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Senator Toadstool

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,651
Preface: This is not to diminish any remembrance of the 9/11 attacks, it's just a reminder that other horrible things have happened on this day.

So today marks the 48th anniversary of the CIA backed coup d'etat that brought down a democratically elected socialist leader of Chile and put in place a fascist dictator who ruled for decades (till 1990) and only was brought to justice in the late 90s.

good bbc doc on it

youtu.be

Chile - The Other 911 (BBC 2003)

When we think of 9/11 most people think of September 11,2001.But for many Chileans there is another 9/11.September 11,1973.On the morning of Tuesday, Septemb...



Would love for any Chilean member to share their thoughts
 

Serpens007

Well, Tosca isn't for everyone
Moderator
Oct 31, 2017
8,135
Chile
If you have the time and want to learn the context and a lot that went through, in detail, I can't recommend this 1975 three part documentary enough. It was censored in Chile until 1997 and never shown in TV until last night. I had only watched some excerpts, but last night saw the first part in full and yes, it is an incredible documentation of the whole process.

Doc starts in March 1973.

 
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Senator Toadstool

Senator Toadstool

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,651
If you have the time and want to learn the context and a lot that went through, in detail, I can't recommend this 1975 three part documentary enough. It was censored in Chile until 1997 and never shown in TV until last night. I had only watched some excerpts, but last night saw the first part in full and yes, it is an incredible documentation of the whole process.

Doc starts in March 1973.

until last night????!!!! it's been almost 50 years!
 

Sir_Caffeine

Member
Oct 28, 2017
718
Sweden
It's the reason I'm in Sweden at all. We had to move here since my father was part of the resistance against Pinochet. The dictator put there by the CIA backed coup.
 
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Senator Toadstool

Senator Toadstool

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,651
It's the reason I'm in Sweden at all. We had to move here since my father was part of the resistance against Pinochet. The dictator put there by the CIA backed coup.
Damn, just for people literally expressing their democratic will. This wasn't even the soviets with a civil war coming to power. It was a free election
 

jelly

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
33,841
I'm not familiar with this but I recognise the name Pinochet, wasn't Margaret Thatcher friends with him, at least I remember seeing them together, quite chummy.
 
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Senator Toadstool

Senator Toadstool

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,651
I'm not familiar with this but I recognise the name Pinochet, wasn't Margaret Thatcher friends with him, at least I remember seeing them together, quite chummy.
yes. she was. i'm not british so i'm not gonna use it but there's a certain word for collaborators of her ilk
 

Altazor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,207
Chile
As for my thoughts: I'm so fucking tired of replying to "both side" centrists who are "just asking questions" and essentially go "yeah, it's a shame, but you know the people was aaaaactually supporting the coup and wanted the military to take over and aaaaactually the economy did pretty well so it wasn't all bad you know" because that's basically bullshit and you know you've got your priorities fucked up when you think "fixing the economy" (which didn't happen, either) is worth torturing/killing thousands of people and making their bodies disappear so even today their families don't know where they are.

Also, fuck Nixon and fuck Kissinger.
 

Serpens007

Well, Tosca isn't for everyone
Moderator
Oct 31, 2017
8,135
Chile
I'm not familiar with this but I recognise the name Pinochet, wasn't Margaret Thatcher friends with him, at least I remember seeing them together, quite chummy.

Yeah Pinochet aided them during the Falkland conflict, then Thatcher visited him while Pinochet was in custody in the London Clinic

 

jph139

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,448
I've always found Allende's final speech really inspiring - he easily could have tried to cut a deal with the military to flee into exile, and I wouldn't have held it against him, though who knows how well that might have gone. But the choice to stick it out at the cost of his own life, giving one final poke in the eye at the coup, is so courageous.

Surely this will be the last opportunity for me to address you. The Air Force has bombed the antennas of Radio Portales and Radio Corporación.

My words do not have bitterness but disappointment. May they be a moral punishment for those who have betrayed their oath: soldiers of Chile, titular commanders in chief, Admiral Merino, who has designated himself Commander of the Navy, and Mr. Mendoza, the despicable general who only yesterday pledged his fidelity and loyalty to the Government, and who also has appointed himself Chief of the Carabineros [paramilitary police].

