Steve (GamersNexus) is doing a PS5 thermal analysis

[MrFox]

What kind of temperature reduction would be expected if the cured thermal compound was still applied and not torn off? 10-15 degrees?

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Impossible know without the datasheet of that compound. Very few products are using this as far as I'm aware.

It should have a very nice viscosity when applied in liquid form going through microscopic cracks before curing in place. It seems to remove the need for loading pressure on pads. Even if they clean it up and replace this with a traditional silpad, they might not have the recommended compression applied to the pad as per manufacturers recommendation. It depends if the top aluminum EMI shield was designed to swap these with silpads.

 

[Vash63]

It looks like the memory modules are using a cured thermal compound (from engineer's interview), and he tore it off before putting the probes. I don't know how he can test the temperature afterwards without knowing how to reapply the original compound. It's the reason I didn't do a tear down on mine, I'm waiting to be sure to know how to reapply this stuff, and what stuff it is.

So I disagree with his methodology.

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Yeah this is my concern also. The video doesn't clarify if the probes were put on without disturbing the original thermal paste. Steve is one of the best resources out there for this so I would assume this would be accounted for, but it isn't specifically mentioned and does seem like an obvious potential issue with this test.

 

[MrFox]

Yeah this is my concern also. The video doesn't clarify if the probes were put on without disturbing the original thermal paste. Steve is one of the best resources out there for this so I would assume this would be accounted for, but it isn't specifically mentioned and does seem like an obvious potential issue with this test.

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Absolutely, Steve is awesome. And if he learns something new about this cured compound he will probably have an addendum video.

I find this fascinating, I just think it's not easy to make this sort of test in a non-destructive way. If he needs to remove the EMI shield, it's already destroyed. So how do you place the probe touching the center of the chip?

 

[Vash63]

Absolutely, Steve is awesome. And if he learns something new about this cured compound he will probably have an addendum video.

I find this fascinating, I just think it's not easy to make this sort of test in a non-destructive way. If he needs to remove the EMI shield, it's already destroyed. So how do you place the probe touching the center of the chip?

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I think he mentioned that he isn't touching the precise center of the chip so it isn't perfectly accurate, but that would make his readings cooler if anything. The bigger problem is getting the probe in place to even touch it at all without removing the plate.

 

[ps3ud0]

Yeah I was surprised he didn't mention the state of the thermal pads that obviously have been damaged as part of installing the probes.

Though that doesn't absolve Sony's decision in what pads they've used and where they haven't.

One other thing that's mentioned that no one's said is that the bloody menu uses up 100W. Half the power that the game tested used. That's a lot of power just for an animated menu...

ps3ud0 8)

 

[neoak]

Speak for yourself. I've had a launch PS4 for 7 years and not a single issue.

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My launch PS4 (from Amazon and the 3 game bundle), died 3 years and 1 month after launch, a month after the damn 36 months warranty from Sony ran out.

So got a dead one to balance your good one.

Bought a Spidey Pro, because I was waiting until they had worked out some kinks first.

 

[Indy_Rex]

One other thing that's mentioned that no one's said is that the bloody menu uses up 100W. Half the power that the game tested used. That's a lot of power just for an animated menu...

ps3ud0 8)

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That's only 20w more than what the PS4 did at launch.

Hardware Test: PlayStation 4

Digital Foundry's in-depth take on Sony's next-gen console.

www.eurogamer.net

PS4 also draws a fair amount of juice too - 80W at idle on the front-end menus (the "PlayStation Dynamic Menu" to give it its proper name), 95W based on in-game video playback, and around 110-120W during gameplay - that's about 10-20W more than the first release of the "Slim" PlayStation 3. Curiously though, bringing up the menu system while in-game sees another leap in power draw - up to the maximum of 140W.

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[Tatsu91]

GDDR6 memory running at 93C is well within spec. During intense summer months, when ambient room temp is 30C+, it could start being problematic with memory running at 103C, but I assume Sony will tweak fan curves as needed. But even if we take summer into account, 103C might still be fine, as we don't know tjmax for these modules, it could be 110C or more.

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Memory is one of the parts where 90s is fine same with some parts on a Mobo if the GPU or CPU got and stayed at those temps that would be a problem

 

[What-ok]

Been playing DeS everyday since the day one release with zero noise or heat issues. 🤔

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

5 degrees cooler without the panels?

