Well that's like your opinion man. I liked the new Star Wars movies. Give me more. Thanks.
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Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order -- Lucasfilm Was Originally Resistant To The Idea
- Thread starter dex3108
- Start date
Of course the same individuals don't make every decision, which is why we use Lucasfilm as a conglomerate party instead of a singular individual. But the umbrella of responsibility still falls under Lucasfilm as a whole to dictate and orchestrate "approved canon" between films, books, comics, games, shows, and... apparently Fortnite tie-in material (that still is so weird).
Which, again, Rian Johnson sort of going "what if I do this light speed maneuver with Holdo?" and Lucasfilm just shrugging and going "sure, whatever"... which immediately raised a bunch of questions about why they don't do it more often, or do it with the ships on autopilot, or with droids, or with any vessel capable of lightspeed capability. RoS has a throwaway line of "that was a one-in-a-million shot!" to try and shut up the critics... but also doesn't explain WHY that was the case and opened up a new line of questioning.
That's why it's weird that Lucasfilm is SO controlling over games, but the entire ST felt so "on the fly" and without direction. Again, not the same individuals are approving these decisions, but the group as a whole seems oddly selective about adhering to strict canon and openly challenging or breaking with tradition based entirely on what side of the bed they woke up on that morning.
I mean, Star Wars at this point was already pretty stupid.
Remember when Starkiller, Vader, and Yoda went to 17th century Europe and fought Voldo and Ivy Valentine for possession of the Soul Edge?
creating another mode for red lightsabers and other cosmetics sounds like a huge waste of time.
Well, you're entitled to your opinion? I'm not saying people who want everything to be canon are "wrong." I'm just giving my personal take that JFO feels constrained by what Lucasfilm said yes or no to. Beyond the lightsaber stuff, Cal's force powers are pretty limited - it's just pull, push, or slow. I have to imagine that a team as imaginative as Respawn had a bunch of cool ideas for force abilities that Lucasfilm wouldn't allow.
And yes, you're right that there were complaints about Starkiller, and like I said I think it has a lot of issues (and, again, the story is complete trash). But there was a lot of appeal to the original pitch of "we're just going to let you go wild with force powers." People were absolutely thrilled by the initial gameplay demos of TFU showing all of the stuff you could do.
I think there's a middle ground between TFU's ridiculous over the top fanfiction and JFO's strict, unrelenting adherence to canon.
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Lucasfilm seems like they're in such a weird place. I felt Fallen Order treated the jedi more reverently than the recent films even.
It would literally be a switch in the menu to change a color.
It's the same stupid argument against pink Darth Vader skins in Battlefront. "It breaks canon!"
Because it's so important to remember the canon of that game... where Vader can force-choke Anakin Skywalker on Jakku.
Absolutely and I'm glad that the sequel was greenlit already.
Kinda bums me out to be honest. I'd love to have one game and one piece of media not revolving around Jedi. Battlefront II was alright but still dropped the ball in a few places.
Battlefront 2 is especially weird because a pink Vader is a big no-no yet having Count Dooku in his "Exquisite Pajamas" is fine because he wore them in one episode of Clone Wars, despite the idea of Dooku fighting on a battlefield with pajamas is obviously absurdIt would literally be a switch in the menu to change a color.
It's the same stupid argument against pink Darth Vader skins in Battlefront. "It breaks canon!"
Not to mention the fact that the multiplayer is absurdly non canon by nature so not allowing more customization just seems silly to me.
Maybe, then just call the game Star Wars Legends, and let the developers do whatever.
So did the OT though, twins even. When it came time for the final battle, one of them chose not to tap into the dark side and vanquish anyone, an option we didn't get to make in the force unleashed. JFO at least confronted the ramifications of tapping into the dark side, and as such was a better, more mature product than "kicking ass with the force", the public mantra of the dev director of Force Unleashed. And while it was fun to use dark-side force powers (on the Wii, anyway), we can still get this kind of gameplay connected to more grounded SW narrative concepts.
And you wonder why EA isn't exactly jumping to make a bunch of SW games.
