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Terminator: Dark Fate |OT| (Spoilers) No fate but what Jim & Tim make
- Thread starter VorpalNonsense
- Start date
I always assumed it was hard enough finding out who your enemy is, let alone where they or their parents/ancestors were at some exact moment in time so you can time travel and bump them off. Also you can't go too far back without running into McFly problems and having your actions that far back writing yourself out of history.
Maybe I didn't catch it, but did they specify what year Legion went online? Presumably a number of years before 2042, right?
Also curious how much time had passed from present day to when future Dani rescues teen Grace? I'm guesstimating sometime in the 2030s -- and if that's the case, I wished they did more to age up Natalia Reyes in that scene. Her looking exactly the way she did in the present (save for the cornrows, pfft) really took me out of the film.
Also curious how much time had passed from present day to when future Dani rescues teen Grace? I'm guesstimating sometime in the 2030s -- and if that's the case, I wished they did more to age up Natalia Reyes in that scene. Her looking exactly the way she did in the present (save for the cornrows, pfft) really took me out of the film.
Probably a lack of accurate records. They never knew who Johns father was, if they knew the names of Sarahs parents would they know accurately where and when they lived?
Hold on I'm confused; where did the T-800 come from at the start of the movie?
If they stopped Skynet in T2, there wouldn't be a future where it existed and sent a T-800 back.
If something else took it's place (which did; Legion) then it didn't make a Cyberdyne Systems terminator, it made it's own versions up to what is now a Rev9.
I guess the easy answer would be to say they didn't just send a T-1000 back in '95, or something I'm missing.
If they stopped Skynet in T2, there wouldn't be a future where it existed and sent a T-800 back.
If something else took it's place (which did; Legion) then it didn't make a Cyberdyne Systems terminator, it made it's own versions up to what is now a Rev9.
I guess the easy answer would be to say they didn't just send a T-1000 back in '95, or something I'm missing.
The way I understood it, is that once the units were sent back in time they are kinda stuck in limbo. Outside of any timeline. Like Sarah said, the T-800s came to complete a mission for a future that didn't exist anymore. Skynet must have eventually figured it had sent enough, that with it dealing with the humans all the time.
They would have had to have been sent back before the timeline changed to where skynet longer exists.
If skynet was really over, there would be no sending back skynet models, only legion models.
They don't really make that clear.
Think of it this way, once Skynet sends something back, it's outside of any possible timeline. It doesn't exist until it re-enters time. Despite Skynet being wiped out from existence, there was still a time where it was able to send Terminators back, and these units were in time stasis unnafected by Skynet's demise. Until they popped up and Carl sent Sarah after them
Eehhhhh this sounds like some wibbly wobbly timey wimey explanation.
There's never been any indication of, and I don't know if you literally mean; time stasis.
When the T-1000 and T-800 get sent back in T2 it was sent from a time where Judgement Day still could have happened, could have being the operative term.
They then stopped Skynet from ever existing, period, so much so the future where things get sent from is now Legion controlled because something else started judgement day. As far as we know from the film, Legion doesn't make T-800 models.
I don't think any movie has ever had that version of Skynet ever send something back after it had been defeated, only before; because that's how it should work.
I'm not trying to argue btw, I'm trying to understand if I seem a little combative :)
I've never watched any time-travel related media until this film and not understood it, mostly down to the specifics.
Even though it isn't real, most media can explain it. This seems out of the ordinary for Terminator.
That's exactly that James Cameron said in interviews. The point of this new trilogy is how to stop humanity from making new goddamn killer AIs. Otherwise it'll just keep happening over and over.
I wonder if in the next movie Dani will be leading an underground resistance group that is seen as terrorisim, with tech companies already manufacturing proto terminators to fight against Dani. Just wondering whether they can bring back Davis without going the time travel route again. Maybe someone found her remains and reverse engineer her into a full terminator.
She could've possibly been back in the third movie I'd say, playing herself before she got augmented.
But doesn't seem likely there'll be an sequels to this..
This movie is tracking to do worse than TG and is splitting the already small fanbase.