When will custom panels be allowed for sale, I want some speed holes!

 

[neoak]

Been playing DeS everyday since the day one release with zero noise or heat issues. 🤔

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It isn't about right now, it is about long term reliability and possible memory corruption

 

[Deleted member 16908]

Not sure if this has been posted already but here's what the thermal pad/paste situation looks like inside the Series X:

(source: Spawn Wave on YT)

As you can see the thermal pads are much larger and fully cover the GDDR6 chips. We won't know proper details until GN does their Series X temperature testing but I would definitely expect the X's memory temps to be lower than PS5's.

 

[neoak]

Not sure if this has been posted already but here's what the thermal pad/paste situation looks like inside the Series X:

(source: Spawn Wave on YT)

As you can see the thermal pads are much larger and fully cover the GDDR6 chips. We won't know proper details until GN does their Series X temperature testing but I would definitely expect the X's memory temps to be lower than PS5's.

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That's similar to the One X in the size of the thermal pads IIRC

 

[Serious Sam]

Not sure if this has been posted already but here's what the thermal pad/paste situation looks like inside the Series X:

(source: Spawn Wave on YT)

As you can see the thermal pads are much larger and fully cover the GDDR6 chips. We won't know proper details until GN does their Series X temperature testing but I would definitely expect the X's memory temps to be lower than PS5's.

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I think we can all agree by now that Xbox has superior hardware engineering, but we can't really compare memory cooling directly to PS5, because Series X has memory modules on SoC side, where as PS5 has them on the opposite side.

 

[travisbickle]

I can't really grasp the concern because I've been indoctrinated over the last 6 months to believe it would be the cpu/gpu running hot.

No one mentioned memory as an issue so I can only assume Sony knows about this and it's within normal temp bounds for their tests ...maybe not the coolest but nothing that worries their engineers.

 

[Samiya]

I can't believe Sony skimped out on the thermal pads for the memory. How much more would it have cost to have full coverage instead of some small dots?

With this design flaw, the coil whine, and the massive size of the box, Sony's design team have really made a lot of errors that shouldn't be happening for a flagship product like the PS5. Honestly some of the errors are amateur hour.

 

[Fezan]

Hopefully it's an isolated scenario. Else it would be issue for people living in hotter climate zone. Of I recall correctly they showed thermal pads for vrm.

Atleast this debunks claim of last minute overclock

 

[Vexii]

Yeah I was surprised he didn't mention the state of the thermal pads that obviously have been damaged as part of installing the probes.

Though that doesn't absolve Sony's decision in what pads they've used and where they haven't.

One other thing that's mentioned that no one's said is that the bloody menu uses up 100W. Half the power that the game tested used. That's a lot of power just for an animated menu...

ps3ud0 8)

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Oof, I'll be trying to make a good habit of not leaving the console sitting at the menu when I'm not using it then

 

[Samiya]

Hopefully it's an isolated scenario. Else it would be issue for people living in hotter climate zone. Of I recall correctly they showed thermal pads for vrm.

Atleast this debunks claim of last minute overclock

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it would be very surprising if this was an isolated scenario. These things are manufactured via automatized production procedures. Chances that this is a widespread flaw is very high.

 

[acebeam]

With this design flaw, the coil whine, and the massive size of the box,

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As long there is no reported malfunctions because memory, there is no design flaw in this. So, basically every PC GPU is the problem where memory can run at over 100 C. Also, PS4 wasn't better either and nothing happened

1. a garishly big console design that everyone makes fun off
2. badly designed cooling especially memory thermal pads

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Sorry, but that is an exaggeration. Bad designed cooling? What? In last 10 years bunch of memes are created for consoles, PS5 isn't exception. It's funny to me

 

[jett]

5 degrees cooler without the panels?

When will custom panels be allowed for sale, I want some speed holes!

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You can do it yourself

 

[Dphex]

Why are people going like this "could affect the system in the future"?

we know that the PS5 is prone to crashing, who knows if this is really firmware related? could very well be that it is the memory which runs hot very fast (could also be SoC, PSU, SSD, GPU, whatever. no one knows till there are more system updates and frankly, that is very concerning)

 

[Fezan]

it would be very surprising if this was an isolated scenario. These things are manufactured via automatized production procedures. Chances that this is a widespread flaw is very high.

