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US PoliERA 2019 |OT2| #PresidentPelosi
- Thread starter Midnight Jon
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Your reaction is a microcosm of why Democrats don't like Bernie, why should we? If he doesn't respect us or the party itself why should we respect him? If he doesn't want to get the perks he knows where the door is, the party's already given him more than he deserves and he still shits on them at every opportunity. But he won't leave because he desperately needs the party to be politically relevant or he goes back to being an obscure politician from Vermont.
That's true. Amusingly, AOC didn't get a single criticism for being interviewed on Maddow that day about the Oval Office address because she has more politically savviness the Bernie ever did. Because she knew not to cross that line.
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They don't call him Teflon Don for nothing. Mixing metaphors, but his friends will jump on the grenade(s) and he'll act like he didn't know what was going on.
Reagan got away scot-free by leaning on dementia, and Trump will lean on being a buffoon.
Teflon Don never had a million different federal investigations out his ass either. We'll see how it unfolds.
Who among us hasn't had an inauguration committee involved in a conspiracy against the United States and innumerably instances of fraud and graft? Witch hunt doesn't even begin to describe it.
you know that is 100% where this is headed. If Mueller doesn't charge any Americans for conspiring with Russia to influence the election, we'll never hear the end of it. I mean, sure, there was all kinds of shady shit going down, campaign finance violations, his entire inaugural committee was a giant grift/bribery scheme, but I thought this was supposed to be about ~COLLUSION~! Checkmate, libs.
He got away with it before he was president due to nobody looking too deeply and those did were underfunded and the laws had few teeth. After being POTUS, he is getting away right now because is POTUS. This may not work once he leaves office.
Mueller's speciality is putting away "Telfon Don's"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Gotti
Yep. If I remember correctly Biden apologized after it came out (the day his 2008 campaign launched) and then apologized again to Obama during a primary debate for it months later when the moderator brought it up and Obama publicly accepted the apology.
Bernie never would have gotten anywhere with party loyalty because his policy positions that actually impact the lives of people go against those in charge of the party. He needs to gain attention through other means in order to push those policies, and has been successful with that strategy.
There's litterally no path to victory for him with people that care more about decorum than the real world effects of healthcare policy designed around corporate influence.
His policy positions don't get anywhere because until '16 he was fine being a nobody with no political influence (imagine the changes he'd have made had done this decades ago!), he's well known for being a jerk to his allies and he's not good at compromising while leaves him with nothing too often because politics is all about compromise. We'll never know if he had gotten anywhere with party loyalty because he never had it to begin with, maybe if he did he might have accomplished more like everybody else in the party. Strange how Warren hasn't got this problem, isn't it? Despite the fact she's a very progressive politician. His success has been in the influential sense, and it's only recent, he has not altered how the party structures itself or pushed very progressive legislation backed by his influence in the media into law. That requires a lot more allies in the House and people who are wonks working on his behalf in congress.
That's not mutually exclusive. While being a firebrand can be a plus, if that's all he's got it's no wonder he's been so incompetent at getting things done where it mattered. He loses nothing by showing decorum, in fact he gains a lot more - being an asshole has severe drawbacks to getting people to work to the bone to help you. Not everyone is going to do that like the Vermont Democratic Party, who view him unto a god and he still shits on them from afar because reasons.
There is no path for him because he made sure there wasn't one to begin with at his own hand. There were plenty available to him through his career and now, but he continually self destructs because he refuses to respect people and organisations he supposedly belongs to. Team work is a foreign concept to the man.
$5000 his family depends to start over with? Every year? I imagine he can't budget worth a damn and would be in dire straights even if he properly did his withholding and wasn't overpaying that much each year.
This is my story except I'm a decent human being so wouldn't vote for Trump. First time I'm owing federal. Biggest tax bill I've gotten so far. Going to be a lot of people pissed. Wish tax time came around Election Day.
Yup, same situation for me. The withholding calculator on irs.gov was not accurate unless you made exactly the same amount as the year before.
That's what happens when you pass tax cuts via reconciliation with zero notice.
I mean, I believe the tax bill already polls pretty badly, so for people to start actually seeing tangible bad results from it just gives Pelosi and the House more ammo to pass "show bills" for progressive tax reform and get the GOP on the record as not wanting to fix what they've done to the middle class.
Bernie has worked his way into dem leadership but he still has outsider status with a lot of people. I would say this is a good thing and moves like this play well to those who dislike the dem party establishment, by giving a show of "independence". Figures like this are important going forward for pushing progressive policy, given we need a broad coaliton. Bernie signal boosted the Abrams State of the Union and i doubt will be taking away anyone from the event who was interested.
I remember going to that site where you could compare tax plans between Hillary and Trump and Hillary's gave a better return. Maybe these folks should have actually done their homework as opposed to voting with their feelings.
Does it actually anger people that aren't already Bernie haters? Like, where do you see this outside of yourselves?
