Riot Games announces League of Legends card game Legends of Runeterra

[Nordicus]

I haven't tried Eternal, but no other card game I've played besides Magic has ever gotten it right imo.

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So, Eternal's solution is better than MtG Arena, altho not as good as paper/MtGO pod drafts, obviously.

Arena went for "bots" to make it so drafting is always available. Eternal went for "your packs get uploaded to server, no wheeling". So signal reading is more difficult because you can't get signals from a full "pod", just the people whose packs already got uploaded and got passed on to you.

So you lose wheeling and some signaling, but you also don't have to deal with Eldraine Secretkeeper meta, because actual people made those picks and they aren't simply gone into the ether.

Heck, there is a proper mill deck in current Eternal draft format. It's just that it takes some skill and/or luck to pull off because the algorithm isn't just passing all the Malaises and Rosebloom mandrakes at you. Here's just some of the commons (Exalted: when the unit dies, you play a weapon with the dead unit's stats and battleskills on another unit you control):

 

[voOsh]

The main problem I have with Expedition is that it doesn't feel like there is much player agency. Because of the picks being given in groups of 3 you are making fewer choices than draft modes in other games.

 

[TheYanger]

So, Eternal's solution is better than MtG Arena, altho not as good as paper/MtGO pod drafts, obviously.

Arena went for "bots" to make it so drafting is always available. Eternal went for "your packs get uploaded to server, no wheeling". So signal reading is more difficult because you can't get signals from a full "pod", just the people whose packs already got uploaded and got passed on to you.

So you lose wheeling and some signaling, but you also don't have to deal with Eldraine Secretkeeper meta, because actual people made those picks and they aren't simply gone into the ether.

Heck, there is a proper mill deck in current Eternal draft format. It's just that it takes some skill and/or luck to pull off because the algorithm isn't just passing all the Malaises and Rosebloom mandrakes at you. Here's just some of the commons (Exalted: when the unit dies, you play a weapon with the dead unit's stats and battleskills on another unit you control):

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My question for this then - Are you getting packs from the same players? If not it's still a far cry from actual drafting. I don't claim to have a great solution beyond ACTUALLY forcing you to draft with other humans in a queue, but there's a big difference from 'I'm picking from cards that other people didn't pick' and 'I'm picking from cards that the same GROUP of people are picking from' in terms of deck building.

like, in magic terms, imagine if I drafted each descending pick from a group of people that are different each time, and thus all drafting different decks, it leaves a much less clear path towards a build for me. But, if it's just a time based "Hey, you're getting the first pack from X, the second from Y then X, third from Z then Y then X" then that still works, even if the packs were sitting in limbo for an hour before I saw them. As opposed to "Drafted pack from person X, next pack was picked clean by person Y and Z, third pack by A B and C". I hope that made sense in terms of how different those two outcomes are.

Don't get me wrong, the bots fucking SUCK for some specific reasons you noted, but they do also at least react to the cards in the packs and thus you are shaping a draft vaguely like in real life, the real issue is when the bots undervalue good cards and make it easy to pick the packs clean of secret keepers and didn't say pleases and run away togethers.

 

[Nordicus]

My question for this then - Are you getting packs from the same players? If not it's still a far cry from actual drafting. I don't claim to have a great solution beyond ACTUALLY forcing you to draft with other humans in a queue, but there's a big difference from 'I'm picking from cards that other people didn't pick' and 'I'm picking from cards that the same GROUP of people are picking from' in terms of deck building.

like, in magic terms, imagine if I drafted each descending pick from a group of people that are different each time, and thus all drafting different decks, it leaves a much less clear path towards a build for me. But, if it's just a time based "Hey, you're getting the first pack from X, the second from Y then X, third from Z then Y then X" then that still works, even if the packs were sitting in limbo for an hour before I saw them. As opposed to "Drafted pack from person X, next pack was picked clean by person Y and Z, third pack by A B and C". I hope that made sense in terms of how different those two outcomes are.

Don't get me wrong, the bots fucking SUCK for some specific reasons you noted, but they do also at least react to the cards in the packs and thus you are shaping a draft vaguely like in real life, the real issue is when the bots undervalue good cards and make it easy to pick the packs clean of secret keepers and didn't say pleases and run away togethers.

