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Camjo-Z

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,541
So what's the deal with Sonic Forces, is it worth 20 bucks or nah? Still kind of itching for some Sawnik after replaying SA2.

This may be a rare opinion but I think it's really not such a bad game on your first go around. I had a good time playing through the story and going back to get all the collectibles and avatar parts. The problem with Forces is that once you're past the novelty of your first playthrough, the cracks really start to show. It's all flash and no substance, which was always a criticism of the Boost games (boost to win!) but was never really true until now. The many QTEs and scripted sections that were neat the first time become dull and tedious, and even the best levels on offer are boring to revisit when they last two minutes tops.

So basically, good for a playthrough, bad for a replay. Up to you whether you think that's worth 20 bucks.
 

Berordn

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,771
NoVA
So what's the deal with Sonic Forces, is it worth 20 bucks or nah? Still kind of itching for some Sawnik after replaying SA2.
It's a weak game that poorly emulates Generations, but wouldn't have even been that bad if the level design ever moved past being a single hallway.
 
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Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,811
So what's the deal with Sonic Forces, is it worth 20 bucks or nah? Still kind of itching for some Sawnik after replaying SA2.
Uh some people will say its not the worst thing in the world, and its not but its not as middling as some people think. The classic sonic sections which are a sizable potion of the game, are unfun. And classic sonic's inclusion isn't fun, he doesn't belong it feels cynical as hell and a version of a character for some that is supposed to envoke childish nostalgia is just kinda sad and there. The " buddy " character is interesting and the character creator is neat as you unlock stuff, but he's not the most fun to play. Sonic's sections are fine, but a poorly executed version previous boost gameplay. The story is, not even a story. Things occur everyone looks like shit in it and, its also just not fun.

However, I think the 3d sonic sections are neat in the sense of you can fuck bout them and cheese them hard, and they are fun to mess around in. And the character creator is fun to mess around with.
So if you want to buy a game find a 100% save file and just fuck about in sonic levels as sonic or shadow and fuck around with a character creator , and use your weird creations in cutscenes. It is maybe worth 10 bucks.

However if you want to pay attention to those scenes, you want to actually play those avatar levels. If you actually want to play the classic sonic levels. If you actually want to have a video game experience combining gameplay story and stuff. Its actually kind of a bad video game and wait till its very cheap.
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,375
Thanks for the feedback.

I just want a 3D Sonic on Switch :( Port SA2B and Generations plssssss Sega
 

BlazeHedgehog

Member
Oct 27, 2017
702
My opinion on Sonic Forces, as condensed as I can get it:

Levels are extremely poorly paced and you'll often unexpectedly cross the finish line at what feels like the level's halfway point.

Levels are also full of some of the most aggressive "plays itself" scripting a Sonic game has had in a long time, maybe ever.

Create-a-character is an interesting idea handled in the worst way. Your options for customization are severely limited and you unlock new clothing options as you play the game. If you have something specific in mind, it's possible you'll finish the game and still not have all of the clothing you need to make what you want.

Classic Sonic's gameplay isn't as bad as Sonic 4 but it's definitely worse than Sonic Generations, and feels increasingly tired as you near the end of the game.

They want you to be super invested in the story but it's swiss cheese bullshit where the most interesting thing is why they never address the fact a time traveler character is just there for the entire duration of the game without any explanation of where they came from or if they're going back to their own time

There are fleeting moments of fun but they are smaller and more spread out than ever before

Not worth even the curiosity
 

Berordn

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,771
NoVA
honestly i'm not even sure that's true

s4e2 is more playable than forces classic sonic imo
forces classic has at least 4ish levels with decent design where you're not expected to just hold right and homing attack chains of enemies

it's damning with faint praise but there are components of forces classic that feel like they actually came from a classic game, where 4EP2 was secretly trying its hardest to be a boost game
 

Unknownlight

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 2, 2017
10,643
This is really weird. I went to the Steam page for Sonic Forces because I was curious about its recent user reviews, and maybe it has a modding scene or something... I wasn't checking for any real reason.

...I own Sonic Forces. It says "Sonic Forces is already in your Steam library". I can download it right now. I don't remember this.

I must have gotten it as part of a Humble Bundle... and somehow didn't notice? This has never happened before.
 

Edward850

Software & Netcode Engineer at Nightdive Studios
Verified
Apr 5, 2019
998
New Zealand
I just want a 3D Sonic on Switch :( Port SA2B and Generations plssssss Sega
Frankly even (if not especially) Unleashed would be a good option. Not sure why that game is forced to languish slamming head first into 7th generation hardware limitations. Even the Xbox One backwards compatibility struggles.
So much unnecessary missed potential.
 

Deleted member 2474

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,318
Frankly even (if not especially) Unleashed would be a good option. Not sure why that game is forced to languish slamming head first into 7th generation hardware limitations. Even the Xbox One backwards compatibility struggles.
So much unnecessary missed potential.

not sure the switch would solve unleashed's performance issues either. i remember talking to some of the unleashed project folks who ported the stages to generations on pc years ago (perhaps Dario can chime in) about some of the performance issues, particularly in adabat, and iirc it's largely cpu bottlenecks that required a pretty good PC at the time (2012-2013, so like, sandy/ivy bridge) to brute force through. kinda doubt the switch CPU is up to it.
 

