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Congratulations on proving people prefer Last Jedi to Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones I guess. QED no one likes The Last Jedi?
Cinemascore only talks to people who have actually seen the films as they're walking out of the cinema. How does Rotten Tomatoes verify that their scores are representative of audience members?
That's not what either RJ, nor the article say. But okay, nice try.
Read the interview you posted not just the clickbait headline. RJ says as far as he's concerned Kylo is telling Rey the truth about her parents then goes on to explain why its the stronger narrative decision than making her related to the OT heroes. All he says that remotely implies it being "open" is that he acknowledges that he's not writing or directing the next movie so Abrams could technically change her parentage if he was a complete idiot, which he's not.
But... what SW movie hasn't? TFA made a lot of money, AOTC made a lot of money, TFA made really a lot of money. So did RO and TLJ. Do you think the suits see Johnson as some kind of visionary without who a different TLJ would have totally bombed? Do you think a tighly-controlled studio like Disney would let one of their franchise movies bomb? Even Pirates still make money. You know what Disney movies flopped in the recent years? Tomorrowland, John Carter and Lone Ranger.
LMAO at the idea that Dead Man's Chest is a success and TLJ isn't.
You're neglecting the fact that all of those directors faced and failed to resolve issues in production. Trevorrow wasn't fired because of Henry - which had long been completed and was certainly seen by Kennedy before it was released - but rather because he couldn't rewrite Ep. IX after Fisher passed (hence the saga with Connoly's departure and Thorne's brief enlistment).
Compared to Trank's FF, Rogue One, Ep. IX, and even TFA, Johnson's production was smooth sailing. He's the only one who hasn't fucked up or delayed his project. He's an extremely capable director and an affable guy. TLJ has done good business and reviewed well. He won't be fired. Not for TLJ, at least ;)
This is still valid, like you say, that could change because he don't know what Jj will do, that means Disney don't have a plan at all for that trilogy and that JJ can fuck what RJ did like RJ fucked what JJ did, it's not definitive.
That's surprising.
How does this remotely resemble a point? All you're doing is pointing out the absurdity of thinking that this box office result or fan "controversy" is going to effect the upcoming Star Wars film slate at all, especially in light of what ACTUALLY troubling box office looks like. Hell, you don't even need to go for low underperformers like John Carter or Tomorrowland, just look at Justice League for a high-grossing but massively disappointing, send-out-your-resumes performance. TLJ is nowhere near any of that.
Keep preaching in a vacuum my man
Zero fucks given.
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My point is they didn't even need to see what kind of success it was to sign him up to take over a huge chunk of Star Wars. Seeing his different take before fans did and deciding he's the guy tells you all you need to know about this "risk averse" stuff. Now that it is a giant success, he isn't going anywhere. Their faith was justified.
JJ loved what Rian did. There's no "fucking" going on here. Well, not in that sense at least.
The original Star Wars trilogy was made without a plan at all either, most long-term stories aren't, outside of the broad strokes. Like, fuck's sake, Vader being Luke's father wasn't even in the first draft of Empire, Lucas came up with that during a rewrite.
AOTC made $649m WW. TLJ is probably going to outgross that number in the US alone.
I did have a friend (who is not the kind of person to watch Star Wars) say he heard the movie was "divisive" so obviously some of the bad word of mouth from RT score and such is getting around. And obviously my experience is merely anecdotal and I'm under no illusion that everyone loves the film.
The character itself is fine (other than being a Dreamworks CG character), Lupita did great and ideally she would have been in a costume instead, but it was such an obvious missed opportunity to not have the Rey-Leia connection with the sabre serving as the bridge, considering how important it is to establish strong connections between the characters, and especially since Leia is the one who sends off Rey at the end. Get rid of the dumb rankar scene, you can still have Maz as the cantina owner with a bit more time and use her differently than with the whole "here's the sabre and I'm Yoda's alt".
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He seemed to like it much more than TFA. Said it was "beautifully made."
I think it hews closer to what he originally having envisioned the ST being. The first film, in his treatment, began with Luke training a young female padawan on a planet that looked just like Achc-To. JJ and Kennedy didn't so much throw out his ideas, as decide they needed to build up to them.