I think there won't be a new Terminator for a very long time. And when there is one it's again going to be the True sequel to Terminator 2....
They just need to stop the same story over and and over again. Terminator has nearly the same problem as Predator and Alien. All 3 have become trash movies just churned out.
I liked this a lot. The thing of Skynet having sent back more than one Terminator to target John in 1995 is a (retroactive) McGuffin, but so was John - a McGuffin to kill a McGuffin, fine by me. I'm happy with what it sets up.
I get some of the criticisms, but, unlike any of the others, it struck the right tonal balance and felt like a genuine sequel to T2; I think Linda Hamilton has been the single biggest miss in all that's been since 2003.
I find it curious that some people are so attached to John Connor and don't find Dani a plausible leader of the new timeline. In T1 he wasn't even a foetus, in T2 a wayward kid who - by the end of the film - had no reason to be anything but. They ended Skynet and he was no longer a leader of anything; the crux of the story in T1 & T2 was that of an ill-equipped mother-to-be (and subsequently mother) thrust into a battle to save her son; for her, changing the future became a by-product of that. I found the idea that her failure came after ending the very reason her son came into existence to be a very compelling one. John Connor was always a dead end after T2.
Yeah, you can argue that nothing since has been necessary - I'd say that T1 is the only truly essentially Terminator movie - but I'm happy for the story to continue in this way. It's a shame that its box office will be hit by having to follow some really rotten films, but I'm pleased to have something new that is worthy of the Terminator name. If they do decide to continue the franchise going forward, I'd like to see them take cues from the horror of T1 for a smaller scale (and by extension lower budget) continuation of Sarah & Dani's story.
I get some of the criticisms, but, unlike any of the others, it struck the right tonal balance and felt like a genuine sequel to T2; I think Linda Hamilton has been the single biggest miss in all that's been since 2003.
I find it curious that some people are so attached to John Connor and don't find Dani a plausible leader of the new timeline. In T1 he wasn't even a foetus, in T2 a wayward kid who - by the end of the film - had no reason to be anything but. They ended Skynet and he was no longer a leader of anything; the crux of the story in T1 & T2 was that of an ill-equipped mother-to-be (and subsequently mother) thrust into a battle to save her son; for her, changing the future became a by-product of that. I found the idea that her failure came after ending the very reason her son came into existence to be a very compelling one. John Connor was always a dead end after T2.
Yeah, you can argue that nothing since has been necessary - I'd say that T1 is the only truly essentially Terminator movie - but I'm happy for the story to continue in this way. It's a shame that its box office will be hit by having to follow some really rotten films, but I'm pleased to have something new that is worthy of the Terminator name. If they do decide to continue the franchise going forward, I'd like to see them take cues from the horror of T1 for a smaller scale (and by extension lower budget) continuation of Sarah & Dani's story.
Best action sequences?
The Grace vs Rev-9 fight in the factory and the subsequent highway chase were definitely my faves. The 3-on-1 fight with Sarah, Arnie and Grace against the Rev-9 at the end follows close behind.
The Grace vs Rev-9 fight in the factory and the subsequent highway chase were definitely my faves. The 3-on-1 fight with Sarah, Arnie and Grace against the Rev-9 at the end follows close behind.
It's not that wibbly-wobbly. Time travel in Dark Fate just operates under the notion that time loops and grandfather paradoxes are not possible. It's a less-often seen time travel principle in fiction, but it's not unheard of.
1/ In Timeline A, Skynet sends Terminators to different points in time to kill Sarah and John.
2/ Then, and only then, things happen in those different points in time, resulting in the nullification of Timeline A and the creation of a Timeline B.
There is no time loop here. Event 1 leads to Event 2. Event 2 doesn't loop back to Event 1 or erases it or anything; it doesn't work like that in Dark Fate.
Basically, in Dark Fate, if I were sent back to kill my grandfather, I wouldn't be erased from existence. The timeline where I was born would be erased, but not the time-traveling me.
This is why you have those T-800s popping out on the timeline (on Timeline B) despite their original timeline (Timeline A) having been nullified.
