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UK: Sir Keir Starmer is the new Labour Party leader, replacing Jeremy Corbyn
- Thread starter Deleted member 16516
- Start date
I'm all for having female leadership, but a vagina didn't help those two pigs be better human beings.
Yeah this is why the ignore button exists. Which is fine, you don't necessarily have to debate people every time similar issues pop up.
I think all you can say though is there is talent and competence in the Labour party when it happens to be people who are women. Just because the Conservatives gave opportunities to two women who were both incompetent and destroyed lives, doesn't mean that has to reflect on every women who might want to be a leader. I mean, look at the amount of incompetent men who have ran countries and wrecked them, and not many people ever try to say "Well, that should be us being extra careful to elect a man".
You can't criticise Starmer for being born a man, but understandably Labour voters will keep wondering why a woman hasn't a chance the longer it might remain the case the Labour party remains the only party in the UK that hasn't seen that opportunity arise.
It seems to be more a case of doesn't like the SNP and as a result of that amalgamates everything I say to be, what, SNP propaganda? Sad if that is the case because progressive politics doesn't hinge on a single party, or shouldn't, and I've gone on record multiple times saying one of the reasons I support Scottish Independence is I would like to see more (credible) choice in Scotland.
One party political countries for very long periods of times aren't necessarily ever a good thing, but if it's in response to trying to escape a constant right-wing nutcase party on the opposite end of things, what are you going to do?
Heck, that's also why I support proportional representation, because it means the likes of the Greens actually have some importance in Scottish politics.
The avatar I rock right now is supposed to be for banter. It's lifted from a Daily Mail or Telegraph piece I think it was, which was mocking Sturgeon. I don't have Nicola Sturgeon posters on the walls in my home.
If it's not all of that, then I presume it's just the usual anger that fellow leftists can and may be critical of the direction of the Labour party. What people have to remember though, is when you get used to and/or complacent in a country that is voting for a party that closely resembled Corbyn's manifesto, you aren't going to suddenly turn on that. Some Labour voters obviously see the SNP as a threat as they remind them of Corbyn's vision of Labour, or they might be annoyed Scotland isn't still returning 40~55 Labour MPs like we used to. For 50+ years in a row or something.
Understandable from a Labour member point of view, but what are you going to do? It might sometimes be worthwhile looking at why Scotland is how it is right now rather than seeing it as a threat to Labour being elected in England.
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Am I the only person who liked Ed? I liked his policies (he's an environmentalist) and yes his photos were funny and he was bad at public speaking but I always thought his heart was in the right place.
Ed was likeable, just had the competence argument thrown at him and the press eviscerated him. Anything would have been better than Cameron though, then airlifting us into May/Boris.
I don't think Miliband would have destroyed the country, at worst maybe just not done much radical either way.
Well, Cameron then Theresa May (cringe) then Boris. It was the unholy trifecta.
He was actively trying to block Murdoch taking over Sky, so at least he tried to petition against that. The expenses scandal revealed him as being one of the "saints" through the process as well. I think the poor guy was ridiculed too much. Shame the guy couldn't present himself better to the public, not like Labour would have won anyway.
Miliband was as middle of the road as they come, nothing seemingly terrible about the man, and some optimism he might actually have done a decent job. Or at least enabled competent people around him to actually work away at improving the country. A leader is allowed to delegate, just as long as they don't delegate to say, people like Priti Patel.
Where he failed is where everyone potentially decent is going to fail in the political landscape that is the current UK. Unless you are going to seem patriotic as fuck on the front of tough borders and more that flirts with hard-right views and be seen as a maverick, quirky (in specific ways) or fit the role of Eton boy, you're almost unelectable.
The belief is Starmer manages to tick some of the electability boxes the Tories love to flirt with, and that might be true, but he's still going to face relentless media smearing and have the public told he isn't as patriotic and for Britain as Boris.
An issue with the current day "For Britain" belief coming from the Tories is that it's smoke and mirrors. One nation conservatism comes with a million * that will continue to point out if you're in the wrong class, are foreign or such, you're not in the club.
I think Starmer can repeat first attempt Corbyn, where it might be the Tories not getting a majority, but I remain completely unconvinced Conservative Britain is going to quickly be changed. Labour should be more sustainable without Corbyn, but all the same issues will be back to rear their heads when we discuss the British electorate and press.
The Conservatives have dominated most of the years besides the Blair era.
That temporary UKIP rise, smh.
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Amen to that (and to clarify, that isn't what I was saying when I quoted). But you know, maybe it is time we be extra careful electing men!! - Trump, Boris, Putin etc, etc.
As much as that is true, in principle (careful about men), the underlying current is more Conservative/Right-Wing politics becoming what it represents on an almost global scale. There is literally evil women in the Conservative party too. May herself was a disgraceful home secretary who contributed directly to loss of life.
