told Forbes last month she doesn't believe the filibuster needs to be altered because democracy is not in jeopardy – though her office said in a statement on Thursday that Congress "must find a path forward" on election reform because "the future of our democracy is at stake."
 

GoldenFlex

Alt Account
Banned
May 7, 2021
2,900
It's more likely she's just a shitty politician and CA deserves better.
Agreed, attributing dementia and whatever else to politicians just comes off weird to me. Similar to Hanlon's razor, don't attribute malice to general stupidity, don't attribute dementia or whatever other ageist descriptors to bad political differences.
 

Manmademan

Election Thread Watcher
Member
Aug 6, 2018
16,183
She's a public servant with immense power and influence. We should absolutely be concerned with something like that.

Right. In case those posting missed the articles from earlier, this is how bad Feinstein is:

But many others familiar with Feinstein's situation describe her as seriously struggling, and say it has been evident for several years. Speaking on background, and with respect for her accomplished career, they say her short-term memory has grown so poor that she often forgets she has been briefed on a topic, accusing her staff of failing to do so just after they have. They describe Feinstein as forgetting what she has said and getting upset when she can't keep up. One aide to another senator described what he called a "Kabuki" meeting in which Feinstein's staff tried to steer her through a proposed piece of legislation that she protested was "just words" which "make no sense." Feinstein's staff has said that sometimes she seems herself, and other times unreachable. "The staff is in such a bad position," a former Senate aide who still has business in Congress said. "They have to defend her and make her seem normal.

Schumer had several serious and painful talks with Feinstein, according to well-informed sources. Overtures were also made to enlist the help of Feinstein's husband, Richard Blum. Feinstein, meanwhile, was surprised and upset by Schumer's message. He had wanted her to step aside on her own terms, with her dignity intact, but "she wasn't really all that aware of the extent to which she'd been compromised," one well-informed Senate source told me. "It was hurtful and distressing to have it pointed out." Compounding the problem, Feinstein seemed to forget about the conversations soon after they talked, so Schumer had to confront her again. "It was like Groundhog Day, but with the pain fresh each time." Anyone who has tried to take the car keys away from an elderly relative knows how hard it can be, he said, adding that, in this case, "It wasn't just about a car. It was about the U.S. Senate."

www.newyorker.com

Dianne Feinstein’s Missteps Raise a Painful Age Question Among Senate Democrats

Older lawmakers’ foibles and infirmities are coming under new scrutiny, violating an unspoken culture of complicity and coverup.

This was from the New Yorker in December. Feinstein often gets lost mid-conversation, doesn't remember what she's doing moment to moment, and is confused and bewildered by legislative text. The comparison to "trying to take the car keys from an elderly relative" is an apt one, because confronting someone in decline like that often just leads them to lash out and get even MORE angry and confused. She's not quite "Strom Thurmond" bad yet, but it's not a stretch to say that Feinstein likely doesn't have the capacity to understand how bad the GOP has gotten because her memory is shot to hell.

It is not surprising at all to get inconsistent, bewildering messaging from her or her office because Feinstein can't remember what's she's doing or saying from moment to moment.
 

lostconst

Member
Oct 27, 2017
634
Can we not do what? Mention that Feinstein has very serious issues with cognitive decline? This isn't speculation, man. It's sad, but not surprising. And I caught your edit re: "conservative commentator." nice.
She's a public servant with immense power and influence. We should absolutely be concerned with something like that.

This is the same nonsense Fox and Trump love spewing every time Biden so much as opens his mouth.


Social media was less polite. A conservative Web site soon posted a clip of the humiliating moment on YouTube, under the headline "Senator Feinstein just asked the same question twice and didn't realize she did it,"

Some former Feinstein aides insist that rumors of her cognitive decline have been exaggerated, and that video clips taken out of context can make almost anyone look foolish. They also bridle at singling out her condition, because declining male senators, including Strom Thurmond, of South Carolina, and Robert Byrd, of West Virginia, were widely known by the end of their careers to be non-compos mentis.

www.newyorker.com

Dianne Feinstein’s Missteps Raise a Painful Age Question Among Senate Democrats

Older lawmakers’ foibles and infirmities are coming under new scrutiny, violating an unspoken culture of complicity and coverup.
You want to call her a shitty politician, be my guest. She is. But let's not make uneducated and unsubstantiated claims about her health.
 

Warhawk4Ever

Banned
Jun 23, 2021
2,514
This is the same nonsense Fox and Trump love spewing every time Biden so much as opens his mouth.




www.newyorker.com

Dianne Feinstein’s Missteps Raise a Painful Age Question Among Senate Democrats

Older lawmakers’ foibles and infirmities are coming under new scrutiny, violating an unspoken culture of complicity and coverup.
You want to call her a shitty politician, be my guest. She is. But let's not make uneducated and unsubstantiated claims about her health.

except Biden is sharp and she isnt. Like stop the false equivalency
 

Manmademan

Election Thread Watcher
Member
Aug 6, 2018
16,183
This is the same nonsense Fox and Trump love spewing every time Biden so much as opens his mouth.




www.newyorker.com

Dianne Feinstein’s Missteps Raise a Painful Age Question Among Senate Democrats

Older lawmakers’ foibles and infirmities are coming under new scrutiny, violating an unspoken culture of complicity and coverup.
You want to call her a shitty politician, be my guest. She is. But let's not make uneducated and unsubstantiated claims about her health.