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Why are people going like this "could affect the system in the future"?



we know that the PS5 is prone to crashing, who knows if this is really firmware related? could very well be that it is the memory which runs hot very fast (could also be SoC, PSU, SSD, GPU, whatever. no one knows till there are more system updates and frankly, that is very concerning)

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Because soc and other modules are fine. It's only one vrm which is getting very very hot.

Crashes are happening even on series s so I think it's more due to rushed launch and covid

 

[Serious Sam]

Hopefully it's an isolated scenario. Else it would be issue for people living in hotter climate zone. Of I recall correctly they showed thermal pads for vrm.

Atleast this debunks claim of last minute overclock

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Yeah it's amazing people think Sony's engineers didn't test anything, just slapped some parts together and called it a day.

PS5 manual clearly says PS5 ambient operating temperature is 5C to 35C.

 

[Adamska]

I wonder if this will actually lead to more faulty units in the long term, but then again although my launch PS4 was jet engine loud at times, it never faltered. The person to whom I sold it didn't request a return either. I should add that climate here can get pretty hot at times, but I was always careful not to play on extreme conditions (such as room temperatures above 35 Celsius).

 

[Fezan]

Yeah it's amazing people think Sony's engineers didn't test anything, just slapped some parts together and called it a day.

PS5 manual clearly says PS5 ambient operating temperature is 5C to 35C.

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Defects and issues do occur in manufacturing plants. It may just have been case of that

 

[GronkyKong]

we know that the PS5 is prone to crashing, who knows if this is really firmware related? could very well be that it is the memory which runs hot very fast (could also be SoC, PSU, SSD, GPU, whatever. no one knows till there are more system updates and frankly, that is very concerning)

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Is it? A few people on the internet have had crashes and that makes the entire batch prone to crashing does it? Mine must not be a real PS5 then because there hasn't been a single crash....

Steve is good but the way he handled the cured compound wasn't anywhere near ideal.

 

[Bundy]

Why are people going like this "could affect the system in the future"?

we know that the PS5 is prone to crashing, who knows if this is really firmware related? could very well be that it is the memory which runs hot very fast (could also be SoC, PSU, SSD, GPU, whatever. no one knows till there are more system updates and frankly, that is very concerning)

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lol.... sure.

 

[Phellps]

Why are people going like this "could affect the system in the future"?

we know that the PS5 is prone to crashing, who knows if this is really firmware related? could very well be that it is the memory which runs hot very fast (could also be SoC, PSU, SSD, GPU, whatever. no one knows till there are more system updates and frankly, that is very concerning)

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People are saying this could affect the system in the future because it's a proven fact that higher temps could compromise the longevity of hardware. It's all speculation, of course, because none of us are Sony engineers with all the data they have about the hardware they designed, but it's speculation based on previous knowledge about similar tech.

What isn't a proven fact nor is backed by any previous knowledge is the claim that any PS5 crash is hardware related. So you can relax for now.

 

[acebeam]

Why are people going like this "could affect the system in the future"?

we know that the PS5 is prone to crashing, who knows if this is really firmware related? could very well be that it is the memory which runs hot very fast (could also be SoC, PSU, SSD, GPU, whatever. no one knows till there are more system updates and frankly, that is very concerning)

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Vast majority of the PS5 crashes are software related ( crashing in rest mode, quiting games in Rest mode, PS4 games transfer) . And also, looks like it was fixed in last OFW update

 

[TheGhost]

Vast majority of the PS5 crashes are software related ( crashing in rest mode, quiting games in Rest mode, PS4 games transfer) . And also, looks like it was fixed in last OFW update

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My Miles Morales still crashes. And Everytime my ps5 crash makes it more and more likely I won't power it on again until it's patched to the point that will no longer happen.

 

[Mubrik_]

Why are people going like this "could affect the system in the future"?

we know that the PS5 is prone to crashing, who knows if this is really firmware related? could very well be that it is the memory which runs hot very fast (could also be SoC, PSU, SSD, GPU, whatever. no one knows till there are more system updates and frankly, that is very concerning)

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IKR, could also be the face plates that increased the overall heat by 5 degrees, I'm very concerned about that.