Then TROS gave us this anyway.
Of course the same individuals don't make every decision, which is why we use Lucasfilm as a conglomerate party instead of a singular individual. But the umbrella of responsibility still falls under Lucasfilm as a whole to dictate and orchestrate "approved canon" between films, books, comics, games, shows, and... apparently Fortnite tie-in material (that still is so weird).
Which, again, Rian Johnson sort of going "what if I do this light speed maneuver with Holdo?" and Lucasfilm just shrugging and going "sure, whatever"... which immediately raised a bunch of questions about why they don't do it more often, or do it with the ships on autopilot, or with droids, or with any vessel capable of lightspeed capability. RoS has a throwaway line of "that was a one-in-a-million shot!" to try and shut up the critics... but also doesn't explain WHY that was the case and opened up a new line of questioning.
That's why it's weird that Lucasfilm is SO controlling over games, but the entire ST felt so "on the fly" and without direction. Again, not the same individuals are approving these decisions, but the group as a whole seems oddly selective about adhering to strict canon and openly challenging or breaking with tradition based entirely on what side of the bed they woke up on that morning.
I mean, Star Wars at this point was already pretty stupid.
Remember when Starkiller, Vader, and Yoda went to 17th century Europe and fought Voldo and Ivy Valentine for possession of the Soul Edge?
It's not weird at all because, again, this is the norm. What franchise are you gonna have a punch of people whose job is to keep track of continuity minutia tell a Hollywood Director that their spaceship thing won't happen? Working backwards from the movies is how any other franchise would work.
Also, they did come up with an explanation, it was just one that fans didn't like because they'd already made up their minds that it didn't work, would never work, and It Was Bad. Theres this huge double standard at play here, especially given the number of Voodoo Shark bullshit and dodgy space science is in this franchise that people accepted when the franchise wasn't owned Disney. Treating parsecs like a unit of time and not distance was either a laughable example of Uncle George not getting it, or something that EU writers had to twist themselves into a pretzel to make work, and people bought it or moved on - but a ship hitting another while moving super fast is universe breaking???
And in the end you're also over-estimating the effect road maps have on a franchise. Marvel movies strongly influence one another, but stuff isn't nearly as planned out as people believe. It's more throwing stuff out for the future and seeing what sticks. Thanos's motivation was clearly wholly different from what Whedon and Gunn both alluded to. Tony dying was planned as Endgame was being made. In general, "having a plan" is just general ideas, and not having a clear outline. Stuff like that is usually the property of adapted works that already form a series, or films that are more of a singular vision - and even then, there's clearly tons of writing by the seat of one's pants. Just ask Luke's "sister".
So... basically, "why can't you guys make 1313 like we asked that other lady to do." Fuck you back.
It would be really interesting to know what Lucasfilm's problem with Trevorrow's script was, because it's possible that being too picky ironically led to a situation where they had to go with whatever JJ and Terrio could come up with, whether it made sense or not, or face a long delay (possibly putting a nail in the coffin of KK's time at Lucasfilm, if one wasn't there already). Of course, it would also be interested to know the truth behind the rumours that studio interference made TRoS worse.
Exactly. We have been seeing the amount of control they have since Battlefront II, and including Ragtag.
I've been theorizing this the entire time: under the current conditions, there's no possibility of a KOTOR or spiritual successor to it, unless it's part of Legends. If they're this strict about a linear game, imagine one with character choices?
But maybe they'll loosen up one day. Not counting on it, but hoping.
Lol. Glad I'm not the only one who caught that. Still hurts.
Actually, that's precisely what Marvel does. Doctor Strange 2 just lost its director because they have a bigger story to tell and his creative vision for the film wasn't in-step with where Marvel wants to go, so they amicably split and will replace him with someone who's going to keep on the approved path. It also happened with the Ant-Man movies. Sometimes it's for the better, sometimes not, but the end-goal of keeping everyone on the same page is why that structure is there, and I really didn't see that in the Star Wars movies.
