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Super Smash Bros Ultimate has 19 white male characters (6 of which are blue eyed / blonde hair), and 0 women of color
- Thread starter BigBlue
- Start date
This is the problem and it's something Nintendo or Sakurai can fix by themselves.
Depends on who you ask. If I took over a region and made everyone believe water was poison who proceeded my rise in influence, does that make water poison?
Asian characters are characters of color. Person of color just means not white.
MGS4 confirms that Solid and Liquid were both fertilized with a Japanese woman's egg cells, making her the biological mother, so I can kinda see why some people make the argument that he's part Japanese.
But given that Solid Snake deliberately looks identical to Big Boss, whose parentage isn't really explored but he's pretty firmly White American, it's pretty safe to say he's white. Pretty silly to use him as an example of racial diversity.
If anything they have more genetic traits in common with EVA, who carried them, such as Liquid's blonde hair, but I'm not a biologist but I'm pretty sure that's not how that works
For the record Im not saying all Japanese created characters are Japanese. Mario is obviously Italian, even Peach and Daisy have white facial features.
I'm saying just because Fire Emblem characters have hair that's not black doesn't mean they're not Asian. When anime styled characters are rendered to look realistic they tend to look more Asian, as evidence by Lucina and Chroms faces in Ultimate. Whether thats cultural appropriation because they're culture is very European inspired is a different story and one I believe Japan needs to sort out in general.
They're very good at representing culture, just not the people, as everyone has to look like a pretty J-pop star. Shit like Magi when they're dealing with characters like Ali Baba but everyone is light skinned really annoys me.
I'm saying just because Fire Emblem characters have hair that's not black doesn't mean they're not Asian. When anime styled characters are rendered to look realistic they tend to look more Asian, as evidence by Lucina and Chroms faces in Ultimate. Whether thats cultural appropriation because they're culture is very European inspired is a different story and one I believe Japan needs to sort out in general.
They're very good at representing culture, just not the people, as everyone has to look like a pretty J-pop star. Shit like Magi when they're dealing with characters like Ali Baba but everyone is light skinned really annoys me.
*According to the US Census
It's not exactly that cut and dry lol. She's not out of place on that list.
Canonically, Benimaru's the winner of the most KoF tournaments IIRC (including by virtue of having been on K's team more than once). That said, K' can be counted as more than a semi-protagonist, as each saga of KoF has had a different lead character and he was indeed said lead during the NESTS saga.Seeing as we're doing SNK already, I got the perfect pick.
The champion himself, K. canonically the winner of the most King of Fighters tournaments
He's also pretty popular and a semi-protagonist so he ticks all the boxes.
This. Simply looking at her would make it clear that she isn't (and wouldn't pass for) white.
Oh, I was sure it was K'. Huh. I counted him as a semi-protagonist nowadays because the NESTS saga ended 18 years ago but we can still count him as a full protagonist if we want. It makes his case stronger!
She's not the main character or even the most popular character in ARMS (that would be Min Min) so I don't see why people seem to be getting their hopes up for her.come on Nintendo!!
This illustrates the entire issue that this thread is revolving around: there are next to no PoC characters that are in a good position to be chosen over others.
I'm saying this as a brown guy with literally no characters anywhere in any game that represents me, but diversity doesn't only refer to skin colour.
In a fighting game, a diverse roster would be about having different types of fighters included, i.e. diverse body shapes like being tall and lanky, more gender diversity, etc. Smash has a diverse roster given that you have Donkey Kong, Pikachu, Yoshi, and Kirby right there next to Mario and Link. Ultimate is one that introduced the Inklings, K. Rool, and Ridley before Joker or the Hero. Diversity is about having differences for the better. Different mechanics adds a lot to that as well.
Smash is a game about Nintendo gaming history. Mario matters a lot more than Peach under those terms, for better or for worse. Just like Zelda matters much, much more than Urbosa does. That's why newer characters are not going to find their way into Smash so soon, and why Nintendo's strides to improve representation in their other games hasn't had an impact on Smash yet.
A real problem that IMO is only solved with time. I would love to have another Gerudo character; Nabooru or Urbosa would be excellent. But who else would be a worthy Smash inclusion?
Gerudo's are pretty stereotypical (even if BOTW is better about it) so I'd rather not.
I'm Middle Eastern and you are the dumbest take I've ever seen in a long time.
I was speaking in regards to the space in which these games are made. It's clearly being reflected in many of gaming's IPs.
Smash pulled most of its human characters from jrpgs, so as far as this thread is concerned, it is. It obviously goes beyond smash or jrpgs but this is about smash for now
User Banned (2 Weeks): Racist Generalizations and Peddling Misinformation
I'll probably get hate for this, but it's because the Japanese in general are hella xenophobic. Have you seen the commercial where the Japanese girl puts the black dude in a washing machine and he comes out white?
Add on top, that she is the only character in ARMS, who doesn't use her arms to fight.
Hey now. Diddy and Dark Samus want a word with you. Hell I'd argue DK is western character as the name is the only thing left of the character that Wasn't of Rare and Retros creation. Lol
On topic I don't think that's the issue really.
I'd say Twintelle was more popular when the game was fresh and new, and was addressed by the devs. With the game not really taking off I'm not sure the changes in taste would really matter at this point. Regardless, Springmans locked out of the running because he's an AT.
I'll just quote my previous post since I'm trying to avoid repeating myself. This operates under the assumption that you're referring to Min Min winning the Party Crash Bash.