I also found it amusing how Grace gave no fucks and was just smacking civilians' heads into walls -- hard enough, apparently, to leave rather prominent blood stain splatters. Like damn, girl.
Ah so, skynet was always going to send the T-800 around 1998, so that's why that one got John, and why many kept popping up years later.
Even though from Sarah point of view, judgement day ended thus skynet no longer exists, it had already sent one to '98 regardless.
That's, sort of annoying, because even though you literally did change the future, another future is still fucking with you.
that T-800 could've been sent much earlier, just finally found his target in 1998.
That's what I said 7 hours ago and seems the most plausible, that skynet sent multiple contingencies.
Also the t-800 sending sarah messages about terminators showing up, we don't know if those were skynet and legion, or just legion.
I assume just legion, going through different gen terminators.
Yeah, I'd say that's most plausible.
At least 1 message from Carl must've been about the Legion terminators, as otherwise she wouldn't have been on the bridge. As Carl says later on, he can "feel" time displacements (or something?), so wouldn't matter who sent them.
But question is why would he send her to the bridge and not where they "dropped".
Oh yeah, he specifically said he could detect it before it happened as well.
No idea! Unless we're not supposed to assume she would always get there ready to kill it, but armed to the teeth ready to take it on following clues/aftermath.
That one plot point is weird because wouldn't the T1 Terminator have sensed Kyle and wouldn't the T-2 Terminator and the T-1000 have sensed each other? Unless we're supposed to assume they did but it didn't impact the plot of those films.
...So...what was the point of it being Legion instead of Skynet?
Honestly, when Grace said she'd never heard of Skynet or the Resistance, my first thought was that maybe they were going to do something interesting. That maybe there were multiple human factions in play and maybe the machines were actually subservient to a particular human faction/nation rather than it being as simple as humans vs machines.
But nope. It's literally the same thing with a sticker over the name. The only real difference is that Legion's time machiens are fucking terrible and don't seem to have a Y axis on the co-ordinate entry.
Honestly, when Grace said she'd never heard of Skynet or the Resistance, my first thought was that maybe they were going to do something interesting. That maybe there were multiple human factions in play and maybe the machines were actually subservient to a particular human faction/nation rather than it being as simple as humans vs machines.
But nope. It's literally the same thing with a sticker over the name. The only real difference is that Legion's time machiens are fucking terrible and don't seem to have a Y axis on the co-ordinate entry.
I guess it's a feature that wasn't activated for neither the original Terminator, Terminator T2 and T1000. While Carl activated it sometime after his mission was complete
Was thinking it was more that the time bubbles have a very unique traceable signature that Carl learned over time to recognize, rather than it just being a built in feature.
OP
OP
It was never claimed that this is a standard feature of the T-800. He simply said it was detectable. He didn't clarify the means with which it was detected. Presumably he created the means to do so after deciding on his goal. For all we know, he's got a rube goldberg machine in his garage that he claims is a ham radio. It's not really important how he did it, just that he did. And it's jumping to conclusions to assume it's a built-in feature that the 1984 800 also had. That's unlikely.
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I thought the way they handled the ending was very smart.
I think the people in charge, Tim, James, even Arnie, they all knew that it was probably going to bomb regardless of the quality of the movie. Yes, the studio executives would love to make some money by squeezing a new trilogy but sadly, the Terminator franchise is kind of "old story". The new generations don't really care about it, especially since the movies that came out in their time were all shitty.
So they made a great movie so the franchise could end on a good note instead of the few last stinkers.
I kind of see this as a trilogy about the T-800.
In the first one, he's a machine without feeling or remorse.
In the second, he's been reprogrammed and start to understand humans, even if it's not really on his own.
And in this one, he achieved sentience on his own, showing that machine and people could live together if they tried, and decided to sacrifice his life for humanity, from his own volition.
I would love to have a sequel to this amazing movie but I wouldn't be mad if this was the end of the franchise.
I think the people in charge, Tim, James, even Arnie, they all knew that it was probably going to bomb regardless of the quality of the movie. Yes, the studio executives would love to make some money by squeezing a new trilogy but sadly, the Terminator franchise is kind of "old story". The new generations don't really care about it, especially since the movies that came out in their time were all shitty.
