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Star Wars |OT3| Somehow, this thread returned
- Thread starter WadiumArcadium
- Start date
- OT
C-3PO was pretty funny, like in the tunnels, "You didn't say my name, but I'm alright" when Poe's checking on if everyone's alive, and in a black hooded cloak. And of course Babu Frik.
I gotta say I laughed at "I'm going to find you and turn you to the dark side."
Stylistically, the editing style, pacing, and even dialogue still reminds me a lot of Revenge of the Sith. One of that movie's biggest faults is not giving its scenes enough time to breathe, it moves quickly from scene to scene, the last movie's main villain is killed fifteen minutes in, a new villain is introduced in the opening crawl, and it too has some weird humour.
Ha, I forgot about that joke.
But yeah, you are right about the movie when it comes to scenes in that area.
So assuming Exagol and Bendemption are kept, who's the final boss? The Knights of Ren?
Ha, that's another thing the movie could had done more with, hell I think they had less than 5 minutes of screen time.
Dark Rey and Kylo power couple formed from the dark side energies on Exegol
Lol.
But it would had felt like a sequel to TLJ then since they could go their own route with the story that could had been unique. Instead they didn't have an idea for a final boss so they brought him back and made the finale kind of like ROTJ but obviously not as good.
I think the whole "I am the sith/I am the jedi" line works.
but I totally understand if it doesn't work for people.
but I totally understand if it doesn't work for people.
Give me one with Finn. He'd be better for the game because he's presumably early in his training.
I wish LF/Disney were brave enough to do something like that. To have a game that is that canonically relevant and important and a direct sequel to a trilogy film.
Instead they'll be paralyzed for ten years because "well we didn't want to use it for a game when it could have been a movie." And inevitably bring back 40 year old Rey and Finn down the road with the order already semi-established, instead of giving us a proper story regarding it in the form of a variety of media.
I loved FO, but the story it set out to tell is kind of done. There's a very obvious and significant fallen order story that needs to be told following the events of TRoS.
IMO the only thing one wring it is how similar it is to Endgame. It's a nice parallel to Luke saying "I am a Jedi."
Posted these one and two years ago so I was pretty happy with the ending, lol
Also:
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I've spent some time this past week putting together every bit of story I could find about the December draft of Duel of the Fates. I watched the two videos Robert Burnett Meyer did, the Collider Rule of Two video, and read both of Making Star Wars' reports. The result is my newest Medium-hosted monstrosity. It's several thousand words recounting the story of Duel of the Fates, as best and as thorough as I could make it, illustrated with the leaked concept art.
Looking back on everything, Palpatine in Rise of Skywalker is honestly the opposite of how Maul went in The Clone Wars. Maul surviving his previous death isn't revealed until season 3 and he doesn't actually appear or become relevant until near the end of season 4, and then he became one of the most memorable parts of the show. While in Rise, Palpatine is revealed to still be alive in literally the first 10 seconds and the whole film is leading up to finding and stopping him, but then his entire appearance feels super rushed and forgettable.
Re-introducing him in the opening crawl was so lazy, I couldn't believe that's how JJ did it.
His appearance should have been a mystery, with Kylo finding him being a big reveal. In fact, in the early leaks, that's how it went down!
Force Center went over that and I agree, it is the completely wrong message.
I mean ROTJ ended with Luke redeeming Vader when Vader tortured his sister, had just threatened to turn her to the dark side, been evil for the past twenty years much longer than Ben, had Han tortured, cut Luke's hand off, Force choked Padme, killed younglings, etc. There's no kiss obviously but there's still father son love and then Vader goes to Force heaven.
The Duel of the Fates thing is far worse and less fitting for Star Wars then Rey kissing Ben after he turns back to the light and brought her back to life.
Do you mean that didn't make sense in the OT? If so, surely you agree it doesn't make sense in TROS either?
To me, the "romance" in TRoS is problematic. Star Wars' binary nature of redemption doesn't counteract the message of Rey embracing her abuser in current times.
Edit: to be clear, this isn't solely Rise of Skywalker issue. It was problematic in TLJ too, we just got the resolution in TRoS.
Further edit: I don't know how to mention usernames but Drewton, I don't think you can get away with negative messages by calling it a fairy tale today. Cartoons in the 50s had all kinds of racism but that's not okay in modern times. Neither is condoning abusers in Star Wars just because it's a nostalgic property. Little girls look up to Rey and to me, TRoS supports the misguided and antiquated notion that all a woman has to do is "fix" a man and all his abusive history will be washed away.
Edit: to be clear, this isn't solely Rise of Skywalker issue. It was problematic in TLJ too, we just got the resolution in TRoS.
Further edit: I don't know how to mention usernames but Drewton, I don't think you can get away with negative messages by calling it a fairy tale today. Cartoons in the 50s had all kinds of racism but that's not okay in modern times. Neither is condoning abusers in Star Wars just because it's a nostalgic property. Little girls look up to Rey and to me, TRoS supports the misguided and antiquated notion that all a woman has to do is "fix" a man and all his abusive history will be washed away.
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Its a tough area and I know everyone has deep opinions about it so I would never say your wrong to feel that way, for me I guess I hope all of us can be redeemed at some level. But in the story she didn't just metaphorically kill Rylo Ren she literally killed him and then proceeded to heal him, after which he was Ben again the man he was before he turned to the dark side. Feels very similar to how Luke embraced his father as Anakin and not Vader who was just as if not more abusive to Luke and Leia.
