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Blackpuppy

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,206
While reading the umpteenth post on Star Wars on Resetera, there have been people on those threads wondering, "How much did Lucas plan out the original trilogy?" Well, the answer to that is... Just like any work of fiction, you have an idea and you write it down. Then you move things around and edit things, and re-work other ideas and come up with even better ones. It's a whole process and to think that any creator sits down and hammers out a masterpiece in one go is fooling themselves.

So I'd like to share with you how the script for the original Star Wars evolved. The information can be found in more detail in the book, "The Secret History of Star Wars" by Michael Kaminski. I've read it myself and it is a very good look and analysis of every draft of every Star Wars film (well, episodes 4 though 6 and then the prequels).

In any case, I'd like to share with you a overview of the evolution of the original Star Wars to show that creating Star Wars took years of edits and rewrites and in the process, ideas were tossed only to be reworked in further films.

ONE: Story Synopsis - May 1973 "The Star Wars"

The galaxy is plagued by a civil war between an evil Empire and rebel forces. Two bickering Imperial bureaucrats try to flee from a space fortress which is under attack, and crash land on the planet of Aquilae. A wanted rebel princess and her relentless general Luke Skywalker, on their way to a space port in order to get the princess to safety, find and capture them and after a hazardous journey the group make it to a religious temple where they discover a band of young boy rebels. The boys decide to follow them across the wasteland in spite of the general's reluctance, and they soon reach a shabby cantina near the space port where the general is forced to use his "lazer sword" to kill a bully who is taunting one of the boys. The group, pursued by Imperial troops, must steal a fighter ship in order to escape and after a long chase they manage to hide in an asteroid field. However, the rebels' ship is damaged and they are forced to jettison towards the forbidden planet of Yavin with rocket packs. On Yavin, they travel on "jet-sticks" made from their rocket packs, until they are attacked by giant furry aliens who capture the princess and the bureaucrats and sell them to an Imperial platoon. Skywalker is almost killed, but one of the aliens helps to take him to an old farmer who know where the Imperial outpost is. After an attack on the outpost, the general and the boys learn that the princess has been taken to Alderaan, a "city-planet" and the capitol of the Empire. After rigorous training, Skywalker and the young rebels man a squadron of fighter ships, and disguised as Imperial rangers they manage to reach the prison complex of Alderaan. They free the princess, but an alarm goes off and a few of the boys are killed before the group is able to escape to the friendly planet of Ophuchi. There, everyone (including the bureaucrats) are rewarded at a ceremony, as the princess reveals her true goddess-like self.

TL;DR: It's basically a carbon copy of The Hidden Fortress, where General Luke Skywalker is a grizzled old man taking a princess to safety, and accompanying them are a couple of marooned Imperial bureaucrats. There is an astroid belt scene, jet packs, they have to rescue the princess and they are rewarded at the end.


TWO: Rough Draft - May 1974 "The Star Wars"

The Jedi-Bendu warriors served the Empire for many millennia, before rebelling against the new corrupted emperor. Hunted down and killed by the Knights of Sith (a sinister rival sect), the Jedi are now all but extinct and a New Galactic Empire has arisen.

Kane Starkiller, a Jedi-Bendu master, is in hiding on the Fourth Moon of Utapau with his two sons Annikin and Deak, when a Sith warrior finds them and Deak is killed. The surviving Starkillers head to the Aquilae system, where they are met by Kane's old Jedi friend, General Luke Skywalker. Kane, whose war-battered body is a concoction of artificial limbs, knows that he is dying, and persuades Luke to become Annikin's Jedi teacher. He then travels to the city of Gordon, leaving his son with Skywalker and the King of Aquilae. Clieg Whitsun, a rebel spy on the emperor's planet of Alderaan, has learned that an Imperial fleet, led by General Darth Vader and Governor Crispin Hoedaack, is about to conquer Aquilae with a "death star" space fortress. Rebel fighters are sent out to stop the attack, but the Aquilaean king is killed, and instead of Princess Leia (the rightful heir), a corrupt senator takes over, surrendering the planet to the Empire.

Annikin, Luke and Whitsun, joined by Artwo Detwo and See Threepio (two bickering robots who have escaped from the space fortress), bring Leia and her two younger brothers to the spaceport at Gordon, from where they can reach safety. After a fight at a cantina, where Skywalker uses his "lasersword" to kill his antagonists, the group meet up with Kane and his alien friend Han Solo who have arranged transport to a friendly planet. They need a power unit for suspended animation in order to get past Imperial scanners, and Kane heroically rips one from his body, causing his death. After avoiding a trap set by Vader and Prince Valorum (the black Knight of the Sith), the rebels are pursued into space, where the arguing Leia and Annikin realize that they love each other. Their craft is damaged in an asteroid field and Whitsun dies as it explodes, but the others abandon ship in time and land on the jungle planet of Yavin, where Leia is captured by alien trappers. Annikin tries to rescue her, but only succeeds in freeing five "Wookees" (huge, grey and furry beasts), and Leia eventually ends up in the hands of the Empire.

After a tip from two anthropologists, the rebels and the Wookee tribe (including Prince Chewbacca) attack an Imperial outpost, and a forest battle ensues. When he learns that Leia is held captive aboard the space fortress, General Skywalker starts training the Wookees to fly fighter ships in order to conquer the death star. Annikin is sceptical of the plan and gets onto the fortress (together with Artwo) on a mission of his own, dressed as an Imperial "skyraider", but he is soon captured and tortured by General Vader. Valorum sees this and realizes that the Imperials are completely without honour and codes, and that he has more in common with the young Jedi than with the emperor. Turning his back on the Empire, he frees both Annikin and Leia, and they escape down a garbage chute. After almost being crushed in the garbage receptacle, Valorum, Leia, Annikin, and Artwo manage to abandon the station just before the Wookees destroy it, killing both Vader and Governor Hoedaack. Back in her throne room, Queen Leia honours the heroes (including Valorum), and Annikin is appointed new Lord Protector of Aquilae.