 

[acebeam]

My Miles Morales still crashes. And Everytime my ps5 crash makes it more and more likely I won't power it on again until it's patched to the point that will no longer happen.

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Yeah, that still happens to someone, at least i know a few of them which that bug has been fixed after an updated. Also, Insomniac said few days ago they will fix the rest mode bug for Miles

 

[Hitokiri03]

I wonder if the PS5 DE suffers from the same issues as the disc version.

It doesn't have the drive which is located right below the ram chips.

 

[Radec]

wrong thread

 

[molnizzle]

The side panels *raise* the temperature? You've gotta be kidding me ...

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Right, but I was under the impression that the garish design was a byproduct of them mitigating heat from the system.

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If there's one thing I've learned from decades of PC building, it's that there is no shortcut around straight up holes in the case to allow for direct airflow to blast the components. All the fancy routing in the world just creates more resistance and restricts how much cold air from outside the case can hit the components.

 

[oneils]

What happened with that video with the guy who said he had to remove a label/sticker that was being hit by the fan. Was that not a thing? Asking here because I can't remember which thread I saw that in...

This thread makes me wonder what happens if I take the side panels off of my PS5.

 

[AndyD]

Why is this a common issue though? Memory needs to be cooled and heat can become an issue, just as with any other PC part. Why is that memory cooling is so overlooked?

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It's not as critical and it does not show up as an error or damage as if you were to mess up the main chip cooling, so it's a natural area for less QA and cost cutting.

 

[Previously on Lost]

Great video by GN as always

 

[Bluelote]

As long there is no reported malfunctions because memory, there is no design flaw in this. So, basically every PC GPU is the problem where memory can run at over 100 C. Also, PS4 wasn't better either and nothing happened

Sorry, but that is an exaggeration. Bad designed cooling? What? In last 10 years bunch of memes are created for consoles, PS5 isn't exception. It's funny to me

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I think people worry a bit in terms of longevity, this is a new console, over time the thermal interface is going to be worse and the console might accumulate some dust, who knows... but yeah, I would think Sony knows what they are doing and the ram can operate like that....

but, looking at temps people reports for GDDR6 on PC, it's typically lower, like 80s I think, and on internal sensors which I would think are higher temp than the probe used in this test on the PS5.

the PS4 had very conservatively clocked GDDR5, I don't think you can compare cooling solutions and temps really.

 

[rahzel]

Speak for yourself. I've had a launch PS4 for 7 years and not a single issue.

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I've had:
PS1, PS One
PS2 (bought used), 2xPS2 slim (sold PS2 slim but bought a used one years later)
PS3 20GB launch (sold), PS3 slim
PS4 launch , PS4 slim

I can honestly say I've NEVER had a PS die on me in my ownership. I currently only own a PS3 slim as I have sold my other consoles and plan on buying a PS5 soon.

So I don't understand the person you quoted, either. PS have always been reliable IMO.

 

[acebeam]

I think people worry a bit in terms of longevity, this is a new console, over time the thermal interface is going to be worse and the console might accumulate some dust, who knows... but yeah, I would think Sony knows what they are doing and the ram can operate like that....

but, looking at temps people reports for GDDR6 on PC, it's typically lower, like 80s I think, and on internal sensors which I would think are higher temp than the probe used in this test on the PS5.

the PS4 had very conservatively clocked GDDR5, I don't think you can compare cooling solutions and temps really.

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I read that 3080 has around 100 C. Anyway, in this thread is 3080 test by Steve.
Also, PS4 has worse coolling design and in a similar way has same small thermal pads on memory and nothing happened at all.

 

[MetalKhaos]

I've had:
PS1, PS One
PS2 (bought used), 2xPS2 slim (sold PS2 slim but bought a used one years later)
PS3 20GB launch (sold), PS3 slim
PS4 launch , PS4 slim

I can honestly say I've NEVER had a PS die on me in my ownership. I currently only own a PS3 slim as I have sold my other consoles and plan on buying a PS5 soon.

So I don't understand the person you quoted, either. PS have always been reliable IMO.

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The only PS system I had die on me was my OG PS2. However, I fault the issue with having left it on all the damn time, even when away, during time playing FFXI. Would leave it up as you can leave your character somewhere and setup shop selling items directly.

