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RailWays

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
15,678

Yeah, the mental health section and the rural communities one mentioning "access" seem odd to me. These absolutely should be covered under m4A. Leaving private insurers around for mental health just sounds like paving the future for exploitation down the line.

Mental health is absolutely just as important as physical.
 

OmniOne

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,063
In the end Medicare for All is going to be a National Public Option. Over time it will have more and more folks choosing it.
 

Aaron

I’m seeing double here!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,077
Minneapolis
At this point i think a public option is the only thing thats going to fly with voters but we will see how that perception alters over time

The amount of propaganda and scare tactics that will be put out by private health care industry and advocates will hit a fever pitch i imagine and I expect many moderates and conservatives to line up with that message
Strong public option being branded as Medicare for All* (*Who Want It) seems like the easiest route to take, politically. Set it up as a back door to single payer that slowly strangles the insurance industry. If it compels them to make changes for the better, that's great, if not, fuck 'em.
 

OmniOne

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,063
https://prospect.org/article/warren-plan-would-close-tax-loophole-joe-biden-uses

Earlier today I reported on Elizabeth Warren's plan to expand Social Security benefits by the widest margin in a half-century. There's a tiny provision in the plan that could loom large in the presidential primary and the campaign of the Democratic front-runner, Joe Biden.

Warren vows to close the so-called "Gingrich-Edwards" loophole, a way for the rich to avoid Social Security and Medicare contributions. Self-employed individuals can set up S corporations to pass through earned income from consulting, book advances, speaking fees, or whatever else. The Trump administration just made S corporations more lucrative by adding large deductions for pass-through income.

If the individual classifies money taken out of the S corporation as an investor distribution rather than a salary, that money avoids payroll taxes for Social Security and Medicare. It gets taxed as a corporate profit (at a lower overall rate) rather than income. Newt Gingrich and John Edwards, the namesakes of the loophole, both used this to funnel millions of dollars into their hands without paying payroll taxes.

Warren's call to close the Gingrich-Edwards loophole would move more money into the Social Security system, as well as Medicare. Unlike other parts of the plan, a president could accomplish this through IRS regulatory guidelines, without needing approval from Congress.

And that could be bad news for a guy named Joe Biden.

As Ryan Grim at The Intercept flagged yesterday, Biden uses the Gingrich-Edwards loophole. He and his wife have set up S corporations in Delaware, which is notorious for its allowances for shell corporations and financial concealment.

According to The Wall Street Journal, the Bidens have reported over $13 million in profits the past two years through the S corporation, while only taking out $750,000 as salary. That leaves over $12 million, made through book deals and speaking fees, ineligible for payroll taxes, particularly for Medicare (those taxes are uncapped, as opposed to Social Security taxes, which are only collected on the first $132,900 in income). The money is also untraceable, a nice side benefit. As a result, we don't know who paid the Bidens for all the speeches, or how much he was paid.

The Journal also reported that Warren, Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, and Bernie Sanders did not take advantage of this loophole for their income made through books and books and speeches.
 

Royalan

I can say DEI; you can't.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
11,966
Everyone who came out the woodwork criticizing Harris' (good, if not "far enough") healthcare plan better keep that same energy for the half-baked russet potato Warren just dropped.
 

RailWays

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
15,678
Yeah, Warren's healthcare "plan" ain't it.
Don't bother calling yourself for m4A if you're going to half-bake it like this. The exclusion of mental health coverage honestly baffles me.
 

Wilsongt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,507
Warren going light on healthcare to allow new HHS agency head Bernie Sanders to handle the details.
 

rjinaz

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
28,414
Phoenix
I'm expecting Kamala to bring the fire tonight. Her only chance is to leave an impression, say something that will be spread all over social media. Same could be said for pretty much anybody not in the top 3. If they don't land something tonight they have to figure they are pretty much done.
 

B-Dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
General Manager
Oct 25, 2017
32,782
Yeah, Warren's healthcare "plan" ain't it.
Don't bother calling yourself for m4A if you're going to half-bake it like this. The exclusion of mental health coverage honestly baffles me.
MfA is whatever the hell people want it to be. Everyone's got a different definition of it.

But yeah, this plan ain't that great
 

shinra-bansho

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,964
I think that twitter person is really reading more into the passage on mental health than is warranted.

Honestly this isn't a plan, it's really just:
  1. Yes I'm for M4A, stop asking me for a healthcare plan
  2. Here's some miscellaneous healthcare legislation I sponsored before and why it's good.

Don't bother calling yourself for m4A if you're going to half-bake it like this.
M4A doesn't actually mean anything in particular, in so far as people support M4A.
 
Oct 27, 2017
17,973
This "plan" is super-super-light. Starting the page off with an email solicitation isn't helping, either.

That said, I don't think people realize how far behind mental health practice is than physical health - in terms of standardization, best practices, and availability. The psychological practitioner community has pleaded with the public for help multiple times. And, If HHS isn't currently equipped to deal with "mental health for all" then it could potentially be a non-starter.