Right-wing populism across the globe is largely following similar trends where some arguments about "fiscal responsibility" from Conservatism back in the day are wolves in sheeps clothing now. Especially given many countries, like ours, is in trillions of debt as it is and austerity has done nothing other than to make the poorest, poorer and the richest, richer.
Economics is not a topic you crash on YouTube in a weekend, so genuine ignorance from most of the population is to be expected. What is horrific is when powerful people get into positions where they knowingly abuse and exploit the ignorant/vulnerable whilst telling them they have their economic interests in mind.
UK Conservatives 101. Continually get some of the most vulnerable voting for them, whilst twisting knives in their backs.
My comment about them not picking the handsome Miliband was facetious, but I do wonder how David would have fared vs. Cameron, and the butterfly effect it would have had on Corbyn, Brexit et al.
My distinct memory of Ed was he was a the epitome of robotic "canned response" politician and he was kind of goofy looking and spoke funny to boot. The funny thing is, since stepping down, becoming a radio personality and actually being able to show his personality, he became very likeable after the fact.
My distinct memory of Ed was he was a the epitome of robotic "canned response" politician and he was kind of goofy looking and spoke funny to boot. The funny thing is, since stepping down, becoming a radio personality and actually being able to show his personality, he became very likeable after the fact.
Lot of fuss on twitter over this one...people saying it's only cause he's northern he gets called an idiot and that he's a Cambridge grad.
Personally I think he's always come across as very condescending and unlikeable in the media.
I still don't know what David Miliband has ever done for people to think he was a winner, i can't think of anything besides acting like a dick during the Brown years.
Burgon is a top lad, sad to see him go. Ran the best campaign in both the Deputy and PM races too.
What makes you say that?
What makes you say that?
The amount of people preaching there was nothing wrong with the Labour Party under Corbyn while people like Burgon personified them during the election cycle clearly defined how clueless most people weighing in on politics during that time were. It's a shame we've only returned to a sense of sanity now that it will probably matter the least. The tories have the perfect playbook of "well we spent a lot on unprecedented measures so now we must cut back!" narratives to field while Labour have to prove they're more competent than a "war time" government in "peace time", which is no easy feat.
There's only a few hard core Corbyn supporters in the UK politics thread, most are Labour but even people like me on the left of the party have plenty of issues with how things have been handled, then again half the PLP refusing to do their fucking duty doesn't help.
I only ducked my head in after the election and it was such a shitshow it definitely seemed like people needed a good 3 months of getting Corbynmania out of their systems, so that probably checks out. I've had people arguing with me to this day that my stance of "Corbyn was unelectable" is incorrect, despite history proving me correct not once, but twice, and such people still wanted him to lead the party? People at least seem to have taken RLB's obvious defeat with a bit more grace.
I'm just sad that the Labour Party has had to shed so much talent over the last five years as they were driven from the party by cultists and incompetence. I'm sure there are many that have have qualms with Tom Watson, but I liked the lad, and the bizarre attempt to delete him just before the party conference was a peak point of Momentum Must Be Stopped.
I can't think of anything positive that Tom Watson did in the past 5 years apart from Tom learning about diet coke.
I think Corbyn could have been electable if the party didn't immediately start stabbing itself in the face, and the 'moderates' didn't create a huge void that had to be filled by inexperienced and some middling people. He should have left after the shit-coup, but the coup shouldn't have happened and they should have let his term end naturally.
i'm a bit sick of the cult nonsense, it's the same party that chose Blair, Corbyn and Starmer, a lot of us didn't like the arrogance of the Reeves, and Chuka's and their entitled belief that only they should lead and everyone else has to lump it. Hopefully Starmer sticks to trying to bring everyone along, sadly i don't think the Blairite types are going to stop being idiots.
Corbyn proved Corbyn is unelectable, people are just really upset at the consequences they feel that tells them
a) The country they live in will never take an opportunity at a humane manifesto any time soon, aka, the greater good argument because no, Corbyn wasn't going to lead to mass loss of life if he got a term. Whether he was an "amazing guy" or not, the country voted for Boris Johnson and his literally comically evil cronies due to "fear" Corbyn was going to do untold damage to their minimum wage salaries or something. Or allow in 65 million immigrants to steal Poundland jobs.
or
b) A fear on how much the Labour party, as a collective, might have to compromise to get elected when it comes to policy and "working across the aisle". Aka the American Sonic Cycle, where every Democrat has to move closer to the Republicans under the guise it will stimulate the population to stop voting for unhinged right-wing populists. Lets not forgot Labour released a red "Control Immigration" mug
Diane Abbott: Labour's 'controls on immigration' mugs are shameful
Labour MP boils with anger over mugs being sold on party’s online store, and questions election promise to limit immigration in first place
www.theguardian.com
Corbynistas, Twitter mad socialists, crybabies unhappy at the state of left-wing politics being eroded and so on are hardly the greatest evil in the world. Most are just desperate, struggling or have a bit "too much passion" for how they'd like to see the world operate. If you scratch under the rhetoric, what do you often find? People with hearts who actually care about the most vulnerable. What a terrible thing.