 

[wwm0nkey]

The only PS system I had die on me was my OG PS2. However, I fault the issue with having left it on all the damn time, even when away, during time playing FFXI. Would leave it up as you can leave your character somewhere and setup shop selling items directly.

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I've had a PS2 fat disk drive fail on me, my PS3 got YLOD (a lot of OG units suffer this too), my PS4 had the jet engine issue (not a failure I know) and my Pro had a full drive failure after 6 months.

I've also had 1 OG Xbox drive failure and 1 RROD.

Electronics are fickle

 

[Wein Cruz]

I've had:
PS1, PS One
PS2 (bought used), 2xPS2 slim (sold PS2 slim but bought a used one years later)
PS3 20GB launch (sold), PS3 slim
PS4 launch , PS4 slim

I can honestly say I've NEVER had a PS die on me in my ownership. I currently only own a PS3 slim as I have sold my other consoles and plan on buying a PS5 soon.

So I don't understand the person you quoted, either. PS have always been reliable IMO.

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Believe whatever you want but it isn't true.

There's a reason why Sony settled a lawsuit for the PS2's disc read errors.

PS3 phats are infamous for the yellow light of death and who old enough could forget about turning their PSX upside-down.

Any narrative that Sony has not had severe hardware issues is make believe.

 

[Bluelote]

I read that 3080 has around 100 C. Anyway, in this thread is 3080 test by Steve.
Also, PS4 has worse coolling design and in a similar way has same small thermal pads on memory and nothing happened at all.

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I'm using as reference the RX 5700XT (same ram speed as the PS5) and people report 80s for it,

PS4 uses GDDR5 at 5.5GHz you can run that without any heatsink, at least my graphics card with that did and still works after 8 years.

 

[Merv]

As long there is no reported malfunctions because memory, there is no design flaw in this. So, basically every PC GPU is the problem where memory can run at over 100 C. Also, PS4 wasn't better either and nothing happened

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The PS4 and specifically that picture shows square pads that cover almost the entire die, which is exactly what the GN video suggests.

Will it work fina as is, probably, but a few pennies worth of pads could lower the temp a couple degrees.

 

[PaulLFC]

I've had:
PS1, PS One
PS2 (bought used), 2xPS2 slim (sold PS2 slim but bought a used one years later)
PS3 20GB launch (sold), PS3 slim
PS4 launch , PS4 slim

I can honestly say I've NEVER had a PS die on me in my ownership. I currently only own a PS3 slim as I have sold my other consoles and plan on buying a PS5 soon.

So I don't understand the person you quoted, either. PS have always been reliable IMO.

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On the Sony side:

• I had a PS1 fail
• PS2 broke due to a disc read error
• PS3 Slim (v1) was fine
• PS4 launch and PS4 Pro were both fine
• PS5 has a fan rattling noise but thankfully isn't too loud.

On the Xbox side:

• My original Xbox was fine
• Original 360 eventually got the RROD, was repaired and was then fine
• Xbox One original was fine
• Xbox One X still works but throws up boot errors / errors during system updates a fair bit which makes me think the SSHD might be failing
• Series X has been pretty much perfect so far. Silent, and I don't seem to have the loud disc drive on boot issues that a lot of people are having

 

[Deleted member 79451]

I can't really grasp the concern because I've been indoctrinated over the last 6 months to believe it would be the cpu/gpu running hot.

No one mentioned memory as an issue so I can only assume Sony knows about this and it's within normal temp bounds for their tests ...maybe not the coolest but nothing that worries their engineers.

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Running hot is different from running at a sustained temperature which will shorten the life of the device. Over 90C should always concern you with current electronics.

I read that 3080 has around 100 C. Anyway, in this thread is 3080 test by Steve.
Also, PS4 has worse coolling design and in a similar way has same small thermal pads on memory and nothing happened at all.

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I mean a broken 3080 maybe. Normally 3080 memory temps should be around 60-70 under sustained load... (looks like FE can hit lower 80s while the regular brands are 60s and 70s)

 

[rahzel]

Believe whatever you want but it isn't true.

There's a reason why Sony settled a lawsuit for the PS2's disc read errors.

PS3 phats are infamous for the yellow light of death and who old enough could forget about turning their PSX upside-down.

Any narrative that Sony has not had severe hardware issues is make believe.

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I'm not saying there weren't issues, but failure rates were within consumer electronic standards weren't they?