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You draft 4 packs twelve cards for a 45-card deck, in order Latest set pack - Curated pack - Curated pack - Latest set pack, and draft direction is Group A - Group B - Group B - Group A

 

[TheYanger]

You draft 4 packs twelve cards for a 45-card deck, in order Latest set pack - Curated pack - Curated pack - Latest set pack, and draft direction is Group A - Group B - Group B - Group A

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Right but I'm saying if the people you're drafting FROM aren't consistent, it still hurts the process.

 

[Nordicus]

Right but I'm saying if the people you're drafting FROM aren't consistent, it still hurts the process.

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You are drafting from consistent queues

My packs 1&4 come from Person A, and Packs 2&3 come from Person B, and this rule is ironclad, therefore Person A's packs 1&4 must also come from same person X, while Person B's packs 2&3 must also come from person Y.

I should have probably phrased group as queue. Does that make more sense?

 

[Sande]

It seems that swapping 2 blocking units removes them from combat. That must be a bug right? Nothing about the combat system indicates that it should work like that.

 

[TheYanger]

You are drafting from consistent queues

My packs 1&4 come from Person A, and Packs 2&3 come from Person B, and this rule is ironclad, therefore Person A's packs 1&4 must also come from same person X, while Person B's packs 2&3 must also come from person Y.

I should have probably phrased group as queue. Does that make more sense?

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Ok perfect, that's what I wanted to know. That's handled well then :) So no wheeling, but otherwise 100% accurate

 

[jon bones]

just had an absolute nailbiter of a game - down to my last HP

the opportunity of clever moments is so high , and players working towards different quests in the same match make each game a treat

 

[Deleted member 52442]

Thought i was pretty decent at the game but got gobstomped in expeditions in two full runs/four trials. got a lot to learn

 

[Lil Peanut Brotha]

I just played a draft game earlier today where I was winning by a mile, but wasn't quite aggressive enough and it went into late game...I went from winning to suddenly facing the Brightsteel banner 9/9 bro who shields his whole team, on play/attack. (screaming internally)

But then somehow I managed to perfectly play my hand of buffs defensively, take one big hit I could survive, then turn around and use challenger+buffs just enough that I could take out his Brightsteel and wipe most of his crew and sneak the win! Close games like these are my favorites by far (helps when I come out on top though of course, haha)

Now I just need to do this 4 more times to get a double 7 win run!

Thanks for sharing your thoughts about everything, it's great seeing what people are liking (and not!)

 

[SubvertedTrope]

Played this all day and I think that it's a pretty good card game. A lot of thought went into it, all the ingredients are there and they made them work.

I was actually kind of impressed I couldn't find much wrong with it, except for some minor timing issues but that may just be me.

Anyway, the game is fun and balance isn't a disaster which is more than I can say for every other ccg so thumbs up from me.

Katarina >>> everyone.

 

[Nordicus]

It seems that swapping 2 blocking units removes them from combat. That must be a bug right? Nothing about the combat system indicates that it should work like that.

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I'm guessing you played Stand United? Did you play the card while assigning blockers? Maybe putting one small blocker in front of Fearsome?

Because casting fast/burst spells while assigning your blockers is super weirdly handled in this game.

 

[Hybris]

It seems that swapping 2 blocking units removes them from combat. That must be a bug right? Nothing about the combat system indicates that it should work like that.

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Are you talking about stand united? It's a burst spell, so you can still move them around after you cast it if you havent confirmed your blockers yet. If you confirm blockers, your opponent plays a fast/burst spell, then you use stand united, it works. It's just a bit clunky when you use it before blockers are confirmed because it puts them both on your bench.

 

[Sande]

Are you talking about stand united? It's a burst spell, so you can still move them around after you cast it if you havent confirmed your blockers yet. If you confirm blockers, your opponent plays a fast/burst spell, then you use stand united, it works. It's just a bit clunky when you use it before blockers are confirmed because it puts them both on your bench.

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Oh right, it's probably the pre-combat weirdness. It happened to me in the last preview event so I don't remember exactly how it went down and now it happened to an opponent. I saw them placing the blockers, having them bounced and my units immediately hitting for lethal so I just assumed it was already during combat. But I guess the opponent immediately clicked next after playing Stand United assuming the blockers would stay.