"Grey Jedi" concept is the complete opposite of everything Star Wars is as a mythology, so it isn't even close. I say this as someone who isn't a fan of the kiss at all.
The main take away from the Colin draft is...Colin had no fucking clue what Star Wars is. The Grey Jedi nonsense breaks Star Wars.
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I don't really fall on any side of the Reylo thing but I'm relatively staunchly opposed to "anti" discourse in movies. Describing Kylo as Rey's "abuser" is weird and feels like watering down actual real-life abuse by correlating fantasical sci-fi scenarios and "movie behavior" with real-life abusive behavior.
I do get that, and the part about killing Kylo is certainly a subtly in the story. I think the rampant Reylo shipping that came out of TLJ (and probably before) indicates to me that that part is irrelevant to so many people. That because he's the lead male and she's the lead female, they should be romantically involved though he was clearly far from redemption in TLJ and still manipulating and abusing her.
We need to remember, for better or worse, TROS is canon and will always be canon. And is a saga film alongside A New Hope, Empire Strikes Back, etc.
There are no what-ifs that are going to change this.
There are no what-ifs that are going to change this.
Absolutely
And this too.
Looking forward to the opinions of young people who will have always known this to be the story.
The most abusive thing he does is the mind interrogation in TFA I think.
I honestly can't fathom how anyone can watch the movies and think "Yeah Grey Jedis, makes sense". The entire saga to date has contrary to that ideology.
Colin Trevorrow never understood what Star Wars was and was fired for good reason.
Im, sure there is some of that, im sure it's similar to the Joker/Harley stuff some like toxic relationships in media. I really wish Ben had survived so this stuff could have been addressed going forward... we never get to see a villain turn and then have to face the darkside they now reject.
Even beyond the saga! all the TV shows, comics, games it's all the same the balance is not accepting you have to use the dark side.
It is. But he also continues to manipulate her throughout all of TLJ. It's an unhealthy relationship where he preys on a person longing for connection. I mean, it's not some kind of on screen domestic abuse but I think I'd have much less of a problem if they're relationship didn't culminate in a kiss. The movie could have demonstrated the potential for love between Rey and a freshly redeemed Ben with some other demonstration of care.
Also, how does Rey know redemption is Star Wars is so binary? Has she seen Star Wars? I guess I'm just saying that it could have been handled in a slightly different manner and portrayed that moment in a way that was a little more modern.
I would have loved to see Rey's relationship with a redeemed Ben grow over time as he faces the consequences of his past life. It's something we haven't really seen in canon and I think it would have been some great new territory to be able to explore.
Part two of my second trip to Kashyyyk, climbing the Origin Tree and facing the Ninth Sister.
twitter thread. please read everything rhodanum wrote, not just the first tweet.
You are perpetuating paternalistic sexism with the antiquated belief that 'little girls' are susceptible to undue influence by the media they consume, over say, little boys. Don't see you (or anyone else) pearl-clutching over the many young boys who idolise Kylo Ren as cool and carry lunchboxes and pencil cases emblazoned with his image on them. After all, he was groomed and abused by Snoke/Palpatine as a child, but men are rarely regarded as the perpetual victim... this regularly manifests in conversations about female characters, however. A whole generation of middle-aged men, once boys who idolised Vader, just about creamed their undies at the violent fanservice scene in Rogue One - not a peep, in fact it was celebrated. This bullshit is old as time, men used to attempt to regulate and ban women and girls from reading early works of published fiction due to the fear it would teach them the "wrong" (read: undesirable) way to be a woman in relation to men. It is literally fucking harmless, a generation of girls loving Beauty and the Beast or whatever is not the cause of domestic abuse and violence today. Media is not an entirety of a child's education. On the comparatively rare occasion that male-targeted works come under similarly midguided accusations - video games cause violence, Joker movie will inspire shootings, etc - they are widely ridiculed for the absurd puritanical nonsense it is. As a woman, this shit is tiring and insulting.
I agree for that and more reasons, I have to imagine that killed off Ben because Adam wanted a hard out or something.
The former seemed pretty obvious with how much we know: no Oracle, Kylo's quest, cut dialogue between Hux and Pryde (confirmed by Gleeson and Grant). The latter bit makes it pretty funny.
Ok, going to be a long post, but I wanted to compile a comprehensive overview from various sources of what was reshot, cut, and changed over the course of post-production.
- The Luke and Leia training flashback scenes opened the movie. They have actual dialogue, Leia gives up her Jedi training due to the fact that she's pregnant with a son.
- We then cut - I wouldn't be surprised if it was to this exact shot - to Leia in present day training Rey. Rey is struggling with mental training, but it's not until it's added in reshoots that Rey is struggling trying to communicate with the past Jedi. The editor, Maryann Brandon, confirmed that this scene was reshot.
- Cut to Mustafar. Hux and Pryde are with Kylo at first, and it's made clear that he has been spending his time as supreme leader with the purpose of locating a dark power behind his former master, Snoke. Hux and Pryde are beginning to be frustrated by what they see as a fool's errand, and a waste of First Order time and resources.
- From the visual dictionary: HUX: "He's gone mad. Flames of rebellion burn across the galaxy and Ren chases a ghost."
