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Fliesen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,254
How come this isn't a problem on smartphone oleds?

It kinda is.

OLED burn in is an issue when the wear on your screen isn't uniform. i.e. if you're excessively playing a certain game with a bright UI, or if you're watching a channel with specific logos / banners much more than you watch random other content. On a smartphone, most apps have slightly different UIs. Games and Media fill the entire screen.

Google's Pixel 2 had burn-in from displaying the same interface elements across all apps. bright white buttons on a black background, no less)
google-pixel-2-xl-unboxing-first-impressions-15-of-30-840x473.jpg

pixel-2-XL.jpg


Which is why "always visible software buttons" were a bad idea, as opposed to: hardware buttons; or software buttons that disappear; or a higher focus on gestures.
 

Zojirushi

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,299
Hm if I use a living room PC I guess this will probably be a problem because of static Windows elements (taskbar etc.)?
 

ty_hot

Banned
Dec 14, 2017
7,176
I am wondering if having Samsung's Always On Display will end up burning my phone' screen?

When it comer to OLED TVs, I've read that the B7 was the last 'very problematic' one and that after that they implemented several measures to reduce Burn In but I am always under the impression that we might be just waiting a few years for those newer sets to start to show more burn in. But I still want one because they look crisp af
 

DaleCooper

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,852
unfortunately (fortunately?) I just got the panel replaced, so all I have is this closeup on the GPM pause button to remember all the good times.

7AtXX3d.jpg
Ouch. Good that you could get it replaced.

I'm way too scared of OLED wear to ever buy a large TV or monitor. That said, I typically keep my displays for many years, so perhaps OLED isn't really for me.
 

Blah

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,602
I posted it last page but the oval at the middle left part of the screen is from another car's name tag on Rocket League. It's not as if I was sitting in one place on the field with another guy next to me for 10 hours straight or something. That happened basically instantaneously in a place for maybe a second since cars are obviously constantly moving. That area has a green oval over anything I watch now.

I love the way the OLED looks but that's not even a situation where a static image is harming the screen. That really isn't acceptable and LG replacing the panel for free basically confirms that as well. I hope the newer models have less of an issue, which I've heard they are better.
(this also ignores the banding and clear uniformity issues that have cropped up as well)

20201205_224922.jpg
 
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Dezzy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,435
USA
I have a CX which I love, but this stuff always makes me nervous. I don't play multiplayer games on console so there's no game I'd play for hundreds of hours, so I might be a bit safer.
 

msdstc

Member
Nov 6, 2017
6,876
So if I buy the geek squad extended warranty... In 5 years I can just essentially trade up my tv for the newest model? Am I reading this right?
 

Telaso

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,674
So if I buy the geek squad extended warranty... In 5 years I can just essentially trade up my tv for the newest model? Am I reading this right?

I kind of did this. I had the 5 yr warranty on my old Sony, but about 4.5 years in, 2 of the HDMI ports stopped working. Geek Squad couldn't get the parts to fix it, so after asking for a repair and waiting for 2 months, they just gave me the price of the TV towards another. I assume something needs to be wrong with the TV for them to pay it out.

Got a LGC9 for 500 bucks effectively.
 

msdstc

Member
Nov 6, 2017
6,876
I kind of did this. I had the 5 yr warranty on my old Sony, but about 4.5 years in, 2 of the HDMI ports stopped working. Geek Squad couldn't get the parts to fix it, so after asking for a repair and waiting for 2 months, they just gave me the price of the TV towards another. I assume something needs to be wrong with the TV for them to pay it out.

Got a LGC9 for 500 bucks effectively.

Well I'm definitely buying that warranty that. I do way too much gaming for this to survive 5 years without some level of burn in
 

hydruxo

ā–² Legend ā–²
Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,443
That sucks man. Burn-in is a big reason why I didn't go with an OLED when I got a new TV this year. For the price you pay for one, I'd be so paranoid about it.
 

