Square Enix: We will strive to create gaming experiences only possible in the cloud

Alucardx23 · Jan 5, 2020

What developer will be able to do with the power of the cloud is the main factor that has me looking forward to cloud gaming.

"The arrival of streaming as a new distribution platform will not only further accelerate the transition from the traditional disk-based sales model to digital sales, but could also drive significant change in business models themselves via the adoption of subscription models, for example. We are especially hopeful about the major potential cloud streaming services possess to expand markets in growing regions such as India and South America, where there has not been significant adoption of traditional game consoles. As telecommunications infrastructure improves, cloud streaming will directly provide customers in such markets with playing environments that eliminate the need for traditional consoles or PCs. From a game development perspective as well, we will strive to create gaming experiences only possible in the cloud, meaning developing cloud-native or cloud-centric games. For cloud streaming to enjoy mass adoption, there will need to be innovation not only in terms of distribution, but also in terms of gaming experiences. We believe that new gaming experiences that would have been impossible on traditional game consoles will be a major driver of cloud gaming adoption. Our efforts to develop cloud-native or cloud-centric titles are already underway, and we will strive to create new gaming experiences. We naturally face a mountain of challenges, including technological hurdles that must be overcome and issues with telecommunications costs. However, we have no doubt that cloud gaming will represent a major trend over the next five years as we enter the age of 5G and that our strategies for flexibly responding to that trend will be key. We intend to stay on top of new developments and leverage cloud gaming to drive new growth."

A New Year's Letter from the President | SQUARE ENIX HOLDINGS

www.hd.square-enix.com

Chaos2Frozen · Jan 5, 2020

Power of the Cloud huh....

Alexious · Jan 5, 2020

People here often laugh at the potential of cloud gaming, even when top executives from triple-A companies make such statements.

SleepSmasher · Jan 5, 2020

Alexious said:
People here often laugh at the potential of cloud gaming, even when top executives from triple-A companies make such statements.

Yeah. It isn't about "if" really, but rather "when". And if it makes gaming more inclusive by stripping away the hardware cost, what's not to like? Consoles will still be around, options won't hurt anyone.

Zonnes · Jan 5, 2020

this is sad for me

ILikeFeet · Jan 5, 2020

Third(?) time's the charm. At least there are more and better players in the game to piggyback off of

DiipuSurotu · Jan 5, 2020

Hopefully this will prevent leaks and datamining

Quantza · Jan 5, 2020

Alexious said:
People here often laugh at the potential of cloud gaming, even when top executives from triple-A companies make such statements.

Alucardx23 said:
However, we have no doubt that cloud gaming will represent a major trend over the next five years as we enter the age of 5G and that our strategies for flexibly responding to that trend will be key. We intend to stay on top of new developments

Just using the quote to assist with my answer:

1. I take that as 3-5 years before 5G will become mainstream.
2. Large-scale 5G distribution is not ready.

This is why people don't want to hear about cloud / streaming-related gaming at the moment.
When they show off some demos with even a small cohort of 30-50 people, people may get interested.

raketenrolf · Jan 5, 2020

All the big 3rd parties will have their own streaming service one day. Not my thing but I am probably not even the target audience.

DiipuSurotu · Jan 5, 2020

Quantza said:
Just using the quote to assist with my answer:

1. I take that as 3-5 years before 5G will become mainstream.
2. Large-scale 5G distribution is not ready.

This is why people don't want to hear about cloud / streaming-related gaming at the moment.
When they show off some demos with even a small cohort of 30-50 people, people may get interested.

It will hit Japan first before other regions

King Kingo · Jan 5, 2020

raketenrolf said:
All the big 3rd parties will have their own streaming service one day. Not my thing but I am probably not even the target audience.

And just like streaming movies and television shows, most of these streaming services will inevitably be consolidated due to market saturation.

Iron Eddie · Jan 5, 2020

raketenrolf said:
All the big 3rd parties will have their own streaming service one day. Not my thing but I am probably not even the target audience.

This is what it looks like to me, Square is big enough to have their own like Ubisoft. They will probably create games that can only be streamed too in order to promote it which kind of sucks.

