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Dremorak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,774
New Zealand
TLDR:
theyre-real-theyre-spectacular.gif


I've been thinking about making this thread for a little while, but my experiences in Star Citizen over the last couple of weeks have pushed me over the edge, so here I am.

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Disclaimer: I paid 30USD in the first 24 hours of the campaign all those years ago, so I am a long time supporter of the game HOWEVER, I have played very little of what they have put out until 3.15.1 came out a couple of months ago, as what was there was very barebones and barely held together. I was quite happy to just sit and wait 20 years for this game to eventually become a thing.
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Also disclaimer: Some of their practices could definitely be improved. I dont like that there are some ships you can buy with real money that you can't buy ingame (yet). I feel like if its flyable ingame then it should be purchasable ingame. In terms of their bananas ship prices, it really doesn't matter to me. If people are willing to pay it, why not? And also you can purchase them all (eventually) ingame. Almost all are available right now ingame, so buying with cash is really just a way of supporting the devs.
That having been said, yes its totally valid to feel like they shouldn't be doing any of that at this point in development.
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Also Also disclaimer: YES. It is in Alpha. YES. It does have some annoying bugs. However, I find the fun I've had more than outweighs the annoyances from bugs
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I had been watching a lot of videos in the run up to 3.15 and the full progress wipe that was coming along with it. People seemed to be having a really good time with it and I wanted IN, and with everyone getting their ingame progress reset and a bevy of new systems and changes, it seemed like the perfect time to jump in for reals this time. Before I get into StoryTime, let me tell you a little bit about the game:

For a game that is in alpha, and one that most people seem to think doesn't even exist yet, it is DENSE. There are a lot of systems at play, and they are pretty much all very well thought out. Allow me to just break down a portion of the complexities that are live in game right now:
- Each ship is created with the idea that all of its components must have a place, and all must be physically accessible so that they can be replaced and repaired
- Ships aren't just moved through space by translating forwards like in most games, here the thrusters of the ship physically push the ship through space, which means the weight of the ship actually matters, and the aerodynamics of the ship shape matters when in atmosphere. It also means if those thrusters are blown off, flying becomes a lot harder as you can no longer turn or propel yourself properly BUT you can continue to fly if you compensate for it.
- Ships are fully destructable, so wings and panels can get blown off etc, and you can keep flying although obviously it becomes much harder due to the flight mechanics
- Ships have multiple fully interactive screens where you can change power distribution, overclock various components, check your IR emissions levels, and access ship comms
- You can use ship comms to hail other ships or players walking around on planets, wherever they are, and you get a video feed of their face pop up and you can talk to them (if they accept the call) you can also do this at any time from your PDA-like MobiGlass device on your arm. To make that even cooler, the game features FOIP (Face Over IP) which means anyone with a webcam can have full face tracking, and that really shows when you call other players and get a fully tracked face having a conversation with you. Its bananas. Also you can use this to hail a station or planetary landing area and ask for a landing pad to be assigned as well.
- If you can fit a land vehicle or another ship into your ship then you can travel around with extra transport, and it even saves the vehicle in there for next time you spawn your ship.
- there is a huge variety of ships to choose from, from single seater fighters and transport ships, to huge multi-person ships with living quarters, engineering, meeting rooms, bars, all that good stuff!
- Ships are very customizable in terms of loadout, you can change out weapons, missile types, missile racks, shield generators, cooling units, quantum drives, etc etc

These are all just ship specific things that came to mind, but that doesn't even include anything like: The full FPS mechanics including: going prone, combat rolls, peeking around corners, zeroing weapon sights on the fly, customizing your weapon on the fly by looking at it (which looks dope as hell by the way), HEAPS of weapons, and the shooting feel is actually top notch IMO, Also not even talking about the medical gameplay they just added or inventory management which while in progress, looks cool and should be great once the kinks are worked out. ALSO not even getting into the 5 major planets with fully explorable on foot very detailed and immersive areas, and obviously you can also land anywhere on the planet outside of that for mining or exploration or FPS bunker missions, and each planet also had multiple moons to explore as well. OR the localised voice chat which means you can just walk past people and hear them talking to each other, and respond as well (which adds to some of the later shenanigans)

ANYWAY, thats just to give you an idea of the game and it world as it stands right now.

