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Tim Sweeney: “If Valve commits to a permanent 88% revenue share, we’ll stop making new exclusive deals” (Read Staff Post)
- Thread starter Carlius
- Start date
I have a general question: why is it that every single EGS adjacent topic, there's always the same arguments?
"Competition is good because competition is good"
"Features don't matter to me therefore it doesn't matter to anyone"
"A 12% cut totally isn't trickle down economics and they totally aren't pushing off fees to users"
"Well why don't we compare this product to a product from 15 years ago"
They're always the same. These have been asked and answered.
"Competition is good because competition is good"
"Features don't matter to me therefore it doesn't matter to anyone"
"A 12% cut totally isn't trickle down economics and they totally aren't pushing off fees to users"
"Well why don't we compare this product to a product from 15 years ago"
They're always the same. These have been asked and answered.
Cloud saves were a thing on Steam in 2009.
10 fuckin years ago.
How is that unrealistic to expect a service to launch with them ?
No search bar, no cart, no wishlist. It's barebone af. It's competiting with Pre-2009 Steam right now.
Well then you do have the choice to not use it . I wouldn't pass on my hobby because the feature set isn't as good as I would want .
At least most of the games are just timed exclusive , so not a huge deal for you anyway . Just a little longer of a wait.
It''s the internet - people ignore arguments they don't like in favour of pushing their own arguments, repeatedly, until everyone else leaves the room. It's like being stuck in a room with a really drunk person who thinks they know everything, and won't let anyone else speak. :/
That's the thing, Epic plan is that there will be no choice. You said it yourself.
https://www.resetera.com/threads/pr...rded-price-after-es-uplay-exclusivity.113305/
Games such as Anno or The Divison 2 took between 10 to 20€ of a markup in price.
It's not about hate for a company. It's about losing enthusiasm for said games, when you're being pushed to a worse alternative, rather then being provided options that you're comfortable with.
And we will always have options, meaning that any game that you lose enthusiasm for, will just be put lower on the priority list.
EGS will not have a monopoly, that's just nonsense.
I'm not saying it shouldn't have some features. I'm saying its unrealistic to expect them to match Steam from the go .
Not having a search bar or a cart seems like a strange reason to not want to play video games. That's just , my opinion tho .
Well when we are looking at games that are store specific, sure . I'm sure ubi wants to make money , as much as they can .
Even without egs , these companies with their own stores would probably start keeping their games on their stores
Boy aint that the fucking truth. Let me tell you, things like SDL 2.0 have made my life immeasurably better. And I use things like RenderDoc and VOGL every goddamn day.
Explain the "objective" benefits to me as a user from having fewer features and a reduced selection. Steam already had fewer features and reduced selection via curation in the past, and it was an objectively worse experience than now. Trying to frame this as an irrational dislike of EGS is hilarious - they are disliked because their features are worse than the competition (oh wait, those are "unnecessary features" that should be "curbed", lol) and their policies of buying away content is bad for the end user. Opposing this is perfectly rational because PC users have experienced various flavours of this bullshit in the past, and it sucked.
Secondly, there are already competitors in the market that provide these functions. So EGS serves little purpose at all other than an additional gatekeeper that reduces availability and price competition. Their most useful "contribution" to the platform seems to be the entertainment value of a company, that moaned about the PC market as full of pirates throughout the 00's, making futile attempts at gauntlet-throwing via Twitter at one of the companies that stayed and grew the platform.
Your opinion is disingenuous. I told you about cloud saves. You took the stuff I told you to highlight how far behind it is.
Dont you think there's a wide spectrum between "not matching steam" and "so barebone it doesn't even have 10 years old stuff" ?
Is there a "stupid questions to repeatedly ask in every Epic thread" checklist? Are you going through it item by item? Sure feels like it. Talk about icons next, pls, I need to fill my bingo card.
Yeah , I hear you and understand that but would i wouldn't lose ALL enthusiasm because my options weren't as comfortable .
Not saying you shouldn't, but that doesn't make sense to me .
Monopoly no , more and more and more games egs exclusive? That's gonna happen for sure.
I'm not being rude . No need to be rude to me because our opinions may differ.
Exclusive games = monopoly on said games. You are trolling at this point.
Try to make some sense. I took Anno and The Division 2. Games that, before their release and EGS deal were sold on 10 different stores at different prices. It's like you dont even read.
Sometimes I wonder if Tim is just mad that Gabe Newell ignored him at an E3 or something.
Everything about the Epic Game Store is actually a desperate cry for attention.
Everything about the Epic Game Store is actually a desperate cry for attention.
I don't see how I am trolling. I'm just voicing my opinion.
I'll just stop responding to your posts if its going to become an issue.
At GDC they did announce Epic Online Services
https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/blog/epic-s-free-online-services-launch-for-all-game-developers
This is basically already a thing with Steam. Tim clearly has no idea what the fuck he's talking about at this point.
Seriously. The sheer amount of stuff Valve does for the PC space and developers is absurd, even without providing a freely available game engine.
Yes , and voicing my opinion . Obviously we dont agree , and that's ok
The answer is, I feel, pretty simple: There is no argument in favor of the Epic Games Store for the customers. There are literally zero reasons for the customer to support the EGS. Literally zero. Not only do the customers get absolutely nothing out of this situation, they also lose a lot of buying options, they pay higher prices and some of them simply get locked entirely out of any legal purchasing options.