The New Yorker is absolutely not an uneducated or unsubstantiated publication, and comparing it to conservative commentators on fox news is ridiculous.

except Biden is sharp and she isnt. Like stop the false equivalency

Exactly. This is not "both sides do it" bullshit. One of these was credible reporting from an extremely reputable source.

edit: Different reporters at politico reported the same issues months earlier in September:

Feinstein sometimes gets confused by reporters' questions, or will offer different answers to the same question depending on where or when she's asked. Her appearance is frail. And Feinstein's genteel demeanor, which seems like it belongs to a bygone Senate era, can lead to trouble with an increasingly hard-line Democratic base uninterested in collegiality or bipartisan platitudes.

Feinstein relies heavily on her ever-present staff to deal with any issues, frequently turning to them for help in responding to inquiries. Feinstein had to be coaxed into wearing a mask around the Senate during the early days of the pandemic, despite being part of the most vulnerable age groups for the disease. She's only made two floor speeches in the last nine months, her last being in early July, although she remains active in committee hearings.

www.politico.com

Democrats worry Feinstein can’t handle Supreme Court battle

Colleagues fear the oldest senator may struggle to lead Democrats on the Judiciary Committee.

This isn't speculation- Feinstein gets confused and will often give different answers to the same question depending on when it's asked. She's heavily reliant on her staffers for help when responding to inquiries. She rarely gives floor speeches. Her confusion and decline are known issues.
 
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Warhawk4Ever

Banned
Jun 23, 2021
2,514
The New Yorker is absolutely not an uneducated or unsubstantiated publication, and comparing it to conservative commentators on fox news is ridiculous.



Exactly. This is not "both sides do it" bullshit. One of these was credible reporting from an extremely reputable source.

edit: Different reporters at politico reported the same issues months earlier in September:





www.politico.com

Democrats worry Feinstein can’t handle Supreme Court battle

Colleagues fear the oldest senator may struggle to lead Democrats on the Judiciary Committee.

This isn't speculation. Her confusion and decline are known issues.

schumer literally forced her off the committee chairmainship. Like it isnt wrong to question her mental capacity .
 

Manmademan

Election Thread Watcher
Member
Aug 6, 2018
16,183
schumer literally forced her off the committee chairmainship. Like it isnt wrong to question her mental capacity .

Exactly. And I'm not saying she's an amazing senator or defending her record. What I'm saying is that it is not surprising that her office gave two contradictory statements to the issue, because she is obviously in serious mental decline and this is typical when that happens.

Manchin and Sinema are intentionally blocking the filibuster due to political gamesmanship and/or general assholery. Feinstein is something else.
 

shiba5

I shed
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
15,865
Tens of millions of Fox News watching rednecks are going to be bitching about the "welfare" child tax credits while they themselves are gladly accepting them.

My brother is doing just that. Won't send the money back though. The money came from the "wrong tribe" so he can't be happy.
 

lostconst

Member
Oct 27, 2017
634
Exactly. And I'm not saying she's an amazing senator or defending her record. What I'm saying is that it is not surprising that her office gave two contradictory statements to the issue, because she is obviously in serious mental decline and this is typical when that happens.

Manchin and Sinema are intentionally blocking the filibuster due to political gamesmanship and/or general assholery. Feinstein is something else.

I mean, fair enough. I won't argue her cognitive decline. But do I think that means we should say she has dementia, a medical condition which neither of your articles lists for obvious reasons? No.
 

Manmademan

Election Thread Watcher
Member
Aug 6, 2018
16,183
I mean, fair enough. I won't argue her cognitive decline. But do I think that means we should say she has dementia, a medical condition which neither of your articles lists for obvious reasons? No.

Yes, I do think it's clear she has dementia when Shumer has attempted to have her resign because she lacks capacity to remember what she is doing from moment to moment.

The New Yorker isn't going to give a medical diagnosis because that's not what they do- but it is obviously clear that is what's going on. Dementia is literally a simple term that implies severe cognitive decline which is absolutely, positively where Feinstein is right now.

edit: from the CDC-

Dementia is not a specific disease but is rather a general term for the impaired ability to remember, think, or make decisions that interferes with doing everyday activities. Alzheimer's disease is the most common type of dementia. Though dementia mostly affects older adults, it is not a part of normal aging.

What Is Dementia? | CDC

Dementia is not a specific disease but is rather a general term for the declining cognitive abilities of remembering, thinking, or making decisions that interferes with doing everyday activities.

"Impaired ability to remember, think, or make decisions that interfere with everyday activities" is well documented on the part of feinstein to the point where Leadership feels she should retire and has forced her off committee.

Are we going to continue this? or are you done here.
 