TL;DR: It's very dense but...the Jedi and the Sith become a thing except here the story is one of a father, Kane Starkiller and his two sons Annikin and Deak. Kane is killed by a sith lord and the sons go off on a mission to avenge him. To help them is their father's friend, General Luke Skywalker and trains Annikin to become a Jedi. There are some politics between General Darth Vader and Princess Leia. The brothers are helped by a couple of robots, there are 'laserswords', astroid belt, Wookies, battle in a forest and the Wookies blow up the base killing Vader and another baddie.


THREE: Second Draft - January 1975 "The Adventures of the Starkiller (Episode One): "The Star Wars" "

Once there was a holy man called the Skywalker who discovered an energy field which could influence the destiny of all living things. Known as "the force of others", it consists of a good half (the Ashla), which the Skywalker came to know, and an evil part (the Bogan) which he was able to resist. His powers grew strong, helping him to found the Republic Galactica, but since the Bogan can bring much suffering in the hands of someone weak, he entrusted his secret only to his twelve children.

For many thousand years, the descendants of the Skywalker (known as the Jedi Bendu of the Ashla) served the force of others and brought peace to the galaxy. As the Republic grew, however, the Great Senate became corrupted, and the Jedi who interfered were denounced as traitors. Wars and terrorism increased to the point where citizens welcomed a police state, and the tyrannical First Galactic Empire was born. A Jedi named Darklighter fell victim to the Bogan, teaching its evil ways to a pirate clan known as the Black Knights of the Sith, who became Imperial servants and hunted down and killed most of the Jedi. Now, a growing rebel Alliance led by the Starkiller (a surviving Jedi) has won a crucial victory over the Imperial fleet, but the Bogan is very strong, weakening the old Jedi. However, according to the prophecies, a saviour shall come – known as "the son of the suns".

Deak and Clieg, sons of the Starkiller, are on their way to their brother Luke on the planet Utapau, sent by their father to retrieve the diamond-like "Kiber Crystal" which a Jedi can use to intensify either side of the force a hundred fold. However, their ship is boarded by Lord Darth Vader (a Black Knight of the Sith) and his stormtroopers, and Clieg is killed. Vader believes that Deak is the last son of the Starkiller, and as Deak wears his father's crest, the Lord takes for granted that the Starkiller is dead, and that he has altered destiny by capturing "the son of the suns". Vader orders the attack of the rebel base on Ogana Major, not knowing that Artoo Detoo and See Threepio, two of Deak's robots (or "droids"), have escaped to Utapau in order to bring a message to Luke. After a run-in with some filthy "Jawa" scavengers, they reach the farm where Luke lives with his two younger brothers Biggs and Windy, his Uncle Owen Lars and Aunt Beru, and their daughter Leia. Luke has never met his legendary father, and when he learns that he must bring the crystal to him he feels intimidated. Owen has taught Luke the ways of a skilled warrior (including the "laser sword"), but the spiritual ways of the Jedi can be taught only by his father.

Accepting his destiny, Luke takes the crystal and leaves with the droids for the spaceport at Mos Eisley. There, Luke is forced to use his laser sword against three drunken creatures in a cantina, impressing Han Solo (who claims to be a starpilot) and his companion Chewbacca (a "Wookiee" creature), who offer Luke passage to Ogana Major for a huge sum of money. Han, who is merely a cabin boy, fakes a reactor failure on board his Captain Oxus's ship, tricking Oxus (and the crewman Jabba the Hutt) into evacuating. Han and Chewbacca, together with the ship's science officer Montross Holdaack, then lift off with Luke and the droids. They reach Ogana Major only to find it completely destroyed.

Believing his father is dead, Luke assures Han that his brother Deak will provide payment for the passage – but they will have to rescue him from the Imperial dungeons of Alderaan. Approaching Alderaan, they hide in secret compartments as the ship is towed inside the Imperial city. Their ship is searched without result, as Han and Luke take out two troopers and steal their uniforms. Montross stays behind as Han, Luke, Chewbacca (posing as a prisoner), and the droids leave for the detention area. They find the tortured Deak, and after escaping a horrible dungeon monster, Chewbacca manages to bring him back to the hangar. Luke and Han, however, are cornered by Sith knights and forced to jump down a debris chute, ending up in a garbage room, where they are about to be crushed when the droids rescue them. They reach the ship and blast off into space, defeating their pursuers in a dogfight.

As Luke uses the Kiber Crystal to heal his brother, he receives a mental message from his father, telling him to come to the new rebel base on the fourth moon of Yavin. On the jungle moon, Luke meets his wizened old father for the first time, but the "Death Star" (the battle station which destroyed Ogana Major) is approaching, and Luke's Jedi training will have to wait. An assault on the station is organized, but Han, content with his momentous reward, leaves with Chewbacca and Montross, refusing to help. With Threepio and the ranger Bail Antilles as his gunners, Luke pilots one of the rebel ships attacking the Death Star, while his father uses the crystal to fight the Bogan. Sensing the Ashla, Lord Vader realizes that the Starkiller is alive, and joins the battle in his own fighter. He is just about to destroy Luke's ship, when Han reappears, sending the Sith knight to his doom. In a final attempt, both Threepio and Antilles manage to hit the station's weak point, reducing the mighty fortress to space dust. Back at the base, the heroes are greeted by the Starkiller who praises their victory as the start of the revolution.

TL; DR: The Force now makes an appearance (called 'The Force of Other') which has a good side, 'The Ashla' and an evil side called 'The Bogan'. The Force of Others was discovered by a wise old man named Skywalker who entrusted it to his 12 children. So this started the lineage of the Jedi who were supposed to guard this power. 1000 generations later they were killed by a betrayer Jedi, Darklighter. But there's a rebel alliance led by Starkiller and this story is about his three sons, one of whom is named Luke. They go looking for a Kiber Crystal that will intensify the force powers, but their ship is boarded by Lord Vader and Luke's brother is killed. After that, it follows the same beats as Episode 4: Luke has a couple of robots and the crystal and goes to Mos Eisley and needs transport to rescue his other brother from prison. He gets help from Han Solo and a Wookie. He says his brother will pay for the fare when they arrive. They rescue his brother from the prison and Luke uses the crystal to find the rebel base. They go to that planet and then they blow up the Death Star.


