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re: the spoiler
worst part of the season for me. ;_;7 absolutely loved Ashford and I'm gutted I won't get more Ashford / Drummer scenes.
Loving what they did to book 4 so far. It's one of the weaker ones and the season gave it some gravitas. Especially the space scenes in the orbit of New Terra (Illus is belter garbage!).
Also loved the extra stories we got from Bobbie and Avarasasalele -she could finally swear more!
Setting up Book 5 also went great, despite the book playing years later.
I'm really curious how they will proceed though as book 6 and 7 are yeeeears after these events ... and the alien story gets discarded for quite some time.
Also loved the extra stories we got from Bobbie and Avarasasalele -she could finally swear more!
Setting up Book 5 also went great, despite the book playing years later.
I'm really curious how they will proceed though as book 6 and 7 are yeeeears after these events ... and the alien story gets discarded for quite some time.
So it's coming back? Aw yiss!
I think The Expanse is at it's best when alien stuff is involved.
Well, if they pull off book 5 correctly, you should not not miss the alien stuff too much next season.
Book 5 might have been my favorite of the 7 i've read so far.
Haha, I personally can't decide whether I hated book 4 more than 5 or if it's the other way around...
Here's my take on book 5 from earlier in the thread:
The team was split up the entire time. I hate it when the crew splits up...
I hated everything about the Naomi chapters. I sighed every time they came up.
She was held hostage again (just like at the end of book 4...). In the end, she got away on her own but she just felt way too fragile and helpless the entire time.
I hate Marco and Filip with a passion. I guess for Marco that's the point but he kind of felt a little too untouchable and I wanted to slap some sense into that fucking brat Filip so badly! I think Mao was a way better bad guy.
Amos' arc was the saving grace of the book for me.
I did enjoy Alex's and Holden's chapters as well and I wished they would have fleshed those stories out a little more.
I hated everything about the Naomi chapters. I sighed every time they came up.
She was held hostage again (just like at the end of book 4...). In the end, she got away on her own but she just felt way too fragile and helpless the entire time.
I hate Marco and Filip with a passion. I guess for Marco that's the point but he kind of felt a little too untouchable and I wanted to slap some sense into that fucking brat Filip so badly! I think Mao was a way better bad guy.
Amos' arc was the saving grace of the book for me.
I did enjoy Alex's and Holden's chapters as well and I wished they would have fleshed those stories out a little more.
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OP
OP
Hey! I went ahead and edited this to include a spoiler tag. I know what you're going for and I can understand why you may have figured not tagging it would be OK but honestly I've seen this exact phrase used in a few season 4 reviews online and every time that I do I am like "Someone is gonna get this and be spoiled." :P
In the later books, the alien stuff becomes much more important and will likely play a key role in the ultimate ending, although human actions still drive much of the drama, and the alien stuff is not always as the forefront. Book 5 is one of my favourite books, but I can understand being frustrated by the alien storyline taking a bit of a hiatus. I like to think of books 5 and 6 as the 'last hurrah' for the inter-factional wars and turmoil of the Sol system.
I'm kinda fine with the alien stuff being put on hold for a bit. It's definitely one of my favorite parts of the show, but we did just have two massive seasons of mysterious alien object shit so I'm fine moving on to the political especially with the interesting setup they have.
I haven't read the books, so how many years are you talking? Like decades? Or just like 5 years or something?
The time jump is 30 years, and it actually takes place in after book 6. Anti-aging treatments had been only discussed obliquely up until this point (when Avasarala thinks about her probable life expectancy it is well over 100), but are available for those who can pay. So our heroes are still able to get on with the job, just a little slower.
I wouldn't be surprised if the show cuts it down to a more manageable 15 years, but it really does need to be a considerable skip. The authors initially thought to just continue to tell the story without the time-jump, but they decided that the big jump, while risky, was for the best: they wanted to tell the most exciting part of the story, rather than pad it out with 3 books worth of what would ultimately amount to sidequests.
I wouldn't be surprised if the show cuts it down to a more manageable 15 years, but it really does need to be a considerable skip. The authors initially thought to just continue to tell the story without the time-jump, but they decided that the big jump, while risky, was for the best: they wanted to tell the most exciting part of the story, rather than pad it out with 3 books worth of what would ultimately amount to sidequests.
