Except it doesn't single out a race considering it's used to adress white people too.
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Spanish-speaking Era: Can ‘negrito’ be used affectionately?
- Thread starter Sage
- Start date
¿Si eres hispano blanco entonces eres racista necesariamente? No entiendo qué quieres decir.
It's clear you know very little about the Spanish language and Hispanic culture.
Oh my argument definitely lacks cultural background, that's undeniable. I'm sure most of the people using "negrito" as a nickname for friends, etc. don't actually mean it in a racial way. It's just that these small, sneaky racist remarks do add up and subtly paint a racial picture.
En Alemania, mi español no es tan bueno como mi alemán. ;-)
Thus I'm certainly not qualified to make any meaningful claims about the Spanish language per se.
It's still racist tho to refer to other people by just their skin color or ethnicity, etc., even if it's just cultural purpose.
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I mean, my mom calls my dad "negro" and he's pale as fuck. So no race or even skin color component there.
Seriously these threads where people who are not Latin American try to school us into what the words we use mean are weird as hell.
And this is not the equivalent of that, not even close.
Maybe read the sentence? I say "when applied to people of colour". That terms become common enough to be used more generally doesn't change that it means black, and was clearly a description of skin colour.
Im from latin america born and raised but sure lets not talk about it because in latin america we pretend actual black people dont exist. I know the kind of hispanic in this thread that think racism is a gringo issue but have never talked about the racism in their country with an actual black person.
As racist as sexist are the words "woman" or "man", I guess, yeah...
Good to know my brown Argentinians, Bolivians, Peruvians and Ecuatorians friends and classmates are racist as fuck. To each others no less.
Except it's used both by people of color and white people. On a daily basis. Why is it so hard to accept that words can change meaning.
Negro can very much be a racist inslt, and is used very often as an insult racist where I live. It's horrble. We had an entire discussion on another thread about the use of the expression "negros de mierda", which means "fuckings blacks", or "shitty blacks". You'll hear this expression a lot from racist people. And there's a lot of them here.
But using "negro" in an affectionate way is like the most common thing ever. I know what the word means, but whether you like it or not, people who say it don't think one second of the original meaning.
And it's not meant to "mock or exagerate something", that's just plain wrong. It just means "dude"
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Wtf are you on about, i been called negrito by my father, Cavani didnt use it as and insult, this shit is insane, but we are in resetera after all, where is cool to call people of an entire continent "latinx", thats not racist, not sir.
oh i forgot you have to call brown Argentinians like this because youre country doesnt have actual black people any more.
what i love about this is i dont care for the term latinx we are talking about racism in latin america for black people and im talking for them since im black and histpanic. The actual community that exist the black hispanic .
In Latin America (not so sure about Spain), or at least Mexico, this is very common and no, it isn't meant or taken as offensive 99% of the time. Context matters but for the example given it's clear there's no issue. And yes, you hear blanquito(a)/güerito(a) (whitey/blondey) just as often, and both are often used regardless of the person's actual appearance.
There's also flaco/flaca and gordo/gorda (skinny/fatty) which are very commonly used by parents to refer to their children or to refer to your partner.
And then there's viejo/vieja (old man/woman) which is a term of endearment children use for their parents or couples use for their partner. I think "old man" and "old lady" are used in the US, no? Maybe this example can help to understand the intent behind the other ones.
Now, there are some instances of this kind of language use that imo are more often wrong than acceptable, like chinito and indito (little Chinese/little Indian). Unfortunately most people in LatAm still use these as pejoratives to refer to all East Asian people and to Native Americans, even with the -ito diminutive there's clearly a sense of contempt or, at best, a lack of understanding and "othering" behind those terms. Then there's marica which is a gay slur but is used as "dude" in South America, and of course the whole "puto" thing in Mexico where it is very much still an intense homophobic word but is also used as an adjective like "puto clima" (fucking weather).
There's also flaco/flaca and gordo/gorda (skinny/fatty) which are very commonly used by parents to refer to their children or to refer to your partner.
And then there's viejo/vieja (old man/woman) which is a term of endearment children use for their parents or couples use for their partner. I think "old man" and "old lady" are used in the US, no? Maybe this example can help to understand the intent behind the other ones.