 

[Deleted member 52442]

i assume all cards will be unlocked some time today like last play test

 

[jon bones]

Trying to expand Yasuo deck to include Katarina as well. I need to figure out how best to play her, because I outplayed myself BIG.

It's cool how champions kind of break the rules of the game... Fiora's win condition, Kat's ability to attack while on Defense, etc.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts about everything, it's great seeing what people are liking (and not!)

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You guys are doing great, I think you have a legit hit on your hands.

 

[ZeroX]

I've only played like two hours so my thoughts may change but I agree what Swim said. The game found a really good balance on offense/defense. You're always There's a lot of interesting dyanamics/interactions and satisfying combos. It's a deceptively simple game that actually has a lot of decision making and small choices that can be really important. Sequencing matters. Attack order matters. Passing/baiting is legit in a way that most digital card games never really encourage, especially thanks to spell mana.

My main thing is that I've never loved games that lean too heavily into the stack/counter play. Never liked it in Magic, and still don't here. So far it's not an all-encompassing part of the game, but things definitely slow down when people start dropping combos and you're stuck going pass pass pass but it isn't happening every match. Hopefully future expansions don't encourage that kind of play, which can happen. Things start simple, it's a mess a few years later. That and I'd love them to tweak expeditions to be more deck building and adapting on the fly and less constructed-lite.

Oh and performance seems to be flawless? Artifact for how plain it was made my PC chug, even overheated my laptop (how???), but this game is perfect. Fans don't even kick in. Presumably it was developed with mobile performance in mind.

Trying to expand Yasuo deck to include Katarina as well. I need to figure out how best to play her, because I outplayed myself BIG.

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hit me with that decklist

 

[jon bones]

when closed beta hits, we will all need to share riot names.

I've only played like two hours so my thoughts may change but I agree what Swim said. The game found a really good balance on offense/defense. You're always There's a lot of interesting dyanamics/interactions and satisfying combos. It's a deceptively simple game that actually has a lot of decision making and small choices that can be really important. Sequencing matters. Attack order matters. Passing/baiting is legit in a way that most digital card games never really encourage, especially thanks to spell mana.

My main thing is that I've never loved games that lean too heavily into the stack/counter play. Never liked it in Magic, and still don't here. So far it's not an all-encompassing part of the game, but things definitely slow down when people start dropping combos and you're stuck going pass pass pass but it isn't happening every match. Hopefully future expansions don't encourage that kind of play, which can happen. Things start simple, it's a mess a few years later. That and I'd love them to tweak expeditions to be more deck building and adapting on the fly and less constructed-lite.

Oh and performance seems to be flawless? Artifact for how plain it was made my PC chug, even overheated my laptop (how???), but this game is perfect. Fans don't even kick in. Presumably it was developed with mobile performance in mind.


hit me with that decklist

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1- i agree with how good decision making feels in this game. playing jinx/draven discard is a constant stream of choosing what to discard, what bursts/fasts to play, when to pass. love it.

2- https://lor.mobalytics.gg/decks/bmkvmul2vijk9j7crj70

 

[Papercuts]

I got into this at the very end of the last cycle so this has been better to actually get into it. Like it a lot so far.

I had a really funny sequence with Katarina that I rolled with and was surprised it worked, though it makes sense with the text. Played her after she leveled up and used her to block, which made her recall. Since she sets the attack just by being played my units could all attack after, then I was able to play her again and have everyone attack another time.

Like, it makes sense that it works like this but I guess I was surprised to see that the units can all theoretically keep attacking multiple times within one "turn". She seems like a really fun card to use because of that.

Overwhelm on barrier is the only thing I've seen that seems funky. Overwhelm does excess damage to the nexus, but will overdamage and still do that through a barrier even though I visualize barrier as soaking in essentially infinite single hit damage. I guess it's actually done so the barrier is only hitting up to the unit's HP and the excess still exists?

 

[MrH]

How P2W is this compared to Hearthstone?

 

[ZeroX]

How P2W is this compared to Hearthstone?