FOUR: The Third Draft - August 1975 "The Star Wars: From the Adventures of Luke Starkiller"

The Republic Galactica is dead – ruthless trader barons have replaced democracy with the First Galactic Empire. The Jedi knights were the guardians of peace in the galaxy for more than a thousand years, but now they are all but extinct, destroyed by the Emperor's agents: the Dark Lords of the Sith. The Jedi and the Sith are both users of "the Force of Others", an energy field which controls one's actions, yet obeys one's commands. Two sides of the Force are always present: a positive side, which the Jedi store in themselves, and a negative side (called the Bogan), which is used by the Sith. Either side can be amplified using a "Kiber Crystal", but all known crystals have fallen in the hands of the Dark Lords. However, Rebel Armies have won a crushing victory over the Imperial Starfleet, and the Emperor – afraid of losing control of the Outland systems – has sent his most ferocious Dark Lord to find and destroy the rebels.

Above the planet of Utapau, stormtroopers led by Darth Vader (a Sith Lord and right hand of the Emperor) overtake a rebel spaceship, and conduct a search for the stolen plans to the Empire's "Death Star" battle station. A young rebel princess called Leia Organa is captured by the Imperials, but she refuses to reveal the whereabouts of the information. A young farm boy named Luke Starkiller has seen the space battle from Utapau's wasteland with his "electrobinoculars", but when he tells his friends at Anchorhead about it, they dismiss it as a fantasy. Luke is deeply impressed by (and jealous of) his best friend Biggs Darklighter who has graduated from the academy, becoming a startrooper cadet.

Before the princess was captured, two robots named See Threepio (a tall "Human Cyborg relations droid") and Artoo Detoo (a short, beeping triped) abandoned the rebel ship, crashing in the Utapau desert. Artoo carries the Death Star plans and a message from Leia in his innards as the two "droids" are captured by "Jawa" scavengers and taken to the Lars homestead where Luke lives with his Aunt Beru and Uncle Owen. The Jawas peddle the robots to Owen, and Luke decides to apply to the academy now that they have two extra droids on the farm. When it turns out that his academy savings were spent on the robots, Luke wishes his late Jedi father were there.

Cleaning Artoo, he stumbles upon the hologram message, in which Leia wants the droids delivered to Organa Major and says that she has been taken to Alderaan. Luke runs away from home with the droids in order to get help from General Ben Kenobi, a Jedi knight his father had told him about. After being attacked by barbaric "Tusken Raiders", Luke is found by old Ben who claims he has become too old for adventures, proving his point by angrily cracking open his artificial arm. After some thought, Ben changes his mind, but since he has little Force left in him, he starts teaching Luke about the Force of Others as they leave with the droids for Mos Eisley spaceport. On Alderaan, Vader and his fellow Sith Lords feel something old awakening, strengthening the Force. After using his "laser-sword" to defend Luke against some creatures at a Mos Eisley cantina, Ben and his friends follow a furry "Wookiee" called Chewbacca to a nearby docking bay where they are introduced to a cocky starpilot named Han Solo who agrees to take them to Organa Major for a considerable amount of money. Han tricks some evil pirates – including Jabba the Hutt, the financier of his ship – into leaving the docking area, and as the heroes leave Mos Eisley, a furious Jabba is left behind.

Aboard the ship, Ben feels that something horrible has happened, and when they reach Organa Major they find the planet destroyed by the Empire. Now they must rescue the princess from the Imperial city of Alderaan in order to find the rebels. At Alderaan, their ship is boarded by stormtroopers, but only Threepio is found since the others are hiding in scan-proof lockers. Luke and Han steal stormtrooper uniforms, and with Chewbacca posing as their prisoner, they leave for the detention area, where they wreak havoc and find the tortured Leia. The groggy princess takes command of the situation, and after getting past a "Dia Nogu" monster, they jump down a chute leading to a garbage masher from where they are saved by the droids. Using the Force and his laser-sword, Ben has managed to retrieve one of the Kiber Crystals, but he meets Vader on his way back, and a duel commences. As the others make it to the hangar, Ben slams down a blast door between Vader and himself, and everybody manages to escape in Han's ship.

Four pursuing "tie" fighters are shot down, and the ship reaches the Masassi outpost on the fourth moon of Yavin, where the rebels plan an assault on the approaching Death Star (the plans inside Artoo give a "thermal exhaust port" as the station's weak point). Han leaves after receiving his money, while Luke claims a place in the battle as his reward. The attack has gone poorly for the rebels, when Luke approaches the target with the Kiber Crystal in his hand. Vader feels the Force in Luke and starts chasing him in his fighter, when suddenly, Han's ship turns up firing, causing the Sith Lord to collide with his wing man. As Vader's ship spins out of control, Luke fires a torpedo into the exhaust port and the Death Star explodes. At a ceremony back at the outpost, Luke, Artoo, Threepio, Han and Chewbacca are awarded gold medallions.

TL;DR: This is where the script begins to resemble the finished product. The main differences are that Tatooine is called Utapau, Uncle Owen is not very nice (he spends Luke's Academy money to purchase the droids from the Jawas). Luke actually has memories of his father and he remembers him telling him about General Kenobi. So Luke runs aways and finds Kenobi (who has an artificial arm) and they go off to rescue the Princess. Oh and the Kiber Crystal is still a thing that helps people channel the Force.


FIVE: Revised Fourth Draft "Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope – From the Journal of the Whills"

There is a civil war between the evil Galactic Empire and a Rebel Alliance. In order to crush its opponents, the Empire has constructed the "Death Star" – a space fortress capable of destroying planets – but the Rebels have managed to steal secret plans to the station, and now, the Rebel Princess Leia Organa is on her way home to Alderaan with the stolen information.