TheOGB

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
10,018
I also got Sonic Forces when it was free with PS+ and beat it. We were not kidding when we said that shit was aggressively mediocre in 2017, because goddamn does that game get AGGRESSIVE in its mediocrity towards the end.

It's one of the two most frustrating Sonic games to me (Lost World being the other), and not necessarily due to frustrating gameplay, but its entire concept and execution. It feels like there was no reason for it to end up the way it did. Like even with some weird things about it, there was recent precedent it could follow to success, but it still managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
 
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Edward850

Software & Netcode Engineer at Nightdive Studios
Verified
Apr 5, 2019
998
New Zealand
not sure the switch would solve unleashed's performance issues either. i remember talking to some of the unleashed project folks who ported the stages to generations on pc years ago (perhaps Dario can chime in) about some of the performance issues, particularly in adabat, and iirc it's largely cpu bottlenecks that required a pretty good PC at the time (2012-2013, so like, sandy/ivy bridge) to brute force through. kinda doubt the switch CPU is up to it.
I was thinking more resolution and base framerate, which the Switch CPU should be able to edge out. But heck, just any platform other than the 360 & PS3, hell it should be a shoe-in for a PC port and yet here we are.
 

Darío

Member
Oct 27, 2017
72
not sure the switch would solve unleashed's performance issues either. i remember talking to some of the unleashed project folks who ported the stages to generations on pc years ago (perhaps Dario can chime in) about some of the performance issues, particularly in adabat, and iirc it's largely cpu bottlenecks that required a pretty good PC at the time (2012-2013, so like, sandy/ivy bridge) to brute force through. kinda doubt the switch CPU is up to it.
That generation of consoles took advantage of the fact that draw calls were very, very cheap compared to PCs. I'm not aware of how the situation is in current consoles, but Adabat in particular has an absolutely ridiculous amount of plants instanced around the level.

You could probably optimize something like this by merging the geometry and bruteforce it with newer GPUs (I actually did that so Lost World could load the stage) if the CPU turns out to be a bottleneck. The shading rates are just a lot faster nowadays.
 

Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,811
They want you to be super invested in the story but it's swiss cheese bullshit where the most interesting thing is why they never address the fact a time traveler character is just there for the entire duration of the game without any explanation of where they came from or if they're going back to their own timeThat
That's not even the worst part, at least they kind of explain it in the prequel comic. The worst thing is that time traveler is a telekinetic that's his thing, like shadow's thing is time space fuckery, that's silver's thing. And he is fighting a guy , who could be easily be surprised and beaten by this power he instead flies at him like a dumb ass untill he gets knocked down and sonic saves him.

And that just sort of speaks to every narrative problem, and where your swiss cheese analogy hits home. I know sonic games don't got best narratives, right. But this is something else, things just happen. Nothing is explained, nothing. They have this entire cast of characters, from eggman to sonic to charmy the friggin be effectively do nothing and really get nothing done, to push infinite a character in retrospect no one seems to like much and doesn't do anything himself. Its a game where nothing happens entirely in service of trying to get a character over, who does nothing. Things just happen. And i'm a fan of dumb silly stories with flimsily explained stuff if its enganging, this is children's media it doesn't need rock solid lore, but it fails even a basic level of telling a story.

For some people gameplay is king , and that's the worst part. Understandable. But for me , narratively this game's failure kind of facinating. Because every element of its narrative could be used to tell a much better story , but its just not.

Like even with some weird things about it, there was recent precedent it could follow to success, but it still managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
On a narrative level its wild.

Like ok, let me break out my writer bag real quick.

You got infinite , this character who can create illusions. They just have him just...shoot lazers at people and fly. Instead of I dunno and here me out here, use those illusions to sow distrust among the characters. They stop being friends and when isolated that's when eggman takes advantage and enacts world domination. You create your character, and your character loves these old heroes and are trying to investigate why these old characters are gone, in that investigation you find silver a guy who's looking for his friends but they can't be found and who can are acting strange. Your character explains to him what's up and you get your first " partner" character. And essentially the game is you going through levels and going through the story uncovering the mystery of what happened to break these friends groups up to destroy this aliance and uncovering it was masterminded by eggman's new mysterious lackey. ( and it would problably be more focused around the " buddy" character and there would be multiple types of partner characters with team up abilities to really push home the friendship is cool angle) You eventually get the bands back together, team up and beat eggman saving the day.

That sounds like a much better scenario. Now obviously making a game is easier said than done, but its baffling that the game does nothing with in its own narrative to use its parts effectively or to reinforce any of its ideas as rudimentary as they may be.