- Kylo outpaces Hux, Pryde, and his stormtrooper escort, and heads toward Darth Vader's castle as seen in Rogue One. He obtains the wayfinder from the Oracle, a wayfinder that once belonged to Darth Vader.
- Alternate cut version: Kylo obtains the wayfinder from a chest as seen in the movie but gets flashbacks to Luke and Han, and then hears Palpatine's voice calling to him.
- The reshoots at Black Park, England, for this scene were done in August.
- Cut to the ice asteroid base scene with Boolio.
- Kylo then finds the Emperor on Exegol, and it's a very different scene before reshoots. The Emperor is lying on a bed tended to by cloaked aids, Sith Loyalists. Palpatine identifies himself as Darth Sidious. Kylo feels that this must be a trick, but Palpatine refutes the idea of him being a clone and says that he survived his fall.
- Maryann Brandon, the editor, on Palpatine: "It was kind of a delicate balance and went back and forth a lot about how much we wanted to reveal. Some scenes changed quite a bit, the way that we wanted to present it to the audience. In the end, we ended up showing a lot less of it than we started with. [There was originally] a little more information about it, what was keeping [Palpatine] alive, [but] it seemed to go off topic."
- At one point it sounds like Palpatine said: "I am Snoke."
- How the idea of Snoke as a clone came up, per Maryann: "I just think that came up as a visual effect that we thought would be really fun for an audience, to create a visual that would tell that whole story. I believe that's successful. We didn't have to change a lot of dialogue. You just see one shot [...] and you kind of get it."
- Palpatine tells Kylo of the "Force Dyad" - Rey and Kylo - and says that when they unite together they both become stronger than either one could be on their own. Palpatine says that he wants the Dyad to rule together And to be a strong, unified force of darkness. He mocks his "let the past die" mentality.
- Palpatine has spent the last thirty years creating a fleet of Death Star Destroyers. General Hux and Pryde are tasked with rounding up children in large numbers to train and staff his armada.
- We cut to Finn and Poe on Ajan Kloss saying that they've been in contact with a First Order informant. The mole says Kylo has come into the possession of a wayfinder.
- Reshoots in the jungle area of Black Park, England for Ajan Kloss, were conducted in late July, and Oscar Isaac and John Boyega were both seen.
- Rey cutting down a tree in anger was part of the reshoot, as is the scene with Rey and Poe arguing over damage done to the Falcon and BB-8.
- The "somehow Palpatine returned" scene is a reshoot. One deleted part: Finn voices his concern over the children being kidnapped to staff the fleet.
- I've got nothing else on this, but this picture showed early on seems to be of a deleted scene with Rey talking to Rose.
- Before the reshoot, Poe and Finn tell Leia simply about the wayfinder and Leia decides to send Rey. She puts the team in contact with someone on Pasaana, a contact who was seeking a link to the Unknown Regions long ago and may be willing to help.
- Probably a reshoot: Rey finding Luke investigating a Sith way-finder in the Jedi texts.
- Deleted scene: Maz Kanata gives Rey a pep talk before she leaves for Pasaana.
- This scene was probably cut in favour of the Sith board room scene, which was a reshoot to answer the question of what happened to Boolio and show Kylo's standing in the First Order. It also introduces Pryde now that his introduction on Mustafar was cut. It's possible Adam Driver wasn't even needed for this reshoot, only for ADR.
- On Pasaana, Lando tells the team the same story about Luke and Ochi that's in the movie but also says that he had a young child at the time of his and Luke's quest. While they were out searching for the Sith wayfinder, the First Order stole his child. Lando stayed on Pasaana ever since. He believes that the First Order had the goal of turning children of the heroes of the Rebellion into their own enemies as a form of revenge. "The First Order went after us - leaders from the old wars. They took our kids." The story strikes a chord with Finn, having himself been taken away from his own family. Lando then points them in the direction of Ochi's ship, like in the final cut.
- Kylo initiates a Force mind bond with Rey while she's on Kijimi to find her location and tells her about Ochi killing her parents. Kylo figures out her location and his Star Destroyer arrives.
- Kylo says that Ochi was sent to find and recover Rey, not kill her. She is still wanted for the darkness that resides within her.
- As the team leaves Kijimi, we see children being rounded up according to Palpatine's orders to Hux and Pryde.
- Kylo is fully committed to the Emperor's mission, and tells Rey that they are meant to join together in the dark side and that it's part of the Emperor's plan.
- Personal speculation which I can't be certain about: Kylo offering Rey his hand and Rey escaping jumping to the Falcon may have been part of a reshoot.
- It sounds like Kylo killed Hux for treason, not Pryde, and that it was during this point of the story that the Emperor contacted Pryde and ordered him to destroy Kijimi as an act of loyalty as the new commander of the military.
- Cut from the version of Pryde killing Hux: afterwards, Hux tells Kylo that they're able to know where the Resistance is going because they've scanned the dagger.
- It's possibly revealed that Jannah is revealed to be Lando's daughter early on when the team meets her on Endor.
- Originally it sounds like after defeating Kylo, Rey instead told him that she will never be like him and fall to the dark side. Another reason I believe Kylo offering his hand may have been part of a reshoot.
- Deleted scene: Leia reflecting on Han Solo's medal.
- Luke was to say goodbye to Leia in her death scene possibly through a voice over, this was cut.
- Luke's scene on the island was reshot, as confirmed by the editor. I believe it's everything in between Luke catching the lightsaber and lifting the X-wing.