And that explanation was... it was a "one-in-a-million maneuver"? That's not an explanation; that's an excuse. An explanation explains how. Han saying to Luke "that shot was one-in-a-million!" in the original film isn't an explanation for Luke's great shot, just a confirmation that it was skillfully pulled off.
If it's a move that can hobble an entire fleet of powerful enemy ships and dramatically shift the tide of a war, YES, it is on a different level than "is a parsec a distance or measure of time?", because one is a bit of confused techno jargon and the other is an action that has massive implications for the entire fate of a galactic war.
If you open up the Pandora's box of powers or abilities in the series that can alter the very structure of the galaxy as they know it, you have to deal with the implications. That's basic storytelling.
The minutia of a plan can change, but Endgame was always going to tackle Thanos, the Infinity Gauntlet and Infinity Stones, and ALL the major beats they had planned for the story were in place a decade before the story came to its conclusion. It was a flexible plan (bye "Inhumans", hello "Spider-man") and there was course-adjustment along the way (boo "Dark World", yay "Ragnarok"), but the outline was pretty solid. There was a plan - a finish line. The way to get TO the finish line shifted and changed as the need arose (which is good business and pre-planning at work), but at no point was Endgame going to suddenly subvert expectations and reveal that Thanos was merely the puppet of the original MCU villain... Obadiah Stane (what a twist)! And reveal at the 11th hour that Tony Stark's REAL dad was actually... the real Mandarin! And the Infinity Stones actually weren't important and were actually tasty gummy vitamins and the REAL power was the friendships we made along the way!... It planted its seeds carefully over 23 movies and paid it off in the big conclusion.
It's ridiculous to compare the MCU and its 23 movies to Star War's sequel trilogy and its 3 widely inconsistent, contradictory films telling competing messages and stories.
And Leia being Luke's sister is stupid. It was stupid then and it's stupid now and it's one of the few things even original fans agree has aged like spoiled milk.
Under current Lucasfilm guidance, no KOTOR successor is happening. I'm amazed they haven't shut down Old Republic for its massive non-canon implications. I guess non-canon isn't so important if it's still making them money. Lol.
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Lol. Glad I'm not the only one who caught that. Still hurts.
Actually, that's precisely what Marvel does. Doctor Strange 2 just lost its director because they have a bigger story to tell and his creative vision for the film wasn't in-step with where Marvel wants to go, so they amicably split and will replace him with someone who's going to keep on the approved path. It also happened with the Ant-Man movies. Sometimes it's for the better, sometimes not, but the end-goal of keeping everyone on the same page is why that structure is there, and I really didn't see that in the Star Wars movies.
And that explanation was... it was a "one-in-a-million maneuver"? That's not an explanation; that's an excuse. An explanation explains how. Han saying to Luke "that shot was one-in-a-million!" in the original film isn't an explanation for Luke's great shot, just a confirmation that it was skillfully pulled off.
If it's a move that can hobble an entire fleet of powerful enemy ships and dramatically shift the tide of a war, YES, it is on a different level than "is a pasec a distance or measure of time?", because one is a bit of confused techno jargon and the other is an action that has massive implications for the entire fate of a galactic war.
If you open up the Pandora's box of powers or abilities in the series that can alter the very structure of the galaxy as they know it, you have to deal with the implications. That's basic storytelling.
The minutia of a plan can change, but Endgame was always going to tackle Thanos, the Infinity Gauntlet and Infinity Stones, and ALL the major beats they had planned for the story were in place a decade before the story came to its conclusion. It was a flexible plan (bye "Inhumans", hello "Spider-man") and there was course-adjustment along the way (boo "Dark World", yay "Ragnarok"), but the outline was pretty solid. There was a plan - a finish line. The way to get TO the finish line shifted and changed as the need arose (which is good business and pre-planning at work), but at no point was Endgame going to suddenly subvert expectations and reveal that Thanos was merely the puppet of the original MCU villain... Obadiah Stane (what a twist)! And reveal at the 11th hour that Tony Stark's REAL dad was actually... the real Mandarin! And the Infinity Stones actually weren't important and were actually taste gummy vitamins and the REAL power was the friendships we made along the way!... It planted its seeds carefully over 23 movies and paid it off in the big conclusion.