Quantza · Jan 5, 2020

DiipuSurotu said:
It will hit Japan first before other regions

Yes, but possibly also countries that mostly skipped physical cable infrastructure for their internet provision.
E.g. some African countries, in addition to India as mentioned.

skeezx · Jan 5, 2020

i'm down with a cloud future and all but what kind of "new experiences" can it bring, really

GhostTrick · Jan 5, 2020

Alexious said:
People here often laugh at the potential of cloud gaming, even when top executives from triple-A companies make such statements.

Doesn't mean top executives from triple A companies don't live in a bubble.
The problem with a lot of "cloud" supporters is that they often have a mindset from a 1st world country, with uncapped 1gbps internet.

Because yeah, I see a lot of "cloud hype". Yet no solutions to the biggest hurdles:
1. The technology (providing good image quality, hardware power and handle the data caps and internet coverage in the world)
2. The business model (the complete lack of any ownership, be it licence or data, and what it means for preservation and retro gaming).

Alucardx23 · Jan 5, 2020

Quantza said:
Just using the quote to assist with my answer:

1. I take that as 3-5 years before 5G will become mainstream.
2. Large-scale 5G distribution is not ready.

This is why people don't want to hear about cloud / streaming-related gaming at the moment.
When they show off some demos with even a small cohort of 30-50 people, people may get interested.

5G will be a major accelerator for sure, but right now with home internet there are millions of people that can take advantage of the games Square Enix is describing. Right now there are people that have access to 5G internet and that number will only grow over time. They should start to show demos that show what they are talking about, that would go a long way to convince people that have problems understanding how this could work.

the7egend · Jan 5, 2020

Just not feeling cloud gaming any time soon, I've got 1Gbps with sub 5ms to most data centers/isps in a 250 mile radius, roughly 8ms across country (states) and even with Stadia and GeForce Now I get input latency. Till that latency issue is solved it's just a no-go for me and that's with me having better internet than a majority of people in the world.

Damn Silly · Jan 5, 2020

A late move for FF7R to be exclusive to Stadia

Cloud in the cloud, baybee

Deleted member 1476 · Jan 5, 2020

All I can say is good luck. DQX is still impossible for me to play, so they have a fantastic record in my view.

cw_sasuke · Jan 5, 2020

Is that a threat ?

Mack · Jan 5, 2020

Crackdown 4 confirmed.

cowbanana · Jan 5, 2020

Sounds as exciting and potentially as popular as Destiny on Stadia.

Mr.Deadshot · Jan 5, 2020

Alexious said:
People here often laugh at the potential of cloud gaming, even when top executives from triple-A companies make such statements.

Many (most?) people still have shit or dodgy internet
5G isn't even there. 4G coverage (at least in Germany) is lacking
People were already told about the "power of the cloud" in 2013.
Remember Crackdown 3? Or Stadia? :)

Sure someday this might enhance gaming and open new possibilities. But not before we have comprehensive fast internet. And that won't be the case in the next 5 years.

asd202 · Jan 5, 2020

Not many may remember but SE was one of the first companies to explore Cloud gaming with an off shot company called Shinra which was run by former CEO Wada. It was closed in 2016.

Alucardx23 · Jan 5, 2020

GhostTrick said:
Doesn't mean top executives from triple A companies don't live in a bubble.
The problem with a lot of "cloud" supporters is that they often have a mindset from a 1st world country, with uncapped 1gbps internet.

Because yeah, I see a lot of "cloud hype". Yet no solutions to the biggest hurdles:
1. The technology (providing good image quality, hardware power and handle the data caps and internet coverage in the world)
2. The business model (the complete lack of any ownership, be it licence or data, and what it means for preservation and retro gaming).

Don't understand why you need to go to the extreme instead of using real numbers. Talking about an uncapped 1gbps internet as some type of requirement for cloud gaming doesn't reflect reality at all. Just look at the comments from most people that use Stadia and other cloud gaming services with only a 35Mbps+ connection. You will see how most will say the image quality is good enough. Data caps might be a problem in the US but not the rest of the world and even then, the data is available for everyone to see on how the average playtime for gamers in the US is only 6 hours per week and how 61.4% consume less 250GB per month, leaving more than enough room to cover the average 6 hours per week of gaming time on a 1TB datacap. The younger you are the less you care about owning thing and care more about having access to the things you want when you want them. Digital game sales growth numbers are clear, as well as music and video subscription services popularity.