So recently they started a live event called Jumptown 2.0, based on (I believe) a glitch where a drug factory called Jumptown started pumping out drugs for free due, and players found out and it turned into a bloodbath, with people trying to get their share of the gold rush. And so in Jumptown 2.0. every so often, for 6 hours an event goes live, everyone gets a mission saying theres a drug production facility where something is going down, and if you are a good guy (no criminal rating) then you need to get in there and secure as many boxes of drugs as possible and deliver to the authorities. If you are a bad guy (you have some level of criminal rating) then you must secure the drugs and deliver them to a shady station called GRIM HEX (A hive of scum and villany)

This event has given me some of the most dynamic, amazing gameplay I've had in any game ever. This is what happened on my first 3 attempts to hit it, and each time was super different. Here's what went down:

1st attempt: I messaged the global chat and asked whats the status of Jumptown. I got several replies saying it was locked down but they were allowing peaceful civilians to come and partake. So essentially a group of about 5 people had come in and secured the facility with air and ground support, they even had a sniper on the hill incase visitors got out of hand, but they were letting peaceful players to come in and get some drugs while it was safe. After landing I found a guy at the door, fully kitted out and with amazing looking armor on, and I stopped to just admire his loadout before I heard "MOVE ALONG" and just about shat myself. (I had been doing a lot of solo mining on one of Crusader's moons and so was used to silence lol) I managed to go in about 5 times and grab a box, and so felt I should leave before shit hits the fan. I flew to a nearby station and landed, went in and found the admin services and sold my 5 boxes for about 80,000. Which for context is about 4 missions worth of cash! I was very happy with how much I made, and TBH it didn't feel unbalanced to me as at any point someone could come along and start WW3 and I'd get caught in the middle and lose everything, so it was SUPER tense. My heart was beating out of my chest every time I went there.

2nd attempt: I asked the chat and they replied that there are just a few players grabbing boxes and loading their ships. I flew over and landed and sure enough, there was no one here but these 3 friendly players! We would hold the airlock door for each other as we came in, we waited in line for each other to have a turn, and we even let one of the other guys stack boxes outside without taking any. This lasted for about 15 mins. I now had 10 boxes in my ship and was starting to get nervous. It had been peaceful for a while. The next few boxes I kept my eye on the sky, trying to see if I could see a ship incoming so I could run. I had my 15th box, walking back to my ship when I looked up and saw a shape coming in through the atmosphere. It could very well have just been another friendly player, but I wasn't taking any chances, I threw my box into my ship, shut the back door, ran through the cargo room to the bridge, jumped into the pilots seat, fired up engines and got the hell out of there. As I was flying away there was a MASSIVE explosion right behind me! It turns out it was an A2 bomber carrying a MOAB (Mother of all Bombs) which is basically a nuke and will decimate absolutely everything. Also he had some friends as well, as I see laser shots flinging past me, I quickly got out of atmosphere and started spooling my drive.....waiting.....waiting....waiting....GO! I made it out of there just in time! My shields were knocked out and my ship didn't have great armor stats so if they hit me with a big enough missile it would have been curtains for me. I made it to the station and sold it off, this time making about 240,000 which is the most I have ever made in a single transaction lol.

3rd attempt: This time when I asked I heard back "Yep we're all friendly down here" And when I arrived I found a group of friendly civilians that had banded together and decided to form a chain: grabbing boxes from the receptacle, moving them to the lobby, moving them outside and then loading up players ships for them! Most players would just come, get their ship loaded and fly away. The leader of the operation was asking for tips if you felt like it, otherwise their services were free! Once my ship had one load, I flew off and sold it all (another 240,000) and so I sent the leader a 50,000 tip as I figured most people wouldn't, and he was being super nice and managing all these ships coming in and getting loaded up sounded like a logistical nightmare :P But then I decided I would go back and help out. And so I spent the next hour and a half loading boxes into people's ships! It was very rewarding just helping people even just in a video game lol. I only got one 20,000 tip, but I didn't really care. I had already made heaps and being part of a team helping a bunch of random players felt really good.