Given these facts, the only thing left for me is to say to workers: I'm not going to resign! Placed in a historic transition, I will pay for the loyalty of the people with my life. And I say to them that I am certain that the seeds which we have planted in the good conscience of thousands and thousands of Chileans will not be shriveled forever.

They have force and will be able to dominate us, but social processes can be arrested by neither crime nor force. History is ours, and people make history.

Workers of my country: I want to thank you for the loyalty that you always had, the confidence that you deposited in a man who was only an interpreter of great yearnings for justice, who gave his word that he would respect the Constitution and the law and did just that. At this definitive moment, the last moment when I can address you, I wish you to take advantage of the lesson: foreign capital, imperialism, together with the reaction, created the climate in which the Armed Forces broke their tradition, the tradition taught by General Schneider and reaffirmed by Commander Araya, victims of the same social sector who today are hoping, with foreign assistance, to re-conquer the power to continue defending their profits and their privileges.

I address you, above all, the modest woman of our land, the countrywoman who believed in us, the mother who knew our concern for children. I address professionals of Chile, patriotic professionals who continued working against the sedition that was supported by professional associations, classist associations that also defended the advantages of capitalist society. I address the youth, those who sang and gave us their joy and their spirit of struggle. I address the man of Chile, the worker, the farmer, the intellectual, those who will be persecuted, because in our country fascism has been already present for many hours -- in terrorist attacks, blowing up the bridges, cutting the railroad tracks, destroying the oil and gas pipelines, in the face of the silence of those who had the obligation to act. They were committed. History will judge them.

Surely Radio Magallanes will be silenced, and the calm metal of my voice will no longer reach you. It does not matter. You will continue hearing it. I will always be next to you. At least my memory will be that of a man of dignity who was loyal to his country.

The people must defend themselves, but they must not sacrifice themselves. The people must not let themselves be destroyed or riddled with bullets, but they cannot be humiliated either.

Workers of my country, I have faith in Chile and its destiny. Other men will overcome this dark and bitter moment when treason seeks to prevail. Go forward knowing that, sooner rather than later, the great avenues will open again and free men will walk through them to construct a better society.

Long live Chile! Long live the people! Long live the workers!

These are my last words, and I am certain that my sacrifice will not be in vain, I am certain that, at the very least, it will be a moral lesson that will punish felony, cowardice, and treason.

Santiago de Chile, 11 September 1973
 

Chikor

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
14,239
I'm not familiar with this but I recognise the name Pinochet, wasn't Margaret Thatcher friends with him, at least I remember seeing them together, quite chummy.
Most of the right all over the world loved him.
Here's Milton Friedman congratulating him on the coup and the repression that follow in a letter in which he also urge him to do austerity (because right wingers never change) -

This problem is not of recent origin. It arises for trends toward socialism that started forty years ago, and reached their logical--and terrible--climax in the Allende regime. You have been extremely wise in adopting the many measures you have already taken to reverse this trend.

He's a hero to the right till this day, those fuckers always fantasize about murdering their political enemies like Pinochet did, and you can still hear them talk about helicopter rides.
 

Altazor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,207
Chile
I've always found Allende's final speech really inspiring - he easily could have tried to cut a deal with the military to flee into exile, and I wouldn't have held it against him, though who knows how well that might have gone. But the choice to stick it out at the cost of his own life, giving one final poke in the eye at the coup, is so courageous.

Allende's last speech is heartbreaking and inspiring at the same time. A work of art that breaks your heart because it was the violent end of a dream, but also one that gives you hope of a light beyond, a flame that never extinguishes, because one day we'll all witness the great avenues open wide and free people will walk through them towards a better society.
 

Sir_Caffeine

Member
Oct 28, 2017
718
Sweden
Damn, just for people literally expressing their democratic will. This wasn't even the soviets with a civil war coming to power. It was a free election
Too much socialism for USA to stomach my dude. They had to do something about it since it could otherwise spread to the entire continent! Yeah... Bullshit all of it.
And Chiles coup isn't an isolated incident in South America. That's why its was such hypocrisy when the US was telling Russia not to meddle in their elections. This was literally the only thing they did in South America (and elsewhere too).
 

Arex

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,571
Indonesia
Feels like CIA probably had hands on coups on every single country on earth.

