...Was she really, though? What evidence do you have that Nancy sank candidates?
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The Intercept: Inside Biden’s Meeting with Civil Rights Leaders
- Thread starter TarpitCarnivore
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...Was she really, though? What evidence do you have that Nancy sank candidates?
There's some evidence in dabig2's post. Anecdotally, I live in a district where the Dems were hoping to pick up a House seat. Every attack ad mentioned Nancy Pelosi. Very few mentioned "Defund the Police".
None of the candidates that lost ran on defunding the police.
Well it should be noted that when you have a propaganda machine like what the right has it almost doesn't matter if they don't explicitly run on a certain thing, they'll be painted as if they are anyway.
In an election where Democrats were called socialists, were linked to Venezeula and Castro, were called China shills, and obstructionists, in addition to being linked to Nancy, Medicare for All, and defund the police... I am going to say it was more than Nancy Pelosi that cost those Democrats their seats.
Yeah, Pelosi is Hillary levels of negative impact for the electorate. She's been there a long time and is a consistent battering ram. Everyone knows that, and Pelosi herself constantly mentions that as her job to act as a shield for the moderate members.
And when you look at those ads and speeches...
it's pretty standard Republican fare tbh. 2012 and 2016 era type nonsense. If you parse the radio or paper or online media, it'll trend the same way.
Now if one were to instead look the other way and see how much others got hyped up by the BLM movement, with Defund being already a recognizable demand coming out of a lot of protests, then it becomes a more interesting convo. But it's never looked at from that angle, despite even clear evidence that Dem voter registrations did rise a lot as a direct consequence of the protests.
We could snuff all every mention of Defund the Police from existence starting from June, and the election would have roughly played out the same way, except I think Biden would've won by less, even if a tiny fraction less.
Sure but that doesn't make it the reason why the Democrats failed.
I'm sure a lot of these factors in together. It most likely wasn't a singular thing and most certainly wasn't solely defunding the police. The common denominator though is Nancy Pelosi.
Am I missing something here? He's saying he doesn't have executive authority to do a lot of things that he wants to do and that he doesn't want to risk talking about defunding the police before the Jan 5th runoffs. It reads like a pretty standard, uncontroversial realpolitik conversation.
It seems like a lot of people didn't read beyond the title or something.
It seems like a lot of people didn't read beyond the title or something.
No one is saying that the Dems lost the election due to Nancy. Just adding a bit more context as to why a Dem here or there might have struggled in 2020.
Remember, this entire debate is not being started from the left. The conservative and moderate wing of the Dems chose to attack M4A and Defund The Police as the reasons for a subpar performance down ballot basically the night of the election. And it has not stopped, and why these threads probably won't either. Cause Defund ain't going away of course and the liberals need a scapegoat.
That's why Nancy Pelosi is used as an example here. We have tangible evidence of how the Repubs message around her to win an election down the wire, so why so little evidence for Defund the Police - especially when we were getting close to crunch time? Just opinion polls which aren't even that bad compared to other issues or people (like Pelosi), and also those opinion polls also don't tell us how much that issue matters to them in voting.
Ads though are a decent way into seeing where campaigns chose to focus their messaging. We're talking tens of millions of dollars of research spent into identifying trends and messages - the exact thing the moderates are whining about with Defund but yet we're seeing most of the same bogstandard attacks.
So why all the hype around Defund?
Yeah, it was the party as a whole allowing the GOP to set the narrative yet again, because ultimately they don't believe in leftist policies and don't mind them poisoning the well. It's incompetence at best.
Yep. It's why they've adopted the "access to choice" bullshit that was created by the marketing departments of health insurance companies. The Right can easily control the narrative when the Dem establishment bends over backward to run away from the message.
I feel this is one of the reasons that Trump is so damn popular with his base. He'll run with anything they come up with and raise it to a national level. He'll defend the shit out of whatever his base feels is holding them back.
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I'll tell you the answer.