So yeah, Star Citizen is real, I love it. This is just a small sampling of the fun I've had over the last couple of months. I've only just started to play a bit with friends and family, and thats a whole extra level of fun. I might add another story in this thread if I have the energy for this amount of writing lol. I had an encounter with several bounty hunters and an injured player, and it was like a playable action movie lol

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Final Disclaimer: I'm not shilling for SC, I don't really care if you buy a bunch of ships. Just check out some gameplay videos and see for yourself!
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Anno

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,992
Columbus, Ohio
I'm a big supporter of games being announced early and development being done in public and super early access/collaborative development with the community, so I try to keep an open mind about SC, even if I'm not going to contribute more than my $50ish Kickstarter contribution. They make it hard sometimes, and it's hard to tell if this is just unique to this project or if this is just always what a big project developed in this manner would look like
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,605
Not if you paid me. Because that's where this is going. Whales paying for help. Someone's gotta mop that several thousand dollar spaceship.
 

Alucrid

Chicken Photographer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,480
i scrolled through the second video and the "bounty hunting and ship boarding" part caught my eye after watching the expanse. but when they board the ship they have a gun they (almost) don't use because there's seemingly no one aboard the ship until they get to the cockpit and there's just some guy just sitting there not moving that they gun down and then that's mission complete. the video is a few months old but is that pretty standard of what's in the game right now?
 
OP
OP
Dremorak

Dremorak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,774
New Zealand
i scrolled through the second video and the "bounty hunting and ship boarding" part caught my eye after watching the expanse. but when they board the ship they have a gun they (almost) don't use because there's seemingly no one aboard the ship until they get to the cockpit and there's just some guy just sitting there not moving that they gun down and then that's mission complete. the video is a few months old but is that pretty standard of what's in the game right now?
I think right now AI ships in bounty missions only have one AI on them although TBH I haven't tried myself so not sure on that. I know there are missions where ships are being attacked with ground forces and so you need to get in the ship and gun down the enemies though.
If there's one thing I learned is you don't mention this game on Era, ever. Good luck OP
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Dest

Has seen more 10s than EA ever will
Coward
Jun 4, 2018
14,150
Work
Bold OP, but I respect it. I understand the hate that people give this game, but putting your hands on it is a whole different feeling than just reading about it. Wil it ever be finished? Who knows. Will it be rad as fuck and incredibly ambitious for what it is even as it stands? Yeah. For sure.
 

elyetis

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,569
The only comparison I can come up with is the early days of the DayZ mod.

Great situations emerge from players interaction in "hardcore" sandbox PvP(vE) experiences, even when those game/mod are buggy incomplete mess.
For me it feels more representative of the huge potential of that genre ( if I can call it a genre ), than it is of those games/mods own qualities.
 

Khezu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,950
Star Citizen is cool, because no matter what happens I'm going to be entertained.

Either its real and comes out and it's a sweet ass space sim.

Or it crashes and burns and the drama is palatable.
 

DrScruffleton

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,618
i guess I just dont understand what you do in this game, is there a story to it or are you just roleplaying a trader? The footage ive seen does look very pretty, no way in hell i could run it
 

RoboitoAM

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,121
With how long it's going you can play everything they have to offer ever free flight and let other suckers pay for it
 

Jag

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,682
I bought it early too, but I gave up installing alpha clients a few years back.

I just chalk it up to a rare gaming loss.
 
Oct 25, 2017
41,368
Miami, FL
Cool you're having fun. That's all that matters in the end. SC at the moment is a lot like the really early days of Sea of Thieves. Very rough experience, mostly made up for by the community making lemonade out of lemons. And unfortunately, stuck in those "early days" for what look like years to come, with nothing that persists beyond the next alpha update.

In this case, a great many lemons are made up for by having fun friends to experience it with and laugh at.