PlanetSmasher · Jan 5, 2020

Cool, and I will strive to not play those games because Chicago internet is a shitpile. Thanks for saving me the money, Square. Thumbs up.

Kazaam · Jan 5, 2020

Alexious said:
People here often laugh at the potential of cloud gaming, even when top executives from triple-A companies make such statements.

I think that reaction is due to there being a lot of emphasis on "the power of the cloud" and streaming throughout this generation that proved to be either smoke and mirrors or just simply not that great/impressive. Those statements have also been made by top executives and I think it's fairly safe to say that until there will be some proper examples to finally showcase the promises of these statements people will continue to mock them as hollow PR words.

Also, as many have pointed out given the vast majority of gamers' access to great internet infrastructure and depending on the bandwidth requirements, these experiences might prove to be quite niche. At least for the foreseeable future

Alucardx23 · Jan 5, 2020

PlanetSmasher said:
Cool, and I will strive to not play those games because Chicago internet is a shitpile. Thanks for saving me the money, Square. Thumbs up.

"Chicago's average broadband download speed is 46.89 Mbps, according to the survey."

That average is higher than what Stadia requires for 4K/60fps gaming.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-chicago-internet-speed-0805-biz-20160804-story.html

GhostTrick · Jan 5, 2020

Alucardx23 said:
Don't understand why you need to go to the extreme instead of using real numbers. Talking about an uncapped 1gbps internet as some type of requirement for cloud gaming doesn't reflect reality at all. Just look at the comments from most people that use Stadia and other cloud gaming services with only a 35Mbps+ connection. You will see how most will say the image quality is good enough. Data caps might be a problem in the US but not the rest of the world and even then, the data is available for everyone to see on how the average playtime for gamers in the US is only 6 hours per week and how 61.4% consume less 250GB per month, leaving more than enough room to cover the average 6 hours per week of gaming time on a 1TB datacap. The younger you are the less you care about owning thing and care more about having access to the things you want when you want them. Digital game sales growth numbers are clear, as well as music and video subscription services popularity.

And you're aware that not every countries has access to 35Mbps+ ?
In fact, let's also talk about how playing Celeste at 1080p60fps, a game that is what, maybe a 1gb download, would bring that to hundred of GBs of download to stream it ?
I don't go to extremes, I'm just talking about the biggest issues that are yet to be solved. Some people doesn't care about ownership or have a good enough internet ?
Good for them. It doesn't solve the problem.

LewieP · Jan 5, 2020

Remember when they talked about this over six years ago but still didn't implement it.

I wonder what is taking so long...

asd202 · Jan 5, 2020

LewieP said:
Remember when they talked about this over six years ago but still didn't implement it.

I wonder what is taking so long...

Honestly this reads to me as appeling to investors and being ready if it will take off. SE has been on Cloud gaming train for more than any AAA dev and have done almost nothing with it.

Thrill_house · Jan 5, 2020

Alexious said:
People here often laugh at the potential of cloud gaming, even when top executives from triple-A companies make such statements.

Mainly because we have heard nothing but talk and haven't seen a whole lot of results from this. The folk hyping it up turned it into a joke. You can't keep stroking your dick and bragging about something then not show the results.

So far the power of the cloud seems to be a bullshit buzzword or an excuse to keep your game connected online 24/7 for drm or mxt fuckery. A good portion of the world doesn't have the infrastructure to take advantage of the things these people are envisioning/promising when it comes real game changes with the tech. All hot air at this point imo.

TheJollyCorner · Jan 5, 2020

Shhhhh. No tears. Only clowds now.

cakely · Jan 5, 2020

Aw yeah it's the Power of the Cloud.

Feels like it's 2013 again.

tokkun · Jan 5, 2020

cowbanana said:
Sounds as exciting and potentially as popular as Destiny on Stadia.

Your imagination of an experience only possible in the cloud is a port of a pre-existing game to a cloud service?

LewieP · Jan 5, 2020

asd202 said:
Honestly this reads to me as appeling to investors and being ready if it will take off. SE has been on Cloud gaming train for more than any AAA dev and have done almost nothing with it.

Indeed.