Above Tatooine, Leia's ship is overtaken by an Imperial Stardestroyer. Leia is captured by Darth Vader (the Emperor's Dark Lord of the Sith), but his stormtroopers do not find the plans. Artoo-Detoo and See-Threepio, two Rebel robots (or "droids"), abandon the ship in a lifepod, crashing in the Tatooine desert. Imperials locate the pod, but the data is not there – the robots have been captured by "Jawa" scavengers. Luke Skywalker has spotted the space battle with his "electrobinoculars", but his friends at Anchorhead do not believe him. Luke's best friend Biggs Darklighter is the first mate on a space frigate, but as an Academy graduate he is likely to be drafted into the Imperial Starfleet, thus he has decided to jump ship and join the Rebellion. The Jawas' "Sandcrawler" arrives at the farm where Luke lives with his Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru, and the two droids are sold to Owen. Luke is cleaning Artoo when a hologram of Leia appears, begging for the help of an Obi-Wan Kenobi. Luke wonders if she means the hermit Ben Kenobi, but Owen claims that Ben is dead. Owen further upsets Luke by telling him that he cannot go to the Academy since he is needed at the farm.

Meanwhile, Artoo has escaped, and Luke and Threepio leave in a "Landspeeder" in search for him. Upon finding Artoo, they are attacked by vicious "Tusken Raiders", but the creatures are chased away by an old man who turns out to be Ben (Obi-Wan) Kenobi. At Ben's dwelling, Luke receives his father's "lightsaber", learning that his father and Ben were Jedi Knights. The Jedi served as peace keepers of the Old Republic, but were hunted and killed as the Empire grew. According to Ben, Darth Vader, a pupil of his, was seduced by the dark side of "the Force" (an energy field which binds the galaxy together) and murdered Luke's father. Leia's hologram tells Ben about her capture and asks him to deliver Artoo to her father on Alderaan, since the droid contains vital information. Luke declines to follow Ben to Alderaan, but agrees to take him as far as Anchorhead. On their way, they find the Jawas killed by what seem to be Imperial troopers. Luke drives home, fearing for the lives of Owen and Beru, but only their smouldering remains are left.

Meeting up with Ben, Luke says that he will go to Alderaan, learn about the Force, and become a Jedi. At Mos Eisley Spaceport, Ben uses the Force to get past Imperial guards, and when Luke is threatened by some hideous creatures in a cantina, the old Jedi shows his lightsaber skills. Han Solo (captain of a ship called the Millennium Falcon) and Chewbacca (his "Wookiee" co-pilot) agree to take the group to Alderaan if they are well paid, and Luke and his friends leave to sell the speeder. Han avoids getting killed by a bounty hunter at the cantina, but back at his ship he is confronted by the mercenary's employer – Jabba the Hut. Solo is heavily in debt to Jabba, and the alien pirate threatens to put a large prize on Han's head if he does not pay him soon. The Empire is on their trail, but Luke, Ben, the droids, Han, and Chewbacca manage to escape into hyperspace with the Falcon.

On the Death Star, Vader and the Grand Moff Tarkin (a governor), tired of Leia's loyalty, order the destruction of Alderaan. During Luke's lightsaber practise, Ben feels a sudden disturbance in the Force, and as they reach Alderaan, the planet is gone. Without realizing it, they approach the Death Star, and their ship is towed aboard the station with a tractor beam. The Falcon is searched without result since the crew is hiding in smuggling compartments. Han and Luke steal trooper uniforms, and the group con their way into a command office where Artoo locates the tractor beam's power source. Ben leaves to shut it down, while Artoo notices that Leia is held aboard the station.

Luke and Han leave for the detention area with Chewbacca posing as their prisoner. After some fighting, Leia is freed from her cell, but they are cornered by Imperials and forced to slide down a garbage chute. After almost being drowned by a tentacled "Dia Nogu" and crushed by moving walls, they are released from the garbage room by the droids and fight their way back to the ship. The tractor beam is shut down, but Ben encounters Vader, and a lightsaber duel commences.

Realizing that the others are safe, Ben ceases fighting and is struck by the Dark Lord. Only the cloak is left of Ben as the Millennium Falcon shoots down the pursuing "TIE" fighters and heads for the Rebel outpost of Massassi on the fourth moon of Yavin, where Luke is reunited with Biggs. Han leaves with his reward, as Luke, Biggs, and the Rebel pilots attack the Death Star. Most Rebels, including Biggs, have been killed when Luke's "X-wing" ship approaches the weak point which was found using Artoo's plans. Vader, in his personal ship, is about to fire on Luke, when the Falcon turns up, sending the Dark Lord spinning into space. Luke hears Ben's voice and uses the Force to hit the small target. Tarkin and his battle station are reduced to space dust, while the heroes are rewarded by the princess back at the base.

TL;DR: Yeah, it's basically Episode 4.
 
Last edited:

show me your skeleton

#1 Bugsnax Fan
Member
Oct 28, 2017
15,637
skeleton land
Makingofstarwars.jpg


highly recommend this book which looks in to all the known drafts of the original film.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
Marcia Lucas was critical to editing both the script and the films for the first trilogy, and you can see where the prequels managed to go offrails without her keeping there to keep George's worst impulses in check.
 

Slime

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,971
I'd love to see Disney do something like what Dark Horse did with the "The Star Wars" comic and adapt it into a movie or series for Disney+. Could be a neat "Elseworlds"-type project.

22833.jpg
 

Radogol

Member
Nov 9, 2017
370
I'd love to see Disney do something like what Dark Horse did with the "The Star Wars" comic and adapt it into a movie or series for Disney+. Could be a neat "Elseworlds"-type project.

22833.jpg

It really is an interesting read. Some elements that later resurfaced in the prequels are present.

An interesting wrinkle is that Jedi and Sith are basically rival sects, with the former being against the Empire and the latter supporting it. However, in a badass finale, the Jedi protagonist and the Sith antagonist join forces to battle a secular villain, brought together by their common belief in the Force of Others. I thought that was pretty neat.
 

Deleted member 7051

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,254
Oh my god can you guys just, for one fucking day, not make threads defending the sequel trilogy as if your damn life depended on it?

I swear every fucking day there's a new thread that exists to just say "if you don't like the sequel trilogy you're wrong".

Yes, movies evolve as the script is developed further and refined. Big fucking surprise. We even have comments from Alec Guinness confirming George Lucas was editing the script even as they were filming A New Hope.

So what? You guys are so damn eager to put the sequel trilogy on a pedestal to protect it from any criticisms you can't even see that that is nothing at all like the structure of the sequel trilogy.