If you're looking for a similar experience with friends, there wasn't much you mentioned here that you can't do in Elite Dangerous with a wing. Invade planetary bases? Check. Steal cargo from unsuspecting players with not enough firepower to stop you as you become public enemy #1? Check. Stressfully run a blockade while trying to be invisible to radar with a bunch of high-value cargo that you spent the last 6 hours farming on your way to becoming a wealthy trader? Check. Fight massive alien ships with your friends in the gunner seat in your ship or in the own ships as part of your wing? Check. Take your wing into combat with or against other wings just for the thrill of combat or to protect other ships? Check. Join a wing that goes out saving ships that have run out of fuel? Check. Buy a ship carrier and jump out around Sagittarius A* with your friends to start a new life as a ________? Yep, why not. Elite has tens of thousands of inhabited worlds and billions of planets you can land on, explore, mine, discover, or simply enjoy the view on.

And all of these give you the same kinds of crazy stories to tell. And you get to keep everything you make, capture or kill. Because it's a complete game.

 

Dekuman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,042
Despite its eternal development and constant selling of in-game items, its probably still a better deal than people spending hundreds and thousands on dollars on useless Ultimate team loot boxes for annualized sports games and cosmetics in some looter shooters
 

Dyno

AVALANCHE
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
13,433
yes better to retreat into an echo chamber
The reason that poster put that is likely because of how it's literally a one way ocean of circlejerking any time someone tries to discuss anything about it here. You are aware of the irony that ERA is absolutely an echo chamber in this regard right? Because there's plenty other places on the web that can openly discuss negatives and positives within the game, which is entirely impossible here.
 
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sakkeke

Member
Oct 16, 2021
378
Finland
Star Citizen seems to definitively have some very cool moments and mechanics, the attention to detail is incredible, and the scale of the world really (too) ambitious. But it's still not even close to a finished product, which can be played from start to finish (I'm only interested in the single player experience) and considering how much time and money it has already swallowed, we can suspect if there's any intention to ever push out a final game.

I really wanted it to be a real space epic of dreams, but Chris Roberts was the name that made me suspicious from the beginning. SC seemed to be too good to be true, and as we have seen almost ten years later, it still more an idea of what could have been than something that we will finally get. I'm afraid that this monstrous mishandling of the game production just goes on and on, until it eventually crashes down when the money flow dries.
 
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Jolkien

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,765
Anchorage/Alaska
The reason that poster put that is likely because of how it's literally a one way ocean of circlejerking any time someone tries to discuss anything about it here. You are aware of the irony that ERA is absolutely an echo chamber in this regard right? Because there's plenty other places on the that can openly discuss negatives and positives within the game, which is entirely impossible here.

 

Rackham

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,532
Glad to hear it op. Sounds like a lot of fun. I love when a game surprises you that much.
 
Oct 27, 2017
42,905
That was a pretty informative writeup! I honestly didn't know that the game had anything, but systems and simulations loosely connected, but it seems like it also has some gameplay loops partially done?
 

Praxis

Sausage Tycoon
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,282
UK
It seems right up my alley, but getting into it would require me to buy a new hotas and probably upgrade my PC.
 

Speely

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
8,006
Sounds really fun, actually. I look forward to the finished product (if I can run it then lol) but it's always interesting to follow the development of big projects like this.
 

digitalrelic

Weight Loss Champion 2018: Biggest Change
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,124
I remember when this game used to look so unfathomably "next-gen".

Looking at these videos, it looks like the rest of the industry has caught up. It's visuals don't really stand out any more.
 

Bufbaf

Don't F5!
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,730
Hamburg, Germany
Bought a ship yesterday, and even before starting playing, the community gifted me a pink cat armor. I have no complaints.

Will report more once I actually played it tomorrow :)

A good video to get a better view of what this game actually is:





And a super impressive Digtal Foundry playlist (even if the version Alex was testing is an older one, some really cool shit)

I remember when this game used to look so unfathomably "next-gen".

Looking at these videos, it looks like the rest of the industry has caught up. It's visuals don't really stand out any more.
Yeah no lol. It still does things in a scale literally no other game does, check the DF videos.
 