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They're basically giving you every card at the moment, we won't know for sure until it actually releases. That said, currently it's based around buying what you want (with spend limits) and not rolling packs, which as an Artifact guy I like.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2019-10-18-riot-games-legends-of-runeterra-interview

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/artic...will-bring-true-free-to-play-to-the-ccg-space

That said if it's like most card games, the sooner you start, the less P2W it is.

 

[jon bones]

How P2W is this compared to Hearthstone?

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there are hard limits on how much you can spend every week, which is meant to slow down whales so everyone collects at a similar rate

foils, pets, playmats are where want to earn their money - similar to cosmetics in league

you can learn about progression below. there is only 1 "lootbox" in the game and you cannot buy it. it is a vault that fills up only as you play through the week, then on Sunday it's Vault Day and everyone opens their vault and gets a bunch of cards and resources.

https://playruneterra.com/en-us/news/progression-by-the-numbers

 

[MrH]

there are hard limits on how much you can spend every week, which is meant to slow down whales so everyone collects at a similar rate

foils, pets, playmats are where want to earn their money - similar to cosmetics in league

you can learn about progression below. there is only 1 "lootbox" in the game and you cannot buy it. it is a vault that fills up only as you play through the week, then on Sunday it's Vault Day and everyone opens their vault and gets a bunch of cards and resources.

https://playruneterra.com/en-us/news/progression-by-the-numbers

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Sounds good, I've just put my name in the hat, hopefully, I'll get access soon.

 

[TheYanger]

Yeah IDK, finished another expedition run. I think the whole format just needs to be rethought. It serves no purpose, it feels like 'slightly worse constructed' instead of a legitimate drafting mode. HS arena, for all its faults, at least feels nothing like constructed standard (even if it's still a bad draft mode). The synergy level of decks is WAY too high for relatively little effort in this, and while it's not going tog et you a top tier standard deck, it's getting you certainly right below it, which makes games play out too much like I'm just clicking the other play button instead.

What is the purpose of a drafting mode if not to offer a different experience for players that prefer it?

 

[brjuntinaar]

Eh I'm not sure where I should put my feedback for this game so I will drop it here. I've played alot of card games over the years, so maybe I've just hit my limit, but overall, after only a few days of playing the game, I think I'm done. The gameplay is very high quality, the rewards system seems great, but something seems to be missing, because I'm just not feeling it. I'd really like it if there was a more robust pve mode, but that doesn't even seem to be on the docket. So I guess I will just watch this game and see how things develop. I really think that this is one of the most high quality ccgs I've ever played, but something just seems to be missing, perhaps on my end.

 

[jon bones]

WHAT'S MY NAME???

 

[Lyng]

So I went back to Hearthstone today after extensive Runeterra play this weekend and man its not even close. LoR takes a massive dump all over Hearthstone in every single aspect. The mana system is better, its more balanced already, the turn structure is leagues above, the monetization is much better, spells work more interestingly. There is actual player interaction on each turn!

 

[Lyng]

Yeah IDK, finished another expedition run. I think the whole format just needs to be rethought. It serves no purpose, it feels like 'slightly worse constructed' instead of a legitimate drafting mode. HS arena, for all its faults, at least feels nothing like constructed standard (even if it's still a bad draft mode). The synergy level of decks is WAY too high for relatively little effort in this, and while it's not going tog et you a top tier standard deck, it's getting you certainly right below it, which makes games play out too much like I'm just clicking the other play button instead.

What is the purpose of a drafting mode if not to offer a different experience for players that prefer it?

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Yeah the only digital card game that truly got draft right is Magic Online.

 

[Hybris]

Yeah IDK, finished another expedition run. I think the whole format just needs to be rethought. It serves no purpose, it feels like 'slightly worse constructed' instead of a legitimate drafting mode. HS arena, for all its faults, at least feels nothing like constructed standard (even if it's still a bad draft mode). The synergy level of decks is WAY too high for relatively little effort in this, and while it's not going tog et you a top tier standard deck, it's getting you certainly right below it, which makes games play out too much like I'm just clicking the other play button instead.

What is the purpose of a drafting mode if not to offer a different experience for players that prefer it?

Click to shrink...

+1 on that take. It's exactly my feelings on expeditions.