George Lucas was heavily involved in the scripts and overall story for the original trilogy. The only one he didn't directly write himself was Empire, but that was still produced from the story he wanted to tell.

The original trilogy had a singular vision, even if it was always evolving. That is totally different to the structure of the sequel trilogy, where each director literally does whatever THEY think is the interesting way to take THEIR movie.

As Mark Hamill said, the sequel trilogy is a relay race. Once you've done your movie, your part is over. Abrams didn't get involved at all in The Last Jedi besides reading the script and Johnson didn't get involved at all in Rise of Skywalker besides presumably reading the script.

Why you guys are always trying so hard to make excuses for that I have no idea. It was a risky move by Disney to push the sequel trilogy out faster and it didn't work. Ironically enough the people who try so hard to make excuses for it are the ones who are also super eager to see Rian Johnson write and direct more than one successive Star Wars movie.

Make up your damn minds, will you?
 

Bradbury

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,856
Oh my god can you guys just, for one fucking day, not make threads defending the sequel trilogy as if your damn life depended on it?

I swear every fucking day there's a new thread that exists to just say "if you don't like the sequel trilogy you're wrong".

Yes, movies evolve as the script is developed further and refined. Big fucking surprise. We even have comments from Alec Guinness confirming George Lucas was editing the script even as they were filming A New Hope.

So what? You guys are so damn eager to put the sequel trilogy on a pedestal to protect it from any criticisms you can't even see that that is nothing at all like the structure of the sequel trilogy.

George Lucas was heavily involved in the scripts and overall story for the original trilogy. The only one he didn't directly write himself was Empire, but that was still produced from the story he wanted to tell.

The original trilogy had a singular vision, even if it was always evolving. That is totally different to the structure of the sequel trilogy, where each director literally does whatever THEY think is the interesting way to take THEIR movie.

As Mark Hamill said, the sequel trilogy is a relay race. Once you've done your movie, your part is over. Abrams didn't get involved at all in The Last Jedi besides reading the script and Johnson didn't get involved at all in Rise of Skywalker besides presumably reading the script.

Why you guys are always trying so hard to make excuses for that I have no idea. It was a risky move by Disney to push the sequel trilogy out faster and it didn't work. Ironically enough the people who try so hard to make excuses for it are the ones who are also super eager to see Rian Johnson write and direct more than one successive Star Wars movie.

Make up your damn minds, will you?
that´s a total normal response about a fun thread detailing how SW changed during it´s inception
Dude chill out, Oh my god can you guys just, for one fucking day, not make a derailing post attacking the sequel trilogy as if your damn life depended on it?

I swear every fucking day there's a new post that exists to just say "if you like the sequel trilogy you're wrong".
 

Lynd

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,440
It really is an interesting read. Some elements that later resurfaced in the prequels are present.

An interesting wrinkle is that Jedi and Sith are basically rival sects, with the former being against the Empire and the latter supporting it. However, in a badass finale, the Jedi protagonist and the Sith antagonist join forces to battle a secular villain, brought together by their common belief in the Force of Others. I thought that was pretty neat.

Hm, that last paragraph could maybe be along the lines of what's gonna happen in RoS
 

Deleted member 7051

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,254
that´s a total normal response about a fun thread detailing how SW changed during it´s inception
Dude chill out, Oh my god can you guys just, for one fucking day, not make a derailing post attacking the sequel trilogy as if your damn life depended on it?

I swear every fucking day there's a new post that exists to just say "if you like the sequel trilogy you're wrong".

The first line of this very thread is "So there's been a lot of people complaining about the lack of planning on the part of Lucasfilm with the Sequel Trilogy" and then it goes into, yet again, this stupid argument that because a movie had multiple drafts - which is totally normal - that is somehow exactly the same as three movies with three different directors who don't coordinate their movies at all.

You say I'm telling people they can't like the sequel trilogy, which is daft considering I like The Force Awakens and even some decisions in The Last Jedi, yet you seem oblivious to the fact that "diehard" fans of the sequel trilogy adamantly refuse to acknowledge even the smallest flaws and make excuses for literally everything, even going so far as to make entire threads just to "debunk" them. Like this one.
 

Rendering...

Member
Oct 30, 2017
19,089
The more I learn about George Lucas's early plans for Star Wars, the more I'm convinced that the quality of the Original Trilogy was a combination of dumb luck and Lucas's highly qualified collaborators. There's no damn way those movies would have amounted to anything if Lucas had the kind of control he did for the Prequel Trilogy.

Marcia Lucas was critical to editing both the script and the films for the first trilogy, and you can see where the prequels managed to go offrails without her keeping there to keep George's worst impulses in check.
Yep.

Oh my god can you guys just, for one fucking day, not make threads defending the sequel trilogy as if your damn life depended on it?

I swear every fucking day there's a new thread that exists to just say "if you don't like the sequel trilogy you're wrong".

Yes, movies evolve as the script is developed further and refined. Big fucking surprise. We even have comments from Alec Guinness confirming George Lucas was editing the script even as they were filming A New Hope.

So what? You guys are so damn eager to put the sequel trilogy on a pedestal to protect it from any criticisms you can't even see that that is nothing at all like the structure of the sequel trilogy.

George Lucas was heavily involved in the scripts and overall story for the original trilogy. The only one he didn't directly write himself was Empire, but that was still produced from the story he wanted to tell.

The original trilogy had a singular vision, even if it was always evolving. That is totally different to the structure of the sequel trilogy, where each director literally does whatever THEY think is the interesting way to take THEIR movie.

As Mark Hamill said, the sequel trilogy is a relay race. Once you've done your movie, your part is over. Abrams didn't get involved at all in The Last Jedi besides reading the script and Johnson didn't get involved at all in Rise of Skywalker besides presumably reading the script.

Why you guys are always trying so hard to make excuses for that I have no idea. It was a risky move by Disney to push the sequel trilogy out faster and it didn't work. Ironically enough the people who try so hard to make excuses for it are the ones who are also super eager to see Rian Johnson write and direct more than one successive Star Wars movie.

Make up your damn minds, will you?
This is a hilarious inversion of reality. It's very bold to play the victim when any threads made to defend the Sequels can only be a response to the haters who have made it their mission to take over most Star Wars threads, chime in about TLJ every time Rian Johnson's name comes up, and often derail threads that at some point touch on Disney, Star Wars, or a Sequel Trilogy actor.