As it is, people seeking immediate mental health support (like a place to say overnight to prevent acting on impulses to say, abuse substances) often find their access blocked because of capacity concerns (can't "find" a bed for you) or delays in paperwork processing. Making coverage accessible, by law, is necessary no matter who is ultimately providing the coverage.
 

divination

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,002
Usually she releases a medium post when a new plan gets rolled out. Is there one for this? Looking at the website, it looks more like a grab bag of healthcare related thing she supports rather than an overarching policy like the Social Security plan released earlier today.
 

RailWays

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
15,678
Usually she releases a medium post when a new plan gets rolled out. Is there one for this? Looking at the website, it looks more like a grab bag of healthcare related thing she supports rather than an overarching policy like the Social Security plan released earlier today.
No, she hasn't released a Medium post for it.
 

Chaos Legion

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 30, 2017
16,924
I'm expecting Kamala to bring the fire tonight. Her only chance is to leave an impression, say something that will be spread all over social media. Same could be said for pretty much anybody not in the top 3. If they don't land something tonight they have to figure they are pretty much done.
She's free of Tulsi!
 

shiba5

I shed
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
15,791
You hate to see it.



Trump campaign struggles to deal with Qanon flooding Trump rallies with Q merch.
 

shinra-bansho

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,964
Oh, related. New KFF polling...
9347-Figure-6.png


9347-Figure-8.png


9347-Figure-11.png

 

divination

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,002
No, she hasn't released a Medium post for it.

Hmm. Makes me think this isnt actually "a plan" like other other ones and she has yet to release the main proposal. I'm signed up for her text messages which usually sends out a link whoever a new plan is released and I havent received one yet.

Could be wrong tho, so we'll see!
 

spx54

Member
Mar 21, 2019
3,273
the health care plan warren came out doesn't nearly reek of poll tested bullshit as much as Harris' does. def skeptical of her leaving private insurance in the drivers seat in terms of mental health

on the other hand, her Social Security expansion plan she came out with is VERY strong
 

adam387

Member
Nov 27, 2017
5,215
People upset about the mental health aspect part of this....uh, did you read what was posted? It's referencing a bill she's sponsored that's separate from M4A. It does not say that physical and mental health are in anyway separate from each other. Bernie has cosponsored her mental healthcare bill. The read from that twitter person is horrible and they should feel bad for not reading correctly.
 

OmniOne

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,063
It looks like she's migrated all of her Medium posts to the website now and will be using the website going forward.

Was probably because it outsourced traffic early on before she started raising gobs of money.

Just scroll down.
 

dlauv

Prophet of Truth - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,513
People upset about the mental health aspect part of this....uh, did you read what was posted? It's referencing a bill she's sponsored that's separate from M4A. It does not say that physical and mental health are in anyway separate from each other. Bernie has cosponsored her mental healthcare bill. The read from that twitter person is horrible and they should feel bad for not reading correctly.
"In addition to the right to physical health care, we must prioritize affordable, high-quality mental health services."
 

TheAbsolution

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,391
Atlanta, GA
the health care plan warren came out doesn't nearly reek of poll tested bullshit as much as Harris' does. def skeptical of her leaving private insurance in the drivers seat in terms of mental health

on the other hand, her Social Security expansion plan she came out with is VERY strong
Like others have said, I don't think it's an actual plan. It seems to just be a page of policies that she supports or legislation that she's co-signed onto. So not a plan.
 

Aaron

I’m seeing double here!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,077
Minneapolis
Separating mental and physical health is complete bullshit and really upsets me. I'll have to rethink my full-fledged support of her.
I don't think her plan is to distinguish the two, it strikes me more as "I support single-payer, but also here's a bill that would make mental healthcare better under private industry."

It's basically Warren hedging her bets. Unless I'm mistaken, Bernie's M4A bill would include mental healthcare, but if you can't get that done (and realistically single-payer isn't happening anytime soon), that doesn't mean you can't do something on mental healthcare, or prescription drug prices, or whatever else needs attention in our existing system.

If anything this makes me support Warren even more. She's not going to just come out and say "single-payer is impossible, here's a bunch of other shit," but that's what I'm interring here. There's a plan in case M4A goes nowhere. She herself authored a bill recently that just ("just") fixes Obamacare, with the expressed intent to deal with the glaring problems in the system right now (either due to problems writing the original bill that stemmed from catering to Republicans and industry, unforeseen technical glitches or deliberate damage done to the bill by Republicans since its passage) while broader reform is hashed out in Congress.