Same thing basically happened in my country (Indonesia) lol.
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,362
Interestingly, it was revealed recently, perhaps unsurprisingly, that Australia was involved with the coup:



Which is ironic given that just a few years later the CIA would play a role in ousting Australia's own prime minister.

Viva el socialismo.
 

Chikor

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
14,239
Too much socialism for USA to stomach my dude. They had to do something about it since it could otherwise spread to the entire continent! Yeah... Bullshit all of it.
And Chiles coup isn't an isolated incident in South America. That's why its was such hypocrisy when the US was telling Russia not to meddle in their elections. This was literally the only thing they did in South America (and elsewhere too).
Th8a8Q3.jpg
 

Altazor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,207
Chile
just to clarify to some people who wouldn't understand the reference in the neonazi shirt about "Pinochet's Helicopter Tours"

there were plenty of corpses of kidnapped and tortured to death people who were opened up and filled with rocks, or had their arms/legs tied up to segments of railway tracks and then thrown from helicopters into the ocean or into volcanos.

*that's* the level of evil we were dealing with, and *that's* the level of evil these so-called "alt-right" find so funny, just so you know.

Bear in mind that obviously their rests were never found. And the torturers who were tried and sentenced never revealed the locations, either.
 

Statux

Banned
Jan 13, 2020
711
I read about it on Naomi Klein's "The Shock Doctrine" last year and wow… I'm not even Chilean but I felt filled with impotence and anger. Fuckin capitalism man
 

Li Kao

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,748
Coup d'etat that also probably took the life of Pablo Neruda a couple days after.
 

Stuntman

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
2,172
It was literally the kickstart point for Chile and most south american countries wealth inequalities, some fuckers pretty much enriched themselves overnight and continue to do so. Right wingers in Chile dismantled state businesses and welfare programs so themselves could get richer and perpetuate a neoliberal economic model instated by force by Pinochet, all of this sponsored by the US through the University of Chicago and the CIA.

It's sickening how a manufactured economic crysis got into a manufactured coup that got the country into a manufactured economic boom that only benefits a few.
 

Daniagatha

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Aug 31, 2018
603
Brazil
And you know...One thing that a lot of people don't talk about is the technological project that Allend made for Chile. It was ahead of its time. There is a nice video about it here:

 

chiller

Member
Apr 23, 2021
2,777
Most of the right all over the world loved him.
Here's Milton Friedman congratulating him on the coup and the repression that follow in a letter in which he also urge him to do austerity (because right wingers never change) -

This problem is not of recent origin. It arises for trends toward socialism that started forty years ago, and reached their logical--and terrible--climax in the Allende regime. You have been extremely wise in adopting the many measures you have already taken to reverse this trend.

Yeah, Milton Friedman deserves an extra fuck you for both legitimizing Pinochet AND training the Chicago Boys to "liberalize" the economy. He would argue that he did nothing wrong because a "free market" to him is one that separates itself from politics, and it all led to democracy in the end. Everything for the free market.

Milton Friedman said:
In spite of my profound disagreement with the authoritarian political system of Chile, I do not consider it as evil for an economist to render technical economic advice to the Chilean government, any more than I would regard it as evil for a physician to give technical medical advice to the Chilean government to help end a medical plague.
 

Deleted member 90924

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 29, 2021
821
The Pinochet File by Peter Kornbluh is really good. Uses, and includes,, the docs declassified during the Clinton admin. Very interesting read and really gets into the mechanics of US involvement.

I will say, unlike a lot of the CIA's more "active" coup roles in the region (eg Argentina), it is a very interesting look at how the US used its soft power to destabilize the Chilean economy and media, resulting in the coup. I think it starts during the Kennedy administration too so you get a lot of the US Imperial efforts there before Allende even took office too. Really great read and as a history major, I love that includes a lot of its US primary sources.
 
Oct 29, 2017
3,133
Florida
I always remind people that this happened every year.

Fuck all the people involved in the coup and hope they're all rotting/will rot when they die (Kissinger just die already)
 

Chikor

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
14,239
Yeah, Milton Friedman deserves an extra fuck you for both legitimizing Pinochet AND training the Chicago Boys to "liberalize" the economy. He would argue that he did nothing wrong because a "free market" to him is one that separates itself from politics, and it all led to democracy in the end. Everything for the free market.
The freedoms America cares about are freedoms for business and rich people.
We pretend that we care about universal human rights but that's just propaganda to get public to support those things.

