• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

Hellwarden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
34,141
Tanks don't seem all that tactically useful when the average foot soldier is equipped well enough to blow them to pieces.
 

Slatsunus

Member
Nov 2, 2017
3,219
Tanks don't seem all that tactically useful when the average foot soldier is equipped well enough to blow them to pieces.
This has been military theory for awhile, hence why the US Marines were already ditching all there tanks by 2023.

This war has just resoundingly proved the theory right.

They still have uses, but they don't dominate the field anymore and never will, same as the battleship
 

ragolliangatan

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Aug 31, 2019
4,488
Putin thought he was going to scoop up some new territory in a long weekend. He's nothing short of embarrassed at the way things have turned out, so he's killing civilians as a result of his frustration. He's going to need to be stopped sooner or later. If he sees nuclear threats are getting him what he wants, he'll keep using them. Unhinged as he may be, he'd better realize that if he actually did use a nuclear weapon, it would be the last goddamn thing he did on this Earth.

yeah, he is going to pull the nuclear war card anytime he wants to take what he wants. At some point somebody is going to have to call his bluff...
 

CoolOff

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
3,439

poklane

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,941
the Netherlands
Tanks don't seem all that tactically useful when the average foot soldier is equipped well enough to blow them to pieces.
It's honestly quite hilarious that at least a part of the Russian military thinks they can protect their vehicles by just putting a cage made of $20 worth of scrap metal on it. Do those idiots really think countries like the US and UK didn't test if their Javelins and NLAWs just go straight through that shit during development?
 

fragamemnon

Member
Nov 30, 2017
6,857


This is rough, once they get a forward operating base they are going to set up old-ass howitzers and MLRS and start trashing the city in earnest. Same thing as the other cities, they can't take it so they'll trap/starve/kill as many people as possible.

I keep hoping that there's something that can be done from the western part of the country to interfere with that.

My overarching concern is that this isn't a war Russia can win but it's also a war that Ukraine and the rest of the rules based world order can lose, if that makes any sense.

Regarding the oligarchs not being able to overthrow or displace Putin, only the security agencies-that's not exactly correct, in a culture of corruption everyone has their price and the oligarchs can buy the people they need out of the bureaucracy if both estates are being hit hard enough.

edit: cope cages might actually work against their own RPGs fired from elevation in urban environments, they are useless only because what the tanks are facing is not what they faced in Chechnya much less Syria.
 

thesoapster

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,910
MD, USA

Edward850

Software & Netcode Engineer at Nightdive Studios
Verified
Apr 5, 2019
992
New Zealand
Tanks don't seem all that tactically useful when the average foot soldier is equipped well enough to blow them to pieces.
Congratulations, you are over-qualified for the Russian military. Indeed, tanks are rather ill-suited for urban and most rural warfare due to restricted maneuvering, sight ranges, and forced constantly on the low ground of surrounding buildings and structures. They also need constant supply lines of fuel trucks which is tricky to perform for the same reasons.
 
Nov 8, 2017
13,115
Should have invested in active protection technology.

The USSR fielded the first ever hard kill active protection system, "Drozd" and has access to various types that including an EW one, and then "Arena" as their 90's version of the hard kill concept. The USSR also pioneered early research into explosive reactive armor. There's a lot of ERA on Russian tanks.

They never deployed the systems on every vehicle, though. The Soviet army had a high-low mix of a small number of their best stuff alongside a large amount of cheaper stuff. And their procurement and maintenance has atrophied since the end of the cold war. It's also likely that the AT weapons like the Javelin are generally effective at bypassing these systems. But even against standard, older RPGs, they were never 100% effective, so sophistecated top down attack munitions are of course going to do better.
 

SFLUFAN

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,416
Alexandria, VA
ISW analysis for 10 March 2022:

Institute for the Study of War

The likelihood is increasing that Ukrainian forces could fight to a standstill the Russian ground forces attempting to encircle and take Kyiv. Russian forces also appear to be largely stalemated around Kharkiv and distracted from efforts to seize that

The likelihood is increasing that Ukrainian forces could fight to a standstill the Russian ground forces attempting to encircle and take Kyiv. Russian forces also appear to be largely stalemated around Kharkiv and distracted from efforts to seize that city. Russian advances in the south around Mykolayiv and toward Zaporizhya and in the east around Donetsk and Luhansk made little progress as well in the last 24 hours. Russia likely retains much greater combat power in the south and east and will probably renew more effective offensive operations in the coming days, but the effective reach and speed of such operations is questionable given the general performance of the Russian military to date. There are as yet no indications that the Russian military is reorganizing, reforming, learning lessons, or taking other measures that would lead to a sudden change in the pace or success of its operations, although the numerical disparities between Russia and Ukraine leave open the possibility that Moscow will be able to restore rapid mobility or effective urban warfare to the battlefield.