Here's a write-up of that ACA 2.0 bill:

http://acasignups.net/18/03/21/majo...e-their-own-aca-20-billand-look-whos-board-it

Even Sanders co-sponsored it. It's a slam dunk, immediate fix that could probably happen within the first 100 days.
 

adam387

Member
Nov 27, 2017
5,215
"In addition to the right to physical health care, we must prioritize affordable, high-quality mental health services."
Yes...because you still have to control costs for mental healthcare the same as physical healthcare with M4A. Cost doesn't magically go away. In fact, mental health services would probably be one of the first services to be cut under a poorly funded M4A because reimbursement rates are so low. This bill is about forcing insurers (including Medicare/Medicaid/private health insurers) to maintain parity for mental health and physical health services. It creates a portal for patients to get access to their information. There's nothing in this bill (again a bill that Bernie Sanders supports!) that indicates mental health is somehow going to be separate from physical health.
 

shinra-bansho

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,964
Medicare Part B covers some level of mental health outpatient services?
So even a Medicare buy-in... covers mental health services?
Do the various other Medicare 4 whatever plans indicate what they mean when they say they will cover mental health (if they say they will)?

Like the Sanders one basically covers everything under the sun except nose jobs, and everything is free.
 

metalslimer

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,566
Honestly's she's stuck between a rock and hard place. SHe's knows Bernie's bill is complete bullshit and it is not happening anytime soon but doesn't want the stain of that attached to her general campaign should she win.
 

Royalan

I can say DEI; you can't.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
11,966
I'm expecting Kamala to bring the fire tonight. Her only chance is to leave an impression, say something that will be spread all over social media. Same could be said for pretty much anybody not in the top 3. If they don't land something tonight they have to figure they are pretty much done.

She really should.

I finished reading her Criminal Justice (Public Safety, as she calls it) plan yesterday. And, without hyperbole, it is easily the most comprehensive plan on the subject that I've read from any candidate since I've followed politics. It's ambitious, even for someone with her background.

And with tonight's debate taking place at an HBCU in Houston? She better go in. Because you're simply not really talking criminal justice reform if you're not talking about it like she is, and it may have been a mistake for her to downplay what is really her crown issue because of all the "Copmala" shit.
 

Diablos

has a title.
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,595
So ... Justin Fairfax has filed a $400 million lawsuit against CBS because they aired interviews with the two women accusing him of sexual assault:


All of this turmoil in VA is some bullshit. Can't think that it bodes well for the party even taking into account its huge shift towards Democrats since 2008.
People need to take care of their own problems and resign instead of dragging the rest of the party in the state into the mud with them. But that's what the optics are currently.
 

Linkura

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,943
Warren is cancelled. Jill Stein 2020. Write in Bernie or Gravel.
Tammy/Tammy
That said, I don't think people realize how far behind mental health practice is than physical health - in terms of standardization, best practices, and availability. The psychological practitioner community has pleaded with the public for help multiple times. And, If HHS isn't currently equipped to deal with "mental health for all" then it could potentially be a non-starter.

As it is, people seeking immediate mental health support (like a place to say overnight to prevent acting on impulses to say, abuse substances) often find their access blocked because of capacity concerns (can't "find" a bed for you) or delays in paperwork processing. Making coverage accessible, by law, is necessary no matter who is ultimately providing the coverage.
I'm well aware of how shitty mental health care is in this country. Which makes it all the more baffling to me. She needs to clarify her position asap.
 
Oct 25, 2017
17,537
She really should.

I finished reading her Criminal Justice (Public Safety, as she calls it) plan yesterday. And, without hyperbole, it is easily the most comprehensive plan on the subject that I've read from any candidate since I've followed politics. It's ambitious, even for someone with her background.

And with tonight's debate taking place at an HBCU in Houston? She better go in. Because you're simply not really talking criminal justice reform if you're not talking about it like she is, and it may have been a mistake for her to downplay what is really her crown issue because of all the "Copmala" shit.
Looking at the OT Debate thread, they are already jerking off to that Copmala photoshop again.

I don't even like her anymore (the R word controversy really turned me against her) but like that shit is so fucking offputting and gross.
 

dlauv

Prophet of Truth - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,513
Yes...because you still have to control costs for mental healthcare the same as physical healthcare with M4A. Cost doesn't magically go away. In fact, mental health services would probably be one of the first services to be cut under a poorly funded M4A because reimbursement rates are so low. This bill is about forcing insurers (including Medicare/Medicaid/private health insurers) to maintain parity for mental health and physical health services. It creates a portal for patients to get access to their information. There's nothing in this bill (again a bill that Bernie Sanders supports!) that indicates mental health is somehow going to be separate from physical health.
The costs wouldn't go away for physical either. By using the language of "a right," the sentence is aimed towards the user experience. What you can expect then is that mental health coverage isn't completely covered by her plan as physical is, like you say. I don't think the user was off the mark.

Many candidates have supported many plans that are seemingly at odds with their lofty visions, i.e. the bill mentioned in her plan. That's because they were pragmatic bills not made for presidential campaigns. Heaven forbid I'm saying Bernie's plan is better or more realistic, but I don't see the point in camouflaging in M4All while releasing something that would contradict it. She would have done better to not release anything at all and stay the course.
 
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OmniOne

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,063
I hope Harris tells us we don't want a food fight but food on the table, and then proceed to throw a plate at someone.
 
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