man, rewatching the TFA forest fight, it's baffling that the stupid fucking Mary Sue thing ever caught on. it's so clear that Rey is inexperienced with the lightsaber. most of the time she's flailing wildly and barely blocking Kylo's swings. a lot of the time she is just straight up running away.
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Star Wars: The Last Jedi |OT3| The War is Just Beginning (Unmarked Spoilers)
- Thread starter Bronx-Man
- Start date
All he has to do is legitimately repent, a la Christianity. While Lucas drew on other religions, he is also quoted as saying that he wanted to use the force to communicate the concept of 'god'.
it absolutely IS a regression of his character, and his person! and that's why I find it interesting, because people similarly regress in that same way
Not quite.
It was known Vader was turned to the light-side of the Force by Luke (so said Luke) but it was only six years before TFA that the Galaxy found out Vader was the father of Luke and Leia. It became huge news, of course, but it brought down Leia's political career (it was revealed by a New Republic Senator working secretly for the First Order) and it put into motion Ben's fall to the dark side too.
He didn't know Vader was his grandfather.
Glad we agree! Like I said, the biggest issue imo is that a lot of people needed more than what they were given to justify it.
The thing that makes people react that way (in that scene, keep in mind there's a lot of cumulative things that make Rey seem op) is honestly the tail end of it where she just says the force and then kicks his ass. That's why I wanted them to play up Kylos injuries more as well as put greater emphasis on her life learned combat skills within the script before that scene. (And heck probably smoothed out how jarring the difference was after she says the force).
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He did, according to the Visual Dictionary. He and other Resistance members were quickly sent by Leia to scatter across the Galaxy after evacuating D'Qar. But the majority of the Resistance was still wiped out by the end of TLJ.
Rewatching TLJ multiple times reveals my biggest problem with the film, in that some of the dialogue is laughably on the nose, such as when the distress call goes out and no one answers and Leia says "We fought to the end, but the spark is out. The galaxy has lost all hope." It would be like if the end of TFA when Starkiller base is imploding and turning into a star that one of the characters said "Look, what was once darkness is now turning into light. We have our hope back!"
Oh rad, I didn't know that! I assumed he would have been in the evacuation battle. To whoever I told he was "dead as fuck," I apologize.
You could toss me in a barrel and throw me in the river. I'll float down to Laketown singing fa-la-lally! That would be incredible.
I've tried to talk about this and other issues with the writing but typically I get told that this is the best written film ever in StarWars (I even got told that the films writing and character arcs are litteraly perfect!).
A lot of the dialog in the film feels on the nose, another example of that is when you have multiple characters say that Luke has found balance with the force, or you repeatedly have characters reiterate stated actions along with a ton of 'fuck it talk directly to the audience'.
I mean, I think it very well might be the best written film in the series even despite this. It's really only a handful of lines in the movie I have a problem with. This one, Snoke's death monologue, the repeated use of the "we are the spark that will etc." and maybe Rose's "saving what we love" thing, which I am kinda torn on
You know how we see Chewie fly the ship in masterful fashion in TLJ from his traditional 'co-pilot' seat? Where was Nien Nunb sitting again?
Star Wars: Episode Nien Nunb
That's just dumb storytelling. So all anyone has to do to not be held responsible for her actions is to go to the dark side?
I am trying to understand your complaint. Are you saying the dialogue is too direct or obvious. Remember Star Wars is a film that should be enjoyed by kids also.
He's alive, he's very visible in the last shot. Now that Ackbar is dead, other than him and chewie, how many OT aliens are left in the sequels? Is he the last one?
I think there are a few moments in the film that violate "show, don't tell" which I find are standouts because generally the film is really good at visual storytelling
like, in that moment when Leia says that line, her body language and what is going on around them make it more than clear that they are losing hope, you don't also need to deliver it in a very stilted line of dialogue
After reading some of the complaints in this thread... the dialogue was not on the nose enough..
Alright I'm still going to try and pin you down on this so let me try a different question lol.
Do you think you'd ever be okay with a future flick having Rey quitting the rebels and going back to Jakku hoping maybe just maybe to reunite with her parents?
Sorry I have missed most of the thread. But is there any explanation for why Rey is so powerful and how she becomes a Jedi with about a week of training?
And also why was Finn given a completely irrelevant storyline and no real development arc in his character. They did a good job with him in TFA.
And also why was Finn given a completely irrelevant storyline and no real development arc in his character. They did a good job with him in TFA.