After years of this bullshit, it's about time the rational side took a more active role in the conversation. I've had enough of people spinning fables and making obscene exaggerations about the sequels just because they don't like them.
 
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Deleted member 1627

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Makingofstarwars.jpg


highly recommend this book which looks in to all the known drafts of the original film.
Read this book... it's utterly insane the number of reworks and details in here that didn't make it to the screen or pop up again in Empire or Jedi. A real eye opener, and I'm not even halfway through the damn thing. It's a really amazing book (series of, in fact, I have the Empire and Jedi ones too!).
 

Beef Supreme

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Oct 25, 2017
5,073
Marcia Lucas was critical to editing both the script and the films for the first trilogy, and you can see where the prequels managed to go offrails without her keeping there to keep George's worst impulses in check.
And he gives her no credit for it. I was watching Empire of Dreams the other day and was stunned by the lack of virtually no mention of her practically saving the film in editing. There was one small mention of her, but it was just like an off hand mention. Like she was "borrowed" and just helped the movie along. It was all a bunch of George Lucas ball washing.
 

roguesquirrel

The Fallen
Oct 29, 2017
5,488
Oh my god can you guys just, for one fucking day, not make threads defending the sequel trilogy as if your damn life depended on it?

I swear every fucking day there's a new thread that exists to just say "if you don't like the sequel trilogy you're wrong".

Yes, movies evolve as the script is developed further and refined. Big fucking surprise. We even have comments from Alec Guinness confirming George Lucas was editing the script even as they were filming A New Hope.

So what? You guys are so damn eager to put the sequel trilogy on a pedestal to protect it from any criticisms you can't even see that that is nothing at all like the structure of the sequel trilogy.

George Lucas was heavily involved in the scripts and overall story for the original trilogy. The only one he didn't directly write himself was Empire, but that was still produced from the story he wanted to tell.

The original trilogy had a singular vision, even if it was always evolving. That is totally different to the structure of the sequel trilogy, where each director literally does whatever THEY think is the interesting way to take THEIR movie.

As Mark Hamill said, the sequel trilogy is a relay race. Once you've done your movie, your part is over. Abrams didn't get involved at all in The Last Jedi besides reading the script and Johnson didn't get involved at all in Rise of Skywalker besides presumably reading the script.

Why you guys are always trying so hard to make excuses for that I have no idea. It was a risky move by Disney to push the sequel trilogy out faster and it didn't work. Ironically enough the people who try so hard to make excuses for it are the ones who are also super eager to see Rian Johnson write and direct more than one successive Star Wars movie.

Make up your damn minds, will you?
dont worry don quixote, youll get those windmills yet
 

Psittacus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,937
What I've always found fascinating is how often they dip back into these scripts to name things or bring back concepts, it's really neat.
  • Bendu is a Force sensitive being that shows up in Rebels
  • Bendu refers to the light and dark sides of the Force as the Ashla and Bogan
  • Utapau finally makes it as a planet name in Revenge of the Sith
  • Cliegg Whitsun is split into Cliegg Lars and Beru Whitesun in Attack of the Clones
  • Valorum gets reused for the Chancellor in The Phantom Menance
  • Darklighter gets repurposed during the revisions as Biggs Darklighter's name
  • Montross is the name of Jango Fett's rival in Legends, and is reused as a planet name in Rebels
  • Leia's home planet of Ogana Major eventually morphs into her surname Organa
  • Bail Antilles is reused as the name of one of the nominees for Chancellor in The Phantom Menance
  • The names Sith and Tusken Raider aren't mentioned on-screen until The Phantom Menance

And he gives her no credit for it. I was watching Empire of Dreams the other day and was stunned by the lack of virtually no mention of her practically saving the film in editing. There was one small mention of her, but it was just like an off hand mention. Like she was "borrowed" and just helped the movie along. It was all a bunch of George Lucas ball washing.
The worst part is that not only is it Lucas ball washing, it massively downplays the iteration inherent in the creative process
 

Forkball

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,941
Yup, it's well-known that Star Wars could've very easily been terrible right out of the gate. It really shows the power of collaboration. It's amazing how many key decisions in the OT reads like falling ass backwards into greatness.
 

Deleted member 7051

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The more I learn about George Lucas's early plans for Star Wars, the more I'm convinced that the quality of the Original Trilogy was a combination of dumb luck and Lucas's highly qualified collaborators. There's no damn way those movies would have amounted to anything if Lucas had the kind of control he did for the Prequel Trilogy.

Even if you extend past Star Wars to other Lucasfilm properties like Indiana Jones, the recurring theme seems to be that George Lucas is actually really good at coming up with stories and concepts and ideas, but he desperately needs someone to refine them into something less... messy.

Even his very first movie, the one with Robert Duvall, has stood the test of time on the strength of its ideas and American Graffiti started off a whole craze of 50s style movies and TV shows.

He's nowhere near the failure people on this forum would like to paint him.
 

Palette Swap

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
11,225
Marcia Lucas was critical to editing both the script and the films for the first trilogy, and you can see where the prequels managed to go offrails without her keeping there to keep George's worst impulses in check.
All the supplementary material I've seen on his projects, whether it's Star Wars or Indiana Jones, points in that direction. Lucas is a visionary, in that he will outline great high concepts and evocative worlds that have a unique ability to resonate, but he needs others to nail the minute execution of these, because it requires another kind of craftsmanship.
 

Psittacus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,937
All the supplementary material I've seen on his projects, whether it's Star Wars or Indiana Jones, points in that direction. Lucas is a visionary, in that he will outline great high concepts and evocative worlds that have a unique ability to resonate, but he needs others to nail the minute execution of these, because it requires another kind of craftsmanship.
Dave Filoni has said a lot of things to this effect regarding Clone Wars. Well the nicer half of those things anyway.
 

Rendering...

Member
Oct 30, 2017
19,089
Even if you extend past Star Wars to other Lucasfilm properties like Indiana Jones, the recurring theme seems to be that George Lucas is actually really good at coming up with stories and concepts and ideas, but he desperately needs someone to refine them into something less... messy.