TheMadTitan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
27,252
It is. I've gotten UI burn in on a number of phones with OLED screens.
My sister's last phone had significant UI burn in from her navbar. I've avoided burn in on every AMOLED phone I've owned through a combination of not cranking out the brightness and customization via custom colors on the navbar through other apps, hiding the navbar unless it's actively being used, or custom gestures.

I think keeping the brightness down during general usage plays a bigger part of it.

Most people don't change the TV settings from their defaults once they pull it out of the box, and all TVs are defaulted to brightness levels suited for a brightly lit store HEET wall.

I'm sure turning down the brightness of an OLED TV to at least the HDR minimum if you have an HDR set, would go a long, long way.
 

Dezzy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,435
USA
I posted it last page but the oval at the middle left part of the screen is from another car's name tag on Rocket League. It's not as if I was sitting in one place on the field with another guy next to me for 10 hours straight or something. That happened basically instantaneously in a place for maybe a second since cars are obviously constantly moving. That area has a green oval over anything I watch now.

I love the way the OLED looks but that's not even a situation where a static image is harming the screen. That really isn't acceptable and LG replacing the panel for free basically confirms that as well. I hope the newer models have less of an issue, which I've heard they are better.
(this also ignores the banding and clear uniformity issues that have cropped up as well)

20201205_224922.jpg
how many cumulitave hours do you think it took for this level of burn in to happen?
 

shadow_shogun

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,743
That's suck. Thankfully I've been able to avoid burn-ins as I've been using my phone and tablet to watch CNN for the past 2 years. Also, since my B8's screen saver can't be manually enabled for some reason, I always have the Apple TV Aerial screen saver on when a game or movie is paused.
 

molnizzle

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,695
The newer models are "better" about burn-in mostly because they are newer and people haven't had as much time to burn them in.

At the end of the day, your OLED screen will develop burn-in over time if the same static content is displayed on it for hundreds of hours. There's no way around it. It's just how the tech works.

I love my OLED but it lives in the media room for movies and streaming TV series. Video games and cable TV get played in the living room on an LCD. Better for bright environments anyway.
 

Blah

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,602
how many cumulitave hours do you think it took for this level of burn in to happen?

I've owned the TV for 3 years but I'd say I've only been regularly using it for 1.5. I bought it then moved to an apartment where I couldn't really use it at all, so it's only been more relatively recently that I've used it every day. At the top right you can see the faint Youtube symbol and that's entirely been since quarantine started in March. I legit have no clue what's on the right side of the screen. I don't watch anything with a static vertical bar there.

It's really hard for me to say hour-wise but maybe 3000 hours, if I do some sloppy math.
 

LakeEarth

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,179
Ontario
Hopefully my CX won't have this problem, at least not as bad. As someone who plays fighting games a lot, health bar burn in is a worry. I'll do my best to rotate my gaming as much as possible.

Also, keeping the brightness a bit low is also supposed to help, right?
 

Roo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,049
I don't know the answer to that but it sounds like the next best thing.
Was doing some research earlier today and it looks like it's best of both worlds, supposedly.
LED's peak brightness, OLED's perfect blacks, perfect view at any angle and the best... no image retention//burn in.

Seems like the only problem right now is that they're hard as hell to manufacture due to the millions and millions of pixels each panel needs and they can't get them at reasonable sizes for mass consumption yet. (The smallest is 75" or something like that)

It all sounds like a dream to me so I'm cautiously optimistic. If microLED actually delivers... oh boy!
We'll see in 4-5 years where this goes. šŸ¤”šŸ¤”
 
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bionic77

Member
Oct 25, 2017
30,895
Was doing some research earlier today and it looks like it's best of both worlds, supposedly.
LED's peak brightness, OLED's perfect blacks, perfect view at any angle and the best... no image retention//burn in.

Seems like the only problem right now is that they're hard as hell to manufacture due to the millions and millions of pixels each panel needs and they can't get them at reasonable sizes for mass consumption yet. (The smallest is 75" or something like that)

It all sounds like a dream to me so I'm cautiously optimistic. If microLED actually delivers... oh boy!
We'll see in 4-5 years where this goes. šŸ¤”šŸ¤”
OLED was perfect but too expensive I want to say like 7 years ago.