It's ridiculous to compare the MCU and its 23 movies to Star War's sequel trilogy and its 3 widely inconsistent, contradictory films telling competing messages and stories.
And Leia being Luke's sister is stupid. It was stupid then and it's stupid now and it's one of the few things even original fans agree has aged like spoiled milk.
Luke and Leia being siblings is just one symptom of all that; the OT was intended to be six movies instead of three, but Lucas got so tired of them that he decided to end it at 3.
But I digress. What you described is still a very general plan. Hell, the Mandarin is a textbook example - IM3 is very clear about what they intended the Mandarin to be, which conflicts somewhat with what the Ten Rings were implied to be, and DEFINITELY is getting a huge course correction in the form of that one Marvel One Shot and the upcoming Shang-chi.
They don't pay very well either.
But on the plus side, you get to work on Star Wars. And their campus is really cool.
Star Wars is a property to sell toys. Being this uptight about plastic dolls is silly. Star Wars is a silly movie property, treating it like it's sacred is dumb.
And you could argue that's largely because the Mandarin - in isolation - isn't actually important. He's Malekith-level's of important to the overall storyline. He's not Loki. He's not Thanos. He was as vital to the overall plot as Batroc the Leaper (remember him in Winter Soldier?). The main crux of the villain's role wasn't to be a prime mover and shaker but a backdrop for the hero - Tony - to grow and evolve from. Tony's arc was important, not fake-Mandarin's actions.
Which is the big difference. Marvel movies of course have small plans change. Roles are recast, schedules shift, CEOs who stood in the way of female and minority-led movies are booted to the curb, etc. But most of the big picture WAS focused and planned and everything else was sidepaths to get there. It's like when you go on a nature walk and take a detour. Sometimes you go off the path, backtrack, or waste time, but eventually you get back on the main path and get to the end of the natural trail. The destination was always there, even if you changed the route to get there from time to time.
Which is, again, the big difference. Marvel knew what story beats were immutable and locked in place and which ones ultimately weren't that important. I can tell you right now that Taskmasker isn't going to be a universe-affecting, 23-film-pay-off villain in Black Widow. He's not that type of character. But if you start seeing hints of a man in metal scheming from his throne in the overlooked nation of Latvaria, you can bet that character will have more care and attention paid to him than a one-off movie mook.
It's still too much to be believable even for Star Wars.
No they don't. The new trilogy proves they don't.
Although, even if it's an iron fist it doesn't mean they're smart about what the hell they restrain it with. They also revived a fan-favorite character like... twice in both Han Solo and ROS just because they could, that isn't "ruling with an iron fist to me". It's like the floodgates are open.
I can imagine Respawn didnt really want to tell yet another Empire vs Rebels era story and were forced to. They really are beating a dead horse at this point using the same story beats over and over, but I can imagine that the SW story team arent going to trust a game to lead the charge with the first story in a original setting since the EU got binned. Too bad, since KoTOR is the best thing to come out of the SW universe since the original trilogy, and they have been doing a piss poor job with the lore in the movies for a while now.
The Mandarin was Iron Man's arch nemesis. Iron Man 1 and 2 were clearly building up to him in a way that Iron Man 3 decided to subvert. And the backlash against "the change" was clearly enough to make them change course and try to save face. That's a pretty clear indication he's more than just a minor player in their eyes.
If this were Star Wars fandom, it'd be made into a much bigger deal. And likewise, what you're alluding to with Doom should come with the caveat that their last, equally big villain, changed significantly once they Russos got ahold of him.
Uh huh.
We're just not gonna agree here. I frankly just don't see how such a situational ability is in anyway game breaking.
Yeah, no, spare me this. I like trying to keep the story consistent. Doesn't always work but I like when the universe pieces together naturally.
It makes it more fun when stuff like Ahsoka shows up in Rebels or what happened in the last episode of The Mandalorian. If everything could just do whatever they wanted without care things like that wouldn't feel as special.