Even his very first movie, the one with Robert Duvall, has stood the test of time on the strength of its ideas and American Graffiti started off a whole craze of 50s style movies and TV shows.

He's nowhere near the failure people on this forum would like to paint him.
I think he's an excellent idea man, but like you said, he needs people who can refine those ideas. He's a world class writer when it comes to brainstorming stories and concepts, for sure.

I wish he had more perspective on his limitations. For example, dialogue writing. Or pulling the best performances out of actors. There's absolutely no shame in being a specialist. I would think one of the greatest joys of filmmaking, for someone in George Lucas's position, would be the chance to work closely with master artists and craftspeople -- experts in each department.

George could have worked with the best writers, and hired the best directors. I know he has a strong sense of ownership over Star Wars, but didn't he see how the contributions of other people made the OT better?
 

admiraltaftbar

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Biggs' full name is Biggs Darklighter? That's amazing.
Realizing Biggs dies at the trench run the way he does messed me up as a kid. Dude is Luke's best friend who he looked up to and he gets unceremoniously blown away by Vader with only a small reaction from Luke. I guess he decided he likes Wedge more.
 

Deleted member 7051

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I think he's an excellent idea man, but like you said, he needs people who can refine those ideas. He's a world class writer when it comes to brainstorming stories and concepts, for sure.

I wish he had more perspective on his limitations. For example, dialogue writing. Or pulling the best performances out of actors. There's absolutely no shame in being a specialist. I would think one of the greatest joys of filmmaking, for someone in George Lucas's position, would be the chance to work closely with master artists and craftspeople -- experts in each department.

George could have worked with the best writers, and hired the best directors. I know he has a strong sense of ownership over Star Wars, but didn't he see how the contributions of other people made the OT better?

He didn't have any choice. He asked some of the best directors in the world to come and produce the prequel trilogy and he would have happily given them all the budget they needed, but they all refused. They all saw the original trilogy as an impossible thing to live up to and didn't want to be "the guy that made the first bad Star Wars movie" and, really, they were right.

We've had five mainline Star Wars movies since 1999 and none of them have been able to live up to the original trilogy. You've got people who grew up with Star Wars now making Star Wars movies and even they can't give us more than material based off what made Star Wars special for them personally, which is why the sequel trilogy is so completely lacking in new ideas.

It's not a stretch to say the only person who should be providing the story behind Star Wars is George Lucas himself. Bring in whoever you want to write the script based off that story and whoever you want to direct that script, but it really feels like Star Wars is missing that creative spark now Lucas isn't involved.

I mean, the most popular Star Wars media right now is The Mandalorian and the only reason anyone seems to like that is because they made a baby Yoda. Even before it came out folks were only interested in it because the main character was a Mandalorian.
 

Deleted member 5666

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It's not a stretch to say the only person who should be providing the story behind Star Wars is George Lucas himself.
That is not only a stretch that is absolutely absurd.

The Mandalorian, TFA, TLJ, Rogue One, Rebels, etc are all better than the prequels. And it isn't even close.

The Mandalorian and the only reason anyone seems to like that is because they made a baby Yoda.
Or maybe because it is a well done fun show that also happens to have a cute baby?

Not everyone is as negative and angry about everything as you are, if you haven't realized. Your refusal to even accept the fact that people genuinely enjoy post-Lucas content never ceases to baffle.
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
43,033
So, what you're saying is the the creator and ultimate curator/decision maker of STAR WARS had a lot of ideas which he would later rework into later films and spin offs? Almost like he had a general idea...a plan of what he wanted the series to be about and do?
 

BossAttack

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Oct 27, 2017
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He didn't have any choice. He asked some of the best directors in the world to come and produce the prequel trilogy and he would have happily given them all the budget they needed, but they all refused. They all saw the original trilogy as an impossible thing to live up to and didn't want to be "the guy that made the first bad Star Wars movie" and, really, they were right.

We've had five mainline Star Wars movies since 1999 and none of them have been able to live up to the original trilogy. You've got people who grew up with Star Wars now making Star Wars movies and even they can't give us more than material based off what made Star Wars special for them personally, which is why the sequel trilogy is so completely lacking in new ideas.

It's not a stretch to say the only person who should be providing the story behind Star Wars is George Lucas himself. Bring in whoever you want to write the script based off that story and whoever you want to direct that script, but it really feels like Star Wars is missing that creative spark now Lucas isn't involved.

I mean, the most popular Star Wars media right now is The Mandalorian and the only reason anyone seems to like that is because they made a baby Yoda. Even before it came out folks were only interested in it because the main character was a Mandalorian.

I mean, is any of this wrong?

I know you despite TLJ, but I will say Rian Johnson did his best to bring back that creative spark. It's why I want to see his own trilogy. But, so far every piece of material besides TLJ has lacked that spark.
 

Star-Lord

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Oct 25, 2017
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So, what you're saying is the the creator and ultimate curator/decision maker of STAR WARS had a lot of ideas which he would later rework into later films and spin offs? Almost like he had a general idea...a plan of what he wanted the series to be about and do?
What you said kind of counters each other, he had ideas that didnt work so he later implemented them way. That shows he didn't have a plan as you can tell the story change pretty huge and some aspects never made it into any film.
 

Serpens007

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I'm actually amazed how much of the stuff there ends up in the story in other stuff like The Clone Wars show or the Prequels
 

BossAttack

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Oct 27, 2017
43,033
What you said kind of counters each other, he had ideas that didnt work so he later implemented them way. That shows he didn't have a plan as you can tell the story change pretty huge and some aspects never made it into any film.

As the creator he had ideas of what the franchise should be about and where it should go. Who in Lucasfilm does that? Kennedy?
 
OP
OP
Blackpuppy

Blackpuppy

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Oct 28, 2017
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Let's try to avoid this thread devolving into a battle of the quality of Star Wars. My intention with this thread was to show that the creative process can take a lot of turns.

Also, people need to realize that George Lucas is a really great ideas person. There's a transcript of him, Speilberg and Kasdan I think all coming up with ideas for Raiders and the bulk of the good ones are coming from him.