- The conversation between Luke and Rey was slightly different. Luke tells Rey that she must confront Palpatine in the same way that he confronted his father. He encourages Rey by telling her of Leia's faith in her, that she hoped Leia would restore balance to the Force once more just as Anakin had. Leia knowing of Rey to be a Palpatine was most likely added in the reshoot.
- Some of the original dialogue:
- LUKE: What are you doing?
REY: You were right, you saw the darkness in me. - LUKE: The Force brought us together. You need to face Sidious as I faced Vader.
- REY: I wanted to feel as if I was as strong as Master Leia, but I'm not.
- LUKE: You don't know how strong you are until you know how strong you have to be. Sidious will fill you with fear, with anger, and he'll use your weaknesses against you.
- REY: What are his?
- LUKE: Sidious looked into Vader's eyes when my father saved me, he couldn't understand my father's feelings for me. He thought love was a weakness to be used.
- LUKE: What are you doing?
- Rey asks to speak to Leia, but Luke says that Leia has not yet completed her training and he can't yet feel feel her distinctive consciousness within the Force.
- Luke always gave Rey Leia's lightsaber.
- On Exogol, Ben dispatches the Knights of Ren using only the Force and enters the arena just as Rey is about to strike Palpatine down using Leia's lightsaber. Ben grabs Anakin's lightsaber and warns Rey to reconsider and to not kill the Emperor in anger. Palpatine then siphons the power from their bond as in the final cut.
- This still sounds wild to me, but it was reported a few times by the #1 TROS leaker that Luke and Leia show up to aid Rey and deflect the lightning back into the emperor, killing him. If this was filmed and cut, this could be a major reason why we haven't heard Mark Hamill talk about the movie.
- As Rey's first scene in the movie trying to communicate with the past Jedi was a reshoot, it's very possible that the scene of Rey being revived by the past Jedi was a reshoot, especially since it ends with "I am all the Sith" and "I am all the Jedi."
- I'm really not sure about if Rey kissing Ben was part of a reshoot. If the original cut actually had Luke and Leia defeating Palpatine, it doesn't make sense to me that Ben would have to crawl out of the pit to resurrect her, and until very late leakers said Ben was never to be seen again after falling into the pit. The editor said this about the kiss: "I always said, 'The movie will tell us whether they should kiss or not. We will know by the time we get to the end of our process, if it should happen.' And I felt it should, and [director J.J. Abrams] agreed with me, and other people who saw the film agreed."
- Take this one with a big grain of salt, but according to the #1 TROS leaker JediPaxis the ending scene was slightly different. Rey turns to join Finn, Poe, Jannah, Chewie, R2, 3PO, BB-8, and D-0 when a stranger calls out to her on Tatooine. She names herself Rey Skywalker before seeing the ghosts of Luke and Leia. The assembled heroes watch the twin suns set together. Again, take this one with a lot of salt since it was only one person reporting this.
- Heavy shifting around of scenes in the opening twenty minutes.
- Palpatine's first scene was heavily reshot, no longer telling Kylo about the Force Dyad and telling him to kill Rey instead of bringing her to him.
- Leia originally sent the team to Pasaana specifically to find a contact, Lando.
- Cut dialogue of Lando talking about his daughter stolen by the First Order.
- Kylo offering Rey his hand on the Star Destroyer, Rey telling him "I wanted to take your hand, Ben's hand", and the kiss scene with Rey taking Ben's hand, are all linked and either weren't included in early very detailed, accurate leaks or contradicted what was there.
- Two more linked moments are when Rey says "be with me" - first in her opening scene, then the climax with Palpatine. The first being definitely a reshoot, the second being very probably a reshoot. It seems the voices of the past Jedi replaced Luke and Leia actually fighting Palpatine as ghosts.
- Again, Luke and Leia aiding Rey in the fight sounded wild, but it makes a little more sense considering that Luke training Leia was going to be the opening of the movie.
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Cheers for this. I never read the leaks and got completely lost with all the rumours lolOk, going to be a long post, but I wanted to compile a comprehensive overview from various sources of what was reshot, cut, and changed over the course of post-production.
- The Luke and Leia training flashback scenes opened the movie. They have actual dialogue, Leia gives up her Jedi training due to the fact that she's pregnant with a son.
- We then cut - I wouldn't be surprised if it was to this exact shot - to Leia in present day training Rey. Rey is struggling with mental training, but it's not until it's added in reshoots that Rey is struggling trying to communicate with the past Jedi. The editor, Maryann Brandon, confirmed that this scene was reshot.
- Cut to Mustafar. Hux and Pryde are with Kylo at first, and it's made clear that he has been spending his time as supreme leader with the purpose of locating a dark power behind his former master, Snoke. Hux and Pryde are beginning to be frustrated by what they see as a fool's errand, and a waste of First Order time and resources.
- From the visual dictionary: HUX: "He's gone mad. Flames of rebellion burn across the galaxy and Ren chases a ghost."
- Kylo outpaces Hux, Pryde, and his stormtrooper escort, and heads toward Darth Vader's castle as seen in Rogue One. He obtains the wayfinder from the Oracle, a wayfinder that once belonged to Darth Vader.
- Alternate cut version: Kylo obtains the wayfinder from a chest as seen in the movie but gets flashbacks to Luke and Han, and then hears Palpatine's voice calling to him.