Min Min's victory wasn't due to popularity alone. Likewise, Twintelle's loss in the Party Crash Bash wasn't due to lack of popularity. It's about a balance of number of players & number of skilled players. As a Marina loyalist during Splatoon 2's life, I felt loss after loss due to too many unskilled players being on our side. At the very least, Min Min is definitely among the most popular characters of ARMS, right alongside Twintelle.
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Nintendo is part of the problem. Just look how many versions of Animal Crossing it took before we could choose skin tone.
Yep, Elma got screwed by Sakurai's love of Fire Emblem. Xenoblade X came out at the perfect time for Elma to be an advertisement DLC character for Smash 4 but instead we got Corrin to advertise Fates of all games.
I completely understand the lack of diversity complaint, and there has been a sore lack of characters of colour that play a prominent role in games. One thing I don't get though is why the share of blonde/blue eyes is that surprising? A fair share of white people are blonde haired, and like 95% of all blonde people have blue eyes. The issue is more the fact that there's not enough diversity so the blue/blonde stands out.
If Spring-Man is out they aren't going to bother adding any other ARMS characters.
Didn't Nintendo kind of push Corrin on him? If I remember he wasn't jumping at the thought of adding another FE character through DLC.
Funny to say "it's reflective of the industry" while using fan rules to shut down every available option that exists within the industry, particularly Nintendo's own characters. I mean, it's not wrong to say that it's reflective of the industry, but still. The options are limited, not nonexistent.
We should also note that Smash is itself part of and influential to the industry and would help a lot by highlighting more female and non-white/non-Japanese characters.
Claude, Twintelle, Min Min, Urbosa, and Off the Hook should be playable.
Nakoruru would be a fantastic third party addition too.
We should also note that Smash is itself part of and influential to the industry and would help a lot by highlighting more female and non-white/non-Japanese characters.
Claude, Twintelle, Min Min, Urbosa, and Off the Hook should be playable.
Nakoruru would be a fantastic third party addition too.
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Why bother trying to discuss complicated issues when people pretend not to known the meaning of the word "most" just to make shitty gotcha drive-by posts?
This nails it. The industry is the primary problem, nobody is denying that. But as part of the industry that Smash is highlighting, Sakurai (& Nintendo) should put in some effort to do better with regards to women as well as people of color. The reason I'm so vocal about it is because Smash Ultimate actually regressed in terms of improving female fighter percentage compared to the slow-but-steady upward climb throughout the series (Sakurai even acknowledged the problem during the Wii U/3DS days).
As for the various rules (official or otherwise), the main one that's the problem is (as mentioned before) the protagonists-first mentality that Sakurai seems to have. Others such as "Have to have appeared on a Nintendo system at least once" don't play as big of a role with regards to the current problems of the roster, though I guess Sakurai's "No-region-exclusive characters" rule is holding back characters like Ayumi.
You must've gotten the fact confuse with him canonically beating the most final bosses. Technically you do become the Champion for beating them in most games, but that wasn't the case for 2003, as the fight with Mukai happened outside of the tournament.
User Banned (3 Days) - Dismissive Driveby Post
Never known anyone that found guys in the game being blonde with blue eyes a problem. Probably looking too deep into it op tbh
Smash isn't a magic fix all for the industry. There's a lot more that goes into games being greenlit and the creative choices than the characters. Like if for some reason Urbosa got into Smash, I doubt she would suddenly be a prominent character in future Zelda games, or if we got Twintelle we wouldn't get ARMS 2 with her as the main character. Lots of series and characters get into Smash and still nothing changes. Captain Falcon has been in every Smash since the beginning and F-Zero is still dead, Mother 3 still hasn't been localized, Kid Icarus Uprising did modestly despite Pit being featured in the biggest fighting game of all time, Sheik never reappears besides spin-offs, etc.
I don't think Smash is the magic savior some people make it out to be.
I don't think Smash is the magic savior some people make it out to be.
That this isn't an issue relegated mostly to JRPGs. Issues of representation are industry wide.
Should I have also referenced Simon & Richter Belmont? Pit? Samus Aran?
No one is claiming Smash would fix everything. Come on now. The point is reflecting nothing more than the most conservative parts of the industry is only a negative, especially when Smash itself is one of the biggest franchises ever.
Nobody's saying it would be a magic fix, & the industry as a whole should still work to improve. But having Smash improve when it comes to representation would be a step in the right direction, & it would help Smash catch up with the other modern fighting games that have (mostly) improved when it comes to representation.
As for Twintelle, while she may not fully dethrone Spring Man to be the main character (as awesome as that scenario would be), she's already on her way to dethroning Ribbon Girl as the leading lady (well, her main competition is Min Min right now, but you get my point).
User banned (permanent): troll account
No offense or anything to you guys, but it's Smash Brothers. Don't you have better things to worry about?
So you got the guy you quoted banned. Why though?
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This problem will never go away, well not in this era you can add one POC character but for every one of them there are 5 or 6 white people that people want, the next game probably is a reboot so expect things to get worse, you can add all the POC choices like elma, Twintelle and shantae and things won't really improve, because of dante, doomguy, masterchief this problem goes to woman too to a lesser degree, doing better means little when the next game will cut all of these characters because they aren't popular, this doesnt mean that you shouldn't call out nintendo about representation but that this should be focused more on the protagonist side of the things, they should fix the problem not patch it.