Now, there are some instances of this kind of language use that imo are more often wrong than acceptable, like chinito and indito (little Chinese/little Indian). Unfortunately most people in LatAm still use these as pejoratives to refer to all East Asian people and to Native Americans, even with the -ito diminutive there's clearly a sense of contempt or, at best, a lack of understanding and "othering" behind those terms. Then there's marica which is a gay slur but is used as "dude" in South America, and of course the whole "puto" thing in Mexico where it is very much still an intense homophobic word but is also used as an adjective like "puto clima" (fucking weather).
User Banned (1 month): Misrepresenting history; dismissing concerns of racism
Argentina never had black people but okay. It had - and has, although fewer - Native Americans, mainly mapuches, but those people are not black. Slavery was forbidden in the Spanish Empire.
You act like I didn't participate in the thread about the black genocide in Argentina by telling people how racist my country is.
And it might surprise you but the racism is just as bad for native people than it is for black people.
Its kind of weird to ask "spanish speaking" Era because words can mean very different things in different spanish speaking communities.
To me, in Spain, it sounds racist. Not hateful, but racially charged (a "can I touch your afro hair" kind of thing). I have no idea if it is perfectly normal in Uruguay.
To me, in Spain, it sounds racist. Not hateful, but racially charged (a "can I touch your afro hair" kind of thing). I have no idea if it is perfectly normal in Uruguay.
I don't know the ins and outs of how it is used in these countries but this will generate headlines and maybe a ban because of the Evra/Suarez incident. Suarez tried to claim it was an innocent word in his country but he definitely used it in a way he knew Evra would not be happy with while being able to claim he meant no harm. Cavani obviously didn't mean anything by it but from the previous incident the FA might act anyway and to set an example to all clubs you need to brief your players on things like this when you sign them.
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Maybe the words "racist" as I used above wasn't a good way to express what I meant. I can see how the meaning could become general enough over time that it's used in a "colour-blind" way. I also don't want to say, that it's a bad and necessarily offensive word. Just that its origin is racial, and that its origin is clearly about skin colour, and singling out darker skin in particular. There's no equivalent word to mark people with very pale skin, as mentioned in the thread.
Race affects language, and to acknowledge that certain terms have racial connotations shouldn't be a controversial idea. It's simple reality for any racial minority.
by the way, I don't get this weird indignation about "Westerners lecturing us". I'm having a discussion on a internet board and I'll gladly acknowledge that we in Europe are fucking terrible about matters of race and how we treat minorities. I'm not making some grand point about how Latin America or Spain is bad or whatever. Just talking about race and language, which is what the thread is about.
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LoL americans and western europeans trying to lecture the rest of the world as usual... You just can't avoid it right guys?
With all due respect..Fix your own problems about race first (mainly in America) and then lecture.
It's impossible to understand to you guys unless you spend a couple of years in a latin american country and master the spanish language idioms and all.
With all due respect..Fix your own problems about race first (mainly in America) and then lecture.
It's impossible to understand to you guys unless you spend a couple of years in a latin american country and master the spanish language idioms and all.
For the record if there are black Latin Americans in this thread saying they find it offensive then I think we should listen and consider maybe it is problematic, even if many of us grew up hearing it used endearingly.
But I also think people not from LatAm should dial back trying to tell us why our culture/language is backwards and teaching us their enlightened ways. Again.
But I also think people not from LatAm should dial back trying to tell us why our culture/language is backwards and teaching us their enlightened ways. Again.
As a Puerto Rican, I agree. Only family is calling me that. Or an old lady. I have seen it used in gatherings as a term of endearment, but it's in a personal setting. Never seen it on social media with my friends and family.
So what do you got to say to these 2 posters?
Another hispanic pretending no racism here in Latin America. Hey if any black poster sees this is what we go through when talking racism in any country in Latin America if you are black . You are talking to a monolith of i don't see color/race in every country
Rigghhhttt, my question is how actual black Hispanics feel about it.
As an American, I can make a couple of observations.