PlanetSmasher · Jan 5, 2020

Alucardx23 said:
"Chicago's average broadband download speed is 46.89 Mbps, according to the survey."

That average is higher than what Stadia requires for 4K/60fps gaming.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-chicago-internet-speed-0805-biz-20160804-story.html

Yes. The average. And yet the reality is that it still feels like absolute shit most of the time.

Hype-Lord · Jan 5, 2020

Final Fantasy XVII Online here we go

Alucardx23 · Jan 5, 2020

GhostTrick said:
And you're aware that not every countries has access to 35Mbps+ ?
In fact, let's also talk about how playing Celeste at 1080p60fps, a game that is what, maybe a 1gb download, would bring that to hundred of GBs of download to stream it ?
I don't go to extremes, I'm just talking about the biggest issues that are yet to be solved. Some people doesn't care about ownership or have a good enough internet ?
Good for them. It doesn't solve the problem.

I'm sorry, you mentioned "uncapped 1gbps internet" and I'm just making sure you understand how this is not a requirement at all when it comes to cloud gaming, try using numbers that actually reflects what is real if you want to make a good argument. I don't understand your "not every countries has access to 35Mbps+" comment, would it sound like a good argument to you if someone says consoles cannot be successful because not everyone can buy one? What should really matter to you is the amount of people that do have access to a service, in order to give an opinion if the market is big enough or not. Anyone can say that billions of people don't buy consoles and that would be a terrible argument to demonstrate if they can be successful or not. If you have unlimited internet, it doesn't matter how much data you download and I also mentioned how the average gamer only plays 6 hours per week. At 4K Stadia will consume around 20GB per hour, if you take the average 6 hour per week gaming time, that is equal to 120GB per week or 480GB per month. When you combine that with the fact that the average internet subscriber downloads less than 250GB per month out of their 1TB data cap, then it should be clear that there is more than enough room for millions of people to use cloud gaming services, without even changing their internet plan. When it comes to subscription services, it's not only "Some people" as you say, the majority of them are consuming video and music on subscription services and they are only growing every year, this should give you an idea on how important ownership is becoming the the majority.

https://broadbandnow.com/report/google-stadia-data-caps/

Dogui · Jan 5, 2020

Last time i heard of "experiences only possible on the cloud" was about more cars in a racing game, which would be obviously doable as a normal pc game. It's kinda sad that they will make a statement like this without giving real examples of what could be really only possible on Cloud.

You know, when people say it's easy to have an idea but hard to execute it. In this case even the idea looks hard for them.

The Unsent · Jan 5, 2020

Call the service 'Cloud Strive TM'

Soap · Jan 5, 2020

To me, I only read this from a CEO perspective, which basically means more GaaS and less ownership of the end product for the consumer. Until I see otherwise I am going to remain cynical.

Alucardx23 · Jan 5, 2020

PlanetSmasher said:
Yes. The average. And yet the reality is that it still feels like absolute shit most of the time.

I understand how that can be your case. It would be good if you share some information on your hardware setup, internet speed, ISP plans you have available and what ping you get to services like Geforce Now and Stadia.

Geforce Now

https://shield.nvidia.com/support/geforce-now/system-requirements/2

Stadia

https://projectstream.google.com/speedtest

Google servers

GCPing.com

Measure latency to Google Cloud regions

www.gcping.com

GhostTrick · Jan 5, 2020

Alucardx23 said:
I'm sorry, you mentioned "uncapped 1gbps internet" and I'm just making sure you understand how this is not a requirement at all when it comes to cloud gaming, try using numbers that actually reflect what is real if you want to make a good argument. I don't understand your "not every countries has access to 35Mbps+" comment, would it sound like a good argument to you if someone says consoles cannot be successful because not everyone can buy one? What should really matter to you is the amount of people that do have access to a service, in order to give an opinion if the market is big enough or not. Anyone can say that billions of people don't buy consoles and that would be a terrible argument to demonstrate if they can be successful or not. If you have unlimited internet, it doesn't matter how much data you download and I also mentioned how the average gamer only plays 6 hours per week. At 4K Stadia will consume around 20GB per hour, if you take the average 6 hour per week gaming time, that is equal to 120GB per week or 480GB per month. When you combine that with the fact that the average internet subscriber downloads less than 250GB per month out of their 1TB data cap, then it should be clear that there is more than enough room for millions of people to use cloud gaming services, without even changing their internet plan. When it comes to subscription services, it's not only "Some people" as you say, the majority of them are consuming video and music on subscription services and they are only growing every year, this should give you an idea on how important ownership is becoming the the majority.

https://broadbandnow.com/report/google-stadia-data-caps/

You know the thing about averages ?
You mix both the people over and under the average. There are people that plays way over those 6 hours a week. And that also depends on whenever they're playing a new release or not. As I said: Just playing 1 hour of Celeste at 4k/60 would mean 20GB of data. That's overkill.