- The reshoots at Black Park, England, for this scene were done in August.
- Cut to the ice asteroid base scene with Boolio.
- Kylo then finds the Emperor on Exegol, and it's a very different scene before reshoots. The Emperor is lying on a bed tended to by cloaked aids, Sith Loyalists. Palpatine identifies himself as Darth Sidious. Kylo feels that this must be a trick, but Palpatine refutes the idea of him being a clone and says that he survived his fall.
- Maryann Brandon, the editor, on Palpatine: "It was kind of a delicate balance and went back and forth a lot about how much we wanted to reveal. Some scenes changed quite a bit, the way that we wanted to present it to the audience. In the end, we ended up showing a lot less of it than we started with. [There was originally] a little more information about it, what was keeping [Palpatine] alive, [but] it seemed to go off topic."
- At one point it sounds like Palpatine said: "I am Snoke.
- How the idea of Snoke as a clone came up, per Maryann: "I just think that came up as a visual effect that we thought would be really fun for an audience, to create a visual that would tell that whole story. I believe that's successful. We didn't have to change a lot of dialogue. You just see one shot [...] and you kind of get it."
- Palpatine tells Kylo of the "Force Dyad" - Rey and Kylo - and says that when they unite together they both become stronger than either one could be on their own. Palpatine says that he wants the Dyad to rule together And to be a strong, unified force of darkness. He mocks his "let the past die" mentality.
- Palpatine has spent the last thirty years creating a fleet of Death Star Destroyers. General Hux and Pryde are tasked with rounding up children in large numbers to train and staff his armada.
- We cut to Finn and Poe on Ajan Kloss saying that they've been in contact with a First Order informant. The mole says Kylo has come into the possession of a wayfinder.
- Reshoots in the jungle area of Black Park, England for Ajan Kloss, were conducted in late July, and Oscar Isaac and John Boyega were both seen.
- Rey cutting down a tree in anger was part of the reshoot, as is the scene with Rey and Poe arguing over damage done to the Falcon and BB-8.
- The "somehow Palpatine returned" scene is a reshoot. One deleted part: Finn voices his concern over the children being kidnapped to staff the fleet.
- I've got nothing else on this, but this picture showed early on seems to be of a deleted scene with Rey talking to Rose.
- Before the reshoot, Poe and Finn tell Leia simply about the wayfinder and Leia decides to send Rey. She puts the team in contact with someone on Pasaana, a contact who was seeking a link to the Unknown Regions long ago and may be willing to help.
- Probably a reshoot: Rey finding Luke investigating a Sith way-finder in the Jedi texts.
- Deleted scene: Maz Kanata gives Rey a pep talk before she leaves for Pasaana.
- This scene was probably cut in favour of the Sith board room scene, which was a reshoot to answer the question of what happened to Boolio and show Kylo's standing in the First Order. It also introduces Pryde now that his introduction on Mustafar was cut. It's possible Adam Driver wasn't even needed for this reshoot, only for ADR.
- On Pasaana, Lando tells the team the same story about Luke and Ochi that's in the movie but also says that he had a young child at the time of his and Luke's quest. While they were out searching for the Sith wayfinder, the First Order stole his child. Lando stayed on Pasaana ever since. He believes that the First Order had the goal of turning children of the heroes of the Rebellion into their own enemies as a form of revenge. The story strikes a chord with Finn, having himself been taken away from his own family. Lando then points them in the direction of Ochi's ship, like in the final cut.
- Kylo initiates a Force mind bond with Rey while she's on Kijimi to find her location and tells her about Ochi killing her parents. Kylo figures out her location and his Star Destroyer arrives.
- Kylo says that Ochi was sent to find and recover Rey, not kill her. She is still wanted for the darkness that resides within her.
- As the team leaves Kijimi, we see children being rounded up according to Palpatine's orders to Hux and Pryde.
- Kylo is fully committed to the Emperor's mission, and tells Rey that they are meant to join together in the dark side and that it's part of the Emperor's plan.
- Personal speculation which I can't be certain about: Kylo offering Rey his hand and Rey escaping jumping to the Falcon may have been part of a reshoot.
- It sounds like Kylo killed Hux for treason, not Pryde, and that it was during this point of the story that the Emperor contacted Pryde and ordered him to destroy Kijimi as an act of loyalty as the new commander of the military.
- Cut from the version of Pryde killing Hux: afterwards, Hux tells Kylo that they're able to know where the Resistance is going because they've scanned the dagger.
- It's possibly revealed that Jannah is revealed to be Lando's daughter early on when the team meets her on Endor.
- Originally it sounds like after defeating Kylo, Rey instead told him that she will never be like him and fall to the dark side. Another reason I believe Kylo offering his hand may have been part of a reshoot.
- Luke was to say goodbye to Leia in her death scene possibly through a voice over, this was cut.
- Luke's scene on the island was reshot, as confirmed by the editor. I believe it's everything in between Luke catching the lightsaber and lifting the X-wing.
- The conversation between Luke and Rey was slightly different. Luke tells Rey that she must confront Palpatine in the same way that he confronted his father. He encourages Rey by telling her of Leia's faith in her, that she hoped Leia would restore balance to the Force once more just as Anakin had. Leia knowing of Rey to be a Palpatine was most likely added in the reshoot.
- Some of the original dialogue:
- LUKE: What are you doing?