1 - It does sound like Spanish-speakers latch on to characteristics about everyone
2 - But then, it sounds like they only latch onto skin color if you're black
Otherwise, it's weird for me to parse. "Thank you fat person! Thank you blue-eyed person! Thank you black person!" I can't tell if there's some cultural thing I'm missing that makes it equal.
Like I said, there's plenty of word to designate people of european descent: i get called Polaco often (means polish) and Gringo (generally used for people with light skin and blue or green eyes). This morning I got called Colorado by a professor at my university, which mean "ginger" or "red haired" because my beard is red haired.
I sometimes get "Gallego" which means Spanish because of my last name (Nuñez). Italian get called Tanos, etc etc.
The entire country is based on giving people nicknames. And negro is one of the only one that is not based on someone's apperance.
It's really crazy that it's the one causing controversy when I know at least ten people that are called fatty or midget even by their family.
Its complicated. You can't use an American context to say its good or bad.
Edit: im watching these videos from guatemala and they give people "Chino" or "chinito" as nicknames. Not sure why but its not racist or negative but some from the outside can think it is. The people in question don't look Asian at all either.
My mom was called "negra" by another sibling but she inst black. It was a form of endearment.
Edit: im watching these videos from guatemala and they give people "Chino" or "chinito" as nicknames. Not sure why but its not racist or negative but some from the outside can think it is. The people in question don't look Asian at all either.
My mom was called "negra" by another sibling but she inst black. It was a form of endearment.
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At least where I'm from you can use it as a term of endearment or nickname, but I've never seen it used to refer to an actual black person, so I guess people do feel it is a little racially charged. It is nowhere near the equivalent of the n word, as someone here was saying, but it can definitely be said in a hateful way, just depends on context.
I personally don't call people that and to be honest I associate it more with something someone older would say. It is completely different from something like "chino" which is used by pretty much everyone to refer to people who look of East Asian descent, and as far as I know doesn't really have the same baggage, at least from talking to people nicknamed that.
I personally don't call people that and to be honest I associate it more with something someone older would say. It is completely different from something like "chino" which is used by pretty much everyone to refer to people who look of East Asian descent, and as far as I know doesn't really have the same baggage, at least from talking to people nicknamed that.
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Where do you live, actually? It's kind of strange that the most obvious reference to colour, you can't make it easier than black or white, shouldn't actually be racial. Not attacking you, it's really just baffling to me.
You still didn't answer me: Are the native people that call me negro racists?
Like I said to you numerous times, Argentina is a fucked up country when it comes to racism. And the word negro is used in a racist way often. This one use is one of the broadest way do adress someone there is here.
I'm from Argentina. It's a very white and racist country, no doubt about that. But "negro" in a casual and affectionate context is used by parents, grandmas, street vendors, shop employees, you name it really. And I get called negro often despite being very very white. I understand that it has no equivalent in other countries, and I know that it has a racial origin. But the thing is the entire country is based on people giving themselves nicknames based on physical appearance (fatty, baldy, skinny, small, curly, pale, etc.).
People with darker skin and blue or green eyes are often called "Turco" for turkish. There's really a thousand examples
If you follow football in Europe you probably heard some of them: pulga means flee for Messi, Simeone is called Cholo which means "mixed" basically, Di Maria is calle "fideo" which means pasta (he is tall and skinny)
This one (negro) got so widespread that it just refers to anyone now, white or non white.
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I don't speak spanish, but as someone who lives in a place where race conversations never really seem to climb above sophomoric, i can see in this thread a lot of the same fallbacks to ensure authority on the topic and avoid further scrutiny.
are you actually black if no then it depends of what they meant if a native person calls me that with me being black you tell me. what should i feel if you know so much tell me.
In my country there was an urban artist called "Nigga", he got famous in Latin America, especially in Mexico, like top 1 billboard for weeks; and he got famous not because of his name, none really cared or even realized it, but because his songs. At one point, in order to reach North America, he had to change his name from "Nigga" to "Flex". But the dude is still remembered in his homeland as "Nigga".
You see, Latin America is another story when we call people with those terms, even the light-dark skin, "Mi Negro, Negrito, Chombo, Chocolate" etc, etc.
