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US PoliEra 2020 |OT 3| "I think he's learned his lesson" says The Concerned Immoderate Darling Collins.

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Deleted member 278

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Oct 25, 2017
1,994
Hours Left said:
The idea that Warren should endorse Bernie after all the crap his campaign and supporters have put her through is absolutely wild IMO.

She doesn't own Bernie anything, and Bernie doesn't own progressive politics.
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She has literally no shot at the nomination, she did worse than Pete in every state including fucking South Carolina.

The moderates have coalesced around a single guy. This race has become Bernie vs Biden. If she actually cares about progressive values, the next step is pretty fucking clear.

I say this as someone who adores the woman, donating quite a bit to her and have spent 6 hours every week for the last two months volunteering for her campaign. And she's said it herself, progressives only have one shot. We have to get behind Bernie.
 
Armaros

Armaros

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,901
Dopus said:
What's with this "detective" nonsense. It's in this same thread. And I'm not "continuing"anything. You and others quoting me are doing that.

As for mischaracterising the post, I was not. It's why they were banned.

I had stopped responding, so please do the same.
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You know what you are trying do.
 
RastaMentality

RastaMentality

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,136
Warren was easily my favorite politician of the 2010s, but this shit is all political machinery. If you want progressive ideals enacted, there really isn't much of a choice.
 

Deleted member 31817

Nov 7, 2017
30,876
Speaking as someone who's first choice was Warren up until very recently I see a few paths for her rn

1. She realizes that not all of her voters are going to go to Bernie as a 2nd choice and being a progressive she's staying in to take votes away from Biden/secure delegates that she can use to boost Bernie at the convention. (This would be great)

2. She realizes that not all of her voters are going to go to Bernie as a 2nd choice and being a progressive she's staying in to take votes away from Biden/secure delegates that she can use to boost Bernie at the convention however she fails to get a significant number of delegates due to not clearing the viability in several states and instead just hurts Bernie. (This would suck)

3. She wants to be president and thinks she'll be a compromise candidate if neither Biden or Sanders gets a majority. (This would be a GE disaster unless Sanders and Biden are like in a complete 50:50 tie and they both decide on Warren)

4. She wants to be President and somehow thinks she can muster up the most delegates either through a plurality or majority. (She's smart enough where I seriously doubt this is the case).

5. She somehow has abandoned progressive politics and is staying in to siphon votes away from Bernie and/or will endorse/pledge delegates to Biden. (Also doubtful)

Idk any I'm missing
 
ItWasMeantToBe19

ItWasMeantToBe19

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
20,440
Just feel not great about Joe ending up being the choice instead of Duckworth or Booker or... some other center-left Dem who won't die in office.

Biden's age is catastrophic (as it is for Bernie as well).
 
Chaos Legion

Chaos Legion

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 30, 2017
16,924
ChucklesB said:
Nah, Utah is notoriously liberal with their Dem primary stuff, which makes sense considering a majority of the votes I assume come from cities.
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ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Utah's Dems have a large portion of their supporters coming from the college educated white atheist demo which is easily the most extremely left leaning demo in the US.
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Hmm. I never would have guessed. I wonderHow many other states my assumptions are wildly off about, lol. Thanks!
 
ItWasMeantToBe19

ItWasMeantToBe19

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
20,440
Clowns said:
I think it was PPP that said if you removed Mormons from Utah it'd be one of the most Democratic states in the country.
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If you removed Mormons from Utah, there would probably be fewer people who saw the disturbing effects of theocracy and rejected religion all together to become an atheist and anti-theist though.

(Just to be an asshole and bring up interesting Utah dynamics).
 
ChucklesB

ChucklesB

Member
Nov 4, 2017
1,490
Psychoward said:
Speaking as someone who's first choice was Warren up until very recently I see a few paths for her rn

1. She realizes that not all of her voters are going to go to Bernie as a 2nd choice and being a progressive she's staying in to take votes away from Biden/secure delegates that she can use to boost Bernie at the convention. (This would be great)

2. She realizes that not all of her voters are going to go to Bernie as a 2nd choice and being a progressive she's staying in to take votes away from Biden/secure delegates that she can use to boost Bernie at the convention however she fails to get a significant number of delegates due to not clearing the viability in several states and instead just hurts Bernie. (This would suck)

3. She wants to be president and thinks she'll be a compromise candidate if neither Biden or Sanders gets a majority. (This would be a GE disaster unless Sanders and Biden are like in a complete 50:50 tie and they both decide on Warren)

4. She wants to be President and somehow thinks she can muster up the most delegates either through a plurality or majority. (She's smart enough where I seriously doubt this is the case).