Once some people start to spend more time being mad about "angry leftists" on the internet, or calling Resetera a "far-left shithole all these other forums watch", one has to start questioning just how mad they get at literal sociopaths in Government?
Sure, hopefully the actual communist agitators or marxists in the Labour support ranks maybe simmer down a bit now, but there is still far bigger fish to fry. There always was. But something something far-left Communism is on the rise and leftists were mean in some Resetera topics when pushing for *checks notes*, humane policy, democratic socialism and a move away from damaging right-wing populism.
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Shadow Cabinet:
pretty good list, he's kept it balanced as he said he would, always nice to see Ed back.
basically turfing out pretty much everyone that was out of their depth in the last shadow cabinet and keeping all the decent ones so far. encouraging. Not sure I would have picked Nandy for shadow foreign, though she'll make light work of Raab anyway. And Jess Phillips should have been given a position to prove she's not all talk. a few people from the blair years on the bench too if needed.
And Ed, nice
And Ed, nice
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Jess Philips should be absolutely nowhere near any prominent role unless you want to suppress minority votes. She's pretty much the Labour version of Jo Swinson.
I think Starmer knows what he's doing not putting Philips in.
Here's the thing about Kier. When he talks, he seems authoritative. I think that's a really good start.
It's not pandering to have a leader who seems put together and professional. Honestly, I think he's got a really good chance.
It's not pandering to have a leader who seems put together and professional. Honestly, I think he's got a really good chance.
I will never get why people hate her. She clearly WON"T suppress minority votes as she has consistently won her ethnically diverse constituencies by big margins.
Labour can afford zero distractions, even if she knuckled down for the team she will put her foot in it.
I don't hate her (she's said many good things), she just has a long legacy of white feminism. Whether that bothers white people or not, it bothers many POC.
She also showed in the leadership campaign it was a lot about "Jess Phillips" like Jo Swinson had "Jo Swinson's Liberal Democrats". It's one way to do it, but it often backfires as ego rather than being a public servant.
Probably, but as I said, Starmer knows what he's doing here. Jess can carry on promoting Labour values, but she is a liability for him.
yeah pretty ruthless but then he does have the whole PLP to choose from unlike Corbyn.
It does kinda make a difference when people aren't sulking about losing.
Barry Gardiner deserves a job, he works hard for the party, generally performs well and isn't boring, he's wasted on the backbenches.
I have heard from people who have dealt with her that she's a saint.
From what I've seen, I don't think she has a 'long legacy of white feminism' at all and I think that's a really strong accusation, but people have different opinions.
I guess the real issue is that she was harsh on Corbyn in public. Even I, who really thought Corbyn was absolute shite, thought that she didn't help anyone by being so vocal.
Maybe as such a divisive figure, it is best for her not to be in the SC, though.
I, and many other people, consider Barry Gardiner to be a fucking idiot. I'm glad he's gone.
As an education professional (who has moved abroad but wants to come back one day) RLB as education secretary does not fill me with confidence.
Well i have obviously missed something horrendous that he's done, he usually seems fairly thoughtful and on top of his brief. Idiot isn't something i would think of.
Not really, I was mainly interested in being a smartarse whilst trying to make a point.
It's not me personally making the accusations, I just seen a lot of it come to the forefront when she was running
Jess Phillips, Lena Dunham and White Feminism
Nadya Ali discusses the limits of non-judgemental care and how racism passes as ‘truth-telling’
mediadiversified.org
She's managed to piss off some POC, trans people and others.
Whether it would really hurt Starmer or not, I don't know, she's said lots of other good things too. However, like it or not, she is a marmite pick for him, and it should be understandable why he didn't utilise her.
At a time when white people are flocking to the Tories to Get Brexit Done and Control Immigration, it's probably not in Starmer's best interests to do anything to rile up minority support bases. Intended or not.
Always interesting to see minority voices pretty much echo fears some have on Resetera... And as it always usually is, its the fickle white vote that must be appeased to get them to stop voting for some of the worst Tory parties of the last 10~20 years. Imagine that.
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not that they're wrong, but the issues I see raised about her on here seem very self contained this part of the internet/small circles on twitter. I can't imagine they would particularly impede her or in the party unless she was in a very prominent role.
I suggested a position for her because it would nice to see if she could be a team player or not.