Oct 25, 2017
16,738
For the past 4 years not only did this forum but a lot of people questioned the mental capacity of Trump.

I think it's fair we do the same for Dianne. She's 88 and HAS been making inconsistent statements. There's a reason people want her to step down and it's not jsut because she's a "moderate".
 

lostconst

Member
Oct 27, 2017
634
Yes, I do think it's clear she has dementia when Shumer has attempted to have her resign because she lacks capacity to remember what she is doing from moment to moment.

The New Yorker isn't going to give a medical diagnosis because that's not what they do- but it is obviously clear that is what's going on. Dementia is literally a simple term that implies severe cognitive decline which is absolutely, positively where Feinstein is right now.

edit: from the CDC-



What Is Dementia? | CDC

Dementia is not a specific disease but is rather a general term for the declining cognitive abilities of remembering, thinking, or making decisions that interferes with doing everyday activities.

"Impaired ability to remember, think, or make decisions that interfere with everyday activities" is well documented on the part of feinstein to the point where Leadership feels she should retire and has forced her off committee.

Are we going to continue this? or are you done here.

From the CDC:

How is dementia diagnosed?
A healthcare provider can perform tests on attention, memory, problem solving and other cognitive abilities to see if there is cause for concern. A physical exam, blood tests, and brain scans like a CT or MRI can help determine an underlying cause.

www.alzheimers.org.uk

Donald Trump, Joe Biden and dementia: Why not to diagnose from a distance

In recent years, there has been a lot of speculation that Donald Trump and Joe Biden may have dementia or some form of mental health condition. However, this kind of speculation is usually wrong, is unethical and stigmatises people living with dementia and mental health conditions.

From an Alzheimer's center:

If somebody is showing signs of confusion, for instance, there are lots of reasons why this could be. Infections, changes in medication, disturbed sleep, depression or stress are a few possible factors.

There are several different types of dementiatoo, all of which are impossible to diagnose reliably without a person's consent or cooperation. A professional diagnosis will include a personal 'history', as well as physical exams, cognitive tests and a scan of the brain if needed.

(…)


It's one thing to dislike the things a politician says or does, but to attribute Donald Trump's behaviours to dementia is both hurtful and unhelpful.

This language reinforces the myth that people with dementia are 'crazy' or incapable of making sound decisions.

It also supports the idea that people living with dementia are unfit for employment, which may not be the case.

We want a society in which people with dementia feel understood, valued and able to contribute to their community. But to get there we need to stop making assumptions and recognise the many people living well with dementia.

(…)

This is why we must be extra careful when applying the term dementia. People with the condition need a professional diagnosis so they can access the support they need. A weakened understanding of dementia could put people off seeking medical help.

Some first hand experience which might help:

www.orlandosentinel.com

My dad has dementia. Stop hurling it like a political insult | Commentary

The inauguration of any president is, obviously, momentous. But as Joe Biden prepared to take his oath of office last Wednesday, Alexis Haridopolos — a former Florida senate president’s…
 

Deleted member 4346

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,976
This is the same nonsense Fox and Trump love spewing every time Biden so much as opens his mouth.




www.newyorker.com

Dianne Feinstein’s Missteps Raise a Painful Age Question Among Senate Democrats

Older lawmakers’ foibles and infirmities are coming under new scrutiny, violating an unspoken culture of complicity and coverup.
You want to call her a shitty politician, be my guest. She is. But let's not make uneducated and unsubstantiated claims about her health.

I don't have any strong leanings one way or the other but I feel like there should be a consistency across the board with this. It should be either ok to question the mental capacity and fitness of all politicians who show signs of age-related decline, or it should not be ok to make armchair diagnoses at all.
 

Deleted member 8257

Oct 26, 2017
24,586
Dianne Feinstein physically hugged Lindsey Graham after he stole Democrats' Supreme Court seat for ACB. I dont really care if she has dementia or not. She is incredibly out of step of where the base is and for that reason alone she needs to gtfo. She also said she is not in favor of removing the filibuster.

Cry as you might about Manchin, but at the very least you can see the ~why~ of manchinisms. Feinstein has zero reasons to be an idiot.
 

Wraith

Member
Jun 28, 2018
8,892
www.tampabay.com

Matt Gaetz hired legal firm used by Jeffrey Epstein and El Chapo, campaign report shows

Gaetz’s campaign has spent $135,000 on legal expenses in the past year as his troubles have mounted.
With his legal troubles still looming over him, U.S. Rep. Matt Gaetz's campaign paid $25,000 last month to a law firm that represented convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein, Mexican drug lord El Chapo and former mobsters, according to his most recent campaign finance report.

In all, Gaetz's campaign paid $50,000 in legal expenses in June, pushing the Florida Republican's total campaign legal costs in the past year to over $135,000.

The mounting bills coincide with the reported timeline of an ongoing federal investigation into sex trafficking that involves Gaetz and former Seminole County Tax Collector Joel Greenberg. According to the New York Times, investigators are exploring payments made to women in exchange for sex, a trip to the Bahamas and whether Gaetz had sex with an underage girl.
 
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