• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

KingSnake

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,020
Cyberwar is the one thing that can be done and doesn't lead to a conventional or nuclear war. So if Biden is open to do that against Russia, go for it!
 

Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
53,496
I find it really jarring to see the press from CNN just filming this stuff while being completely ignored, I don't know why but it is like, a big disconnect or something.
The press are the press. They have been in warzones going back 100+ years. They are basically ignored by all sides unless someone is doing some really heinous stuff that they don't want to be seen.


It is weird though. Seeing a reporter just casually talking about he just talked to soldiers that likely just injured or killed another person is just bizarre.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,960
What do you want? NATO troops on the ground? They would have a lot more to concerned about than money and polling - that would incite WWIII and Russia has already threatened nuclear war to any opposing nation. It's crazy how we keep having these circular arguments still ITT.

1. Build a way to disconnect/sanction invaders economy, making the sanction-cost of invasion far too great.
2. Keep arming the defending nation with advanced weaponry and missiles, posing huge casulties for invading forces.
3. Do not do what Germany/Western Europe did - deny lethal air prior or sanction only post-action.

Leaders of EU, Germany and France allowed invasion dancing to the Putin's tune. EU with the lame pacifist leadership despite repeated Putin aggression, Macron with his naive ideas about brokering peace, and Germany with its energy dependance + strict no-aid policy. And even now, EU is still looking at financial/energy interest above peace, which boggles my mind.

Couldn't be more disappointed in EU (specifically Western) on how they handled Ukraine encirclement/invasion. Only notable European nations are freaking UK and Poland, delivering any meaningful amount of lethal aid. (Baltics too, but they simply don't have enough launchers/ammo to make a difference).

Absolutely pathetic, after dividing two trillions for covid economies WITH RECORD PROFITS FOR COPRORATIONS, we are still selling Ukraine lives for Russian gas and the oppotunity to sell luxuries to their thieves.
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
43,183
The nature of cyber attacks give governments deniability. Even if everyone knows where they're coming from, it's difficult to prove. I highly doubt that Biden will come out and say that the US is beginning a cyber campaign against Russia.

Yes, that is a possibility. I was speaking more to an official cyber attack, that is not going to happen.
 

Serpens007

Well, Tosca isn't for everyone
Moderator
Oct 31, 2017
8,135
Chile
Putin has invaded a country unprovoked. Obviously nobody wants US troops on the ground. But without that, you start to run into limited options. Sanctions and cyber attacks - something Russia has had no problem doing themselves. There are going to have to be some harsh tools considered given the situation.

I don't think most people want further escalations.

You mean like say "I declare cyberwar"? If they do it, they probably won't mention it. What would be gained by taking credit for it?

Even if they don't take credit for it, it still would be a dumb move when there are active global fear of the conflict getting bigger.
 

GoldenEye 007

Roll Tide, Y'all!
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,833
Texas
I don't think most people want further escalations.
Wouldn't harsh sanctions be an escalation too? Ukraine is actively at war. The escalation has already happened with bullets and bombs. If harsh sanctions are on the table that would be designed to cripple the Russian economy along with key people, why would cyber attacks suddenly be over the line?
 

Addie

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,787
DFW
The answer to cyberwar is cyberwar. Russia won't declare war to US over that.
You'd need to define what you mean by "cyberwar" here. Because for the Russians, it's another tool used in conventional warfare, usually to prep the battlefield prior to invasion. See: Georgia, for example.

Some of the options presented in that piece, like taking down the Russian power grid, would provoke escalation and possibly a conventional response. It depends on the target, the effect, and whether attribution can be established.

Correct. Saying otherwise is just fear mongering. Russia has also performed numerous large scale cyber attacks and nobody is at war over it
Agreed, to a point. This is why it's important to distinguish between cyber attacks, cyber intrusions, cyber espionage, and cyber warfare.
 

Turnscr3w

Member
Jan 16, 2022
5,172
it's not like us EU citizens should freeze to death until new natural gas with other partners are made. It was a grave mistake to make the Union to make us that much dependant to a single country. And I condemn Russia's actions, but I want to be actuallye be able to heat up my house
I understand that, but my country before even getting into the EU destroyed any possibility of having nuclear energy just to give more money to Russia. It's a combination of so many things and I'm getting really depressed :(.
Germany should have never shut down their nuclear energy program, and should have encourage it for the entire continent.
 

KingSnake

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,020
You'd need to define what you mean by "cyberwar" here. Because for the Russians, it's another tool used in conventional warfare, usually to prep the battlefield prior to invasion. See: Georgia, for example.

Some of the options presented in that piece, like taking down the Russian power grid, would provoke escalation and possibly a conventional response. It depends on the target, the effect, and whether attribution can be established.

What conventional attack can Russia mount against US for taking out the grid? Think well about the answer.
 

Micael

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,377
There is absolutely no reason why it needs to be NATO countries that have to commit the cyberattacks, handing out the tools for Ukraine to commit the cyberattacks would be no different from handing out weaponry, which NATO countries are already doing.
 

Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
53,496
There is absolutely no reason why it needs to be NATO countries that have to commit the cyberattacks, handing out the tools for Ukraine to commit the cyberattacks would be no different from handing out weaponry, which NATO countries are already doing.
But would they be able to do that in time to make a difference?

Meanwhile NATO countries have the capability now in the moment.
 

Serpens007

Well, Tosca isn't for everyone
Moderator
Oct 31, 2017
8,135
Chile
Wouldn't harsh sanctions be an escalation too? Ukraine is actively at war. The escalation has already happened with bullets and bombs. If harsh sanctions are on the table that would be designed to cripple the Russian economy along with key people, why would cyber attacks suddenly be over the line?

They're not the same. One, is that the escalation is between Ukraine and Russia, not between the US and Russia, so that is quite different. The other reason is that when you economically sanction you are doing actions inside your own, and your allies, sovereignty. Cyberattacks are different because they directly target points in a different nation
 

Dice

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,722
Canada
Crazy how choices of a man or a few men can be the cause of so much death and destruction
youtu.be

System Of A Down - B.Y.O.B. (Official HD Video)

Official HD music video for ”B.Y.O.B.” by System of a DownListen to System of a Down: https://SystemOfADown.lnk.to/listenYDSubscribe to the official System o...

It's fucked. Anyone pitching combat should be put in a room to duke it out with someone on their own instead of bringing countries of soldiers with them.



Honestly amazing. Too many people get fucked over by war, and it's great when people want to fight for peace even from their own nation.
 

Mezentine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,000
Jesus christ, I've been listening to NPR all day and when they finally shift coverage back to US speakers instead of European ones one of the first topics is "How is Biden's response to this polling so far?"

Just absolute brain worms
 
Oct 30, 2017
1,722
I understand that, but my country before even getting into the EU destroyed any possibility of having nuclear energy just to give more money to Russia. It's a combination of so many things and I'm getting really depressed :(.
Germany should have never shut down their nuclear energy program, and should have encourage it for the entire continent.
Nuclear Energy has nothing to do with the heating system / gas that we import from Russia.

The main culprit is the lack of modernizations / millions of old buildings with old heating systems.

Nuclear or not wouldn't have changed anything about this.
 

KingSnake

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,020
Nobody will declare they they did the cyber attacks. They can obfuscate them through Ukrainian routes and proxies. Come on. It's just a matter of if US wants to show what capabilities they have in this area.
 

Tom Penny

Member
Oct 26, 2017
19,405
It's crazy this dipshit Putin is willing to potentially collapse their whole nation and economy doing this. If the rest of the world cuts them off...good luck.