Not to mention this is the first SW film to be included in many many critic's end of year best of lists, it's got genuine rave reviews from tough critics, including all the "Best Since Empire!" nonsense. This shit matters in Hollywood, trust me. Bragging rights are a thing. Artistic cache and clout, even for something as critic-proof as Star Wars matters.
I read somewhere that he liked it. Don't remember where that was, tho.
I'm in the same boat. Granted I don't know everyone's opinion on the film as they may not have expressed it, but Star Wars fan and casual movie goer alike, people I personally know have all been very positive on the movie.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/h...thinks-last-jedi-was-beautifully-made-1067092
George said it was "beautifully made", which is actually high praise coming from a guy whose sense of artistry is primarily craftsmanship. He didn't talk any back-handed smack about it like he did with TFA.
They already have a connection because they're both force sensitive and care deeply about Han Solo. That is enough to justify their connection. No need to shoehorn in Anakin's lightsaber and cut the most easily plausible character who could have it, (a space pirate).
I haven't met anyone that glowed about it. General consensus is that it's well made but they didn't like the route they took with certain things. Even super casuals were like " who da fuk was Snoke?" And I've not run into anyone that digged the Rey parentage reveal. But anecdotes are anecdotes.
TLJ, a film that opened within 12.7% of TFA and 65 million above Rogue One barely beat out Rogue One in its 4 day spread for its 3rd week. That is a big decline no matter what.
TLJ is also consistently coming in slightly under projections
New Years 4 day spread (3rd week for both)
RO: 65.5 million
TLJ: 67.2 million
Openings
The Force Awakens: 248 million
The Last Jedi: 220 million
Rogue One: 155 million
Just like with Hamil, a lot of people want to plug their ears and cherry pick to suit their narrative.
TLJ is also consistently coming in slightly under projections
New Years 4 day spread (3rd week for both)
RO: 65.5 million
TLJ: 67.2 million
Openings
The Force Awakens: 248 million
The Last Jedi: 220 million
Rogue One: 155 million
Just like with Hamil, a lot of people want to plug their ears and cherry pick to suit their narrative.
I like your alternate fan-fic take on the movie, and I would have liked more Leia and Maz, but I still loved what we got. *shrug*
You didn't read anything I wrote for the past few pages, did you?
If you think that Trevorrow was fired because he COULDN'T think of a way to insert Leia's death then I don't know what I can tell you
There's troubling and then there's apocalyptic. You're all so hysterical and prone to hyperboles. Just chill, I just said that TLJ is underperforming box office-wise. Which is not controversial, considering how experts weight in the audience drop-offs.
I was also talking about Disney movies, so no mention of JL.
Yeah, maybe. Maybe, like Ridley Scott said, he's malleable and so very useful. I didn't say he'll get the boot definitely, just that we should take a more measured approach. I personally think their faith must be wavering now - at least the business people's - but it may as well calm down.
If living in a world where TLJ makes close to $650M domestic and finishes top 5/top 10 all time domestic/worldwide box office is a "vaccuum", then suck me up.
That's interesting. Guess he prefers bolder visions for how it all unfolds.
I've read all of it, and every poorly-conceived argument you've aimed at TLJ applies to Dead Man's Chest, and then some, and that film is an actual financial failure.
Thanks for summarizing your posts. :D
Well, unlike TFA, this one went along with his plot ideas. ;)
Im sorry, I think its a slap in the face to end a movie on a cliff hanger, and then turn it into slapstick comedy situation with Luke throwing the saber over the shoulder, its a coward move by Rian and shows a real lack of respect for your audience. The end of TFA had me in tears and he really ruined it.
It was the most un-Luke like thing he has ever done, it was jarring, and really set the tone for the back handedness which Rian handled the movie with.
I didn't appreciate being made to feel that my passion for star wars means nothing over the course of 2.5 hours. The theme of let the past die being hammered into every scene was something that bothered me to no end. The disrespect was something I was not prepared for.