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Kinthey

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
22,488
I remember when this game used to look so unfathomably "next-gen".

Looking at these videos, it looks like the rest of the industry has caught up. It's visuals don't really stand out any more.
The level of visuals has become more standard but the scope and amount of simulation that is happening is still beyond other games
 

oracledragon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,289
I'd echo similar experienced to you OP. I bought thr game starter pack for $45 usd a few weeks ago. Yes, it's "Alpha" (after 8 years...), and there are definitely bugs and glitches. *most* are not game breaking. It is a lot of fun with a group of friends. The ships modeled in the game are, in general, exquisite. Working knobs and levers, computer screens, airlock and cargo lifts, elevators, etc. That's honestly what got me to buy the game (first time I checked out the game was during their 2 week free period this november).

I think the key with this game, is to buy into the *game* and not the *dream*. The dream is just too big, I can't imagine it ever becoming reality. Star Citizen is the Battlecruiser 3000 ad of its time.

The game, in its current state, needs polish but is otherwise having substance. I've spent 60+ hours (with more to go) playing it, and I feel satisfied with the game as is for the price I paid.

Nothing forces anyone to spend crazy amounts of real life dollars on ships. I resolved myself that I would only buy using in game money. The ships in the game are real, and they are very fun to fly and operate. They are not only selling pngs of ships.
 

Nessus

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,940
I backed the Kickstarter and I still want it to come out and be good, and I think it's possible it might, but I will never consider an alpha a "game".

I've never been a fan of Early Access stuff either (which I realize I might be in the minority). I want to play a finished game, not a buggy tech demo of various unfinished systems, or an alpha, or even a beta.

I guess I'm glad that some people are getting enjoyment out of playing an alpha, but I really dislike how some people talk about it like it's a game. It's not. It's nowhere near complete. It's an unfinished piece of software that seems like it could be really cool if everything comes together and they manage to finish it and iron out all the bugs and jank. After all these years the fact that characters still don't walk around smoothly, one of the most basic parts of the game, to me, shows how far it still has to go.
 

Wanderish

Member
Jan 5, 2019
780
The level of visuals has become more standard but the scope and amount of simulation that is happening is still beyond other games
That is the problem. Just as the graphics have ceased to impress, the simulation will cease to impress. It was a game ahead of its time when it was first developed, but over time it will lose what makes it different, and I fear that will happen before they can finish it.
 

Keldroc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,029
Look, enjoy what you enjoy, OP, but as an original backer from the Kickstarter and a further backer after the fact for several LTI ships, the state of the game now almost a DECADE later is fucking laughable and completely unacceptable. I put in money for the spiritual successor to Wing Commander from the original creator, not the poster child for feature creep sinking into Vaporware Swamp. Calling what's there right now an "alpha" is really, really generous.

And I guess the less said about Squadron 42, the actual Wing Commander part of the project, the better. Several of the actors in that will be dead by the time that even sees beta.
 

Bufbaf

Don't F5!
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,730
Hamburg, Germany
"The graphics have ceased to impress"? Speak for yourself, please. The amount of detail from close-ups of literally anything, from the tiniest screw in a random outpost to the biggest starships in giant nebulas in a fully physical 3D space without any loading screens whatsoever is absolutely staggering to me.
 

jman2050

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
5,844
The reason that poster put that is likely because of how it's literally a one way ocean of circlejerking any time someone tries to discuss anything about it here. You are aware of the irony that ERA is absolutely an echo chamber in this regard right? Because there's plenty other places on the web that can openly discuss negatives and positives within the game, which is entirely impossible here.

Because on an objective level the negatives far outweigh the positives it makes sense that the negatives get more talked about, especially on an enthusiast forum when a project like Star Citizen has to fight for attention and clout with the myriads of other video games and video game-adjacent media out there. I'm certainly not opposed to messing around with friends in a multiplayer tech demo (or whatever particular similar designation you want to use. Prototype, proof-of-concept, just certainly not an 'alpha', not by any reasonable commercial development cycle I've ever been aware of) and having fun, I've been there and done that. I usually never had to spend money on it forever, nor was there a 10-years-and-counting promotional and marketing behemoth breathing down my neck when I did so, promising that the culmination of all this haphazardly constructed ideas and concept would coalesce into a concrete experience was just around the corner and all they needed was my support and money to make it happen.