Took me a bit to get into this season (which was true of the series overall) but by the end I was definitely binging. So glad it wasn't canceled
I did find myself skipping through parts of the bobbie subplot -- I liked the broader story of Mars's decline but I didn't really care about the dude she was fucking or her nephew, etc. Still, I'm excited for how it ended which I assume will tie back into Marco and the OPA. but it didn't detract from the season overall. The end of the season didn't really make sense to me though:
I would have preferred more advancement of the main story rather than just character growth but it was enjoyable all the same and I can't wait for S05
I did find myself skipping through parts of the bobbie subplot -- I liked the broader story of Mars's decline but I didn't really care about the dude she was fucking or her nephew, etc. Still, I'm excited for how it ended which I assume will tie back into Marco and the OPA. but it didn't detract from the season overall. The end of the season didn't really make sense to me though:
I get that Ashford didn't want to kill Naomi's son but they were still in a standoff in which he could have killed Marco at any time, so how did he end up in the airlock? I understand from a story perspective why that had to happen I just think it was executed poorly
I would have preferred more advancement of the main story rather than just character growth but it was enjoyable all the same and I can't wait for S05
Just started this show. Feels poetic since I started the decade with my first ever binge watch of Battlestar Galactica and I'm ending it with another space show.
It's also insane that there's barely been any other space TV in the gap in between!
It's also insane that there's barely been any other space TV in the gap in between!
Why would the OPA be done? They're one of the three major factions in the galaxy.
Really enjoyed the season for all the same reasons as usual(acting, characters, pacing, etc.), but gotta admit, don't really understand what the "point" of
the Ilus artifacts were. Maybe I missed something fundamental, but it didn't seem like it really fleshed out anything about the builders/aliens/protomolecule.
I really loved the blindness/eel/starvation subplot, though. That sort of slow, defeated slippage into death, particularly from Amos, was done really well. It actually gave me some flashes of The Terror and I'd actually love to see the alternate universe version of this show that committed to that path.
I really loved the blindness/eel/starvation subplot, though. That sort of slow, defeated slippage into death, particularly from Amos, was done really well. It actually gave me some flashes of The Terror and I'd actually love to see the alternate universe version of this show that committed to that path.
I really liked this season.
And Avasarala's outfits continue to be the highlight of the show.
I really enjoyed the hostile alien planet story; even though the continuing inner vs belter conflict is kinda frustrating - can't anyone just put it away for a single minute! - I liked the struggle for survival, and the mystery of the artifacts. I love Bobbie and Avasarala so I'd watch them watching paint dry but it felt like both their stories was just one unforced error after another. Holden and the rest fucking up on the planet was more they didn't have enough info to make the best of a bunch of bad decisions, but every time Bobbie/Avasarala made a silly decision I just wanted to shake them and tell them they were smarter than that.
The only thing I really disliked about the season was noticing
That until maybe the last two episodes almost every Drummer and Ashford scene was two talking heads in the same room. They must have filmed the season in a day. It seemed like a real waste and started to feel cheap.Boarding Marcos ship with three dudes was also eye rolling.
It gave us insight into how alien these "builders" really were, where they terraforming this place themselves, even after hijacking the primordial life?
Also gave us a bit more of an insight into what actually killed them, that there's something even more powerful than the ones who made the protomolecule and built the ring gates.
Also gave us a bit more of an insight into what actually killed them, that there's something even more powerful than the ones who made the protomolecule and built the ring gates.
Just blazed through the final 4 episodes last night. I forgot The Expanse loves its cliffhangers!
Really liked the season; Amos gets a lot of love and rightfully so, but Alex is such a cool character, really dependable and calming, with a great accent too!
Episode 9 was probably the best one.
Really liked the season; Amos gets a lot of love and rightfully so, but Alex is such a cool character, really dependable and calming, with a great accent too!
Episode 9 was probably the best one.
Yeah that bit rankled me. He could've taken Marco down at least. Maybe he thought doing that would make Phillip 100% committed to the cause and he thinks there's still a chance Naomi could turn him?
It doesn't work either. Like "if I die this kid maybe would have a chance of redemption later" is not Ashford. Also he was pissed for losing the chance of killing Marco earlier. Marco dead would be a half win anyway, Ashford wouldn't miss the chance.
I'm pretty much in agreement with the earlier response to this from Paganmoon - but with one additional thought:
As well as demonstrating the power of the civilisation that made the protomolecule, and how badly humanity understands their motivations, it's also representative of the scale that the civilisation operated on, which humanity is aiming to reach. Whatever Ilus was originally, it's now a constructed world, with gigantic automated processes that still work after a billion years.
That means humanity is rebuilding the ruins of a civilisation that thought in universal timeframes and could relocate planets and moons to suit its purposes. There is a contrast there to both Mars (where the effort to turn Mars into a liveable world is fragmenting after a few centuries) and to the way the factions relate to each other (the ring builders moved planets and moons around to create things - humanity can move around smaller rocks, but does so with intent to destroy).