So they made a great movie so the franchise could end on a good note instead of the few last stinkers.
I kind of see this as a trilogy about the T-800.
In the first one, he's a machine without feeling or remorse.
In the second, he's been reprogrammed and start to understand humans, even if it's not really on his own.
And in this one, he achieved sentience on his own, showing that machine and people could live together if they tried, and decided to sacrifice his life for humanity, from his own volition.
I would love to have a sequel to this amazing movie but I wouldn't be mad if this was the end of the franchise.
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I'm still just beyond amused the iconic, merciless T-800 Terminator in this film succeeds at his mission and... becomes Carl, the contently married draper with a wife and stepchild in rural Texas.
It's just the right kind of thing that's both dumb and awesome in equal measure.
It's just the right kind of thing that's both dumb and awesome in equal measure.
I'm soooo conflicted...
On one hand i think it's a fun action movie in its own right, and if there were never no other terminator movies i'd give this movie an high five.
On the other hand i'm nearly 40 years old and a huge fan of the first two movies....and for what this movie did to the original story i'd want to smack it in the face and beat it to a pulp.
Unfortunately, in the end, i have to say that for me the HUGELY underrated "The Sarah Connor Chronicles" is still the only worthy sequel to T2.
In fact, i'm gonna binge re-watch it as soon as i can XD
On one hand i think it's a fun action movie in its own right, and if there were never no other terminator movies i'd give this movie an high five.
On the other hand i'm nearly 40 years old and a huge fan of the first two movies....and for what this movie did to the original story i'd want to smack it in the face and beat it to a pulp.
Unfortunately, in the end, i have to say that for me the HUGELY underrated "The Sarah Connor Chronicles" is still the only worthy sequel to T2.
In fact, i'm gonna binge re-watch it as soon as i can XD
lol this movie was dogshit.
Bad writing, bad directing, poor cinematography and a fucking woeful score from Junkie XL.
The biggest problem of the opening scene wasn't that they murdered John. It was that they had some obviously expensive CG in a scene that was lit and framed like Days of Our Lives.
Bad writing, bad directing, poor cinematography and a fucking woeful score from Junkie XL.
The biggest problem of the opening scene wasn't that they murdered John. It was that they had some obviously expensive CG in a scene that was lit and framed like Days of Our Lives.
You know, rather then doing yet another time traveling Terminator, why didn't they just do this:
A new terminator shows up but there is an air of mystery around it since it's advanced but not as advanced as others.
It's just Sarah and John with maybe some new characters but no one from the future.
They defeat the terminator and find out that it's actually not from some future but from their time.
So they go and stop whomever is creating the terminators.
It would go on about the idea that they grew complacent. That they assumed that things wouldn't turn out this way because they did their job already. That if they want to have a good future that it's something they need to keep working at and never leave it up to fate. Rather than having the idea that something like Skynet is an inevitably, simply have it so that it would only be an inevitably if people do nothing (which is why it's important to not show a future where another AI did the same thing). This would more be in line with the themes in 1/2.
Then that's it. No more movies.
A new terminator shows up but there is an air of mystery around it since it's advanced but not as advanced as others.
It's just Sarah and John with maybe some new characters but no one from the future.
They defeat the terminator and find out that it's actually not from some future but from their time.
So they go and stop whomever is creating the terminators.
It would go on about the idea that they grew complacent. That they assumed that things wouldn't turn out this way because they did their job already. That if they want to have a good future that it's something they need to keep working at and never leave it up to fate. Rather than having the idea that something like Skynet is an inevitably, simply have it so that it would only be an inevitably if people do nothing (which is why it's important to not show a future where another AI did the same thing). This would more be in line with the themes in 1/2.
Then that's it. No more movies.
I hadn't seen the trailer and the killing of john connor via CGI (which I thought was extremely well done and about 99% there) of young arnold/sarah and furlong. Did not see that coming and it was like a WTF moment that really
a) fucked with T2 (fans will HATE IT) and what it did to John's character
b) but it spawns a new timeline/fate for the characters we already know and it sets up a new terminator movie
admittedly, yes, it rethreads so much of what had been done before but the action and set pieces were done with gusto and mate and I who watched it together this arvo walked out quite impressed with what it is. After 3, Salvation and the horrid genisys, this is actually a really good Terminator movie.