You see, Latin America is another story when we call people with those terms, even the light-dark skin, "Mi Negro, Negrito, Chombo, Chocolate" etc, etc.
Sorry but that artist's name was always absolutely wrong and ignorant. Big difference.
Oh yeah, I get what you mean. What you're saying makes perfect sense. And yet.
This is Alberto Olmedo, one of Argentina's most popular comedians from the 70s and 80s (I never liked his humor personally, but that's besides the point.) Known to most people over here as "El negro" Olmedo. Whatever racial component there was to the nickname disappeared long ago.
Now "Ruso" is problematic as fuck because it's used almost exclusively with people with Jewish last names so... yeah.
Here in Panama something like this isn't offensive. They even use worse ones that I do find offensive, but not them, like: "Gracias chombo".
Just that in my experience when I can swear someone it's not a spanish speaker because how weird it sounds how they talk to me, it ends up being that they actually speak spanish and are from the caribbean. Dont want to make the mistake of assuming someone is not from spanish speaking latin america.
Yep, our society is pretty racist agaisnt jews.Oh yeah, I get what you mean. What you're saying makes perfect sense. And yet.
This is Alberto Olmedo, one of Argentina's most popular comedians from the 70s and 80s (I never liked his humor personally, but that's besides the point.) Known to most people over here as "El negro" Olmedo. Whatever racial component there was to the nickname disappeared long ago.
Now "Ruso" is problematic as fuck because it's used almost exclusively with people with Jewish last names so... yeah.
I'm white, I said it to you several times. That's my whole point, it's used indiscrimately across the board.
And again, Argentina is a really racist country, and you would probably suffer from it if you lived there. It's bad, and expressed in the most casual ways.
But this use of the term negro is really the most inoffensive way of adressing someone, brown, black or white.
Yes... it is common practice that EVERYONE is involved... if you are indeed a little bit dark or brown or a thin or thick. Here we like to call people by their color of their skin (if tends to darkness) and shape of body so: negrita,, moreno, flaco, flaca, godo, gorda its common and it's not seen as a racist practice or a body shame practice. NEVERTHELESS people do suffer with to body type calling.
Here's some more for all you non LatAms: papi/mami (mommy/daddy) are used in some places to refer to anyone of that sex with no sexual or flirtatious connotations. Tío/tía (uncle/aunt) function similarly in South America.
That is to say, a lot of these "nicknames" are just that. While some may have questionable origins it's important to note language evolves and the prevalence of, ultimately, meaningless nicknames in LatAm.
That is to say, a lot of these "nicknames" are just that. While some may have questionable origins it's important to note language evolves and the prevalence of, ultimately, meaningless nicknames in LatAm.
I thought It was stupid from the beginning, but many people didn't realize it. You could listen his name being spelled in national television, few realized the name was directly racist.
I cannot fathom how he came up with that name. Dude seems humble and all, but yikes..
Like every country in Latam, language is a very local thing. The only true way to know in this particular case if the use of the term is racist is to ask a black uruguayan how he feels, because again, the jargon we use in the continent are entirely local.
For example the term güerito that mexicans use is nonexistant in my country (Peru) and we just use the term Gringo for anyone who is white. Probably because we have a much lower amount of white people in the country so the term was never born organically. Meanwhile negrito and Chinito is far more common because like 40% of the population is some sort of darker shade and theres a big amount of people that have Chinese or Japanese roots.
Furthermore, Puerto Ricans are, like everyone else is in Latam, saddled with their own particular context, as they never really stoped being a "colonia" and had to build their culture around the fact that they are a territory of the united states (which is not something negative, im just pointing out that every country in Latam has their own circumstances, those two are just puerto ricans).
In recent years, all across Latam, theres sort of a movement to reclaim the things we have and shed the embarrasement we displayed with them(born from the colonial era). So for example, before the 90s in Peru most people didnt eat Quinua (associated with being poor) but now everyone does, because the country has embraced their culinary legacy, and in the same way you will see a lot of people pushback on the moderation of our language because a lot of people are already very tired of having been used and supressed culturaly by the west for literally hundred of years.
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