45% of our "fellow" Americans are deeply hateful, spiteful little shits who would vote for a merged Osama/Hitler/Satan if he said racist shit and fuck them kids 24/7. This stupid firing circle progressives/leftists and centrists/moderates have made to explain away the fact that almost half the country are irredeemable little shits is beyond frustrating.
Mostly because we either don't want to or can't acknowledge how shit they are and how much work we have to do.
IIRC she was pretty quiet at the time. She wasn't back in the spotlight until Covid came around and she did the Chinatown thing, and sitting in front of her $10k ice cream freezer.
Nobody voted for Trump in 2018. I'm not sure what your point is.
Trump is merely the vehicle.
Racism was always the factor. If Pelosi was the issue Dems wouldn't have done as well as they did.
Doesn't the president's party always get blown out in midterms?
I'm not saying that racism isn't 90% of it, but I'm not connecting the dots where we picked up the House in 2018, but then lost seats this year even though Trump lost. I think Pelosi being the Majority leader again reminded everyone how much they disliked her, and helped win back some House seats and probably hurt the close Senate races.
No.
If that was the case a state like GA wouldn't have been as close at the senate level as it was.
Yeah I disagree. It's a racist country and you don't have to tell any of us here that.
But again, irredeemably racist people is not my take from the races that were lost or subpar this election cycle for the Dems. At least not any more than any other election that has ever happened.
My takes align more with this:
Memo to Democrats: 2020 Elections Show Progressive Vision, Not Centrist Restraint, Is Winning Message for the Future
"Scapegoating progressives and Black activists for their demands and messaging is not the lesson to be learned here. It was their organizing efforts, energy, and calls for change needed in their communities that drove up voter turnout."
www.commondreams.org
I think these are more important takes to get from the election. And far more useful to strategy and action going forward in the future.
Progressives still ran behind Biden.Yeah I disagree. It's a racist country and you don't have to tell any of us here that.
But again, irredeemably racist people is not my take from the races that were lost or subpar this election cycle for the Dems. At least not any more than any other election that has ever happened.
My takes align more with this:
Memo to Democrats: 2020 Elections Show Progressive Vision, Not Centrist Restraint, Is Winning Message for the Future
"Scapegoating progressives and Black activists for their demands and messaging is not the lesson to be learned here. It was their organizing efforts, energy, and calls for change needed in their communities that drove up voter turnout."
I think these are more important takes to get from the election. And far more useful to strategy and action going forward in the future.
It's far past time we stop silly infighting like this and actually accomplish are goals. Take hits where they're needed (Cunningham, Florida) and understand the bigger trend at hand (people want change, but not revolution; at least not yet).
Progressives will stop fighting when they are no longer being thrown under the bus. The only reason why people are bringing up specfic reasons behind 2020's election results when the actual answer is a lot more complicated is because many "centrists" have decided to blame activists and a activist phrase for their loses. Also, in your 45% people in the US are evil incarnate, where do the non voters fall under?
I'm laying the blame on both groups.
The non voters are a non factor here because they aren't voting. And they are not some massive secret socialists either.
I dunno. Establishment Dems come out of the gates blaming "defund the police", then there's a hint of push back and all of a sudden calls for unity. Getting behind Biden WAS the unity, and still the knives come out.
To be fair, this all started because someone leaked a private house meeting.
No one was going public with anything until then. Palace intrigue should stay in the palace and let the voters do the talking and deciding.
Of course they voted for Biden. Who else they gonna vote for lol
The issue is establishing what the goals are. Leftists push for M4A. Centrists push for M4A (who want it). Which is not the same goal.
Leftists want to defund the police. Centrists want to give the police more money. This is not the same goal.
On and on it goes for any issue that threatens the status quo.
Some did, some didn't. Like every election ever. Your data point here means literally nothing, especially when you consider that a lot of those races had split votes or the liberals literally endorsing the Repub challenger.