Then again, all yours numbers don't solve the issues. They just tell me "but some people can !"

Sumio Mondo · Jan 5, 2020

Sorry but I don't trust Square-Enix to carry this off at all. They struggle to release games on normal hardware let alone cloud games.

formasymphonic · Jan 5, 2020

I think some cloud-based "login anywhere / any device" FFXIV-type of MMOs or some kinds of gacha games would be an obvious path forward for some of their titles.

Alucardx23 · Jan 5, 2020

GhostTrick said:
You know the thing about averages ?
You mix both the people over and under the average. There are people that plays way over those 6 hours a week. And that also depends on whenever they're playing a new release or not. As I said: Just playing 1 hour of Celeste at 4k/60 would mean 20GB of data. That's overkill.

Then again, all yours numbers don't solve the issues. They just tell me "but some people can !"

The average is just that, nothing less or more. Saying that there are people that play more or less than the average, should be more than obvious, we are talking about the average, right? All of that is included. Think about this for a moment, out of 327 millions Americans, the average play time is 6 hours per week and 61.4% consume less than 250GB per month. We are talking about a market of millions of people. Whether or not 20GB of data per hour is overkill will depend on each user scenario. If your datacap is 50GB per month, then of course cloud gaming is not an option to you, if you play more than one hour every month. This should be obvious and something that shouldn't even be mentioned. I'm specifically talking about the millions of people that fall within or close to the average of 6 hour per week of play time and less or equal to 250GB per month on a 1TB datacap. There is no issue or problems to solve for that group, the only thing that matters after that is the ping you get to the data center and how susceptible you are to latency.

GhostTrick said:
Then again, all yours numbers don't solve the issues. They just tell me "Millions of people can !"

Fixed this for you. Again, try to be accurate.

GhostTrick · Jan 5, 2020

Alucardx23 said:
The average is just that, nothing less or more. Saying that there are people that play more or less than the average, should be more than obvious, we are talking about the average right? All of that is included. Think about this for a moment, out of 327 millions Americans, the average play time is 6 hours per week and 61.4% consume less than 250GB per month. We are talking about a market of millions of people. Whether or not 20GB of data per hour is overkill will depend on each user scenario. If your datacap is 50GB per month, then of course cloud gaming is not an option to you, if you play more than one hour every month. This should be obvious and something that shouldn't even be mentioned. I'm specifically talking about the millions of people that fall within or close to the average of 6 hour per week of play time and less or equal to 250GB per month on a 1TB datacap. There is no issue or problems to solve for that group, the only thing that matters after that is the ping you get to the data center and how susceptible you are to latency.

Fixed this for you. Again, try to be accurate.

And millions of people cant.
That still doesn't solve the issue.
I'm telling you "People on the left cant/dont want because of the business model"
What you're telling me is "But people on the right can/don't care !"

Alucardx23 · Jan 5, 2020

GhostTrick said:
And millions of people cant.
That still doesn't solve the issue.
I'm telling you "People on the left cant/dont want because of the business model"
What you're telling me is "But people on the right can/don't care !"

That is not a problem at all when we still have consoles right? Again, please stop using the number of people that can't do something. It would be a terrible argument to say that billions of people can't or are not interested on buying console as some proof that they cannot be successful, don't you agree? After it is clear that millions are capable of accessing a cloud gaming service, then it all falls down on the features/business model the service offers, this is where Stadia is doing terrible, but it is more than clear that the technology works.

TwoPikachus · Jan 5, 2020

My issue is difficulty of preservation. If these cloud services go down or some licensing fuckery happens, the games are gone too. I am not even a little bit amused by that. Fuck cloud gaming.

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