That means humanity is rebuilding the ruins of a civilisation that thought in universal timeframes and could relocate planets and moons to suit its purposes. There is a contrast there to both Mars (where the effort to turn Mars into a liveable world is fragmenting after a few centuries) and to the way the factions relate to each other (the ring builders moved planets and moons around to create things - humanity can move around smaller rocks, but does so with intent to destroy).
What others have said is pretty used spot on, but to add some book lore:
The planet is rich in Lithium, which is a comparatively rare material in the Sol system, and it is unlikely that such quantities could occur naturally. The thing that exploded is suspected to be some kind of reactor. Based on these factors, Elvi's hypothesis is that the closest human analogue to what Ilus was is some kind of battery/mine/refinery/power generation system/petrol station. The death-moons security system also supports this idea of the planet as being strategically important. What this says to me about the Gate Builders is that they had some needs that were quite mundane, but the scale at which they operated is beyond our wildest dreams.
This was by far the worst season. What the heck happened? I don't know the source material so maybe it's that? The pacing was completely off, lots of filler content. Detective Miller and Ashford were the saving graces of this season. Otherwise a complete waste of time, honestly.
My first post in the thread and it's just to say that reading through this thread after binge watching the season has been incredibly frustrating.
I'm not a book reader beyond the first three but I feel like I've now accidentally read books 5-7 as well and now know major plot points I had no desire to know just by skimming posts and clicking on occasional spoiler tags that I thought were about the show and not the books.
Love the show, but I can't say the same about the thread.
I'm not a book reader beyond the first three but I feel like I've now accidentally read books 5-7 as well and now know major plot points I had no desire to know just by skimming posts and clicking on occasional spoiler tags that I thought were about the show and not the books.
Love the show, but I can't say the same about the thread.
I have a question regarding something that was talked about in this season. If someone can provide clarity without spoiling anything to come I'd appreciate it, but if that's not possible just let me know an answer is coming and that will be enough!
Miller with the hat vs Miller without the hat.
This was a bit confusing. Was he saying that if he appears without the hat, it's actually the "real" Miller, whereas the one with the hat is the ProtoMolecule impersonating him? Did it just so happen that both Millers wanted to go to the planet? I'm sure I had heard both of them saying "I'm just flipping switches", so am I to understand that neither "version" of Miller really knows what's going on, or what happened to "the builders"?
Was it the case that Hat-Miller wanted to know what happened, whereas Hatless-Miller just wanted to "die"?
This was a bit confusing. Was he saying that if he appears without the hat, it's actually the "real" Miller, whereas the one with the hat is the ProtoMolecule impersonating him? Did it just so happen that both Millers wanted to go to the planet? I'm sure I had heard both of them saying "I'm just flipping switches", so am I to understand that neither "version" of Miller really knows what's going on, or what happened to "the builders"?
Was it the case that Hat-Miller wanted to know what happened, whereas Hatless-Miller just wanted to "die"?
Your last sentence is pretty much correct. Hat/original/investigator Miller is a sentient program wearing his (and all of Eros') personality for interface purposes trying to report back to the Builders that the Sol ring is now active, and grew from there trying to get an email read receipt. Every time the Miller program tried to send a report via a new avenue (switch) and failed, the protomolecule killed him and rebuilt him. When he got to the Ilus structures he managed to slip his leash and become more independent (hatless) and managed to fulfil Miller's personal goals rather than the protomolecule's.
Miller has access to Builder knowledge the same way a computer has access to a database stored on any local harddrive it's plugged into (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpbDOAK0RZw&feature=youtu.be&t=22). He doesn't know precisely what happened to the Builders, pretty much the same as what Holden learned through his visions.
Miller has access to Builder knowledge the same way a computer has access to a database stored on any local harddrive it's plugged into (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpbDOAK0RZw&feature=youtu.be&t=22). He doesn't know precisely what happened to the Builders, pretty much the same as what Holden learned through his visions.
While I really enjoyed the season so far, I'd say that the source book that it's from is the least interesting one for me. However most of what happens this season / books sets the stage for end game stuff.
Ugh. Thanks for the warning. I just finished the season and came in here to post, but if folks aren't differentiating between show and book spoilers....I'm out!
Amos' "phone" thing has interesting friends listing and schedule (Eat, Drink, Stomp)
I am so intensely curious who each of those contacts are. Except Alex, it's kinda funny that everyone else gets a description but Alex is just Alex.
There's nothing to be afraid of really, not sure how Tunesmith did not notice the spoilertags clearly saying its bookspoilers when thats the case, I mean its your own fault if you click on a spoilertag that says book 5(or some other book) spoilers, I have not been spoiled about anything because I usually don't click on spoilertags for book spoilers.