REY: You were right, you saw the darkness in me.- LUKE: The Force brought us together. You need to face Sidious as I faced Vader.
- REY: I wanted to feel as if I was as strong as Master Leia, but I'm not.
- LUKE: You don't know how strong you are until you know how strong you have to be. Sidious will fill you with fear, with anger, and he'll use your weaknesses against you.
- REY: What are his?
- LUKE: Sidious looked into Vader's eyes when my father saved me, he couldn't understand my father's feelings for me. He thought love was a weakness to be used.
- Rey asks to speak to Leia, but Luke says that Leia has not yet completed her training and he can't yet feel feel her distinctive consciousness within the Force.
- Luke always gave Rey Leia's lightsaber.
Just to summarize some important parts:
- On Exogol, Ben dispatches the Knights of Ren using only the Force and enters the arena just as Rey is about to strike Palpatine down using Leia's lightsaber. Ben grabs Anakin's lightsaber and warns Rey to reconsider and to not kill the Emperor in anger. Palpatine then siphons the power from their bond as in the final cut.
- This still sounds wild to me, but it was reported a few times by the #1 TROS leaker that Luke and Leia show up to aid Rey and deflect the lightning back into the emperor, killing him. If this was filmed and cut, this could be a major reason why we haven't heard Mark Hamill talk about the movie.
- As Rey's first scene in the movie trying to communicate with the past Jedi was a reshoot, it's very possible that the scene of Rey being revived by the past Jedi was a reshoot, especially since it ends with "I am all the Sith" and "I am all the Jedi."
- I'm really not sure about if Rey kissing Ben was part of a reshoot. If the original cut actually had Luke and Leia defeating Palpatine, it doesn't make sense to me that Ben would have to crawl out of the pit to resurrect her, and until very late leakers said Ben was never to be seen again after falling into the pit. The editor said this about the kiss: "I always said, 'The movie will tell us whether they should kiss or not. We will know by the time we get to the end of our process, if it should happen.' And I felt it should, and [director J.J. Abrams] agreed with me, and other people who saw the film agreed."
- Take this one with a big grain of salt, but according to the #1 TROS leaker JediPaxis the ending scene was slightly different. Rey turns to join Finn, Poe, Jannah, Chewie, R2, 3PO, BB-8, and D-0 when a stranger calls out to her on Tatooine. She names herself Rey Skywalker before seeing the ghosts of Luke and Leia. The assembled heroes watch the twin suns set together. Again, take this one with a lot of salt since it was only one person reporting this.
My thoughts: I think I'm on board with or understand most of the changes, but my favourite thing that was cut here is the opening, and not because it featured some Bloodborne-esque oracle. It sounds like the interaction with Hux and Pryde could have really helped for his character development, setting him up as kind of lost, searching for a voice that he'd heard his whole life that he had assumed was Snoke, but it didn't end when Snoke died, while making him look mad to Hux and Pryde. Also helps that focusing on finding the source of Snoke's power for the past year would have distracted him from being actively evil. The line "flames of rebellion burn across the galaxy and Ren chases a ghost" also establishes from the get go that Luke inspired people.
- Heavy shifting around of scenes in the opening twenty minutes.
- Palpatine's first scene was heavily reshot, no longer telling Kylo about the Force Dyad and telling him to kill Rey instead of bringing her to him.
- Leia originally sent the team to Pasaana specifically to find a contact, Lando.
- Cut dialogue of Lando talking about his daughter stolen by the First Order.
- Kylo offering Rey his hand on the Star Destroyer, Rey telling him "I wanted to take your hand, Ben's hand", and the kiss scene with Rey taking Ben's hand, are all linked and either weren't included in early very detailed, accurate leaks or contradicted what was there.
- Two more linked moments are when Rey says "be with me" - first in her opening scene, then the climax with Palpatine. The first being definitely a reshoot, the second being very probably a reshoot. It seems the voices of the past Jedi replaced Luke and Leia actually fighting Palpatine as ghosts.
- Again, Luke and Leia aiding Rey in the fight sounded wild, but it makes a little more sense considering that Luke training Leia was going to be the opening of the movie.
Yes there is. The problem with grey jedi is not the name but the concept. Which is 100% in his script. Colin had no clue what Star Wars is as a mythology and got fired. Let's move on.
We didn't get that movie. We have the TROS we have and it is the only Episode IX we will ever have. I don't think much of anyone else in this thread wants more endless negativity and pining about movies that never were. This is the Star Wars thread to escape the hot take negativity.
Ok, going to be a long post, but I wanted to compile a comprehensive overview from various sources of what was reshot, cut, and changed over the course of post-production.
- The Luke and Leia training flashback scenes opened the movie. They have actual dialogue, Leia gives up her Jedi training due to the fact that she's pregnant with a son.
- We then cut - I wouldn't be surprised if it was to this exact shot - to Leia in present day training Rey. Rey is struggling with mental training, but it's not until it's added in reshoots that Rey is struggling trying to communicate with the past Jedi. The editor, Maryann Brandon, confirmed that this scene was reshot.
- Cut to Mustafar. Hux and Pryde are with Kylo at first, and it's made clear that he has been spending his time as supreme leader with the purpose of locating a dark power behind his former master, Snoke. Hux and Pryde are beginning to be frustrated by what they see as a fool's errand, and a waste of First Order time and resources.