Like there are so many things done in this game to get cheap pops but the pops don't work. Like " villain " trailer instead of that , the first trailer instead of classic sonic its every single sonic character running to fight eggman. And then the next trailer is like " Months later " or " a year later" and then its some unknown wolf kid running down instead of the villians, its all the sonic characters in these like dystopian ass gangs, fighting. That's mystery everyone would be confused, there would be a thing to buy your game and find out out about. Instead of a cheap plot twist everyone figured out from trailer 1


But instead of that or any other thing i'm sure any of you could come up with . Its just a really really poor attempt at doing a sonic adventure kind of thing with infinite. And its just bad, they clearly don't know why shadow works, and even with in this missed opportunity there was another missed oppertunity which is infinite when his whole story is layed out runs parrallel to shadow considering the connection they made dlc to create and point out , the entire story is just him having nothing to do with any of that and doing nothing. So they made this character a shadow derivative. Who runs opposite in terms of morals and goals as an established character, where the narrative would work best showing you how opposite these characters are. And not only is this is not executed, it is not even noticed by the staff making the game. If you wanted to capture a specific kind of nostalgia THAT'S HOW YOU DO THAT. Instead of " hey look chaos is here, you all like chaos right " . Half the conversation around that trailer was people being upset why this litteral angry spirit who had found peace was once again around , but bad. It didn't even get the pop they wanted, how did they not know , do they know anything about why people ANYTHING.

I just... I just can't with this game.

" Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory" is right.

Everything in this game is bad version of a thing that already exist or potentially a bad version of a thing that could exist. I just... I just don't
 

Nali

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,677



All the remixes I was expecting in Mario & Sonic 2020 wound up in the mobile game instead.
 

Camjo-Z

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,541



All the remixes I was expecting in Mario & Sonic 2020 wound up in the mobile game instead.


The game has a shocking amount of effort put into it. I doubt it'll get the attention it deserves considering it's a mobile game releasing over a year before the event it's advertising will happen (if it even happens), but I hope every future entry follows its lead. Nearly every complaint I have ever had about this series is fixed in the new one. Events are simple but engaging and don't require you to memorize a million different control schemes, they actually change up in neat ways when you play them multiple times, and they all have an awesome remix of a Sonic song.

All they need to do is finally make a story mode that isn't either ultra barebones like this one or needlessly padded out with dull filler like... well, every story mode they've ever done besides Winter Games DS (though I do appreciate how quickly you move between events in this game). I could also complain about the lack of Dream Events, but honestly I kind of prefer the approach they take here. Focus on making normal events more arcadey and fun and inject them with some Sonic elements instead of having an obvious divide between "the boring normal events" and "THE WACKY FUN EVENTS!!!".
 

Roliq

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Sep 23, 2018
6,236
Also another important thing: MORE CHARACTERS, it's ridiculous that the normal playable roster has stayed the same since the second game (from 2009) and that specific events lets you play as one extra exclusive character like how Rosalina is only playable in Surfing, it's so dumb
 

Setsune

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,649
The Sonic Studio dev (Lapper) is so ridiculously multi-talented. In addition to working on Sonic Studio, in addition to doing all the fresh spritework, in addition to drawing terrific promo artwork, in addition to working on other projects like Freedom Planet 2 and Kyle & Lucy, they're putting together these carefully edited videos with motion-tracked visual effects using 3D models they made and textured themselves along with other post-processing.
 

RadzPrower

One Winged Slayer
Member
Jan 19, 2018
6,088
I just wish that Sonic Studio would come out already. Super Mario Maker did wonders for the making and sharing of levels (even Mega Maker to some extent...I really should check back in on that...).
 

Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,811
New toys

2rwb0wnbe6y41.jpg
 

BlazeHedgehog

Member
Oct 27, 2017
702
Definitely want that Eggman. The only Eggman figure I've ever had is that Toy Island one from back in the Sonic Adventure 2 days and he was kind of crap and had almost zero articulation
 

Tizoc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,792
Oman
Dear SEGA and Sonic fangame creators
Please stop using Green Hill Zone already
Emerald Hill is the super stage
 

Unknownlight

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 2, 2017
10,643
Dear SEGA and Sonic fangame creators
Please stop using Green Hill Zone already
Emerald Hill is the super stage

To think that once upon a time playing Green Hill Zone again was such a special, unexpected reward that you had to earn it by collecting every single emblem in SA2.

Emerald Hill Zone is cool, but another alternative is Greenflower Zone.

 

Nali

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,677
Yeah, the hit timing on those loop blockers is real tight and I think you have to not be holding anything on the d-pad either.
 
OP
OP
Professor Beef

Professor Beef

Official ResetEra™ Chao Puncher
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,506
The Digital World
Yeah, the hit timing on those loop blockers is real tight and I think you have to not be holding anything on the d-pad either.
Yeah I finally figured that out when I was testing timings for the hammer at the end of the loop. I'm *strictly* going the Knuckles route starting from Ice Cap from now on.

EDIT: Also in that second clip, I didn't highlight it, but I purposefully died because there was no way I was going to finish the act in time.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,466
Hope the next movie is an improvement now that it won't have to deal with the weird situation the first one did. Honestly though I liked it a lot more than I expected to - it was fun enough.