It was the most un-Luke like thing he has ever done, it was jarring, and really set the tone for the back handedness which Rian handled the movie with.
I didn't appreciate being made to feel that my passion for star wars means nothing over the course of 2.5 hours. The theme of let the past die being hammered into every scene was something that bothered me to no end. The disrespect was something I was not prepared for.
Fair but we can't just look at one SW movie and not take into account how it's doinf against RO and TFA, I mean obvi there are things we can point to, but why shouldn't we point to them when looking at relative performance? SW always does huge, but I doubt that Disney is just looking at those numbers in isolation either.
That's the most Luke-like thing for THIS Luke to do. The Luke we're seeing here is a Luke that's suffered tragedy and isolated himself, he's not at the same place in his life that he was at in RotJ. The lightsaber toss is a GREAT moment, it immediately captures the essence of who Luke is now.
It's okay to feel this way. That's what fandom is. And guess what? A lot of people agree with you. What's done is done though, its a monstrously successful film financially and critically, and the fanbase itself seems torn on it. That's not a terrible place to be after the prequels. I hope you'll still watch X and I hope you enjoy it.
How awesome would it have been if he simply dropped in front of himself, and walked away? As if to say, no, I dont want this. Same effect without the stupidity of tossing it over his shoulder.
Dude you guys hyped Rian as this master filmmaker, with Looper.
If you think Rian Johnson is going to be fired over the "underwhelming" performance of what will inevitable be a top 20 worldwide (maybe even top 15) movie, you are fooling yourself. Other than the kind of people who come post on forums like this, most people cannot even tell you the name of the person who directed the movie they just saw, so changing the director for any reason other than creative differences, or appealing to super nerds who are a drop in the bucket financially, doesn't make any sense. Besides, they announced like 3 weeks before TLJ came out that RJ was getting his own trilogy. If they had any concerns, don't you think they could have just waited a few weeks and not announced it if they disliked the BO numbers?
None of this makes sense! You're catastrophizing something that by all accounts is a rousing success, and you're doing it for no discernible reason.
None of this makes sense! You're catastrophizing something that by all accounts is a rousing success, and you're doing it for no discernible reason.
That's the exact opposite of how I felt watching this movie and I've seen it three times now.
I've said it before: Disney probably wishes the numbers didn't drop as much from week one to week two, absolutely. But at the same time they still have to be very happy with the result. Top 10 worldwide all time is an incredible feat. A better second weekend drop maybe makes the difference between being Top 7-8 vs Top 10, but either way, it'll finish in there.
For sure. I guess my only comment would be what you're saying here and what Mockere is saying is like comparing Ben Rielly to Peter Parker.
You know, I'm pretty sure we'd get along just fine in real life XD
I love the way Luke threw away the lightsaber. One of the things that annoyed me about TFA was all the importance placed on Anakin's old lightsaber. Like it was some sort of mythical object. It was just another lasersword. Luke lost it in Empire, and then he had a new one in Jedi.
Ok. It's already made more domestically than Rogue One did in it's entire run. Such a failure.
Hit me the opposite way. It ignited a passion for this series I'd never had. That kind of difference in viewpoints is so good to me. If it really did follow along TFA's trajectory, I would have thought it's another fun, flawed, "one of those". Johnson made me excited to watch ep 9, but especially to see what he cooks up with his own trilogy.
Him throwing the saber over the shoulder wasn't silly/stupid at all.
See my last post, you want weight in that scene? Have Luke drop it right in front of Rey, and walk away, the toss was so horribly misplaced and miscalculated.
Bingo. Also seen TLJ 3 times, and I've never loved Star Wars more than I do right now. And this is speaking as someone who literally fell asleep every night as a kid by reading entries from the Star Wars Encyclopedia.
It's okay to have different opinions of this movie. And to the poster who expressed your opinions about how the lightsaber was handled, congratulations on expressing your point in a cogent way that wasn't just "muh plot holes!" like so many in this thread and elsewhere continue to do.
It is in no way a failure, it does indicate a troubling trend for the series, and lend credence that a worse reception than TFA likely plays a part.