 

[Papercuts]

Yeah, only did one expedition but I'm not really feeling it. Doesn't seem too hard to have a decent deck with the way the card pool works, when the appeal of a mode like this is trying to scrounge together something. Frostbite spam seems pretty high also.

 

[jon bones]

So I went back to Hearthstone today after extensive Runeterra play this weekend and man its not even close. LoR takes a massive dump all over Hearthstone in every single aspect. The mana system is better, its more balanced already, the turn structure is leagues above, the monetization is much better, spells work more interestingly. There is actual player interaction on each turn!

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I can't go back to HS, MtGA, Gwent or Artifact after this.

The wait from Wednesday to Closed Beta is going to be so hard.

 

[Mobyduck]

The funniest thing was watching Day9 try this the other day, and he getting constantly confused about why one of the cards in the game is just Draven's grin, and why it showed a mustache in the animation.

 

[Sande]

I'll defend expeditions on that "less powerful and net-deck abundant standard" has some merit. But if I had to choose between it and actual draft, I'd pick draft in a heartbeat.

 

[jon bones]

I'll defend expeditions on that "less powerful and net-deck abundant standard" has some merit. But if I had to choose between it and actual draft, I'd pick draft in a heartbeat.

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The more I play it, the more I enjoy it.

It offers a good chance to play fun, synergistic non-meta decks that feel like they are slowly getting more powerful. The sense of progression you get swapping out cards and adding new sets of 3 is very satisfying.

I always did prefer sealed to draft, and this feels like it is approaching that.

 

[TheYanger]

The more I play it, the more I enjoy it.

It offers a good chance to play fun, synergistic non-meta decks that feel like they are slowly getting more powerful. The sense of progression you get swapping out cards and adding new sets of 3 is very satisfying.

I always did prefer sealed to draft, and this feels like it is approaching that.

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How is it remotely like sealed? In sealed you're even LESS able to build a synergistic deck than in Draft. In this mode I'll fight a deck with like 15 ways to frostbite my dudes, as I'm playing a deck with 20 stuns and synergies.

Sealed modes usually revolve around specific bombs and pure RNG, it's why draft has become prominent while sealed is a 'fun but not repeatable' experience in general. Like, you cannot make a sealed 'control' deck for instance in most games, you might be making a slower end of midrange game with a few control cards, but that's not the same thing. Just like you can't generally make a truly aggressive deck. Limited formats (draft and sealed both) allow decks to breathe by not letting the opponent build a deck that can be smothering. This doesn't do that.

 

[TheYanger]

Additional minor feedback:

Why is this a thing. It sat here waiting for this dude to run out the clock. they ALSO did it on the previous attack, 0 cards in hand nothing to actually possibly do. I had already committed blocks so they couldn't pull bakc or anything. So why? People take long enough when they do have things to play, don't give them the chance to be toxic losers when they don't (It wasted about a full minute between the two stalls once they realized I'd won).

 

[Nordicus]

I'll defend expeditions on that "less powerful and net-deck abundant standard" has some merit. But if I had to choose between it and actual draft, I'd pick draft in a heartbeat.

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Right, it does have some merit with that angle, but it hits another massive obstacle when that angle is used.

Expedition has the highest cost for a F2P constructed player that I've probably ever seen in a CCG draft mode.

In most games, you pay resources equivalent of 1.5-5 random packs for entry, that's basically nothing in terms of deck-building progression, and in keeper draft games you may end up with more value than the packs through rare-drafting even before you play your first game. So you're actually down 1-2 packs generally in the end in worst case scenario.

LoR Expeditions want you to sacrifice 1 Champion or 2.67 Epics of choice for entry. This is a significant cost, and the floor of getting a random champion, while technically even, in reality means you lost 100% of your entry fee, 100% of your next constructed champion of choice, if you were not planning on using the champion.

So Expedition offers a Standard-adjacent game mode, while crippling your Standard deck construction unless you are lucky with the random card rewards, or make it to 7 wins. If Expedition was truly different, you could argue the high shard cost still has some merit.

 

[Prototype Viktor]

as a fake entitled person who played League during it's beta i'm shocked shocked! i'm not in this one ;p

 

[Heraldic]

Cool. Just signed up. Waiting for a chance to play. I've enjoyed hearthstone and arena, to a lesser extent. Looks interesting.