Russian forces around Kyiv did not attempt to renew offensive operations on a multi-battalion scale on March 10 following the failure of limited efforts on March 8-9. Ukrainian forces badly damaged a Russian armored column in the Brovary area east of Kyiv, likely further disrupting Russian efforts to set conditions for offensive operations on the east bank of the Dnipro. Ukrainian resistance all along the Russian lines of communication from eastern Kyiv to the Russian border near Sumy continues to disrupt Russian efforts to bring more combat power to bear near the capital. The episodic, limited, and largely unsuccessful Russian offensive operations around Kyiv increasingly support the Ukrainian General Staff's repeated assessments that Russia lacks the combat power near the capital to launch successful offensive operations on a large scale.

Key Takeaways
  • Russian operations around Kyiv remained largely stalled over the past 24 hours.
  • Ukrainian forces badly damaged a Russian armored unit east of the capital, likely disrupting Russian efforts to encircle or assault the city from the east.
  • Russian forces continue to struggle in efforts to seize Chernihiv city and to secure the long ground lines of communication from Sumy, which the Ukrainians still hold, to eastern Kyiv.
  • A new Russian invasion from western Belarus, with or without Belarusian ground forces' support, appears increasingly unlikely.
  • Russian forces remain pinned down attempting to reduce Mariupol by siege and bombardment.
  • Russian efforts to bypass Mykolayiv and establish a reliable ground line of communication across the Southern Bug River to the north of Mykolayiv remain stalled.
  • Ukrainian air force and air defense operations continue to hinder Russian ground forces maneuver by likely limiting Russian close air support and exposing Russian mechanized forces to Ukrainian air and artillery attacks.

DraftUkraineCoTMarch10%2C2022.png
 

Tallshortman

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,636
They aren't. There's a reason the US military hasn't invested in them in a long time

Tanks can be very useful in a lot of situations including urban combat if used correctly with infantry support. Plus the US has invested plenty in Abrams upgrades as well as a next generation tank program (besides 1 that was already cancelled). They're extremely vulnerable when used as an end all be all weapon system with little to no infantry screening. This was already apparent in many previous wars including Chechnya. It's extremely strange the Russians never adapted.
 

NihonTiger

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,519
I am a Bird + American gas masks...

Uhh.. So I guess I found the attack vector? XD



Every once in a while, I think and laugh about this stupid gag from the British show (I think) called.. Look Around You. Which spoofed educational shows.

From the episode on water: What are birds? We just don't know..
OGC.12833049d189be1407123cf8ee0f42c6

Yep! Look Around You was fantastic. Ran on Adult Swim here in the U.S. and I loved it.
 

EagleClaw

Member
Dec 31, 2018
10,704
The USSR fielded the first ever hard kill active protection system, "Drozd" and has access to various types that including an EW one, and then "Arena" as their 90's version of the hard kill concept. The USSR also pioneered early research into explosive reactive armor. There's a lot of ERA on Russian tanks.

They never deployed the systems on every vehicle, though. The Soviet army had a high-low mix of a small number of their best stuff alongside a large amount of cheaper stuff. And their procurement and maintenance has atrophied since the end of the cold war. It's also likely that the AT weapons like the Javelin are generally effective at bypassing these systems. But even against standard, older RPGs, they were never 100% effective, so sophistecated top down attack munitions are of course going to do better.

Actually didn't know about Drosd, only knew about the active tiles.

Who knows if those systems are even activated.
Maybe not, because it was just a maneuver.
The loses are kinda high if they really have a working active protection.
It also looks like they go with high numbers instead of safety, there was a convoy that created a 5 miles traffic jam.
 

offtopic

Banned
Nov 21, 2017
2,694
It's not you. I just think it's a relevant aspect to discussion of the current circumstances.
Not sure why someone would warn you unless by "the inevitable" you specifically said nuclear war (which you did not). If by the inevitable you meant that there would come a point where NATO and Russian forces attack each other directly with unknown outcomes from that...that is fair game. We know this scenario as a fact if Russia steps foot on (or attacks) a NATO country so this is an important discussion. There are many non-doomsday ways that could play out.