The other things that people will definitely hate is the old arnold terminator and his backstory.
I had fun and its the best Terminator movie since 2.
pretty much all the action set pieces I thought were great in this. The Factory fight at the start was great because it showed that this movie had bite. Lots of savage fighting and deaths.
a) fucked with T2 (fans will HATE IT) and what it did to John's character
b) but it spawns a new timeline/fate for the characters we already know and it sets up a new terminator movie
admittedly, yes, it rethreads so much of what had been done before but the action and set pieces were done with gusto and mate and I who watched it together this arvo walked out quite impressed with what it is. After 3, Salvation and the horrid genisys, this is actually a really good Terminator movie.
The other things that people will definitely hate is the old arnold terminator and his backstory.
I had fun and its the best Terminator movie since 2.
pretty much all the action set pieces I thought were great in this. The Factory fight at the start was great because it showed that this movie had bite. Lots of savage fighting and deaths.
When she sat on the log after seeing old arnold and her face is sunken from sadness. I was like this is T3.
Just came back from watching it. The original Terminator is my favourite movie of all time so I was really looking forward to seeing how this one measured up after the spate of disappointing sequels. I left the theatre with mixed feelings.
My main concern with the film from the trailers was the Rev9. Have to say I was pleasantly surprised to find it was one of the highlights of the film. He felt like a constant threat and the way it kept coming and moving fast really raised the stakes and tension. I really liked what they did with him by making him smug when communicating with other people. Great villain. The intensity from Grace was great as well and Mackenzie Davis put in a fantastic performance. It's definitely the best of the post T2 sequels and I felt it best captured the essence of the first two films.
In saying that I was a bit disappointed with some aspects of the film as well. I didn't like what they did to John. It basically throws away the events of the last few movies in the first five minutes. I would have liked to have seen John get a better send off than that. I wouldn't have even minded if John and Sarah weren't in the film. The film also does nothing new or original. It's basically a retread of T1/T2. I wasn't really satisfied with the lack of explanation as to how the future still becomes messed up despite Sarah and John stopping everything. I felt like it hand waves it away And renders those movies meaningless. I also felt the inclusion of Arnold in this film was unnecessary. Having so many protectors in the film lowered the tension significantly. I also felt the story was too rushed. Nearly every scene is a set piece and I felt like there's no chance to really develop the characters. Finally, the music in the film was really forgettable as well. Anyone know why they can't get Brad Fiedel back? He was a big part of making the movies so memorable and atmospheric.
It's a decent movie that could have been so much more.
My main concern with the film from the trailers was the Rev9. Have to say I was pleasantly surprised to find it was one of the highlights of the film. He felt like a constant threat and the way it kept coming and moving fast really raised the stakes and tension. I really liked what they did with him by making him smug when communicating with other people. Great villain. The intensity from Grace was great as well and Mackenzie Davis put in a fantastic performance. It's definitely the best of the post T2 sequels and I felt it best captured the essence of the first two films.
In saying that I was a bit disappointed with some aspects of the film as well. I didn't like what they did to John. It basically throws away the events of the last few movies in the first five minutes. I would have liked to have seen John get a better send off than that. I wouldn't have even minded if John and Sarah weren't in the film. The film also does nothing new or original. It's basically a retread of T1/T2. I wasn't really satisfied with the lack of explanation as to how the future still becomes messed up despite Sarah and John stopping everything. I felt like it hand waves it away And renders those movies meaningless. I also felt the inclusion of Arnold in this film was unnecessary. Having so many protectors in the film lowered the tension significantly. I also felt the story was too rushed. Nearly every scene is a set piece and I felt like there's no chance to really develop the characters. Finally, the music in the film was really forgettable as well. Anyone know why they can't get Brad Fiedel back? He was a big part of making the movies so memorable and atmospheric.
It's a decent movie that could have been so much more.