People threw a fit over the last time he did this (Oval Office response) — did it actually do any harm like they said it would? Did he weaken dems by amplifying the same message to his audience, many of which probably didn't see Pelosi/Schumer?
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His wife and his daughter's hands are in this particular honeypot. Trump delegates like any good mob boss.
The investigations never started with the intent to nail Trump, but to investigate foreign interference in the election. That everyone involved in the campaign seems to up to their ears in corruption and continually lies about it reflects poorly on the president even if he does squeak through.
This is a double edged sword, which doesn't always pay off. It hinders his relationships with his colleagues, gives him more obstacles to getting laws he wants passed, and maintains a conflict between his group and everyone else's. There is a time to sit down and get to work with the group but if fails to do that all he's doing is posturing not among the changes they want. Too many are more interested in simply spiting the Man rather than the change they talk about, which hurts everybody.
Progressives policy moving forward and having a broad coalition only counts if he actually works with the group, as it is too many in the coalition (including Bernie himself) don't want to be part of it but want all the perks of the membership and apathetic to hostile to everybody else. Bernie can signal boost Abrams without angering the party. Its not like his reputation is going to be helped by that, its another addition of Bernie putting himself first rather than the group's agenda which will boost his own by working together.
What hurts is that since his failures in moving the movement forward won't be reflected on Bernie as it should be, it'll be on the party itself. Which he continues to weaponise because all that matters is to him is virtue signalling, not passing bills through congress which suit his agenda.
This is a minor issue, but it's a symptom of a large problem with how Bernie acts. This is just Bernie being Bernie, which is an asshole to everybody else. Antics like this are how we got there in the first place, not all of us disliked him at first. But he drove us away once it became visible what he acts like as a politician. There are negative consequences to that when you pointlessly alienate allies, and for what? What does Bernie gain for angering us, with this or other things? Does he hate us and the party so much?
As always with Bernie, it's his lack of concern to healing wounds and bringing people outside his circle closer - instead he's like a Sith. You're with him or an enemy. The majority of the party are enemies to him, and he prefers it this to being friendly allies, in contrast to progressives like Warren. Who we issues with (like her DNA test) but overall we're not enemies to her because the party has the audacity to have an "establishment." The very thing he relies on to be remain relevant. When someone only attacks their allies, rather than making fields, they will enemies because why would anyone choose to be a friend to someone who will attack them like they're not any better than Republicans? This isn't a sudden change, either, Bernie's cultivated this both with voters blocs post-'16 and the party itself for decades. We'd be fools to let our guard down at this stage.
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This argument doesn't make any sense at all. If progressive policies are failing to pass because Bernie is rude to other senators and that causes them to vote against those policies, the backlash for that should rightly fall on those senators. They weren't elected to have people be polite to them, they were elected to pass policies. If I knew for a fact that my senator was refusing to vote for legislation I supported because of a personal slight I would immediately ask for them to be primaried. Wouldn't you?
I dont know how much shmoozing is going to get people to help you pass policy. It seems shaming and popularity is much more effective given how people jumped on sanders m4a bill. Most politicians only care about being re-elected and money this state of the union aint going to change much. Also the movement not moving forward is more on the party, they shouldnt have to be dragged to the left by Sanders but they are. In what world would sanders be at fault for the party not adopting popular progressive policies.
I mean, you didn't really answer — you just reiterated that you don't like him.
Dude, they're people not robots. This is why it's vital for politicians to have allies, rather than enemies. If progressive policies fail that's on Bernie, they're his policies not his colleagues. If his voters want those policies to pass congress they should look to him to do the job he was voted in for, if he's unable to do that job properly find another horse who won't sabotage your agenda by being a jerk.
What excuse does Bernie have for being a jerk giving colleagues grief so they develop personal slights? I haven't heard him having any medical issues related to that, it's simply because he's just a jerk. For decades. If my senator gave reason for this about Bernie I'd want someone to primary Bernie with someone she who can get my progressive policies made without self destructing my agenda because he's unable to interact with people without making them angry by being a jerk.
Where's the accountability for Bernie? If any other politician did this to him would you be ok with it? Why does Bernie get a pass for being a jerk, when his behaviour can be the one thing stopping the legislation pass in the first place?
There's tonnes of it. They live and work together for months at a time, become friends, are in the same social circles. They make deals for a living. Popularity outside congress is only half the picture, the rest is in congress itself. Without the latter the former is useless, as yet Bernie's bills haven't passed and may take months or years. It's a slow process, but it's a process and it's not all sexy and intriguing. Every politician cares about being elected again, including Bernie. Those who don't tend to retire early, see Joe Crowley. Change is slow, which is why its crucial progressive politicians don't become their worst enemies at getting their agenda made though congress, which Bernie is infamous for doing. He can have all the popularity in the world but if the politicians he needs votes for like his ideas but don't want to deal with the man himself they're ignore his bill and make their own with their own allies. Politics is a team sport, it's not solitary. Gotta get the votes to do anything, and that requires being able to form relationships not make everybody want to be in any other room but his.