And if there is one thing you can count our good buddies would do once they get into power is to try and privatize everything that moves and cut taxes on the rich and on businesses.
 

lunarworks

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,316
Toronto
My father-in-law haaaates the CIA, but my mother-in-law will avoid saying anything bad about Pinochet. It's a weird dynamic.
 

Trafalgar Law

Member
Nov 6, 2017
4,684
CIA still having good ratings among most folks is proof that soft power media is propaganda
The worst and most evil org
 

jelly

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
33,841
I half assumed what they did in South America was some odd fight against the USSR, like they thought the USSR was taking over countries or something but it was really just pretty casual socialist/capitalist mix that they hated at the height of communism boogie man?
 

Army of Light

alt account
Banned
Sep 5, 2021
98
I feel that we should abolish the cia, no organization should exist without accountability. Every organization must obey the law.
 

Chikor

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
14,239
CIA still having good ratings among most folks is proof that soft power media is propaganda
The worst and most evil org
People had waaaaaaaaaaay worse opinion about the CIA in the past. In the 70s after a lot of their crimes became public, there was some serious discussion in the US about maybe dismantling that criminal organization.
But they ran an extremely successful propaganda campaign, with the help of the media and Hollywood in particular.

Like go back to old James Bond movies and see how the CIA is depicted compared to how they are in modern James Bond films. And that's James Bond, not even talking about 70s paranoia films.
 
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Senator Toadstool

Senator Toadstool

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,651
People had waaaaaaaaaaay worse opinion about the CIA in the past. In the 70s after a lot of their crimes became public, there was some serious discussion in the US about maybe dismantling that criminal organization.
But they ran an extremely successful propaganda campaign, with the help of the media and Hollywood in particular.

Like go back to old James Bond movies and see how the CIA is depicted compared to how they are in modern James Bond films. And that's James Bond, not even talking about 70s paranoia films.
Yup the CIA did a psyop on the American people through hollywood. It's insane we don't talk about this
 

Kain

Unshakable Resolve - One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
7,668
Ah the CIA, one of the most evil organizations in the history of mankind. Did they ever do anything remotely good? Probably not. Fuckers
 

Altazor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,207
Chile
I half assumed what they did in South America was some odd fight against the USSR, like they thought the USSR was taking over countries or something but it was really just pretty casual socialist/capitalist mix that they hated at the height of communism boogie man?

Half "we can't have a USSR-positive government inside our own sphere of influence", half "we can't let other countries realize there's a non-violent way for a socialist/communist government to be formed otherwise our own influence will be lessened"

We're all the US backyard. They couldn't allow us actual freedom from their designs.
 
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Senator Toadstool

Senator Toadstool

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,651
thinking about the CIAs presence in hollywood. it's insane the dude from black panther was not trying to killthe black panther and instead was portrayed as a kind bubbling helper
 

chiller

Member
Apr 23, 2021
2,777
I half assumed what they did in South America was some odd fight against the USSR, like they thought the USSR was taking over countries or something but it was really just pretty casual socialist/capitalist mix that they hated at the height of communism boogie man?

Nixon wanted to "avoid another Cuba," fearing that a socialist Chile would pivot and ally themselves with countries that had "similar ideologies." (in Nixon's mind — Cuba, the USSR, etc. Pretty standard red scare shit.) He also didn't want lose American "investments" that had been made in Chile.

After Allende was elected and Kissinger had promoted subverting the elected government, Nixon made the call to interfere and push for a coup.
 

Chikor

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
14,239
thinking about the CIAs presence in hollywood. it's insane the dude from black panther was not trying to killthe black panther and instead was portrayed as a kind bubbling helper
I donno, it's pretty on brand for the CIA to try to re-instate a deposed monarch who will open the country's natural resources to the west.

I half assumed what they did in South America was some odd fight against the USSR, like they thought the USSR was taking over countries or something but it was really just pretty casual socialist/capitalist mix that they hated at the height of communism boogie man?
America tried to regime change and/or destroy every single country in the history of the world who tried to veer too far from capitalism for our taste.
We often used the USSR as an excuse for that, and to scare the American people into supporting this shit, but we've been doing it since before the soviet union was founded and we haven't stopped after their dissolution.