Go ask/blame KK for the ST movies problem.
The Story Group will not let Palpatine back if they have full control on the story movies.
Yeah, the only reason SWTOR still happens is because it's a Legends story.
OT, ST, and PT meaning? Acronyms are truly an evil thing sometimes
Not in the movies, he's not. In the MCU, Tony never meets the real Mandarin.
I'm a bit privy to some of the behind-the-scenes, but Mandarin was always going to be a tricky villain to successfully employ against Tony, largely due to the political climate. "The Mandarin" is a very dated villain - up to and including his NAME. He's a stone's throw away from being in the ranks of Wonder Woman's foe Egg-fu and I've seen him in many lists as one of the "most racist characters in comics" - "Mandarin is essentially every Asian stereotype wrapped up into a single character", he was once described.
So, no, Marvel didn't really have a plan for him. They had REFERENCES to him (the 10 Rings mentioned here and there), but when Iron Man 3 came about they played with the idea that he was exactly as people said - an overt stereotype so blunt it had to be intentionally offensive and fake. The backlash, of course, made them course-correct (again, in half-measures with a "One-Shot" only seen as a special feature on the Blu-Ray), but there's a very good reason they've decided to wait and bringing him in as a big villain for the ASIAN hero Shang-Chi to square off against in a film that is predominantly Asian cast.
But Iron Man 1 and 2 weren't "building up" a non-existent character. They had no more than winks and nods to his origin and history with Iron Man, but he was never geared for a larger role in the MCU. To use the Nature Path example, Mandarin was always a side-path to a deadend.
Original Trilogy, Prequel Trilogy, Sequel Trilogy.
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Well I am obviously not in charge so you have nothing to worry about, except maybe that the movie will continue to rehash the same story over and over from the OT.
I'm glad you like it but it's made for kids, to sell toys.
LucasFilm/Arts absolutely does when it comes to external licensees, which is what this thread is about.
Am I missing something?
Respawn: We want to do Jedi
LF: How about blasters and bounty hunters
Respawn: That's not the team we've built
Respawn: We want to do Jedi
LF: How about blasters and bounty hunters
Respawn: That's not the team we've built
Uh huh.
Well just so happens a lot of good stuff comes from that "franchise to sell toys."
I don't care about the story or quality of TFU, I care that it was allowed to exist. That there was diversity and freedom allowed for developers. JFO is painfully uninspired.
I think they don't want story beats to become canon and then force them to work that into their films? I mean Starkiller from Force Unleashed completely blows away anything in the films power wise and that's a sticky situation for Rey.
If you're talking about the cameo at the end of Solo that character was already established to still be alive at that point. They didn't revive anyone there.
This just tells me that Kaytleen Kennedy just needs to be fired already! Why is Disney taking so long?
Does it? The Rise of Skywalker had a bunch of force related bullshit that felt like it would have been right at home in TFU.
Fun fact, Starkiller was almost made canon again in Rebels but the writers said he "didn't quite fit"with there story.
That explains why Sam Witwer voices like everybody in those shows.
You really wanna go here? You really wanna throw your hat in with the people who say this kinda shit?
The closest thing to TFU is..
Rey hold's back a single relatively small ship from launching and even then you could tell she was struggling.
Compare that to Starkiller pulling a fucking Stardestroyer down.
Between the canon obsession and Disney's family friendly filter, if KOTOR3 was unlikely 10 years ago then its impossible today. I was just wondering the other day what Star Wars would be like if George went with WB or Fox.
I think that's exactly why. Who cares about what Bounty Hunters are doing? Really hard to step on any continuity when it's an insignificant player like a bounty hunter. Now a Jedi is going to require some stronger ties to the other media.
Matter teleportation across miles, body projection across light years, massive lighting storms. It's clown town, even accounting for Palpatine.
If you wanna do rule of cool is the only rule, fine. But at least make it good like the Clone Wars miniseries.
None of that strikes me as bad as TFU except the massive Sith Lightning and frankly I give that a pass by being THE big bad. especially given the limited uses of first two.