5. She somehow has abandoned progressive politics and is staying in to siphon votes away from Bernie and/or will endorse/pledge delegates to Biden. (Also doubtful)

Idk any I'm missing
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I don't think you're really missing any, but I still am not sure if she would outright endorse anyone or not. The pragmatic nature makes me think she's going to leave her options open after tomorrow to see what's there.
 
xenocide

xenocide

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Oct 25, 2017
5,307
Vermont
Why does it matter if Warren drops? Bernie is going to energize the youth vote and be carried to his rightful place in the White House by millions of formally unengaged working class voters. He doesn't need my help for that I'm told.
 

Deleted member 31817

Nov 7, 2017
30,876
xenocide said:
Why does it matter if Warren drops? Bernie is going to energize the youth vote and be carried to his rightful place in the White House by millions of formally unengaged working class voters. He doesn't need my help for that I'm told.
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You do know you're not in OT rn right
 
xenocide

xenocide

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,307
Vermont
Psychoward said:
You do know you're not in OT rn right
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ChucklesB said:
The shitposting isn't necessary mate.
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Lost track of which window I had opened but it hits on a very valid issue—Sanders campaign set out from day one promising he would energize previously uninvolved voters and her ran his campaign accordingly. If he's struggling at this point it means there was a fundamental flaw in his campaign strategy and he didn't spend the last year targeting the voters he needed to win.
 
KtotheRoc

KtotheRoc

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
56,679
Psychoward said:
Speaking as someone who's first choice was Warren up until very recently I see a few paths for her rn

1. She realizes that not all of her voters are going to go to Bernie as a 2nd choice and being a progressive she's staying in to take votes away from Biden/secure delegates that she can use to boost Bernie at the convention. (This would be great)

2. She realizes that not all of her voters are going to go to Bernie as a 2nd choice and being a progressive she's staying in to take votes away from Biden/secure delegates that she can use to boost Bernie at the convention however she fails to get a significant number of delegates due to not clearing the viability in several states and instead just hurts Bernie. (This would suck)

3. She wants to be president and thinks she'll be a compromise candidate if neither Biden or Sanders gets a majority. (This would be a GE disaster unless Sanders and Biden are like in a complete 50:50 tie and they both decide on Warren)

4. She wants to be President and somehow thinks she can muster up the most delegates either through a plurality or majority. (She's smart enough where I seriously doubt this is the case).

5. She somehow has abandoned progressive politics and is staying in to siphon votes away from Bernie and/or will endorse/pledge delegates to Biden. (Also doubtful)

Idk any I'm missing
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You are missing something, but it's very dark, and I don't think people want to talk about the possibility for either Biden or Sanders right now.
 
Clowns

Clowns

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,876
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
If you removed Mormons from Utah, there would probably be fewer people who saw the disturbing effects of theocracy and rejected religion all together to become an atheist and anti-theist though.

(Just to be an asshole and bring up interesting Utah dynamics).
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it's too late at night to be this pedantic about my word choices damnit
 
fragamemnon

fragamemnon

Member
Nov 30, 2017
6,858
Warm take: Warren and Bernie are substantially different in ideology and worldview, as much if not more than Warren and Biden.
 
Kirblar

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
xenocide said:
Lost track of which window I had opened but it hits on a very valid issue—Sanders campaign set out from day one promising he would energize previously uninvolved voters and her ran his campaign accordingly. If he's struggling at this point it means there was a fundamental flaw in his campaign strategy and he didn't spend the last year targeting the voters he needed to win.
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Basically the same issue as with Corbyn. They're subscribing to a bullshit theory of politics because they prefer to lose following a plan that sounds good to them and appeals to their ideological biases rather than actually acknowledge reality.
 
xenocide

xenocide

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Oct 25, 2017
5,307
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Kirblar said:
Basically the same issue as with Corbyn. They're subscribing to a bullshit theory of politics because they prefer to lose following a plan that sounds good to them and appeals to their ideological biases rather than actually acknowledge reality.
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I've said it about a million times over the last few years: If you're banking on the youth vote you're going to be disappointed 100% of the time. Sanders is now in the precarious situation where if that youth vote doesn't show up, a lot of these close races between him and Biden are going to tip in Biden's favor.
 
Heromanz

Heromanz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,202
Armaros said:
You know what you are trying do.
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What he's trying to do is to make sure people know how rasict that post was and for some reason that racist post got a week's band what's going on here during that black community thread outreach no less. no wonder me and my fellow African-American posters feel alienated and left out in this fourm we had people defending post like that in moderation failing to punish post like that
 
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cartoon_soldier

cartoon_soldier

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,638
The World
Problem with Bernie is when he is talking about how everything is rigged his supporters will believe 2020 is rigged too if he loses the nomination even though DNC went out of the the way to accommodate him. And no matter how much he wants to support Biden or whoever the nominee is a certain group of these supporters will just keep drumming the rigged mantra. Hell, even if Bernie wins they will go it was rigged but Bernie movement overcame it.