I think there are plenty of legitimate complaints to make about TLJ. The 4 act structure is ungainly, there is too much technobabble framing the B-story, the dialogue can sometimes be a little too on the nose and there are too many characters.
Those quibbles didn't stop it from being a great movie.
Those quibbles didn't stop it from being a great movie.
Finn only cares about Rey -> Finn cares about the cause of the Resistance.
Thats character development.
Yep Nien Nunb is on the Falcon at the end... with his abnormally large not puppet head. Did you know he was a puppet in ROTJ, like a human hand is working that mouth and radio control eyeballs and stuff. In TFA and TLJ his head has always seemed much larger (kinda like Ponda Baba in R1 too)
Wicket might be alive unless Kylo killed all the Ewoks when he retrieved grandpa's helmet.
Agreed, and in the end, the results of all the plotlines really hit home on all the themes and character arcs for the movie/franchise. It's beautiful.
Wasn't that an old TFA rumor? Jesus it seems like we've come so far and yet this thread
Did anyone else forget Phasma existed until she showed up? I saw her and was like "oh yeah she's in this movie". Hope 9 keeps the running joke going.
That's the other weird thing about people who are convinced or want Rey's parentage to be retconned in IX - they are dead. Regardless of whether they were drunken junkers (they were) or descendants of Sheev himself, Kylo says they are "dead in a pauper's grave".
Yes, Kylo could just lie, but I don't see it.
Yes, Kylo could just lie, but I don't see it.
I just feel this is where the narrative falls down. He references Snoke and The First Order.
Luke not being at one with the Force is supposed to explain why he doesnt know about events but knowledge of these things I feel is OOC for him to then abandon his friends.
Would work better if Luke was totally unaware of Snoke.
Complain about the Canto subplot all you want but I don't see how you can argue Finn had no arc. He very clearly went from 'not caring about the Resistance' to 'caring about the resistance'. It's not the most complex arc in the world but it's there and pretty clearly laid out.
Yes, there is an explanation. But one many are unsatisfied with. Luke says to Rey, "I've only seen this power once before" (referencing Ben Solo). Later, Snoke comments that Rey is the light that rose to offset Ben Solo's darkness. So she's basically of/by the force. How did Anakin get his powers? Nobody really knows (conceived by the force??). How did Yoda get his power? Nobody knows. It's just something that happens and you have to roll with it.
(Actually when the two images in the mirror converged to one I thought they were going to go the "you only had a mother" route like Anakin.)
That's a fair take! I mean honestly I obviously didn't like it or think that it was great, but that doesn't mean that anyone is wrong for feeling like it is a great movie.
Okay I getcha. She looks frail for her age in the film, could be the reason for the stilted delivery for a lot of her lines. I think Mark Hamil put on a good performance though.
Remember when Admiral Achbar yells out "it's a trap!" In Return of the Jedi. When it's plain and obvious to everyone. They break "show, don't tell" all the time in Star Wars.
Pretty sure she got killed of for good. "Slow motion falling into an explosion" is universal cinema speak for "this character is dead".
Didn't he care for the Resistance in VII? And early in the movie when he goes on a dangerous mission risking his life for the Resistance? I agree he still had a story arc, but the issue with it for me was something else entirely (prequel tier bad and boring)
Jedi don't train to increase their force abilities. You don't level up. As Han said that's not how the Force works.
Luke was able to use the Force to communicate with a Force Ghost, use the Force to help guide a missile, and use the Force to pull a saber to him with 15 minutes of training in ANH. :)
She's powerful because some people just have natural talent. 'The Force is strong with this one' is all the reason you ever need.
She isn't a Jedi though. Not by a long shot. Did you happen to notice that she took the Jedi books and Stowed them aboard the falcon? She's planning to study to either become a Jedi or figure out where they went wrong and create a new way.
Regardless, there doesn't need to be a explanation as to why she's so strong with the force. Some people just are.
If you're looking for a reason why she bested kylo in TFA, he was gravely injures and not actually trying to kill her. Everything else, it's because she's strong with the force.
I'm starting to feel like Kylo fighting Luke.
How is he doing this so easily?
Yep, Finn encounters DJ, who essentially represents what Finn could become if he continued on his desired path of running away from it all. Finn by the end firmly rejects the moral relatavism of DJ. It's a good arc.
I wanted more Canto Bight, and Justin Theroux. DJ (del Toro's acting) grows on me each time I see the movie (4x)