Sweeney sounds like a hostage taker lol
Also he's lying and would still court exclusives if Valve dropped their cut
Also he's lying and would still court exclusives if Valve dropped their cut
I have been joking for a while that I would love to put these people in an escape room where the only way to get out is by using Sony TPRNet.
Let's see them complain about Steam's 30% cut after that.
That's definitely good news! Looks like they will at least be caught up on matchmaking/online features by the end of the year at least.
If it's sustainable in the console and mobile space is sustainable everywhere. What's not sustainable is 12% for a company that doesn't crunch their devs for months to have a 1Billion money making cow.
The reason Tim is making this bet is because he knows that Valve can't afford that cut.
I've been thinking the same thing. Maybe I need my tinfoil hat, but I'm not sure facts matter here anymore. Regardless of what anyone says, the same fake arguments are constantly being repeated, ie monopoly, what you wrote above, someone in the thread suggested Steam cards was a money laundering scheme, etc. Facts are ignored, definitions changed on a whim.
Where is this coming from? What keeps it going? And why are these people allowed a voice here?
Wouldn't a 12% stardard lead to less competition and more to a monopoly? No one has the financial backing to support that apart from the giant companies, surely that would lead to the extintion of all small and medium sized stores? Or am I seeing things wrong? The costumer would suffer with only 1 or 2 options?
Tim Sweeney next week:
"Valve if you don't lower your cut. I'm going to have to keep buying exclusives.
..
..
...Also this box full of cute and fluffy kittens is going to be set on fire."
Actually no, it's more like...
"Valve if you don't lower your cut, I'm going to stick my foot in my mouth."
And it just keeps happening over and over again.
But competition is good! It will force Steam to be better! Everyone will benefit! Publishers that are getting exclusivity money will trickle that down to their workforce! It's just another launcher!
.....
Needless to say I agree with your post. This entire logic disconnect with Tim would be fucking hilarious if it wasn't sad people are carrying his water in light of the laundry list of anti-consumer implications and Tim's own company having horrible working conditions for their own devs as the Polygon article has shown.
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I'll say this, with all honesty - I can, and have, navigated PC development without touching a single Epic Games technology. I cannot say the same about technologies Valve has been behind. People want to compare Valve to Nintendo or Sony, but seriously, the types of fundamental tools they prop up, their main rival is like Microsoft, as in their OS and Visual Studios teams, not the Xbox part of microsoft.
When I see Valve today, I feel like they were birthed from this era of microsoft:
because they literally were. Gabe Newell was part of that Microsoft Millionaires push. Valve is like the modern foil to late 90's Microsoft, when Microsoft basically owned the PC developer space. It absolutely blows my mind when people say "well they don't have to provide hardware." Like, if you've done any PC game or media development in the past decade, you have your hands all over Valve technologies, even if you never work with steam at all. They and Microsoft are the serious backbones of all PC development these days. If you want to see how much Valve is propping up PC development tools, the best metric is to look where microsoft hasn't been, and see the progress that has been made over the last 10, 5 years. etc.
"Valve doesn't make games!" That's because they shifted hard into making the fundamental tools that makes the tools that make games.
I guess my big problem about this is that he's trying to frame this as an ethical debate with Epic on the good guy side instead of a simple cost vs services provided debate. But Epic Games is a massive corporation and about half of it is owned by another massive corporation (TenCent) and they're not doing these things out of the goodness of their hearts. They're also used to crazy profits (Unreal + Fortnite + Tencent) and razor-thin profits aren't going to cut it. At some point, they're going to decide that it's time to be done funneling money into the store & exclusives and time to reap the benefits and I fear that the whole 88% revshare for devs is going to shrink fast.
That is truly evil.
That is truly evil.
It's funny. They're making Valve out to be the bad guy, but what happens if Valve actually adopts their standards?
Sweeney is so full of shit. His claims about Valves high profits are a huge lie. And even if Valve would be able lower their cut to 12%, Epic would keep moneyhatting popular games to bully pc gamers into using their store.
At least someone gets it.
At least someone gets it.
We should be grateful that Epic isn't using Digital River services in their store, then? Because it was norm before (and even after for some companies like EA) Steam.
Fuck, remember how shitty Digital River was/is?
Microsoft used Digital River to distribute Windows isos until WINDOWS 10. That's insane!!
Not all enthusiasm, no.
But anything that you lose means that the devs and publishers will have to work harder for the sell, or just be ok with missing out on customers. Anything that adds additional obstacles for one to buy the game, makes you think over the purchases more before eventually buying it, or it will just make you skip the game completely.
The more a game is a must have for you, the more obstacles you will clear to get it. And as trivial as some of the obstacles might seem to others (like credentials management, store features, store client updates, etc), any single one of those issues might be something that makes you question a purchase and go for options that you feel more comfortable with and more enthusiasm for.
We have tons of options for our games today. Too many really. Which makes it's so easy to skip a particular game and do something else.
This guy is so full of shit its unbelievable. Why would valve cut their revenue by 50% just to keep Epic from money hatting? Epic could just not money hat and add all of the features steam has and actually complete instead of trying to take a shortcut. And lol at him saying saying this is the most pressing issue for pc gaming. Like he white knighting pc gaming or something he said pc gaming was dead and pc gamers were a bunch pirates 10 years ago. What a compete joke.
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Ubisoft used to use them as well. It was amazing. You were given a month to download your game, and that was it. Either that, or pay 20 bucks for the privilege to download it for another year or two. "Extended Download Service."