And then you have their shit belief that they will "expand the electorate" which neither do we know is really possible or whether it even helps Dems. Non-voters lean Dems yes...but in states that matter they like Trump.

And then



So, wait it's better to take the support of an anti-vaxxer than a billionaire?

And shit like this



She means the billionaire AA voters in South Carolina? Is Jim Clyburn a billionaire?

You know who the primary is rigged against? People of Color. By allowing white as shit states to go first people like Kamala and Cory basically made no headway and had to drop out.

Doesn't matter as I continue to believe Trump is favorite for re-election with either Biden or Bernie as the nominee.
 
BADMAN

BADMAN

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,887
TheHunter said:
Ideology. Progressive.

Worldview. Pragmatic bridgebuilder vs non compromising idealist.
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I uh, disagree? Progressive is a buzzword at this point. Hillary was progressive, Biden is progressive, Bernie and Warren are progressive. It basically doesn't mean anything anymore.

If you want to boil down ideologies, Bernie is an old socialist that believes there needs to be a political revolution in the country to save us from fascism. Warren is a financial wonk who thinks the economy needs to be recalibrated to work better for the middle class. That's a huge simplification for both candidates but close enough.
 
fragamemnon

fragamemnon

Member
Nov 30, 2017
6,858
TheHunter said:
Ideology? No.

Worldview...definitely.
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see, I feel that Bernie finds capitalism immoral but necessary for a modern society like ours to effectively work. Sort of 'this sucks, but let's make something out of it'

Warren OTOH, I feel loves capitalism as a driver for innovation and prosperity, but hates the excesses of unchecked regulatory capture and rent seeking behaviors. Her populism is reactionary for the time we are in, in her mind a necessary play to save capitalism from itself. If things were more normal, she'd be competing with Jared Polis and others in the neoliberal shill of the year bracket. She believes in open borders, trade agreements, etc., and only rejects market based reforms when the market is just too far gone in her eyes to save ( M4A).
 

Deleted member 278

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,994
xenocide said:
Why does it matter if Warren drops? Bernie is going to energize the youth vote and be carried to his rightful place in the White House by millions of formally unengaged working class voters. He doesn't need my help for that I'm told.
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Yes clearly Sanders not being able to overcome a three person race where one of the candidates in the race is a spoiler for his side is a fair test of his theory of the case. Come the fuck on dude.
 
OP
OP
TheHunter

TheHunter

Bold Bur3n Wrangler
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
25,774
BADMAN said:
I uh, disagree? Progressive is a buzzword at this point. Hillary was progressive, Biden is progressive, Bernie and Warren are progressive. It basically doesn't mean anything anymore.

If you want to boil down ideologies, Bernie is an old socialist that believes there needs to be a political revolution in the country to save us from fascism. Warren is a financial wonk who thinks the economy needs to be recalibrated to work better for the middle class. That's a huge simplification for both candidates but close enough.
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No they are/were not.
 
xenocide

xenocide

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Oct 25, 2017
5,307
Vermont
Muzy said:
Yes clearly Sanders not being able to overcome a three person race where one of the candidates in the race is a spoiler for his side is a fair test of his theory of the case. Come the fuck on dude.
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Youth vote is not measurably higher than past years. His strategy isn't working. If there were more young people voting en masse he'd be winning every state by double digits.
 
BADMAN

BADMAN

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,887
TheHunter said:
They can claim whatever they want.

Warren, AoC, Markey, Sanders are progressives.
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Sure, by your definition. My point is that the word has been used and abused to the point where it doesn't really describe anything outside of "they have policies that help people".

I also wouldn't lump Warren and Markey into the same group as AOC and Sanders. It's a very different kind of "left".
 
ChucklesB

ChucklesB

Member
Nov 4, 2017
1,490
KtotheRoc said:
Bloomberg?
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Bloomberg is like a synonym for Coronavirus in a way I suppose.

Also I don't think I'm in enough ResetERA cliqs since I don't follow any of this banned/unbanned stuff very well when it crops up.

Muzy said:
Yes clearly Sanders not being able to overcome a three person race where one of the candidates in the race is a spoiler for his side is a fair test of his theory of the case. Come the fuck on dude.
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How dare you forget Bloombito.
 
BADMAN

BADMAN

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,887
User Banned (2 Weeks): Trolling and Hostility Over Multiple Posts; Prior Bans for the Same
Arm Van Dam said:
Do you not understand what a ban appeal is?
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Hey, sorry for implying that. I was being extra since rilakuma is a dick. I hope that when Vector Prime comes back you all shun him for his nazi shit though. That shit was fucked up.
 
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