And plenty of centrist/moderates ran behind Biden as well, whereas others won their shit. Here's what I do know about some of these races:
It's centered around M4A, but honestly the ones who won with M4A here are also the ones who can be called friendly to Defund The Police.
Also, don't you find this a little bit interesting?
Face it, the left has more power in the House now for a reason - because they won their shit and the more conservative minded didn't. It's not the fault of the left, so the conservative wing are just going to have to find a way to suck less.
I agree with those saying there is no particular evidence defund the police killed some of the federal seats from Dems vs other factors like messaging and Rep propaganda. Honestly in terms of defund the police, it is more the centrist dems hanging the noose on themselves since they are the ones pursuing this fight.
Wtf? Why should politicians attacking their more progressive colleagues and activists, both in private and in public, stay private? We elect these people, we should know about this behavior.
I just hope that before 2022, they will realize that if they want real power, then they will need to run on real change. But I know that won't happen since they didn't learn it between 2016 and 2020.
Some did, some didn't. Like every election ever. Your data point here means literally nothing, especially when you consider that a lot of those races had split votes or the liberals literally endorsing the Repub challenger.
And plenty of centrist/moderates ran behind Biden as well, whereas others won their shit. Here's what I do know about some of these races:
It's centered around M4A, but honestly the ones who won with M4A here are also the ones who can be called friendly to Defund The Police.
Also, don't you find this a little bit interesting?
Face it, the left has more power in the House now for a reason - because they won their shit and the more conservative minded didn't. It's not the fault of the left, so the conservative wing are just going to have to find a way to suck less.
I mean, holding up the "good ones" isn't a compelling argument for much of anything. Of course Republicans love minorities and women who debase themselves for the strong white men. Look at Comey Barret.
I didn't say the Centrists aren't sucking on things, I said both sides need to chill the fuck out with this circular firing squad thing we got going on. We jus unseated and incumbent who got the second most votes in US history. Why we're looking for reasons to blame each other instead of working together is beyond me but it is quite tiring.
Uh, no, palace intrigue should NOT stay palace intrigue because A. It ain't a palace and B. we have a right to know what they are saying behind our backs.
In Spanberger's defense she attacked absolutely no one. She merely voiced her opinion.(Which was wrong of course)
She was definitely attacking the activists pushing for change, by saying they and their demands cost the Dems house seats (which is a complete fucking lie).
I don't want to hear a white boy calling minorities "one of the good ones" no matter what party they're in wind your fucking neck in and stay in your goddamn lane
Much harder to keep fighting for corporate interests and the donor class when nasty leftists try to create some transparency on those discussions.
This shit is the same as when your shady ass manager tells all the workers to bring up any issues they have to them IN PRIVATE. It's an attempt to maintain power and quiet any dissent that would material improve the conditions of those without privileged positions.
She shouldn't have said anything. Espesically if she's gonna use that lazy ass bullshit defense she used.
User banned (1 month): Defending the usage of a racist dogwhistle, prior infraction for dismissive behavior towards minority members
I call someone willing to throw their own to the wolves just so they can get my people's depraved approval what they are thank you very much.
Or should I be more white and happy someone like the Kentucky AG covers up justice to please his GOP donors and base?
Yup, that's exactly what this is, it's only in service of corruption and saving face for bad decisions that harm people.
Hey, I didn't say what they said is smart. With all do respect to Rep. Clyburn Harrison didn't lose due BLM or Defund. He lost because white people saw a black liberal in a southern state running and they hated that.
Fuckin' A. Calls for "unity" at this stage are the last refuge of entrenched assholes who don't have an argument.
Pretending to be an "ally" and speaking on behalf of black folk while shitting on black people and stanning for policies and politicians that keep them oppressed no I don't think you could get much whiter.
Unless of course I'm equally blaming the moderates/centrists as well.
"Shitting on black people".
lol. You continue to be truly toxic.
Yes please white dude that just declared himself arbiter of whether minorities are traitors to their race go ahead and teach the class about toxicity.