I can ditch my OLED in 7 years and upgrade to the microLED.
 
Oct 29, 2017
3,522
I'm currently shopping for a 65" LG CX. Is it realistic to expect it to drop down to $1.6k-1.8k range anytime in the next month or two? I think I've seen it around there during black friday, but I was not ready to pull the trigger yet.
 
OP
OP
Golding

Golding

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,807
I'm currently shopping for a 65" LG CX. Is it realistic to expect it to drop down to $1.6k-1.8k range anytime in the next month or two? I think I've seen it around there during black friday, but I was not ready to pull the trigger yet.
I'm actually looking for a 77 inch model of a cx.. so scared to pulled trigger after this..... idk..i'm hearing of microled... i wonder how far off that is.
 

Deleted member 49482

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 8, 2018
3,302
This is true for major appliances these days, our national broadcaster did a story about it but it is not known to be the case for TV's (yet). It's a pretty easy strawpoll to find friends and relatives (particularly fixed income seniors) to successfully keep their LCD/LED TV for at least a decade.
Shit, I still have my plasma because it's the best 1080p set I've ever owned. Not going to ditch that until it dies.
We are on sort of an enthusiast forum when it comes to electronics, as well as a forum where the subject hobby has pushed adoption of new TV technology, but I never fail to be surprised when I hear of people buying a new TV every five years.

I'm still rocking a ten-year old (as of this month!) Panasonic Plasma, and to be honest, I don't have much of a desire to upgrade in the short-term even though I'd have no constraints with buying a top of the line TV with cash tomorrow. Anecdotally, most of the friends/family I know seem to keep their TVs closer to ten years than five.

Really informative thread though. Some of the current TV tech (and what is expected in the near future) sounds really awesome. I'm going to have my work cut out for me whenever I begin researching my next purchase.
 

Puggles

Sometimes, it's not a fart
Member
Nov 3, 2017
2,877
Ouch. I just upgraded my TV and really wanted a CX but ended up settling for a Q90T as it will mostly be used as a PC monitor. Hopefully microled will be affordable by the time I need to upgrade.
 

bionic77

Member
Oct 25, 2017
30,895
I'm actually looking for a 77 inch model of a cx.. so scared to pulled trigger after this..... idk..i'm hearing of microled... i wonder how far off that is.
I just bought that tv last week.

Its fucking amazing.

I am not worried about the burn in either. The examples I have seen are pretty minor honestly and nothing like what I remember on really old plasma or projection sets. Plus you are not hearing from all of the people that didn't have burn in which I assume is still the majority of users.
 

Ain't Nobody

Member
Oct 30, 2017
671
wish my cx will last 4 years
It's interesting because TV technology continues to rapidly evolve, and we've normalized replacing TVs like replacing sneakers, but does anyone else remember having one console television from the dawn of conscious thought until moving out of your parents' house? The TV just...was. It was as much a fixture as the kitchen table.
 

Vormund

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,504
I really wanted a CX but I couldn't trust it around my kids, they tend to leave Netflix on in the menu. Not good when I am at work. They are only 4 so get easily distracted.
 

TyrantII

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,367
Boston
I posted it last page but the oval at the middle left part of the screen is from another car's name tag on Rocket League. It's not as if I was sitting in one place on the field with another guy next to me for 10 hours straight or something. That happened basically instantaneously in a place for maybe a second since cars are obviously constantly moving. That area has a green oval over anything I watch now.

I love the way the OLED looks but that's not even a situation where a static image is harming the screen. That really isn't acceptable and LG replacing the panel for free basically confirms that as well. I hope the newer models have less of an issue, which I've heard they are better.
(this also ignores the banding and clear uniformity issues that have cropped up as well)

20201205_224922.jpg

I mean, that seems like an edge case that shouldn't happen, and LG agrees and is making it right?

I don't discount your story, but do you have kids / a GF that also loves rocket league (just because that is very bad luck on some sort of defect). Dynamic images should not normally do that.