And he also did the bulk of the script for Empire. People are quick to credit Leigh Brackett, but her draft was rejected and barely anything was used from it. Lucas kept her name on it because she died shortly after turning it in and he felt bad.

Lucas wrote the bulk of the screenplay and Lawrence Kasdan came in and refined all the dialogue.
 

DeltaRed

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Apr 27, 2018
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The more I learn about George Lucas's early plans for Star Wars, the more I'm convinced that the quality of the Original Trilogy was a combination of dumb luck and Lucas's highly qualified collaborators. There's no damn way those movies would have amounted to anything if Lucas had the kind of control he did for the Prequel Trilogy.
Bullshit. You can't call years of researching and rewriting the script dumb luck. He also nearly gave himself a heart attack from the stress and effort he put into making ANH. That is not luck.
 

Deleted member 7051

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Not everyone is as negative and angry about everything as you are, if you haven't realized. Your refusal to even accept the fact that people genuinely enjoy post-Lucas content never ceases to baffle.

The only baffling thing is your repeated and constant attempts to mischaracterise my arguments to twist them to your favour. If you don't like what I have to say, why don't you just block me instead of only ever replying to me to attack me?

Like saying I don't like "post-Lucas content", despite you full well knowing I loved Rebels, loved Rogue One, really liked The Force Awakens and even have a soft spot for Solo. For someone that you claim hates anything Star Wars after 2012 I seem to like an awful lot of it.

That's even more baffling than accusing me of being negative and angry about everything when you are also fully aware the only thing I get annoyed by these days is Star Wars fans such as yourself, who seem determined to ruin it for everyone that disagrees with you rather than just letting people like what they want to like.

I mean, how else am I s'posed to react to fans such as yourself who aggressively refuse to accept that the sequel trilogy isn't a flawless masterpiece and instead post thread after thread after thread trying to "debunk" any of the flaws anyone ever mentions?

One day I just hope you're able to move past this absurdly aggressive tribal attitude you have and just accept that it's actually normal for movies to be flawed and they aren't lesser for it and you aren't lesser for still enjoying them.

I like a lot of shit movies too but you don't see me posting threads to defend the stink.
 

Deleted member 7051

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I mean, is any of this wrong?

I know you despite TLJ, but I will say Rian Johnson did his best to bring back that creative spark. It's why I want to see his own trilogy. But, so far every piece of material besides TLJ has lacked that spark.

Oh I agree. I actually really like a lot of Rian Johnson's ideas and, despite not liking The Last Jedi overall, I'm very excited to see what he does with his own movies when he's not limited by what someone else wrote before.

Star Wars desperately needs someone like Rian Johnson but he was a terrible choice to direct the middle of a trilogy.
 

Aldo

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Mar 19, 2019
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Also worth mentioning is the low budget sequel that was written in case Star Wars flopped to re-utilize sets from the first and build ultra-cheap new ones. Few things were planned in advance, the big difference is that the entire OT had one man in charge. Yes he didn't even write TESB but he did handpick its screenwriter and supervise every aspect of it.
I'm a big fan of Lucas, he just needs to let people help him in the execution of his ideas.
 

DiipuSurotu

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Oct 25, 2017
53,148
Yes he didn't even write TESB but he did handpick its screenwriter and supervise every aspect of it.
Lucasfilm also supervised every aspect of the sequels. The only reason Rian Johnson managed to do what he wanted is because Lucasfilm agreed with what he wanted. On the other hand Lucasfilm didn't agree with what Colin Trevorrow had written for Episode IX.
 

Aldo

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Mar 19, 2019
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Lucasfilm also supervised every aspect of the sequels. The only reason Rian Johnson managed to do what he wanted is because Lucasfilm agreed with what he wanted. On the other hand Lucasfilm didn't agree with what Colin Trevorrow wrote for Episode IX.
"Lucasfilm" is a corporate entity, not an individual.
 

Orb

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More people need to read The Making of Star Wars for sure. Helps debunk a lot of myths that people still hold about the origins of the film / series despite the fact that the truth is fairly well documented at this point.
 

Aldo

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Mar 19, 2019
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And I believe that much like with TV shows, things work better when the person who generated the idea has the final word.
He did actually. Leigh Brackett's draft was rejected and Lucas decided to rewrite the whole thing and then he handed it to Kasdan who worked on the dialogue.
It's been a while since I read Brackett's script, but I remember most of the story beats were the same, or very similar. I'm going by memory, but I think Brackett sadly passed away before she could revise the script.
 

apocat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,065
Hey, this seems like a fun thread about the wild and wonderful revisions that the original Star Wars script went through before becoming the cultural juggernaut it eventually was to be. I think I remember there was a character seriously named Windy in one of the drafts. This could be a laug...

Oh my god can you guys just, for one fucking day, not make threads defending the sequel trilogy as if your damn life depended on it?

I swear every fucking day there's a new thread that exists to just say "if you don't like the sequel trilogy you're wrong".

Yes, movies evolve as the script is developed further and refined. Big fucking surprise. We even have comments from Alec Guinness confirming George Lucas was editing the script even as they were filming A New Hope.

So what? You guys are so damn eager to put the sequel trilogy on a pedestal to protect it from any criticisms you can't even see that that is nothing at all like the structure of the sequel trilogy.

George Lucas was heavily involved in the scripts and overall story for the original trilogy. The only one he didn't directly write himself was Empire, but that was still produced from the story he wanted to tell.

The original trilogy had a singular vision, even if it was always evolving. That is totally different to the structure of the sequel trilogy, where each director literally does whatever THEY think is the interesting way to take THEIR movie.

As Mark Hamill said, the sequel trilogy is a relay race. Once you've done your movie, your part is over. Abrams didn't get involved at all in The Last Jedi besides reading the script and Johnson didn't get involved at all in Rise of Skywalker besides presumably reading the script.

Why you guys are always trying so hard to make excuses for that I have no idea. It was a risky move by Disney to push the sequel trilogy out faster and it didn't work. Ironically enough the people who try so hard to make excuses for it are the ones who are also super eager to see Rian Johnson write and direct more than one successive Star Wars movie.

Make up your damn minds, will you?

Oh.

Oh no.
 
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