- From the visual dictionary: HUX: "He's gone mad. Flames of rebellion burn across the galaxy and Ren chases a ghost."
- Kylo outpaces Hux, Pryde, and his stormtrooper escort, and heads toward Darth Vader's castle as seen in Rogue One. He obtains the wayfinder from the Oracle, a wayfinder that once belonged to Darth Vader.
- Alternate cut version: Kylo obtains the wayfinder from a chest as seen in the movie but gets flashbacks to Luke and Han, and then hears Palpatine's voice calling to him.
- The reshoots at Black Park, England, for this scene were done in August.
- Cut to the ice asteroid base scene with Boolio.
- Kylo then finds the Emperor on Exegol, and it's a very different scene before reshoots. The Emperor is lying on a bed tended to by cloaked aids, Sith Loyalists. Palpatine identifies himself as Darth Sidious. Kylo feels that this must be a trick, but Palpatine refutes the idea of him being a clone and says that he survived his fall.
- Maryann Brandon, the editor, on Palpatine: "It was kind of a delicate balance and went back and forth a lot about how much we wanted to reveal. Some scenes changed quite a bit, the way that we wanted to present it to the audience. In the end, we ended up showing a lot less of it than we started with. [There was originally] a little more information about it, what was keeping [Palpatine] alive, [but] it seemed to go off topic."
- At one point it sounds like Palpatine said: "I am Snoke.
- How the idea of Snoke as a clone came up, per Maryann: "I just think that came up as a visual effect that we thought would be really fun for an audience, to create a visual that would tell that whole story. I believe that's successful. We didn't have to change a lot of dialogue. You just see one shot [...] and you kind of get it."
- Palpatine tells Kylo of the "Force Dyad" - Rey and Kylo - and says that when they unite together they both become stronger than either one could be on their own. Palpatine says that he wants the Dyad to rule together And to be a strong, unified force of darkness. He mocks his "let the past die" mentality.
- Palpatine has spent the last thirty years creating a fleet of Death Star Destroyers. General Hux and Pryde are tasked with rounding up children in large numbers to train and staff his armada.
- We cut to Finn and Poe on Ajan Kloss saying that they've been in contact with a First Order informant. The mole says Kylo has come into the possession of a wayfinder.
- Reshoots in the jungle area of Black Park, England for Ajan Kloss, were conducted in late July, and Oscar Isaac and John Boyega were both seen.
- Rey cutting down a tree in anger was part of the reshoot, as is the scene with Rey and Poe arguing over damage done to the Falcon and BB-8.
- The "somehow Palpatine returned" scene is a reshoot. One deleted part: Finn voices his concern over the children being kidnapped to staff the fleet.
- I've got nothing else on this, but this picture showed early on seems to be of a deleted scene with Rey talking to Rose.
- Before the reshoot, Poe and Finn tell Leia simply about the wayfinder and Leia decides to send Rey. She puts the team in contact with someone on Pasaana, a contact who was seeking a link to the Unknown Regions long ago and may be willing to help.
- Probably a reshoot: Rey finding Luke investigating a Sith way-finder in the Jedi texts.
- Deleted scene: Maz Kanata gives Rey a pep talk before she leaves for Pasaana.
- This scene was probably cut in favour of the Sith board room scene, which was a reshoot to answer the question of what happened to Boolio and show Kylo's standing in the First Order. It also introduces Pryde now that his introduction on Mustafar was cut. It's possible Adam Driver wasn't even needed for this reshoot, only for ADR.
- On Pasaana, Lando tells the team the same story about Luke and Ochi that's in the movie but also says that he had a young child at the time of his and Luke's quest. While they were out searching for the Sith wayfinder, the First Order stole his child. Lando stayed on Pasaana ever since. He believes that the First Order had the goal of turning children of the heroes of the Rebellion into their own enemies as a form of revenge. The story strikes a chord with Finn, having himself been taken away from his own family. Lando then points them in the direction of Ochi's ship, like in the final cut.
- Kylo initiates a Force mind bond with Rey while she's on Kijimi to find her location and tells her about Ochi killing her parents. Kylo figures out her location and his Star Destroyer arrives.
- Kylo says that Ochi was sent to find and recover Rey, not kill her. She is still wanted for the darkness that resides within her.
- As the team leaves Kijimi, we see children being rounded up according to Palpatine's orders to Hux and Pryde.
- Kylo is fully committed to the Emperor's mission, and tells Rey that they are meant to join together in the dark side and that it's part of the Emperor's plan.
- Personal speculation which I can't be certain about: Kylo offering Rey his hand and Rey escaping jumping to the Falcon may have been part of a reshoot.
- It sounds like Kylo killed Hux for treason, not Pryde, and that it was during this point of the story that the Emperor contacted Pryde and ordered him to destroy Kijimi as an act of loyalty as the new commander of the military.
- Cut from the version of Pryde killing Hux: afterwards, Hux tells Kylo that they're able to know where the Resistance is going because they've scanned the dagger.
- It's possibly revealed that Jannah is revealed to be Lando's daughter early on when the team meets her on Endor.
- Originally it sounds like after defeating Kylo, Rey instead told him that she will never be like him and fall to the dark side. Another reason I believe Kylo offering his hand may have been part of a reshoot.
- Luke was to say goodbye to Leia in her death scene possibly through a voice over, this was cut.