I'm about 2000 hours on my C9 with lots of hours in Destiny, streaming media, and twitch. No IR and no burn in yet, and good screen uniformity. With the way tech is advancing, I've come to expect upgrading every 4-6 years anyways.

Last set was a 2015 Samsung plasma thats got some early IR with Bloodbornes HUD, but was fine after a break in period. Before that was a Sony XBR2 that developed the dreaded "Green Blob" issue after only 4,000 hours. That was a major disappointment.
 

Blah

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,602
I mean, that seems like an edge case that shouldn't happen, and LG agrees and is making it right?

I don't discount your story, but do you have kids / a GF that also loves rocket league (just because that is very bad luck on some sort of defect). Dynamic images should not normally do that.

I'm about 2000 hours on my C9 with lots of hours in Destiny, streaming media, and twitch. No IR and no burn in yet, and good screen uniformity. With the way tech is advancing, I've come to expect upgrading every 4-6 years anyways.

Last set was a 2015 Samsung plasma thats got some early IR with Bloodbornes HUD, but was fine after a break in period. Before that was a Sony XBR2 that developed the dreaded "Green Blob" issue after only 4,000 hours. That was a major disappointment.

Yeah, LG is replacing the display even though it's 2 years out of warranty.

It's just me playing Rocket League and I agree that it's incredibly strange for that to burn in at that angle and location.

All my issues seemed to occur simultaneously so I'm inclined to believe I have a defective display that became worse once the TV started getting regular use.

They seem to be replacing displays because a more wide spread issue from the manufacture year I bought mine, according to the Reddit and AVS Forum posts. It does suck but I am glad I'm not just out of luck.
 

NuncaBob

Member
Dec 2, 2020
202
Eorzea
I have the new Vizio OLED. I don't know that it specifically has things to prevent this. I don't tend to watch news or things that have these kinds of logo tags or chyrons.

All that said, I use the new Chromecast with Google TV. It has settings that allow you to turn off things like image description, clock, etc. from the "ambient" view. It suggested this the first time I turned it on. "This appears to be an OLED screen. We suggest turning off these items." I thought that was pretty cool.
 

Pargon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,030
Seeing this makes me think that great CS is being used as cover for below average build quality.
It's not an issue with build quality - it's just how that type of display is.
But they are absolutely being generous with out-of-warranty replacements of OLED panels to not kill its reputation.

Joke aside, and honest question.. is microLED supposed to be an OLED replacement? A LCD/LED replacement?
What are the benefits of this technology vs the current stuff?
What are its disadvantages? šŸ¤”
Micro LED is the inorganic equivalent of OLED.
They're much brighter, more efficient, and have longer lifespans - so they should be significantly more resistant to burn-in than OLED.
Think of late-model direct-view CRTs. Outside of 24/7/365 use for things like airport displays, burn-in was essentially a solved problem by the mid-to-late '90s despite technically still being possible, because the longevity had been improved enough.
But it's likely 5+ years away before consumer displays are affordable, unless there is a breakthrough.

Yeah I can't say I advise it. Burn in is the tip of the iceberg too - OLEDs have two kinds of brightness limiters that cannot be disabled, called ABL and ASBL. The first kind dims the screen if the tv determines you've been on a static screen too long, which is literally all day every day on a PC. (I've heard this can be disabled with a service remote but cmon). I frequently have to alt tab while writing an email or designing something to reset the brightness. The second is a screen contrast thing where the brightest peak display dims depending on how much white content is on screen. So if I take a web browser and blow it up full screen, it'll look dimmer than if i display it windowed. You can't disable this one at all šŸ™ƒ
The Automatic Brightness Limiter (your second description) should be disabled on newer OLEDs if the brightness is set below 150 nits - and SDR is intended to be viewed at 100 nits.
It really shouldn't be an issue when used as a monitor, unless you have the display set extremely bright.

OLED burn in is an issue when the wear on your screen isn't uniform. i.e. if you're excessively playing a certain game with a bright UI, or if you're watching a channel with specific logos / banners much more than you watch random other content.
Please stop trying to frame burn-in as "excessive" use.
It's accumulated wear. Playing a game for one hour and then watching one hour of TV every week for a year should be equivalent to 52 hours of a game in a single week and then 52 hours of TV the next, as far as burn-in is concerned.