Also be assured that Era is certainly not alone when it comes to the high skepticism of this project. If anything this is one of the more accommodating spaces to talk about this game for its supporters compared to the stuff I've seen on other online communities.
 

Bardeh

Member
Jun 15, 2018
2,748
SC would get a lot less hate if it wasn't a horribly mismanaged project that's stringing along a whole bunch of people for years while bilking money from a select few whales to keep the whole thing going.

How long has squadron 42 been in development? How many times have deadlines been missed and promises broken?

The massive amounts of money this project is still bringing in isn't just a whole bunch of new players buying a game for $45 or whatever access costs. It's existing customers spending ridiculous amounts of money for in-game assets that often don't even exist yet when they're sold.

The Star Citizen business model relies on this neverending feature creep to sell ever more expensive space ships to fund a grotesquely bloated and inefficient development process.

And sure, these customers are (hopefully) adults buying this stuff of their own free will, and perhaps they feel that the stuff they're buying is worth every penny, but from the outside looking in it looks like an exploitative business model that, after a decade and hundreds of millions of dollars, has yet to produce anything close to a polished or finished product. And I doubt it ever will. And that suits Chris Roberts and CIG just fine as long as people keep paying up for the promise that one day it might.
 

Keldroc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,029
"The graphics have ceased to impress"? Speak for yourself, please. The amount of detail from close-ups of literally anything, from the tiniest screw in a random outpost to the biggest starships in giant nebulas in a fully physical 3D space without any loading screens whatsoever is absolutely staggering to me.

The attention to detail impresses but the graphical quality doesn't, certainly not in the way it did back when they first started hawking the project to people in 2012. And they're still literal years from anything resembling a full release. Star Citizen will look like everything else or maybe a bit outdated by the time it approaches a 1.0 version.
 

TheJollyCorner

AVALANCHE
The Fallen
Nov 7, 2017
9,507
In over 37 years of being in the muck of the 'interactive medium' that is video games, Star Citizen just continues to act as both baffling and impressive to me.
The people that continue to believe in it, the people that continue to donate/contribute, the people that shitpost… it's just… I don't know, man. Wacky.
 

Deleted member 2172

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,577
That is the problem. Just as the graphics have ceased to impress, the simulation will cease to impress. It was a game ahead of its time when it was first developed, but over time it will lose what makes it different, and I fear that will happen before they can finish it.
lol. Only someone that is absolutely clueless as to what is going on underneath the hood of this game would say something like this. 10 years ago there was nothing coming even remotely close to the levels of simulation SC was aiming for (and currently reaching), and there is still nothing close today. History dictates that will continue to be the case for the foreseeable future.



Seriously. Talk shit about this games monetization/fundraising all you want, but what the devs are achieving with the actual game right now is next level.
 

danm999

Member
Oct 29, 2017
17,255
Sydney
When is Squadron 42 coming out?

I said it in another thread, but when the linear vertical slice of your larger main game is still MIA I can't really accept the project is anything but a vapourware scam.
 

Zephy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,191
I think that a lot of people here struggle with the notion that these two truths can coexist :

1) People managing the project have seen that a certain percentage of the community are effectively an infinite source of money, and will continue to take their $ for as long as they'll be willing to part with them. Combine this with the fact that if no one can say no to Chris Roberts at some point, he will keep adding stuff and never complete his game (see the story of Freelancer's development), and you'll understand that SC is unlikely to ever be released as a complete game. It will continue development until the well of money dries up, and by then it will be an incomplete Frankenstein's monster of a game made of innumerable half baked (or overcooked) systems loosely patched together.

2) SC started out as a genuine game project, is still being worked on by many people that are undoubtedly passionate about what they do, it currently offers gameplay that has some value (albeit being incomplete), and has made multiple technological achievements that are not found in any other game so far.