- Luke's scene on the island was reshot, as confirmed by the editor. I believe it's everything in between Luke catching the lightsaber and lifting the X-wing.
- The conversation between Luke and Rey was slightly different. Luke tells Rey that she must confront Palpatine in the same way that he confronted his father. He encourages Rey by telling her of Leia's faith in her, that she hoped Leia would restore balance to the Force once more just as Anakin had. Leia knowing of Rey to be a Palpatine was most likely added in the reshoot.
- Some of the original dialogue:
- LUKE: What are you doing?
REY: You were right, you saw the darkness in me.- LUKE: The Force brought us together. You need to face Sidious as I faced Vader.
- REY: I wanted to feel as if I was as strong as Master Leia, but I'm not.
- LUKE: You don't know how strong you are until you know how strong you have to be. Sidious will fill you with fear, with anger, and he'll use your weaknesses against you.
- REY: What are his?
- LUKE: Sidious looked into Vader's eyes when my father saved me, he couldn't understand my father's feelings for me. He thought love was a weakness to be used.
- Rey asks to speak to Leia, but Luke says that Leia has not yet completed her training and he can't yet feel feel her distinctive consciousness within the Force.
- Luke always gave Rey Leia's lightsaber.
Just to summarize some important parts:
- On Exogol, Ben dispatches the Knights of Ren using only the Force and enters the arena just as Rey is about to strike Palpatine down using Leia's lightsaber. Ben grabs Anakin's lightsaber and warns Rey to reconsider and to not kill the Emperor in anger. Palpatine then siphons the power from their bond as in the final cut.
- This still sounds wild to me, but it was reported a few times by the #1 TROS leaker that Luke and Leia show up to aid Rey and deflect the lightning back into the emperor, killing him. If this was filmed and cut, this could be a major reason why we haven't heard Mark Hamill talk about the movie.
- As Rey's first scene in the movie trying to communicate with the past Jedi was a reshoot, it's very possible that the scene of Rey being revived by the past Jedi was a reshoot, especially since it ends with "I am all the Sith" and "I am all the Jedi."
- I'm really not sure about if Rey kissing Ben was part of a reshoot. If the original cut actually had Luke and Leia defeating Palpatine, it doesn't make sense to me that Ben would have to crawl out of the pit to resurrect her, and until very late leakers said Ben was never to be seen again after falling into the pit. The editor said this about the kiss: "I always said, 'The movie will tell us whether they should kiss or not. We will know by the time we get to the end of our process, if it should happen.' And I felt it should, and [director J.J. Abrams] agreed with me, and other people who saw the film agreed."
- Take this one with a big grain of salt, but according to the #1 TROS leaker JediPaxis the ending scene was slightly different. Rey turns to join Finn, Poe, Jannah, Chewie, R2, 3PO, BB-8, and D-0 when a stranger calls out to her on Tatooine. She names herself Rey Skywalker before seeing the ghosts of Luke and Leia. The assembled heroes watch the twin suns set together. Again, take this one with a lot of salt since it was only one person reporting this.
My thoughts: I think I'm on board with or understand most of the changes, but my favourite thing that was cut here is the opening, and not because it featured some Bloodborne-esque oracle. It sounds like the interaction with Hux and Pryde could have really helped for his character development, setting him up as kind of lost, searching for a voice that he'd heard his whole life that he had assumed was Snoke, but it didn't end when Snoke died, while making him look mad to Hux and Pryde. Also helps that focusing on finding the source of Snoke's power for the past year would have distracted him from being actively evil. The line "flames of rebellion burn across the galaxy and Ren chases a ghost" also establishes from the get go that Luke inspired people.
- Heavy shifting around of scenes in the opening twenty minutes.
- Palpatine's first scene was heavily reshot, no longer telling Kylo about the Force Dyad and telling him to kill Rey instead of bringing her to him.
- Leia originally sent the team to Pasaana specifically to find a contact, Lando.
- Cut dialogue of Lando talking about his daughter stolen by the First Order.
- Kylo offering Rey his hand on the Star Destroyer, Rey telling him "I wanted to take your hand, Ben's hand", and the kiss scene with Rey taking Ben's hand, are all linked and either weren't included in early very detailed, accurate leaks or contradicted what was there.
- Two more linked moments are when Rey says "be with me" - first in her opening scene, then the climax with Palpatine. The first being definitely a reshoot, the second being very probably a reshoot. It seems the voices of the past Jedi replaced Luke and Leia actually fighting Palpatine as ghosts.
- Again, Luke and Leia aiding Rey in the fight sounded wild, but it makes a little more sense considering that Luke training Leia was going to be the opening of the movie.
Thanks for the summary, I had no idea the leaks were this extensive!
It feels like they found themselves in a trap where every scene they tried to cut was somehow related to another scene they wanted to keep. Chop out this thread for time and you lose the setup for that thread over there, so they either had to write new material to cover the gap without introducing more inconsistencies, or just leave it as is hope for the best.
It'll be fascinating to see how much of this stuff, if any, ends up as Deleted Scenes or any other kind of special features on the home release. There's a lot that I'd love to see, if only just to know what it looks like and keep torturing myself with what-ifs. I'm guessing a lot of it wouldn't be in any kind of finished state, but Deleted Scenes often have unfinished effects so it's not impossible. I'd love to see some of those extra scenes on Mustafar, the original Luke scene, Ben's Force-only fight with the Knights...