Finished it tonight. I really enjoyed the season until the last 2 episodes. It went out on a bit of a whimper.
There were only 2 things I actively hated: Zavala and Marco. Zavala was a complete asshole the whole season, and they faield to make me see things from her perspective. Marco is just awful because he has plot armor out the ass. Why the fuck was he at gunpoint at the end of episode 10 then let go? And Marco's "plan" is based on a single time they threw a ship at earth or wherever, and now they can work around their defenses. Someone make this less silly for me without book stuff.
Well, that's good. As long as book spoilers are tagged as such. I was kind of afraid to browse in here at all.
I put off reading book 7 for a while for this reason, but books 7 & 8 turned out to be some of my favourites.
Finished season 4, I hate to admit it but with how great Mr. Robot and Watchmen has been week to week I prefer that format to this kind of season binge drop, since it makes it far easier and more robust on internet threads/etc. I understand a lot more now why Netflix shows don't get a lot of chatter online but still seem to have huge views.
I liked it, but didn't love season 4. I thought the climax in the planet was a lot weaker than season 3's climax. Season 2 is still my absolute favorite, its just nail biting tension every episode. I rarely felt much tension in season 4.
I've read all the books and honestly 4-8 are all mediocre to me, and it starts with 4 so really wondering how much steam the show has at this point. Hopefully they can get back to the pacing and rhythms of season 1 and 2, I rewatched it before my season 4 binge and I loved all those episodes.
I liked it, but didn't love season 4. I thought the climax in the planet was a lot weaker than season 3's climax. Season 2 is still my absolute favorite, its just nail biting tension every episode. I rarely felt much tension in season 4.
I've read all the books and honestly 4-8 are all mediocre to me, and it starts with 4 so really wondering how much steam the show has at this point. Hopefully they can get back to the pacing and rhythms of season 1 and 2, I rewatched it before my season 4 binge and I loved all those episodes.
Uncertain on a few:
Cap'n - Holden
Boss - Naomi
Alex - Alex
Tonight - Wei (?)
Peaches - Clarrisa Mao/"Melba" (there's a dessert called Peach Melba)
Doc - Elvi (?)
My Best Friend - Prax
Ashford seemed to think that if he killed Marco his son would shoot him and carry on with Marco's plan anyway. Perhaps he also didn't want to kill Naomi's child. Either way, he instead surrendered and used the time to send a transmission of his final moments, including his conversation with Marco, to someone.
The ship attack was a feint at Earth's orbital asteroid detection system, to find out how close things can get before they're detected, missile travel time etc... The planned asteroid attack is using asteroids coated with Martian stealth tech, and we can see from the chart at the end that they're releasing them on long slingshot orbits coming from a variety of angles.
The ship attack was a feint at Earth's orbital asteroid detection system, to find out how close things can get before they're detected, missile travel time etc... The planned asteroid attack is using asteroids coated with Martian stealth tech, and we can see from the chart at the end that they're releasing them on long slingshot orbits coming from a variety of angles.
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tbf there are (or were) quite a few open spoilers throughout the thread, and hints and mentions of books openly, or within untagged book spoilers.
They've said they have ideas. The book's authors are part of the writing room/production team, so I think everyone would have been thinking about the future of the series, not just the immediate next season.
It is not really directly spelled out throughout much of the books, but there had previously been hints that life expectancy for the well-off is higher than today: Avasarala mentions in one book that she expects to live past 120 With the right treatments. When we start book 7, the characters are older and slower, but more like 45 than 60-70, because they have started taking anit-aging treatments.
The time jump is pretty important - it allows for a new status quo to develop for the end of the series - so it can't be really be removed from the story. However, it could definitely be shortened to 15 years if absolutely necessary, and if they start foreshadowing anti-aging treatments, or do some exposition about medical breakthroughs in regenerative medicine based on the way the protomolecule works, just some hair and light makeup work might be enough (plus giving poor Stephen Straight some glasses so that he doesn't have to squint all the time!).
The time jump is pretty important - it allows for a new status quo to develop for the end of the series - so it can't be really be removed from the story. However, it could definitely be shortened to 15 years if absolutely necessary, and if they start foreshadowing anti-aging treatments, or do some exposition about medical breakthroughs in regenerative medicine based on the way the protomolecule works, just some hair and light makeup work might be enough (plus giving poor Stephen Straight some glasses so that he doesn't have to squint all the time!).
15 years is what i had in mind too. Together with light makeuo adjustment and explaining the life lenghtening treatments to the viewers, the cast doesnt have to change much. Amos beard can even grower bigger and he can go bald, like he's in the books