The difference should be that the wear is far more gradual in the first scenario, so you wouldn't notice it as easily.
In the second scenario you might end up with mild burn from the game which then fades as you watch the TV content.
This is a hypothetical example though - I don't know how many hours it would take for burn-in to be noticeable.

The newer models are "better" about burn-in mostly because they are newer and people haven't had as much time to burn them in.
At the end of the day, your OLED screen will develop burn-in over time if the same static content is displayed on it for hundreds of hours. There's no way around it. It's just how the tech works.
I love my OLED but it lives in the media room for movies and streaming TV series. Video games and cable TV get played in the living room on an LCD. Better for bright environments anyway.
They have different panels and additional features to reduce it.
It's not just that people haven't spent as much time with them.

I do, however, suspect that these improvements will mostly buy you another year or two before the panel ends up in the same state as an older model though.
 

Haint

Banned
Oct 14, 2018
1,361
Plasma "burn in" was often just really bad image retention and would gradually wear away over if you stopped viewing the offending content. Depending on how long you abused it, it could sometimes take 100+ hours to start fading. I used to play games with static HUDs for 80+ hours on end which most people would have sworn was burned in, but after finishing the games it always went away (even if it took a long time). I'm curious if these OLED are actually going to stay like the OP's image, or if (for example) he stopped watching CNN entirely for 100 or 200 hours, would the issue be noticeably reduced or gone after a long mix of viewing other content?
 

Fliesen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,254
Please stop trying to frame burn-in as "excessive" use.
It's accumulated wear. Playing a game for one hour and then watching one hour of TV every week for a year should be equivalent to 52 hours of a game in a single week and then 52 hours of TV the next, as far as burn-in is concerned.

The difference should be that the wear is far more gradual in the first scenario, so you wouldn't notice it as easily.
In the second scenario you might end up with mild burn from the game which then fades as you watch the TV content.
This is a hypothetical example though - I don't know how many hours it would take for burn-in to be noticeable.

Yeah, excessive was the wrong word. What i was trying to say is "overproportional". If your media consumption is high ("excessive", even) but very diverse with regards to channels, and type of content, the wear on your screen is going to be much more uniformly distributed across the entire panel and such, less noiceable, as opposed to having burn-in of very distinct lines and logos.
Bingeing Netflix 10 hours a day will lead to less noticeable burn-in than watching CNN (and only CNN) one hour a day. Because the former has no static image elements, while the latter does.
 
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MazeHaze

Member
Nov 1, 2017
8,584
I'm actually looking for a 77 inch model of a cx.. so scared to pulled trigger after this..... idk..i'm hearing of microled... i wonder how far off that is.
Microled is still many years away and requires a revolutionary breakthrough in the manufacturing process to become a viable consumer display technology.
 

PeterVenkman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,773
The Automatic Brightness Limiter (your second description) should be disabled on newer OLEDs if the brightness is set below 150 nits - and SDR is intended to be viewed at 100 nits.
It really shouldn't be an issue when used as a monitor, unless you have the display set extremely bright

Unfortunately I have a B6 - if I remember correctly, "newer" panels that removed this feature mean the 7 series or newer. As it stands, both ABL and ASBL negatively affect movies I watch, games I play and work I design on a daily basis. Hell I've been unable to finish the game Below because my tv thinks the image is static while I'm actively playing it so it dims the game beyond a playable brightness. I've followed all sorts of guides on how to minimize it by tweaking your brightness, contrast and OLED light settings but it doesn't work on older models; I can always see it, and the image you wind up with is washed out anyways.

For me to buy another OLED, both of those issues would need to be entirely removed AND burn in would have to be a non issue; I just don't see it happening. When my B6 finally kicks it, I'll have to buy a TV with different tech to tide me over until microLED (which I'm sure will have it's own unforeseen issues).
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,716
I have a similar issue and LG has offered the panel parts for free but I have to pay for the service, which will run me about $200 FYI