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Same fucking boat here. My taxes turned upside down by about 3 grand. Owe 300 or so . First time I've had to pay the IRS.
Why would you hold the guy screaming at people to help him put out the fire responsible when they choose to do nothing cause they feel some type of way.
Edit: Bernies human too. Hes going to feel some type of way about people who perpetuate the violence of a broken capitalist system. Whose justified in their anger.
Because he's not screaming at them for help he's insulting them to their face and peeing on the carpet. People don't like that, even if they agree with him on many subjects.
He is entitled to being angry, when it becomes an issue with him at work and getting his agenda into action then it becomes his problem to solve, and not every problem is solved with a stick.
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They're people with jobs. Those jobs involve passing progressive policy. If they can't do those jobs because their human frailties keep getting in the way, maybe they should be replaced by robots!
Actually Bernie's behavior doesn't have any votes in the Senate. Other Senators do, and they're personally responsible for their choices. "I chose not to vote for this bill I would otherwise support because I was personally offended" is always a narcissistic dodge and the kind of rhetoric I associate with the Republican Party. It's about a hop, skip and jump from saying you oppose Medicare for All to own the libs.
Problem is most of them don't and you wouldnt see politicians like Booker working with Pharma companies only to change his tune after Bernie smashed him for it. Also Bernie doing his own state of the union is not some slap in the face to the dem party, when there were multiple in previous years. How about we hold the dick heads pushing against progressive policies accountable first and foremost.
Bernie is not their boss, Schumer is. Bernie is not the arbitrator for progressive policy, and if he was he'd be terrible at doing it. If Bernie wants progressive policy with his vision passed it's his job to sell them on his proposals and get the votes to pass the Senate, if he can't do that he's failed. I'm not saying it's easy, I'm saying it'd help if he weren't a jerk about doing that. There's nothing sacred about being the jerk in the work place. Primary them all you like, we'll still get to this place because in the end this is about Bernie - not them.
When is Bernie responsible for his own choices? You're right that this does apply to everyone but we're simply discussing reactions to Bernie's personality, which come into whatever he does in the Senate. Bernie neither owns what standards are for progressives or progressive legislation, and if he does feel that way maybe he shouldn't alienate people who vote on his bills? If he wants those bills to pass he needs those votes, it's his responsibility to get them. Other politicians will walk away and do their own progressive bills, they may not be the same as Bernie's but they will help the cause and have a greater chance at passing since they get allies to vote for them. They don't owe him anything, he hasn't earned that right. This is why it's important to choose your battles and generally not be a jerk in your work place - something Bernie never learnt.
The irony being how Bernie acts is exactly what your last sentence entails. He'll destroy his own bills by being a jerk to own the libs. That's incredibly difficult to fulfil an agenda with that a politician whose personality is their weakness. Leaders unite, they don't scatter allies.
I'm not defending politicians like Booker, it's the ones who should be natural allies to his causes. They're just going about it separately because who wants to work with Bernie? Like I said upthread the SOTU is a symptom of a bigger problem - people won't remember that next month, but they might remember that Bernie isn't a team player. It would be so much easier to do that without someone like Bernie leading the change.
No one has clarified whether their taxes actually went up or whether they merely withheld less than expected and therefore got a smaller refund or owed. Of course most people don't know the difference anyway and think a big refund is good, but that fact was always going to cause a huge problem with public perception of this tax bill.
Still dreading doing my own taxes though
Still dreading doing my own taxes though
My mother is amused/annoyed that she owes federal taxes for the first time in decades on the first full calendar year she was retired, lol.
There's nobody to primary, because I don't actually believe any senators are dumb enough to make their vote choices based on their personal irritation with Bernie. You'll notice a whole lot of senators have signed on to his bills recently! But the fact that your argument describes nonexistent senators only doesn't make it not a stupid argument. It is, actually, a big part of what makes it so stupid.
When he takes votes and stakes out policy positions, just like every other politician. If the other senators don't like him personally they can key his car and penny his office. Just don't take it out on the American people.
Okay. Great? As long as we get the policies, what do I care who wrote the bills?
My taxes have yet to clear and they're a bit weird this year as I'm dealing with a couple 1099s courtesy of my father's (long overdue) estate. I've no idea what to anticipate with a very modest IRA and 401k coming through.
But, I'm a bit pissed that even though I got my requisite 2% raise (hurray academia at the adjunct level, if even, since I'm staff rather than faculty), my take-home pay went down per hour as of the new year.
But, I'm a bit pissed that even though I got my requisite 2% raise (hurray academia at the adjunct level, if even, since I'm staff rather than faculty), my take-home pay went down per hour as of the new year.
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