 

[Hybris]

More tweaks to the vlad/braum list. I was having a lot of issues with elusive and some of the noxian face decks, so I added some death lotuses. Actually this card is quite versitile as it can give you a major burst of damage since it's a similar effect to Vlad/Tarkaz, but it also allows you to attack as your first action whereas the other 2 may leave you in a situation where you have a play Vlad or Tarkaz and allow the opponent a chance to respond before your attack phase. Swapped out the unscarred 1 drops for 3x omen hawk. The unscarred just didnt have enough health to do anything and often they just get chumped out without accomplishing anything. Also dropped the culling strikes and added Noxian Guillotine since it combos well with omen hawk and death lotus. Things I didn't get a chance to try are the 4 mana spell that buffs two unit's hp by 3, and the 6 mana spell reckoning which kills all units with 4 or less power if you have a unit with 5 or more power.

CEBAKAIBBEGRMLJOA4AQGBIGDUQC6MRUAEBACAYWDYAA

https://lor.mobalytics.gg/decks/bn7kaqkghmkrlklo54jg

Additional minor feedback:
Why is this a thing. It sat here waiting for this dude to run out the clock. they ALSO did it on the previous attack, 0 cards in hand nothing to actually possibly do. I had already committed blocks so they couldn't pull bakc or anything. So why? People take long enough when they do have things to play, don't give them the chance to be toxic losers when they don't (It wasted about a full minute between the two stalls once they realized I'd won).

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Add a system like artifact had where you have a time bank for the game. Each round adds time to your time bank. If you run out of time, you forfeit the game. That way you don't get full roped on every single action that you take by ragers.

 

[TheYanger]

Add a system like artifact had where you have a time bank for the game. Each round adds time to your time bank. If you run out of time, you forfeit the game. That way you don't get full roped on every single action that you take by ragers.

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the second rope was way shorter than the first one, so it's dynamically adjusting in some way. My complaint is, why should they even be allowed a rope in a situation where they literally do not have an action. No cards in hand, at all. It's basically asking people to be toxic.

 

[jon bones]

Wahhh, I miss this game already.

At least Closed Beta will run until launch! Going to suffer through another couple resets though, I'm sure.

More tweaks to the vlad/braum list. I was having a lot of issues with elusive and some of the noxian face decks, so I added some death lotuses. Actually this card is quite versitile as it can give you a major burst of damage since it's a similar effect to Vlad/Tarkaz, but it also allows you to attack as your first action whereas the other 2 may leave you in a situation where you have a play Vlad or Tarkaz and allow the opponent a chance to respond before your attack phase. Swapped out the unscarred 1 drops for 3x omen hawk. The unscarred just didnt have enough health to do anything and often they just get chumped out without accomplishing anything. Also dropped the culling strikes and added Noxian Guillotine since it combos well with omen hawk and death lotus. Things I didn't get a chance to try are the 4 mana spell that buffs two unit's hp by 3, and the 6 mana spell reckoning which kills all units with 4 or less power if you have a unit with 5 or more power.

CEBAKAIBBEGRMLJOA4AQGBIGDUQC6MRUAEBACAYWDYAA

https://lor.mobalytics.gg/decks/bn7kaqkghmkrlklo54jg

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Thanks for sharing! Will try it out next time.

 

[Euler]

https://www.polygon.com/2019/11/20/...t=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

Polygon seems to really enjoy this game as well.

 

[Deleted member 52442]

https://www.reddit.com/r/LegendsOfRuneterra/comments/emfzob/runeterra_on_sunday_leaked/

 

[jon bones]

https://www.reddit.com/r/LegendsOfRuneterra/comments/emfzob/runeterra_on_sunday_leaked/

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AHHHHH "THE BETA SEASON IS HERE"

can't wait!

 

[Deleted member 52442]

AHHHHH "THE BETA SEASON IS HERE"

can't wait!

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yeah been waiting so long for this

 

[Hybris]

Oh damn nice, I'm ready to jump back in. Can't wait to grind ranked

 

[mutantmagnet]

Well I hope I gain access for this beta.

 

[Won]

Would be nice. Gwent alone doesn't keep my card game needs fulfilled.